Recent Issues I've Seen With The Great Merchant Houses

[hatchets]

I am in complete support of Merchant Houses being more ruthless. I don't know so much about the north (as I did not like playing there the one time I tried it) but in Allanak, its all about putting the squeeze on folks who try and mess up your business. No I don't think indies should ever be told 'You can't do that cause blah blah blah" But equally someone should be putting obsticals in there way and that someone should be merchant houses. Start refusing to serve people who deal with indies, ect... Bribe, Cheat, Steal, Kill, stop with all the nicey niceness.

[Harmless]

I don't disagree that the indy hunters can handle the poaching idea (bloodbath), but I disagree that it will attract people to being on the Merchant House side of that conflict. I can't be sure obviously, but I just feel it wouldn't help, because the interest and excitement of the conflict will be balanced by Houses losing their precious hunters. Attrition rates will go up (though I agree that being PKed is far better than another carru death). In other words, I see this creating a temporary spark of bloody interest but eventually I think the House would realize the reward for this enforcement is minimal and we'll be back to where we started. Just my two sids.

[Ender]

I don't disagree that the indy hunters can handle the poaching idea (bloodbath), but I disagree that it will attract people to being on the Merchant House side of that conflict. I can't be sure obviously, but I just feel it wouldn't help, because the interest and excitement of the conflict will be balanced by Houses losing their precious hunters. Attrition rates will go up (though I agree that being PKed is far better than another carru death). In other words, I see this creating a temporary spark of bloody interest but eventually I think the House would realize the reward for this enforcement is minimal and we'll be back to where we started. Just my two cents.

I think you're seeing this idea just from the point of conflict and not the whole picture.  If the GMH's are empowered as law enforcement in the sands, fighting back against them would be breaking those laws, and a smart GMH hunter would report back to someone in the city that they were approaching someone suspected of poaching.  The poacher then would know if he slaughtered this person(s) over a scrab shell, they'd be an outlaw in the very place they were intending to sell the shell.

I'd picture actual conflict on the sands would be rare enough that the threat would always exist to make it exciting, but be rare enough that the sands wouldn't run red with blood.

[Barzalene]

As someone who has played family roles I acknowledge my part in the problem. I would suggest though that minions are clearer about what they'd like. I have had several rpts people didn't attend or they didn't seem to enjoy. So, guessing what people would like isn't working out as well as hoped. Give your leaders some broad hints. Help them help you

[James de Monet]

Once a player realizes the RP in a merchant house is unlikely to be enjoyable, that's one less possible recruit for them for a long time. As bad impressions and crappy times are had by more and more people, then the problem deepens.

I don't agree with this. I'm not sure if its intentional, but you're painting a picture that playing in a GMH is not fun for anyone, ever, and that is simply not the case.  As with all clans (or lack thereof) your experience is highly dependent on the people around you. 

Both times I have played in a GMH, there have been a core group of people who made stuff happen, who had constant conflict driving their shenanigans, they dragged other people into their messes, and it was awesome. When people say "GMH drama" they must mean something other than the kind I have experienced, because that drama to me is getting embroiled in Agent X's deep hatred of GMH B's Merchant Y, which leads to your char having to go looking for willing assassins, while trying to find out how to help Sergeant Z drum up an ungodly sum of coins to pay off the Templar he accidentally infuriated, all while some sharp that you're trying not to insult, but that is SO annoying is filling your head with demands for songbirds and weird crap you don't sell.  And then you all blow off that steam while getting hammered together.

Half the beauty of playing in a GMH vs a noble or militia clan is that there isn't an enforced separation between the leaders and the followers. They may get paid more than you, you may have to fill their cup at the company rager, but they can still associate with you, even "be friends" to a point. Anything with greater rank disparity, not so much.

[Narf]

It being bloody and messy and tough is generally the idea.  Conflict is actually fun.  Successful indies tend to be more experienced players, which is exactly why I think they could handle a situation in which it is more difficult to be successful as an indie.  Also putting them in an outlaw situation would possibly make being an outlaw a bit more common and maybe help with that problem of the world ganging up so much on the few people who do play outlaws.

My suggestion isn't to make being indy impossible, just to make it HARDER and to make joining a GMH more appealing.

