Selection of Accent at Char-gen

[Fragmented]

I'd really like to see the ability to select your native accent (from a list of northern, southern, or tribal) available at character generation.
Perhaps you were born and raised southern, but decided to start in Tuluk to reflect having hitched a ride on a caravan to begin your
story. Perhaps you were always in Tuluk, but were raised by southern immigrants, and so have picked up their accent. I think this is a
relatively harmless thing that would make characters alot more customizable.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't think it should be an option for just everyone.

I'd be cool with adding "Southerner" and "Northerner" subguilds, though, that impart the respective accents.


EDIT: to elaborate a bit more, consider the cost of the in-game equivalent of having "hitched a ride on a caravan".  You must pay for:
*Proficient escort, likely a unit of Byn and you've no friends to help get a better group rate
*A mount, either bought or rented
*Possibly as much as a whole skin of water

While indeed there's not a lot of benefit to having a foreign accent, I feel like the cost of leaving your homeland should be reflected/impacted in your character generation "resources", so to speak.

Also, as indeed a foreign accent can be detrimental, I'd not want it to be something new players can choose lightly.

EDIT 2: And if you really want this now, I'd imagine it's not an especially difficult special application to get approved.

[RogueGunslinger]

I like this idea, and disagree with Moe pretty much entirely.

[Ender]

EDIT 2: And if you really want this now, I'd imagine it's not an especially difficult special application to get approved.

Or you could just make hitching the ride to another city part of the in game story.

[maxid]

I like this idea, and disagree with Moe pretty much entirely.

[Kismetic]

Nice idea.

[Harmless]

I personally like the hurdles one has to go through to get their desired accent in game. It forces you to make a difficult choice right at the beginning of character creation. It maybe requires cooperation from the beginning. These kinds of difficulties create plots right from the get-go, and form bonds and friendships. Importantly, they are also a golden opportunity for a raider to make an easy kill and get a shitload of rewards, which is an appropriate risk you need to take for this.

tldr: I agree with Moe entirely.

Too often I see challenges of this old-school game being requested for straight-up removal on code discussion. I feel this is yet another example of that, and it saddens me that so many people playing this game have lost their spine.

[Kismetic]

Too often I see challenges of this old-school game being requested for straight-up removal on code discussion. I feel this is yet another example of that, and it saddens me that so many people playing this game have lost their spine.

I don't think that's the case if you have written a background, let's say, that you grew up in Tuluk, but have spent the last five years working some angle in Red Storm ...  I mean, it's not incredibly important, and you could start in Storm, and "pretend" like you know the northern accent.  Or you could start in Tuluk, and "pretend" like you need to get back to Storm.  You can fudge a work around, or you can just have a choice in creation.  I predict the latter is less of a hassle.

The emboldened comment is needlessly inflammatory, and targets the majority of your peers.

[Kaineus]

I'm in Moe's camp, and not just because harmless is my brother.

A lot of people have backgrounds where they spend a good chunk of their lives in two or more regions. Once you let people pick one accent, players are going to whine about not having every single accent involved in their background. Snowflakiness begets more snowflakiness.

Making people have to work for their accents are [edit: is] totally valid. It also conforms to what you have to deal with in making a new character--you can't just start game as a perfect double-agent spy in the region you want to spy on. You have to work for it. If you want credibility (IE an appropriate accent) for more than one region in game, earn it. Play it out and get the accents. If your background leaves you dislocated, tough luck--you got a free ride there via your background, and now you want a free accent? In Zalanthas, very little should be handed out. If you think your character's circumstances qualify for special treatment, then special app like Moe says.

[Harmless]

Inflammatory as it may be, I felt the comment was necessary in my personal effort to discourage these kinds of ideas from even being suggested.

[Nyr]

You guys being turds on the GDB and in Teamspeak are exactly why we can't have nice things.  Self-edit yourselves or you will find yourselves on the receiving end of a ban. 

(edit to add:  meh, I'll edit it for you, but c'mon)

[Kismetic]

I think the ideas are born from a good place, often the player's desire to have more customization and have less limitation in backgrounds.  That doesn't make the world less difficult (carru are still carru, for instance), and if somebody skips that one spam-ride from Tuluk to Allanak, so what?

[hyzhenhok]

Two words: special application.

[Kassindra]

Two words: special application.

Was about to say; just special app.

