Static electricty in Zalanthas?

[greasygemo]

In relation to the static electricty question posed by MeTekillot. Behold. Science.

The Triboelectric Series

The process of electron transfer as a result of two objects coming into contact with each other and then separating is known as 'triboelectric charging'. The process of triboelectric charging results in one object gaining electrons on its surface, and therefore becoming negatively charged, and another object losing electrons from its surface, and therefore becoming positively charged.

If a material is more apt to give up electrons when in contact with another material, it is more positive in the triboelectric series. If a material is more apt to "capture" electrons when in contact with another material, it is more negative in the triboelectric series.

The farther the separation in the table, the greater the effect.

Air
Human Hands, Skin
Asbestos
Rabbit Fur
Glass
Human Hair
Mica
Nylon
Wool
Lead
Cat Fur
Silk
Aluminum
Paper
Cotton
Steel
Wood
Lucite
Sealing Wax
Amber
Hard Rubber
Mylar
Nickel
Copper
Silver
Brass
Synthetic Rubber
Gold, Platinum
Sulfur
Acetate, Rayon Polyester
Celluloid Polystyrene
Silicon

Now, if you examine the above, you will notice that there are more than a few combinations of positive and negative materials which might result in a Triboelectric (static) charge build up. Though most of the combinations are weak, being that Zalanthas has few really negative insulators, like metals and rubber...

Silicon however, is interesting, because the most common constituent of sand in inland continental settings and non-tropical coastal settings is silica (silicon dioxide, or SiO2), usually in the form of quartz.

Therefore, hypothetically, silica sand + wind friction + the air/your hair/your skin/the wool of your ox could facilitate a "charge" over time until sufficient levels are reached to create this discharge when a charged object (like your hand) comes into contact with another conductor (your poor unfortunate ox)

It should also be noted that while dry air amplifies this effect as it creates a better environment for static charge to build, cotton is considered neutral and can reduce the building of a charge, also dampness or humidity, like that of sweat, also lowers the effect.

Thoughts?

[Wug]

I'm pretty sure that's only for elemental silicon. Silicon compounds have completely different properties.

[Norcal]

Quote from Wug:

Might be worth opening a thread and researching though. What did desert societies historically think about static electricity?

Thats a cool question and I will ask some folks here.   I know that sand storms can cause electrical storms as well, but often at the start of the rainy season when there is moist air. Not all that common on Zalanthas. I once had to spend all night hunkered down out in the bush because of an electrical storm which was like a net, about 20 feet off the ground. It went on for hours. Cool show, but never seen anything like it since.

[musashi]

So that's why [CENSORED SUPER SEKRIT IC INFO!]

Well now it makes sense 

[Jenred]

Several quick google searches indicate that either A) there is no interest in this subject really. or B) there is no significant reason to believe static electricity played any type of significant role in primitive people's lives.

[greasygemo]

I recall reading the excellent book "The Worst Hard Time", about the 1930s Dust Bowl, by Timothy Egan.  To me, the most incredible part of the stories were the accounts of the massive amounts of static electricity.  Sparks would fly from windmills and barb wire fences.  People would drag metal chains from their cars so that the cars would remain grounded, lest enough static electricity build up that a sudden discharge to the ground would take place, shorting out a car's electrical system.

At the time, I couldn't conceive of a way that dust would be able to acquire such a strong electrical charge.  But it turns out there are plenty of observations of lightning in dust storms or sand storms.

I read this somewhere.

[Marauder Moe]

I'm going to go ahead and say that, regardless of the science/realism of it, you should not be emoting common static shocks. 

It's not going to enrich the world.  It's not going to impress people with your roleplay of super-mundane things.  What it will do, though, is give people OOC freak-outs about whether or not your character is a secret Elkran, which in many cases will become IC freak-outs.  What's worse is there's no way to resolve that situation other than semi-OOCly rebuking the freaked-out player for freaking out over a mundane-but-otherwise-unrepresented-in-the-game event.

[Norcal]

I'm going to go ahead and say that, regardless of the science/realism of it, you should not be emoting common static shocks.  

It's not going to enrich the world.  It's not going to impress people with your roleplay of super-mundane things.  What it will do, though, is give people OOC freak-outs about whether or not your character is a secret Elkran, which in many cases will become IC freak-outs.  What's worse is there's no way to resolve that situation other than semi-OOCly rebuking the freaked-out player for freaking out over a mundane-but-otherwise-unrepresented-in-the-game event.

Erm..OK. Think positive Moe. Was actually just intruiged by the idea of what desert people thought about it. Had not gotten to the point of RP.But still, if it is something that could exist, it would be great for background if someone ever did want to play an Elkran. That would enrich something. But this all could just be my OAD kicking in.

[Marauder Moe]

Carry on, then.