I couldn't endorse this more. And honestly, I think that it's less about making life harder for the independent and more about giving something really fun for your clan members to do. Making life hard on the independent ICly is making fun for both the GMH /and/ the independent OOCly. It's a win/win.

Once you're doing this sort of thing people will join your house because they want in on the action.

[Narf]

I think you're seeing this idea just from the point of conflict and not the whole picture.  If the GMH's are empowered as law enforcement in the sands, fighting back against them would be breaking those laws, and a smart GMH hunter would report back to someone in the city that they were approaching someone suspected of poaching.  The poacher then would know if he slaughtered this person(s) over a scrab shell, they'd be an outlaw in the very place they were intending to sell the shell.

I'd picture actual conflict on the sands would be rare enough that the threat would always exist to make it exciting, but be rare enough that the sands wouldn't run red with blood.

And if the sands ran red with blood every once in a while, are we really going to complain /that/ much? Having a few flare ups every once in a while would be fun.

Poachers could be the new raiders, except yah know with a slightly less severe penalty than death associated.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I sort of agree with the OP but my idea of a solution is pretty simple: make sponsored roles and regular apps or special apps or whatever you need to be a family member or whatever, make them more appealing, give those poor gumball machines some space so they feel more like the relatively priviledged persons that they are. I'm pretty sure that most pc family members are virtually worthless or almost so to their house, so there will always be a gumball machine aspect to their lives in some sense. But they're still in the family, and should have lots of perks and time off, like specific days in the week off, which the House allows them to take, breakable only by the whims of nobility, templars, and soldiers in leadership positions.

My experiences with merchant houses as a non-family member have been sort of weird; as a crafter, sometimes I could basically take the House's food and go sit at the bar for the entirety of peak time, and not do coded work at all if I didn't OOCly feel like it, and other times I've been forced to do the Byn song and dance, except with one crafting skill, sitting alone or with one or two other people inside the compound for 90% of my playtime, left basically to either skill up or go afk. Because I played with the first experience, first, playing the second way was bewildering and I don't know why that existed as a pattern because it benefitted nothing. I remember one time being someone who wanted to join a merchant house as a crafter, was asked what they wanted to do in the house, told the truth, and was met with mild disbelief, probably due to that player's prior experiences with merchant house crafters.

I think a lot of the current empty roles in game that one would expect to be filled at least part of the time, are empty because of the story moving and shaking that's going on now, and by their nature many of these roles are immobile and have to be lucky to have the correct interests to be involved.

As for being selective about who you allow into a merchant house--- if they're someone who logically has a chance, I don't see why one wouldn't hire them and give them a shot, especially those individuals who have been labeled as potential trouble, but are obviously putting on the right face in order to get in. Trouble is conflict is story. Its fun as hell to be after the full-status crafter who had a wild moment of avarice and ran off with twenty-five cut diamonds. And to me, getting into merchant houses is story progression, character enrichment. Not letting someone in, who fits the right criteria (humans only for certain Kadian positions, etc.) who is obviously trying to get in, and then not letting them in, makes no sense to me. Merchant houses are exclusive, you're a lucky duck for getting in, don't forget that, but trying to make that point through the sacrifice of another pc's OOC desires rather than through the other twenty dirty vnpcs you saw in interviews this week doesn't make sense to me.

[Ender]

And if the sands ran red with blood every once in a while, are we really going to complain /that/ much? Having a few flare ups every once in a while would be fun.

Poachers could be the new raiders, except yah know with a slightly less severe penalty than death associated.

I sure wouldn't complain.

In the end this idea is just an example of how a plot that could be completely conceived and furthered ICly, not necessarily what I expect to happen.  I would love it though

It's up to players to really come up with ideas and further them to make their respective organizations more attractive to potential employees.

[KankWhisperer]

I think it is still just the matter of a broken economy code or lack thereof.

I personally think the shopkeepers should be save rooms. Sort of like the old diku also where you can sell maybe more than five items but the price has now gone to shit for a long long time.
So the independents will have to scramble more as it's now harder to get things not full up. People will see Merchant Houses as more attractive or even needed to survive. Limit salt foraging profits possibly a little more and definitely correct the obscene Red Storm crafting coin production.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I'd be fine with limiting the Red Storm crafter profits if the skimmers weren't so expensive for crying out loud. I could see all of them getting a 30% price cut and still being realistic, perhaps even 50-60% cut.

