Suggestion for new command "Pace"

[Evilone]

It would be great when riding a faster mount than those following you, to then be able to just type 'pace sunlon' when riding an inix for example, then your inix will keep speed with the sunlon and won't pull ahead.

This can be done by slowing movement commands and not spamming, but even then it can be frustrating as hell. Just an idea.

[Lizzie]

It would be great when riding a faster mount than those following you, to then be able to just type 'pace sunlon' when riding an inix for example, then your inix will keep speed with the sunlon and won't pull ahead.

This can be done by slowing movement commands and not spamming, but even then it can be frustrating as hell. Just an idea.

I really love this idea. Usually when I'm leading a group with slower mounts than mine, I'll go my usual pace, but I'll stop every 4-8 rooms and toss out an emote or have my character say something. This *usually* gives everyone's mounts a chance to catch up with the movement code. But not always.

[Barsook]

I dig this.

[Is Friday]

Or just stop spam walking Sarge.

[bcw81]

Or use the sneak command...

[Synthesis]

Or use the sneak command...

Sneak is still affected by movement speed.

[Dalmeth]

Or use the sneak command...

Sneak is still affected by movement speed.

More specifically, everyone else sneaks too.  So there is no net change in relative speed.

[Qzzrbl]

Or just stop spam walking Sarge.

[Marauder Moe]

Or just stop spam walking Sarge.

[Schrodingers Cat]

While not "the solution you were looking for", dropping some descriptive emotes relevant to the trip might at least help alleviate some of the frustration and also make the trip more enjoyable for others involved.

[BleakOne]

Going slow is more fun anyway.

[musashi]

I can see that (just go slower) not being an option when you're say, being chased by a pack of aggro mobs and you'd like for your unit to stay together and protect the slowest ridder rather than leave them in the dust though.

[RogueGunslinger]

I can see that (just go slower) not being an option when you're say, being chased by a pack of aggro mobs and you'd like for your unit to stay together and protect the slowest ridder rather than leave them in the dust though.

Make sure everyone has the same type of mount.


Edit: I guess I see the small case where this would be beneficial actually. Don't think it would really ever be used.

[Dalmeth]

We could always make the system even MORE complicated.

You know, change speed based on load, health, and mood.

Then you'd have to walk at an arbitrarily low speed just to get anywhere.

Welcome to real life, folks.  It's hard.

[bcw81]

We could always make the system even MORE complicated.

You know, change speed based on load, health, and mood.

Then you'd have to walk at an arbitrarily low speed just to get anywhere.

Welcome to real life, folks.  It's hard.

I would love speed to be dramatically effected by weight. Any inix carrying 4 large bags full of various animal parts should be slow.

[musashi]

I would like for playability to trump realism, please.

[Orin]

I would like for playability to trump realism, please.

Exactly.  If I wanted to play real life I would go outside.

[Patuk]

How exactly would weight affecting the ease of riding the game make things less playable?

[bcw81]

How exactly would weight affecting the ease of riding the game make things less playable?

Srsly. Playability is not a one way street. Just because you think it's playability reasons you should be able to carry ten dead gurth on your back, doesn't mean that you should for playability reasons. What about all the other hunters now unable to hunt carru because you killed them all, let alone sell the items from the ONE gurth they killed because you flooded the market with your playability.

[Lizzie]

Except none of that has anything to do with the suggestion of a new "pace" command.

As for making animals slower just because they're weighed down, I'm thinking no. That wouldn't be an improvement and would be a detriment. Reason being - not all animals are fast. And not everyone can afford the faster mounts. You'd be slowing down an already slow mount. At that point, it'd be faster to walk from point A to point B, and carry a tent to rest in. Which - if you can afford a tent, you can afford a faster mount.

The point of the "pace" suggestion is to intentionally, temporarily slow down the -lead- animal, WHEN that animal is faster than one of the -follower- animals. As it's already been mentioned, even when you include emotes in your travelling, it isn't always going to work, because sometimes the slowest animal in the group is still too slow to catch up with the faster animal's movement code. And sometimes, it is just too plain risky for the lead rider to stop and come up with something to type, then type it, at regular intervals. Sometimes it's less risky, to simply "pace" your steps, just slightly slower than normal.

[Patuk]

How exactly would weight affecting the ease of riding the game make things less playable?