[Kismetic]

Two words: special application.

Character Related    Special Application    3    12.94 days

I would count those words, but I'm lazy

[Malken]

There's a subguild that gives you tribal accent and Bendune. I bet in the past, some conversation sounding exactly like this one popped up.

"If you want tribal accent and Bendune, just special app it."

But now we have a subguild that gives you exactly that, so why not have one for northern and southern accent as well, if someone really wants it?

Could just add a couple of minor skills to each as well and make it two brand new subguilds. No big deal.

Northern subguild: Comes with northern accent, lumberjacking to journeyman max and some minor haggling skill.

Southern subguild: Comes with southern accent, stonecrafting to journeyman max and some minor listen skill.

[Nyr]

To comment on the actual idea, it's definitely something we are aware of:

There are a few minor "flavor" things that do not affect the gameworld and balance so much but do require staff intervention to set it up.  Among these:

changing starting accent to another accent
being from place X while starting in place Y
changing language proficiencies when half-elf (a background might affect this)

Until we have a solution in place that is automated, we would prefer that players use special applications for any roles in which they require those sorts of setups.  We may change policy on this and not require a special app, but for the most part, we've held to requiring special applications for any roles requiring staff intervention in order to set it up to the player's specifications.

There would have to be some additional consideration for balance that I didn't consider as carefully when I originally posted that, which is where the coded stuff and the overall concept may get bogged down.  I think most of it could be handled by CGP in that system.   Special applications could still handle the odd cases of stolen gypsy baby from Allanak that got spirited away to Tuluk and snuck into a Tuluki crib to replace a Tuluki baby that was then sent to the gypsy baby orphanarium.

[Kismetic]

CGP would be perfect!  Man, those are gonna cut down on so much staff work.  What're you guys gonna do then, sit around and smoke cigars? 

[Fragmented]

Never considered that I might be spineless for wanting to be able to select which accent my character speaks with, but alright.

As for making the transition in game, I certainly support this as an option. But if we can stretch our imaginations and imagine that
Joe Nobody starts the game with a waterskin, a shirt on his back, pants, boots, a backpack and.. oh yes, a thousand coins (roughly),
then I think we can stretch our imagination a bit to assume Joe spent some of his hard earned/won fortune on that initial ride.

I don't (personally) find it very attractive that if I want a tribal accent, I must pick a subguild with everything else it implies to have it,
or actually be a tribal character. My wife sounds disturbingly like a west texan, but has never lived in west texas. She just has three or
four friends she gabs with constantly who are from there. I appreciate the feedback from those who shared it, inflammatory or not. Was
just throwing out an idea that I personally would enjoy seeing brought into the game.

I will personally never feel like waiting possibly 30 days (or more) for a special application, just to be able to start in Luirs and not
-automatically- be called a Northie if I go down south. 10 years ago, this was easily handled by wishing up and asking for an accent
change. I can't think of one time in the three or four times I requested this I was ever denied (except to be told I'd need to ask again
when someone of sufficient power was around to do it). I understand the regime has changed hands, and things are handled differently.
I respect that, and I respect Nyr's decision. Thanks.

[Case]

Edit: Actually read Nyr's post!

[benegesseritwitch]

Fyi, this is very strange, but I just checked the "Accent" help file and it looks like it still has this old language in it even though I swear it had gotten changed to reflect current policies: http://armageddon.org/help/view.php?name=Accent

The text I'm seeing right now:

Accent                                                                  (Spoken)

  Accents are a manner of speaking characteristic of a region or city. On
Armageddon, when a character chooses a starting location in the Hall of
Kings, they are given the virtual accent of that location. This means when
they speak, people from other regions may be able to tell which region they
are from. Using region specific words and slang is still highly encouraged,
but this feature gives a coded indication of where someone is from.

  If you have in your background that you are from one region, but are
starting in another location, you may be able to get an staff member to
change your accent after entering the game by changing your objective to
indicate that you would like your accent changed, and what region to change
it to.



Notes:
  Knowing how to convincingly speak with a foreign accent (i.e. an accent
different from your character's regional accent) is a special ability which
can only be learned by listening to those who speak with the accent better
than your character.  Similar to learning a language, the learning curve is
extremely steep at first, so that one will require a very long time to
finally understand the basics of an accent.

Recognizing a foreign accent and being talented enough to convincingly
speak with that accent are completely different.