[Harmless]

I don't agree with this. I'm not sure if its intentional, but you're painting a picture that playing in a GMH is not fun for anyone, ever, and that is simply not the case.  As with all clans (or lack thereof) your experience is highly dependent on the people around you. 

I meant that if 10 people join a house this year and 4 have bad experiences, the next year those four are less likely to bother trying again and that it is additive over time, especially for experienced players. I definitely did not mean to imply what you said.

[Zephy]

I've played a crafter in a mercant house and an indy merchant. Both made the same in regards to coins. Playing an indy was just to see if I could do it and my IC concept fit that (and seeing how long I could make it). It had nothing to do with 'beating the game." I've had characters that barely made enough for food and water and some that had it easy. Just all a different playing experience.

Can't say I dislike or liked either way more or less. It was just different.

[Fujikoma]

Without posting too many details, there seem to be a lot of perks that go with being a part of an organization and maybe if they weren't as picky they'd have more members (I can think of one already), which would make things more interesting which would result in... More members.

[Clavis]

I find that I usually end up detesting GMH's, and other clans, the whole not leaving the cities for however long it takes you to get up a rank is the main reason.  I mostly play off peak times, with a few days on peak, yet still find for the most part I'm stuck inside endlessly beating a dummy that does nothing back, doesn't help get a bump on skills I generally don't worry all that much about. It's the none interectaction that gets me.
I for one would love to see a training dummy fight back, or at least do something in return for my mindlessly pummeling him for ig hours.

I feel it would also lessen my habits of oops forgot about training, or what ever. Though on the same path I had a leader that once h/she felt my pc was competent enough to survive a foray or three out in the wild, give me a test to make sure. once passed I was allowed to go out and even take a few other 'recruits' out on brief forays. I loved that leader, and that pc. Because it solved a couple problems at once, one I could slip away during the off-peak times, as well as take some of the like wise bored off-peakers out for a hunt, or 'training'.

The amount of trouble that pc stirred up for his GMH probably had some pulling out their hair, but it was fun even when getting chewed out by a superior for his less then polite way of telling people to shut it.

I feel that alot of the issues that I've read on here can be solved, by testing one or two promising recruits that are A. either around more, B. on around off peak time to pull in those pesky off-peakers, or C. give them some hope of being able to do something. If your bored and its your scheduled day off maybe try to find a little trouble to get into, stir up some form of negative/positive rp with someone.

again this is just my two sids.

[Dalmeth]

Conflict is actually fun.

Conflict with people who can actually fight is fun.

Conflict against a few, random interlopers is not fun.

Indies would need a bit more organization before stomping the peasants can actually be considered viable.

[Is Friday]

Organization and structure is an advantage of the GMHs.

[Quell]

Conflict is actually fun.

Conflict with people who can actually fight is fun.

Conflict against a few, random interlopers is not fun.

Indies would need a bit more organization before stomping the peasants can actually be considered viable.

Or they could hide their activities, which doesn't require them to be tough or organized and is probably a lot more realistic given the intent of the game world.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I have had a good time in at least one of GMH in the past few years.  It takes a few things..active competent leader(s) and a few active players.  I agree with Ender that Gmh should be using their influences to put pressures on anyone who isn't them.  That is something that could and should be done in game.  Something that could be accomplished by an active competent leader.

[BleakOne]

I'd be all for GMHs applying pressure on rival independants. Be it with 'hunting accidents' or political clout.

[sprucebark]

I've been in a GMH and had no problem pulling in recruits.
I've been a Byn Sergeant twice and had no problem pulling in recruits.
I've been many independents and had no problem getting people to follow me to the unknown.

Its the leader.

If you don't have players in your GMH, its probably you.

[Refugee]

Holy cow, has anyone ever had trouble getting recruits in the Byn?

[Narf]

Holy cow, has anyone ever had trouble getting recruits in the Byn?

There used to be a lot more competition for recruits by both the great houses and the nobility. Combine that with fewer players, and I'll bet the Byn had times where they struggled for recruits.

[X-D]

There has been.

[sprucebark]

Yes, a lot of players flock to the Byn, but I think sometimes people want to find overly drawn out complicated solutions to a simple problem.
Get a better leader or join the GMH yourself if its a huge deal.