[HavokBlue]

A quick google of "ancient static electricity" reveals that as far back as ancient greece, they'd realized you can rub amber on cloth to create a charge that attracts bits of paper and whatnot. I think based on that, it's safe to say Zalanthans have probably encountered static electricity in one form or another. The greeks came up with some divine explanation for it though, so I'm kind of curious what Zalanthans would think about it.

The word "elektron" in Greek means amber, the yellow fossilized resin of evergreen trees, a "natural plastic material" already known to the ancient Greeks. It was known that when amber was rubbed with dry cloth--producing what now one would call static electricity--it could attract light objects, such as bits of paper.

William Gilbert, a physician who lived in London at the time of Queen Elizabeth I and Shakespeare, studied magnetic phenomena and demonstrated that the Earth itself was a huge magnet, by means of his "terrella" experiment. But he also studied the attraction produced when materials such as amber were rubbed, and named it the "electric" attraction. From that came the word "electricity" and all others derived from it.

[Malken]

Each time you feel static electricity, call in a Faithful Lady and accuse your neighbor of being a filthy 'giker.

Then take over his hut and his woman.

[RogueGunslinger]

Each time you feel static electricity, call in a Faithful Lady and accuse your neighbor of being a filthy 'giker.

Then take over his hut and his woman.

Malken understands this game.

[Sephiroto]

If Zalanthas has physics anything like Earth I would assume that static buildup would be commonplace for some people/creatures.  Humans, for instance, build up static and experience shocks some environments like Las Vegas (a desert) or indoors during winter because the air is so dry.  Zalanthas, being very dry, would also probably have static shocks between creatures with similar physiology as Earth humans. 

At any rate, the whys and hows of static buildup are based in science, which is a discipline which has no place in Armageddon background (except in a few cases).  I agree with Moe that role playing static shocks is probably a bad idea unless you're an Elkrosian or want to be confused as one (why would anyone want to do that?).

The simple fact of the matter is that there's no clear documentation of static electricity and a ton of other scientific phenomena on Zalanthas.  Making a world 100% realistic world within the realm of it's own fantasy simply takes too much time and some phenomena, like static, have to be written off as magic or uncommon.  I'm not saying that every phenomena has to be that way, but because I've never seen a person roleplaying static shocks in 12+ years of gameplay I believe it is safe to assume we should steer clear the notion of role playing it.

[Norcal]

In response to Wugs question, what do desert societies historically think about static electricity.

Niether of the two groups I work with have an original word for electricity. They use a borowed word, or simply use the same word as for fire. They do have words for lightning. So it seems that they did not associate static with lightning, and it was not important enough in their lives to give it a word. I still need to talk to some old folks though.

[Maso]

What are the borrowed words that they use?

[Norcal]

Courant is the word they use, and it could have been borrowed from French as France was the former colonial power or English (current), the language of the old colonial power next door. Usually though it's just called "fire" in their own languages and dialects.

[ditchhook]

If Zalanthas has physics anything like Earth I would assume that static buildup would be commonplace for some people/creatures.  Humans, for instance, build up static and experience shocks some environments like Las Vegas (a desert) or indoors during winter because the air is so dry.  Zalanthas, being very dry, would also probably have static shocks between creatures with similar physiology as Earth humans. 

These experiences would typically require good conductors (metals) or water repelling synthetics (like nylon). If you think about it. Almost all our experiences with significant, noticeable PERSONAL static-electric shocks involve close near contact with these materials. Since these items are so rare in our game world, this probably can be dismissed as a realistic issue we need to address outside very rare or exotic events.

Person to person shocks we experience come about because the individuals are differently charged. They become differently charged because they were last grounded (contacted with grounded metals) at different times, or 'charged up' at different rates. In general, there would be very much less experience with static electricity in an ancient environment than in our modern one with our increased exposure to modern materials like nylon and metals.

[Maso]

Quick look at this website seems to imply that there are plenty of Zalanthas-friendly materials that could cause static electricity...

http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/static_materials.htm

[Myhrrn]

I hypothesize that being in the mere presence of a HG-fart, much like being near a car while it is being filled with gasoline is very dangerous when static electricity is present. IMHO.

[ditchhook]

Quick look at this website seems to imply that there are plenty of Zalanthas-friendly materials that could cause static electricity...

http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/static_materials.htm

If you scroll down to the list of good and moderate combinations to create static charge, you'll see the only one that might apply to the gameworld is 'silk and glass' and even then, it warns the reader that silk will not retain charge for long.

I don't wish to contend that static electricity should be impossible in our game world. But I am saying it wouldn't be a common everyday experience. It would be an exotic event, or one developed by a dedicated investigator.

[Maso]

Would someone post Elkrosian attach be positively charged for a little? Because magick?

[Patuk]

Would someone post Elkrosian attach be positively charged for a little? Because magick?

If they want to RP it that way, yes.

[Iiyola]

Sand after being hit by lightning:

[Refugee]

That's....really cool....

[sebonner]

- Removed to revise.    Sorry, was half-asleep! -