A thorough understanding of the fundamentals of a language are required
before one can make out the subtle nuances of an accent.

Edit: I got there by going to the main site, clicking on "help files" then clicking on "Accent" in the menu list.

[a french mans shirt]

Idea.

traveling trader subguild: northern accent, southern accent, haggle, value

allanaki refugee subguild: southern accent, direction sense (seriously though, without that how will they have gotten somewhere else?), stoneworking

I honestly believe that all city folk should have allundean and mirrukim and sirihish to have just branched, on chargen, in addition to the language(s) they already know fully. They've lived long enough at the minimum ages which are allowed to be able to recognize any of the three when spoken in strings of more then three words. And to make it impossible for people to try to speak languages until journeyman, they're impossible to understand until then anyway.

[Kismetic]

If you want to lump them into subguilds, just make Rebel now have northern accent, and toss southern accent into something appropriate, like whatever subguild represents dirt poor asshole.

[musashi]

like whatever subguild represents dirt poor asshole.

mercenary

[Malken]

like whatever subguild represents dirt poor asshole.

mercenary

I was going to say bard but yeah, that'd be northern. 

[Maso]

tldr: I agree with Moe entirely.

[Jenred]

I miss the old-fashioned answers of "No - if you want your character to be from the South but live in the North, do it IC".
As someone said, the idea of cross-worlding shouldn't be so Common that anyone and everyone can choose what and wish combinations of language and accent they use.

[MeTekillot]

@Jenred: Why?

[Jenred]

Because it encouraged players to play through the developmental portions of their character.

[Rhyden]

I agree with Jenred. If your character can't actually travel the world after creation, how would you expect them to do it virtually?

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm not understanding you guys at all. You're really harping on a point that just doesn't make sense to me. It should be up to the player what portions of their characters life they want to live through. Not the playerbase in general who decides what's okay for some ones background or not. What you're saying is that you won't add in accents before chargen because you think it takes away the chance that someone will make the trip themselves. SO FUCKING WHAT.

I understand the notion of not adding it in because it can be special apped, why burden staff. But for some weird ass notion that other players aren't going to be playing the bits of their own character that you yourself would like to play? Wow. Talk about limiting what others want to do for incredibly selfish reasons. If someone wants a background that suggests they travel the whole damn known world all the time then they can do that. Automating the process behind accents is simply making something you can already do a little bit less frustrating.

Were all of you so upset when staff used to just change your accent on a wish-up before, to better fit your background?

[Jenred]

I'm not understanding you guys at all. You're really harping on a point that just doesn't make sense to me. It should be up to the player what portions of their characters life they want to live through.

Since when? Players have made this argument before, and the staff response was - if you believe something happened to your character that should've been covered prior to actually playing the character to apply for it in a special application (in the case of added skills, skill increases, etc etc.) It shouldn't be any different with wanting to know a new accent that your character, based off the generalized backgrounds associated with your starting city, wouldn't know.

It is selfish, and actually kinda overly entitled, that players nowadays think that they should just be allowed to do whatever with their character because its their character, despite how rare it would actually be in the game. There is not alot of documentation to support the widespread "growing up in one region and entirely resettling in another" aspect that this type of idea would support.

The game has parameters, precedents, and standards.
"I want to play my warrior with sneak, because as a child he was raised by elves. Why should /you/ or anyone else care? its my character!"
The reason is because the interplay of stats, skills, perceptions, etc, all do more than just "affect your enjoyment".
A character knowing another accent, while seemingly trivial, has gameplay impacts.

[Malken]

I agree with Jenred. If your character can't actually travel the world after creation, how would you expect them to do it virtually?

Why is your 32 years old ranger fights worse than the 15 years old warrior? Because of X.

Why is it that your character used to travel back and forth from point X and Y but doesn't anymore? Because of Z.

People make up excuses as to why their character is the way they are now, as opposed to what their background would portray in reality.

[Jenred]

I agree with Jenred. If your character can't actually travel the world after creation, how would you expect them to do it virtually?

Why is your 32 years old ranger fights worse than the 15 years old warrior? Because of X.

Why is it that your character used to travel back and forth from point X and Y but doesn't anymore? Because of Z.

People make up excuses as to why their character is the way they are now, as opposed to what their background would portray in reality.