Srsly. Playability is not a one way street. Just because you think it's playability reasons you should be able to carry ten dead gurth on your back, doesn't mean that you should for playability reasons. What about all the other hunters now unable to hunt carru because you killed them all, let alone sell the items from the ONE gurth they killed because you flooded the market with your playability.

You're not answering my question. Not in the slightest.

Except none of that has anything to do with the suggestion of a new "pace" command.

As for making animals slower just because they're weighed down, I'm thinking no. That wouldn't be an improvement and would be a detriment. Reason being - not all animals are fast. And not everyone can afford the faster mounts. You'd be slowing down an already slow mount. At that point, it'd be faster to walk from point A to point B, and carry a tent to rest in. Which - if you can afford a tent, you can afford a faster mount.

Slow mounts could be affected less by weight. I think an erdlu would be a lot more bothered by a barrel of water on its back than an inix would be.

[Rhyden]

Except none of that has anything to do with the suggestion of a new "pace" command.

Correct, but it's still brainstorming an idea for a solution to a hypothetical coded problem. Isn't that what this part of the GDB is for?

I like Patuk's idea. Weight probably should affect how quickly your mount can move, not only how far. The slower mounts in game aren't really meant for carrying a lot anyways.

Currently, I can ride from one side of the world to the other in less than half 1 in game day, with or without 3 trunks packed to my mount of choice.

The only playability problem I foresee with this change is you wouldn't be able to travel across the world as quickly. And so what? It should take a pretty long time for me to ride across many miles, nay leagues. Especially so if I've got 3 trunks filled with logs packed to my inix and I'm a massive half-giant. Slowing down weighted mounts would make travel slightly more dangerous, and also help those poor d-elves and raiders who have to watch spam-riders travel by in the blink of an eye.

[Lizzie]

Except none of that has anything to do with the suggestion of a new "pace" command.

Correct, but it's still brainstorming an idea for a solution to a hypothetical coded problem. Isn't that what this part of the GDB is for?

I like Patuk's idea. Weight probably should affect how quickly your mount can move, not only how far. The slower mounts in game aren't really meant for carrying a lot anyways.

Currently, I can ride from one side of the world to the other in less than half 1 in game day, with or without 3 trunks packed to my mount of choice.

The only playability problem I foresee with this change is you wouldn't be able to travel across the world as quickly. And so what? It should take a pretty long time for me to ride across many miles, nay leagues. Especially so if I've got 3 trunks filled with logs packed to my inix and I'm a massive half-giant. Slowing down weighted mounts would make travel slightly more dangerous, and also help those poor d-elves and raiders who have to watch spam-riders travel by in the blink of an eye.

Except this has nothing to do with the hypothetical problem that prompted this thread to be created in the first place.

The problem:

A group of people riding mounts. The leader has a mount that has a natural speed faster than at least one (or more) of the followers in the group. As a result of the player of the leader being unable to manually pace himself such that the slowest coded mount is able to keep up...

The proposed solution:

provide a coded "pace" command that allows the leader to intentionally slow his own mount down to the natural coded pace of whichever mount he targets.

How does your idea address this problem, and/or counter the proposed solution?

[Rhyden]

True guess we were just offering more ideas to help slow down too-fast riders. I'm way too lazy to start another thread.

[bcw81]

How exactly would weight affecting the ease of riding the game make things less playable?

Srsly. Playability is not a one way street. Just because you think it's playability reasons you should be able to carry ten dead gurth on your back, doesn't mean that you should for playability reasons. What about all the other hunters now unable to hunt carru because you killed them all, let alone sell the items from the ONE gurth they killed because you flooded the market with your playability.

You're not answering my question. Not in the slightest.

It's because I was agreeing with you.

[Lizzie]

True guess we were just offering more ideas to help slow down too-fast riders. I'm way too lazy to start another thread.

That's the thing. They're not too fast. They're going as fast as inixes go. If that was "too" fast, then the staff wouldn't make them go, whatever speed they go. They'd make them go slower. There's really no problem, presently, with the speed of mounts. It's not something that needs to be fixed.

What could be improved, however, is the ability to have a group travel AS a group. And - a group can only go as fast as its slowest member (otherwise, they're no longer a group).