CGP is being added to cover for this. I'd see no issue in using it to affect starting languages.
The issue is that players are abuse prone.
If you were able to roll up a 32 year old ranger, skilled in the ways of the world, adept in all his expertises, the average player would. Why play a novice anything? Players that would choose to be weak are few and far between unfortunately.
Given the opportunity to start out new or maxed, most would chose maxed.
The game is a MUD and a role-playing game - not a MUSH where you just play out any concept you want. The game has code, and progression, and all that. There is some flexibility, if you want to play a character that has a background of skill and expertise, you can special app it.

[Rhyden]

I agree with Jenred. If your character can't actually travel the world after creation, how would you expect them to do it virtually?

Why is your 32 years old ranger fights worse than the 15 years old warrior? Because of X.

Why is it that your character used to travel back and forth from point X and Y but doesn't anymore? Because of Z.

People make up excuses as to why their character is the way they are now, as opposed to what their background would portray in reality.

For the same reasons I can't say my character has several polygamous relationships, murders several people, while making 10k every time I log out.

If your character can't codedly do something, why should I believe they can virtually do it?

And traveling the world alone, hiring the Byn, or someone else isn't really that difficult. Who knows it might even be fun.

[RogueGunslinger]

I agree with Jenred. If your character can't actually travel the world after creation, how would you expect them to do it virtually?

Why is your 32 years old ranger fights worse than the 15 years old warrior? Because of X.

Why is it that your character used to travel back and forth from point X and Y but doesn't anymore? Because of Z.

People make up excuses as to why their character is the way they are now, as opposed to what their background would portray in reality.

CGP is being added to cover for this. I'd see no issue in using it to affect starting languages.
The issue is that players are abuse prone.
If you were able to roll up a 32 year old ranger, skilled in the ways of the world, adept in all his expertises, the average player would. Why play a novice anything? Players that would choose to be weak are few and far between unfortunately.
Given the opportunity to start out new or maxed, most would chose maxed.
The game is a MUD and a role-playing game - not a MUSH where you just play out any concept you want. The game has code, and progression, and all that. There is some flexibility, if you want to play a character that has a background of skill and expertise, you can special app it.

So you're afraid of people abusing what exactly? We allow special apps instead of just letting them do what they want because of trust in the players. Do you really not trust the players to pick an accent that realistically portrays their background or something? This is what I don't get. You've made two different arguments. One was that players would be cheating themselves out of the experience of traveling the world, as a matter of "progression".The other is that players can't handle the choice of which accent they should get.

Saying it's something one can "special app" is saying you'd let everyone do it if they had enough trust. I'm wonder why you think people need trust to pick their own accent.

For the same reasons I can't say my character has several polygamous relationships, murders several people, while making 10k every time I log out.

If your character can't codedly do something, why should I believe they can virtually do it?

And traveling the world alone, hiring the Byn, or someone else isn't really that difficult. Who knows it might even be fun.

The difference between what's in your characters background and what they do in the time you're logged off is so vastly different I don't really understand why you're making the connection.

Your hang-up is why not just make the trip across the world so you can have the accent you want in the place you want,"it's not that difficuly".  I'm saying who cares how difficult it is, lets just let people play the type of character with the type of background that they want to play.

[Malken]

For the same reasons I can't say my character has several polygamous relationships, murders several people, while making 10k every time I log out.

Hmm? Pretty sure that if you want to say that your character has several polygamous relationships, Staff will happily allow you to say so, the same goes with having murdered several people in your background.

Like RogueGunslinger, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say/prove with those examples..

Not really going to spend much energy bothering to debate this idea, though, because I have a gut feeling that Staff will eventually allow this.

[Rhyden]

Like RogueGunslinger, I'm not really sure what you're trying to say/prove with those examples..

I was refuting your own examples with hypotheticals from the opposite extreme. It's really not that difficult to grasp.

And no I don't believe staff will allow you to be a mass murderer in your background.

This really isn't worth debating, I've simply offered possibilities as to why it hasn't been put in place.

Currently if you want accent A but want to live in city B you have a few options: 1) DIY 2) Spec. app 3) wish up and beg staff to transfer you.

If staff allow characters to change their accent at or before creation, great. I simply think you're missing out on in game potential plots if you do so. Honestly I really couldn't care less, just my 2 cents.

[Jenred]

So you're afraid of people abusing what exactly?

...

Saying it's something one can "special app" is saying you'd let everyone do it if they had enough trust. I'm wonder why you think people need trust to pick their own accent.

The character concept, that would allow for a character to be raised in a specific region, moved to another, yet totally indoctrinated into the language of their new-area is one that is not common enough to allow all players to do it. The abuse possible is being able to quickly pick up mulitiple accents by essentially being started off in a region that speaks the opposite accent. You are then able to essentially "fit in" in either region, since accents are one of the primary means of judging someone's starting location - something that factors predominantly into inter-city tension roleplay.

Then you have the outlying situations of tribals and rinthis... "I was a Northerner, raised in the rinth, but I stuck with the north accent" - bazaar stuff like that that should really just be run by staff and not something left freely up to players to do just because "its their character's background". Or a tribal that was washed away to the south, but doesn't want to take the nomad subguild, etc etc.

Further, even if this one specific thing has no real high abuse factor, its a slippery slope towards the things that people have already been joking about here. The slope of "its my background, why do you care" is one thing, but when the code starts catering to it, its another thing entirely.

[Harmless]

To add meat to the "slippery slope" argument, let's say choice of accent becomes its own selection in char creation.

Next, people will want to be able to pick which city's starting shop they want to use. I want to start in Nak, but I want the Tuluki starter shop.

Or, maybe they want to be sure to get the Tuluki tattoos, because that's where they were born, but then start in 'Nak because they were an early immigrant there for some reason, but grew up in Nak, and so have the southern accent, but want Nak starter clothes, so that they can reflect having lived most of their childhood there.

In the end, you just have so many possible situations that might lead to a request of "change character creation so that I can automatically get my snowflake app X please" again, and again, and again.

Just do the special app.

[Kismetic]

I don't think anyone is advocating having accents be an automatic and free selection at creation.  Nyr mentioned something about possibly adding it to CGP.  I like the idea of getting an accent for 1 CGP.  It's an expeditious method that doesn't burden staff workload, and it doesn't have much potential for actual abuse that has a net gain.  Jenred's example of a rinthi doesn't pan out, why would a rinthi ever leave the rinth (and be in the Bizarre, teehee)?

[Jenred]

I don't think anyone is advocating having accents be an automatic and free selection at creation.  Nyr mentioned something about possibly adding it to CGP.  I like the idea of getting an accent for 1 CGP.  It's an expeditious method that doesn't burden staff workload, and it doesn't have much potential for actual abuse that has a net gain.  Jenred's example of a rinthi doesn't pan out, why would a rinthi ever leave the rinth (and be in the Bizarre, teehee)?

From the first line of this topic:

I'd really like to see the ability to select your native accent (from a list of northern, southern, or tribal) available at character generation.

[Kismetic]

Beyond the first few posts, most people have been considering the notion of either CGP or a subguild choice.  Both come at a cost.

[musashi]

I think I'm in the camp of "No we don't need it." but not because of any "it would cause abuse" line of reasoning.

I just believe that in general, travel between the two cities is suppose to be hazardous and rare for the bulk of the world's population. Most people who are born in Allanak, live, suffer, and die in Allanak. Even those who leave the walls to greb rarely stray further than Vrun Driath because of the wasteland that surrounds them.

So bearing that in mind ... I feel like the frequency of foreign born people in either city state or their sibling outposts, should be kind of rare. Not unheard of, but rare. So in that context, I think special app'ing for it is fine.

[Kismetic]

That line of thinking doesn't change the fact that people traverse from one city-state to the other in fifteen minutes.  How many times a day does that happen, do you think?  It's commonly understood that our characters are not most people.  You shouldn't feel obligated to play vNPC #325, and I doubt many of you do.

[musashi]

Up until you took over that life and made them a PC, they were in fact, vNPC #325. And thy likely lived an existence in accordance with the game setting instead of in spite of it. So I think it's still a fair point. When talking about chargen, not IG play after approval.

If you want their background to be exceptional and have them start out as out of the ordinary, right out the box, we already have processes in place for staff to consider and grant/deny that.

[Kismetic]

We already have a subguild with the tribal accent for this sort of "exceptional" background.  And CGP, I presume, was a concept created not only to give players more options, but staff a lighter load by automating the most common of special app requests.  So, really, there's no good, logical reason to confuse the issue, unless merely to be a hardass.