[Barsook]

What could be improved, however, is the ability to have a group travel AS a group. And - a group can only go as fast as its slowest member (otherwise, they're no longer a group).

+1

[musashi]

What could be improved, however, is the ability to have a group travel AS a group. And - a group can only go as fast as its slowest member (otherwise, they're no longer a group).

+1

+2

As to this:

Srsly. Playability is not a one way street. Just because you think it's playability reasons you should be able to carry ten dead gurth on your back, doesn't mean that you should for playability reasons. What about all the other hunters now unable to hunt carru because you killed them all, let alone sell the items from the ONE gurth they killed because you flooded the market with your playability.

If you see someone running around with ten dead gurth packed onto their mount as well as ALL THE CARRU then file a player complaint. I'm sorry, but odds are there isn't one twinky hunter out ruining your fun thus requiring a code change that makes things a little more of a pain in the ass for everyone else.

More likely ... what's happening is there are 5-6 well played hunters out killing 1-3 animals each through the course of their hunting trip, and then you showed up and didn't see any critters left over. Same with the market complaint.

[Fredd]

We could always make the system even MORE complicated.

You know, change speed based on load, health, and mood.

Then you'd have to walk at an arbitrarily low speed just to get anywhere.

Welcome to real life, folks.  It's hard.

I would use it a ton, especially when playing an unclanned or tribal. Where all of your friends will have different mounts. And i don't spam walk when outside the gates, EVER. Not once in the years I have played. And i stop and emote as well. And I still lose Inix's and sunlon's and sunbacks when on a beetle, and so on.

[solera]

In RL, you have a fast, capable one at the back.

[Patuk]

True guess we were just offering more ideas to help slow down too-fast riders. I'm way too lazy to start another thread.

What could be improved, however, is the ability to have a group travel AS a group. And - a group can only go as fast as its slowest member (otherwise, they're no longer a group).

Regardless of the idea I've offered, this I agree with. Such a command would be neat.

[Sephiroto]

Here's where I wish I was a coder, because I would solve this using 2 steps.

First, add a "mercy pace" flag with on/off toggle just like all the other mercy flags.

Second, change the movement code so that if the pace flag is on, your character's movement delay is set to that of the slowest person following your PC, be they mounted or afoot.

Overall, this would probably solve the problem rather simply and require minimal setup for parties and their leader.

[Barsook]

I dig that idea more than the OP's.

[Lizzie]

Here's where I wish I was a coder, because I would solve this using 2 steps.

First, add a "mercy pace" flag with on/off toggle just like all the other mercy flags.

Second, change the movement code so that if the pace flag is on, your character's movement delay is set to that of the slowest person following your PC, be they mounted or afoot.

Overall, this would probably solve the problem rather simply and require minimal setup for parties and their leader.

I'd rather have to set my pace to a specific target, rather than "whichever follower is slowest." Because if there's someone shadowing the group, and I don't know about it..the code is either going to come up with an error, or it's going to pace me to the person I don't know is there (but is there). And conversely - if there's someone shadowing the group, and I -do- know about it, and I don't want anyone _else_ to know about it..I'd like to be able to pace myself to that hidden person, on purpose, and not bypass him just because he's hidden to everyone else in the group. Or maybe I want him to feel free to lag behind if he wants - there's all kinds of situations I can come up with, that would make me want to pace someone -specific- and not just "whoever is slowest."

[Sephiroto]

I'd rather have to set my pace to a specific target, rather than "whichever follower is slowest." Because if there's someone shadowing the group, and I don't know about it..the code is either going to come up with an error, or it's going to pace me to the person I don't know is there (but is there).

If the mercy pace flag would set your movement delay to that of the slowest person following you that you can see, then hidden people following you about wouldn't be a problem.  And, if there were sneakies following you around and you wanted them to keep up then you could probably just slow things down a touch with some good, old-fashioned roleplay instead of worrying about an ooc-tool designed to help out with spam group movement.

[i can haz mantis]

I... really, really like Sephiroto's idea. 

[Nyr]

The idea is neat and it is potential area for improvement.  Using mercy to implement it (if at all) is not the best approach.  Mercy is for the combat code.

[i can haz mantis]

Nosave speed or some-such then?

[Sephiroto]

Ah yeah, nosave is a better parent command.  It's been so long since I've played that I had completely forgotten that the command even existed!