[musashi]

Comparing nomads to people who grew up in the cities is apples and oranges. That option at character creation is there so that people can elect to play a well-defined part of the game's documentation. Immigrants from one city to another as a normal commonly seen occurrence is not a part of the games documentation. For what it's worth though, if this were made into something you had to pay creation points in order to get I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

[RogueGunslinger]

I also don't think a single person would waste a CGP when they can just walk 50 rooms to get across the known to the same effect.

[Kismetic]

re:  musashi

I, too, am more a proponent of buying accents at 1 CGP.  Costly, if you consider that CGP would only replenish once a month, and most of you seem to die 2-3 times in that span.  And considering the other options available for CGP, it would be both automated (helping reduce staff work) and less common than other exceptional background options (extended subguilds, magick subguilds, and skill boosts).

[AmandaGreathouse]

Comparing nomads to people who grew up in the cities is apples and oranges. That option at character creation is there so that people can elect to play a well-defined part of the game's documentation. Immigrants from one city to another as a normal commonly seen occurrence is not a part of the games documentation. For what it's worth though, if this were made into something you had to pay creation points in order to get I wouldn't have too much of a problem with it.

While (today, at least), I am neither for or against the idea, I have to point out that there is a group of Allanaki refugees that (at least used to) exist in Tuluk, in the game world. So I would think it's not terribly exceptional, even if it is a bit rare. I think it would be rarer though to be a Tuluki that starts in Allanak unless you have X or Y reasons for it already predefined.

[Delirium]

Immigrants from one city to another as a normal commonly seen occurrence is not a part of the games documentation.

Little quibble, but though the documentation hasn't been updated to reflect it, the IC reality is that there were/are lots of southern immigrants in Tuluk.

Not so much the other way around, though, unless it's a family of volcano-loving anorexics.

[musashi]

Yes I am aware of those immigrants, but they were the result of one specific catastrophic in game event which is an exception to the rule basically by definition, so I think the point stands.

If you wanted to apply as a refugee who starts in the north because they were a part of that one particular circumstance (during the time it was happening ... as has been pointed out those refugees are no longer there as coded additions to the city) then I'm sure you would have been approved to do so by the staff.

Little edit to add: It's worth noting that the actual number of Allanaki refugees in Tuluk, even after that event, is incredibly small in comparison to the population of either city state. Hence I go back to my first point, of immigrants from a different city state being a big rarity doc wise.

[Lizzie]

The groups of immigrants in Tuluk documented in the official docs are either very old, or long-dead (depending on the particular wave of immigration you're talking about).

So if you wanted to pick a really old guy who is living in Tuluk but is a natural-born Allanak citizen, then that might make sense. On the other hand, they would've been living in Tuluk so long, since they were kids, that their southern accent might be completely gone by now.

But people who are living in Tuluk, who were born there, but their parents were immigrants - are not Nakkis with Tuluk accents. They're Tulukis.

Many of these NPCs are old enough that they really shouldn't even exist anymore. I've seen a "young girl" who was "ancient" and bugged it - not sure if it's still there. But don't compare the NPCs with the official docs and expect the result to make any sense. The staff shouldn't have to replace NPCs every time they turn a certain age. Just assume they're the offspring of the NPC who was there for the last 80 game-years, and they look alike. Sort of like you know that Thexi can't possibly really be Thexi - he'd be a few hundred years old. Instead, it's his great-grandson, who is also named Thexi, after his great-grandpa. And regardless of where the original Thexi came from - the present Thexi is a Nakki.

The same goes for the mutants on the Tuluk streets, the little kids who play in the Warrens, the shopkeepers in Freil's Rest. I just always assume they're related to the originals, and were given the same names, but are not really the originals, because their age would require that they be dead. And since they're not, they can't possibly really be that old, and can't possibly be the originals.

[Nyr]

Uhh...

The groups of immigrants in Tuluk documented in the official docs are either very old, or long-dead (depending on the particular wave of immigration you're talking about).

Where in the docs is this located exactly?

But people who are living in Tuluk, who were born there, but their parents were immigrants - are not Nakkis with Tuluk accents. They're Tulukis.

I'm pretty sure citizenship is a little more complicated than that. 

(i.e., you can't move to a city-state, have a babby, and expect it to be a citizen of that city-state)

[musashi]

Bet you could in Allanak. But really, who wants to jump their fence?