[Jenred]

Just stop walking so fast.

[Malcille]

Love the idea and add my support.

Not only due to the out pacing aspect, but the lag that can build up on the followers. Even if you spam four rooms then emote, the lag build up on the others creates a dangerous situation for them.

[MeTekillot]

nosave follow
You maintain your current pace, regardless of anyone following you.

nosave follow
You will now slow down to keep pace with your followers, unless they are sneaking.

[Harmless]

nosave follow
You maintain your current pace, regardless of anyone following you.

nosave follow
You will now slow down to keep pace with your followers, unless they are sneaking.

+1

[maxid]

I support this idea fully.  Anyone claiming 'omg stop spamwalking' or anything else misses several points.  All examples are random.

1. Being chased by NPC animals, where staying in a group is safer, there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to w,w,w,w,w,w away from a kryl if you're trying not to fight it, but also move as a cohesive unit, especially in a military outfit like the Legion.  If everyone is spamfleeing, sure, they'll get broken up, by an organized fallback should be able to remain fairly organized.  Spamwalking away from NPCs has been supported as ok, and even the proper thing to do by staff in the past (I believe it was Nyr, but I'm too lazy to find the actual posts.)

2. RL time constraints sometimes make it so that trips out into the wilderness need to end quickly.  A simple - 'ooc Hey sarge, I just realized how late it was can we go back soon?' could be followed by the pace command to get people back without Amos' mount slowing despite the fact that they're all trying to stay in a group to get back, requiring people to backtrack and waste time/movement points/etc.  OOC concerns trump IC ones in every case, and getting back home due to a lack of wilderness quit as quickly as possible is sometimes good when things run long (as they often do.)

3. As stated before, in an organized unit, you usually put a fast, capable rider in the back to keep people from falling behind.  This is not possible with the current code, but becomes possible with a nosave toggle like this.  Hell, make the nosave toggle open up off of the ride skill, to make sure that only capable people are able to keep a group cohesive and together when riding quickly.  That way it makes sense IC, allows for OOC functionality, and ends up adding to the game, rather than being pithily dismissed by the lazy, no-innovation crew on the GDB.

[Marauder Moe]

I didn't miss any of those points.  The act of pacing yourself and making sure everyone is keeping up IS how you organize your unit, whether falling back from a threat or just trying to make good time.  Everything you mention is currently possible with the code.  You all are just asking for the game to further automate your leadership responsabilities.


I'm not lazy (not sure how I could be considered lazy since it wouldn't be my effort put into code changes...) nor against innovation.  It's simply that this never struck me as a problem before.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but you don't need to be insulting just because some of us dared to say as much.

[maxid]

I apologize that you feel insulted.  However you've consistently failed to address any of the points brought up in a meaningful way, which makes it appear as if you're against change simply to be against change.

[Marauder Moe]

Firstly, I don't see how I could have "consistently" failed to address your points seeing as I've only posted twice in this thread, and only once since your post... 3 posts ago.

Secondly, just because you dislike or disagree with what I said, or that I didn't use as many words as you did, doesn't mean I failed to address your arguments.


Maybe I am just old and stubborn, but has the practice of spamwalking become so accepted that we should facilitate it with new code?  I recall when it was practically a regular part of the hate cycle, especially in outdoor situations (though in that domain it was considered more unwise than simply unrealistic).

[Lizzie]

Firstly, I don't see how I could have "consistently" failed to address your points seeing as I've only posted twice in this thread, and only once since your post... 3 posts ago.

Secondly, just because you dislike or disagree with what I said, or that I didn't use as many words as you did, doesn't mean I failed to address your arguments.


Maybe I am just old and stubborn, but has the practice of spamwalking become so accepted that we should facilitate it with new code?  I recall when it was practically a regular part of the hate cycle, especially in outdoor situations (though in that domain it was considered more unwise than simply unrealistic).

I don't spam-walk. And I still have the problem, and I still think that a subroutine to accommodate for it would be great. I not only don't spam-walk, but I type out the directions. North, south, east, west, up, down. I also look north, look south, look east, look west, all typed out by hand, and I pay attention to the feedback before moving to the next room. And I _still_ encounter situations where the people following me lag behind. Maybe it's because I type faster than the code. I dunno, and I don't care. All I know is, it'd be really helpful to be able to move only as fast as whoever I target in my group.

[RogueGunslinger]

Stop buying your lackeys sunbacks. Or make the slowest person the leader.


It's a good idea, it just won't be implemented, so here's some other solutions.

[Malken]

I don't spam-walk. And I still have the problem, and I still think that a subroutine to accommodate for it would be great. I not only don't spam-walk, but I type out the directions. North, south, east, west, up, down. I also look north, look south, look east, look west, all typed out by hand

Wait.. What? Do you mean that you always type out "north", like, "north", "north", "north", to go north, and not just n, or even better, hit the up arrow on your keyboard...? 

[RogueGunslinger]

I bet she has great typing accuracy. Mine is so atrocious.... I would never ever try to type out the full words like that. I use my Numberpad for movement.

[Malken]

I bet she has great typing accuracy. Mine is so atrocious.... I would never ever try to type out the full words like that. I use my Numberpad for movement.

Great typing accuracy or not, I would never do that or can't find any reasons to do it. I worked for Fedex for five years as a data entry clerk, so my typing is pretty above average I'm sure.

omg, yolo brololo, use the numpad.

Sorry for the derail, I'm just  as to why someone would do that to themselves, if that's the case. Feel free to personally tell me why, Lizzie, if that's really the case

/derail

[RogueGunslinger]

Malken you're talking to someone who has never updated their sound/video drivers. I think it's safe to assume the answer is "because I've always done it like that"


Sometimes changing is harder than doing what you already do.

[maxid]

Maybe I'm just ... stubborn

Problem found.  You've offered no counterpoints, only a lazy appeal to tradition, which is a logical fallacy.  I offered many reasons as to how and why it would be a benefit to the game.  It is now your turn to point out how they could be misused, or how they hurt the game in other, unmentioned ways.  That is how discussions work.  If you'd like to actually address the point, I welcome it.  However, you've done nothing but rail against this potential change simply because it is change, and attempt to shame people for playing the game in a way that is supported by staff (as mentioned above, I'm almost completely positive that staff has straight up advocated speedwalking when dealing with NPCs, because they won't stop to pose.) 

[Marauder Moe]

No, I'm done with you for now.

[Cind]

Here this out, this theoretical situation, I want to know what you think.

The *Beep*bringer is heading your way, and it is slower than all mounts present at running speed. For some reason like a blinding sandstorm you need to stick together. Using a version of pace to automatically follow the one person who happens to know how to lose the insane mob coming after you, you attempt to keep up with their speed no matter what. It would be like reverse pace. You'd all be going as fast as you could, not as fast as you would be scattering in all directions, but you'd get a boost to not losing somebody that would be worth the risk.

I can't think of situations apart from trying to keep everyone together and fleeing where it could be used though, or any other versions of a pace command.

[maxid]

No, I'm done with you for now.

As you wish, let me know when you wish to defend your side.  I'm sorry I upset you.

[Jenred]

Yes some of us type out whole commands.
Mine is more as a habit from having to write things out, and playing past muds/mushes where there were no shortcuts.
And my old laptop didn't have a numpad.

And you can't do directional emotes with the numpad...

[Eurynomos]

I don't know if we've advocated speed walking. If anything we've advocated not speed walking. I suppose where NPC's are concerned, it is code versus code -- The Gith aren't going to appreciate your flowery emotes or give you a second to catch your breath, etc.

[maxid]

I suppose where NPC's are concerned, it is code versus code -- The Gith aren't going to appreciate your flowery emotes or give you a second to catch your breath, etc.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about, and the situation that this code could potentially aid in, as per my examples.

[Harmless]

You gotta remember this game is as much about losing as it is about convenience, joy, success, and winning. If every way in which we could lose were taken away it'd be boring. constant success leads to boredom and burnout.

I understand and support resistance to ideas like pace. I happen to like speedwalking now that I have mastered the stop command, so I support this, but I don't feel strongly either.

[Jenred]

I'm against it because I believe that some of the code wonkiness makes up for the general lack of unsafety that should exist. Its already too safe to walk across the world. Some of the unexpected code wonkiness at least keeps its potentially deadly.

If code implementations to make the wastes more dangerous kept up to speed with code implementations to ease traveling, then sure, I'd be all for this.