Interesting Analytics

[Ender]

I saw a couple weeks ago we had 291 unique accounts logged in, so I was curious to see how that week compared to other weeks, and one thing led to another:



The trend line seems fairly consistent with last year, so from a data perspective I think it's neat that Arm's retention rate more or less matches its turnover rate.  Looking over the new accounts statistic I'm shocked just how many new accounts are made each week which makes me think we either have a really high turnover rate, or a really low retention rate.  The answer is probably somewhere in the middle-ish.

[Jeshin]

Dramatic Re-enactment

Oh cool an... RPI mud. Guess that means they really appreciate roleplay.

*login to mud*
*create account*

Oh I have to wait for approval and read a whole bunch of docs? Bleh.

*muddles through 1st application*
*gets rejected and is offered pointers on fixes* or *gets approved and enters a world where commands may be unfamiliar and distinguishing npcs from pcs is difficult at first*

End!

These are problems every mud and especially every application mud will face. As a rule of thumb, the more streamlined a newbies experience is the more likely they are to stay around. The more delays involved the more likely they are to be discouraged or simply go back to something they're more comfortable with.

1. Introduction documentation: Armageddon has a great wealth of documentation that can be sifted through and it has beginner guides and the like. However, a newer set of documentation for newbies focusing on streamlining things that are most likely to lose a new player could go a long way. I kind of bet someone on staff has been or is planning on working on this at some point or has already finished it and it's waiting for the new website. In any case the current documentation is certainly fine and with the helper chat it's not something the MUD is lacking.

2. Rejection of initial apps: Armageddon provides quality RP and a consistent world. The cost of such is review of character backgrounds, mdesc, sdesc, and concept upon creation. The people most likely to be rejected are the newest players. Rejection can often lead to frustration or simply loss of motivation. Luckily the staff have always been good, to me at least, about providing guidance and even encouragement on both rejected and approved apps.

3. New commands / New setting: One of the biggest causes of player loss is a lack of familiarity with the MUD commands. There is almost nothing you can do to ease this besides having good help files and the helper chat. This is one of those issues that you just have to accept some newbies won't overcome unless they happen to use the helper chat or bump into a kindly player IG.

A few other statistics that would help gauge player retention would be # of hours played on inactive accounts, # of character approved / rejected, and whether they link-dead or quit out last. These would allow the staff to get a better idea of where and when they're losing players. On the flip side some battles just can't be won and it's often better to accept that players whom don't have the interest or drive to stick around despite all of Armageddons tools would probably not have been the bestest.

[Maso]

Dramatic Re-enactment

Oh cool an... RPI mud. Guess that means they really appreciate roleplay.

*login to mud*
*create account*

Oh I have to wait for approval and read a whole bunch of docs? Bleh.

*muddles through 1st application*
*gets rejected and is offered pointers on fixes* or *gets approved and enters a world where commands may be unfamiliar and distinguishing npcs from pcs is difficult at first*

End!

These are problems every mud and especially every application mud will face. As a rule of thumb, the more streamlined a newbies experience is the more likely they are to stay around. The more delays involved the more likely they are to be discouraged or simply go back to something they're more comfortable with.

1. Introduction documentation: Armageddon has a great wealth of documentation that can be sifted through and it has beginner guides and the like. However, a newer set of documentation for newbies focusing on streamlining things that are most likely to lose a new player could go a long way. I kind of bet someone on staff has been or is planning on working on this at some point or has already finished it and it's waiting for the new website. In any case the current documentation is certainly fine and with the helper chat it's not something the MUD is lacking.

2. Rejection of initial apps: Armageddon provides quality RP and a consistent world. The cost of such is review of character backgrounds, mdesc, sdesc, and concept upon creation. The people most likely to be rejected are the newest players. Rejection can often lead to frustration or simply loss of motivation. Luckily the staff have always been good, to me at least, about providing guidance and even encouragement on both rejected and approved apps.

3. New commands / New setting: One of the biggest causes of player loss is a lack of familiarity with the MUD commands. There is almost nothing you can do to ease this besides having good help files and the helper chat. This is one of those issues that you just have to accept some newbies won't overcome unless they happen to use the helper chat or bump into a kindly player IG.

A few other statistics that would help gauge player retention would be # of hours played on inactive accounts, # of character approved / rejected, and whether they link-dead or quit out last. These would allow the staff to get a better idea of where and when they're losing players. On the flip side some battles just can't be won and it's often better to accept that players whom don't have the interest or drive to stick around despite all of Armageddons tools would probably not have been the bestest.

Yeah, with completely new players to Arm, it's probably a bit softer and more encouraging to fix up their app for them and just approve it?

I thought maybe having a list of some ideas for good 'newb' character concepts might help. Like....various ideas for the types of characters that are easier to play at the outset, that helps with the jarring nature of not knowing what you are doing and needing to ask a ton of questions to other players.

[Eriad]

Dramatic Re-enactment

Oh cool an... RPI mud. Guess that means they really appreciate roleplay.

*login to mud*
*create account*

Oh I have to wait for approval and read a whole bunch of docs? Bleh.

*muddles through 1st application*
*gets rejected and is offered pointers on fixes* or *gets approved and enters a world where commands may be unfamiliar and distinguishing npcs from pcs is difficult at first*

End!

These are problems every mud and especially every application mud will face. As a rule of thumb, the more streamlined a newbies experience is the more likely they are to stay around. The more delays involved the more likely they are to be discouraged or simply go back to something they're more comfortable with.

1. Introduction documentation: Armageddon has a great wealth of documentation that can be sifted through and it has beginner guides and the like. However, a newer set of documentation for newbies focusing on streamlining things that are most likely to lose a new player could go a long way. I kind of bet someone on staff has been or is planning on working on this at some point or has already finished it and it's waiting for the new website. In any case the current documentation is certainly fine and with the helper chat it's not something the MUD is lacking.

2. Rejection of initial apps: Armageddon provides quality RP and a consistent world. The cost of such is review of character backgrounds, mdesc, sdesc, and concept upon creation. The people most likely to be rejected are the newest players. Rejection can often lead to frustration or simply loss of motivation. Luckily the staff have always been good, to me at least, about providing guidance and even encouragement on both rejected and approved apps.

3. New commands / New setting: One of the biggest causes of player loss is a lack of familiarity with the MUD commands. There is almost nothing you can do to ease this besides having good help files and the helper chat. This is one of those issues that you just have to accept some newbies won't overcome unless they happen to use the helper chat or bump into a kindly player IG.

A few other statistics that would help gauge player retention would be # of hours played on inactive accounts, # of character approved / rejected, and whether they link-dead or quit out last. These would allow the staff to get a better idea of where and when they're losing players. On the flip side some battles just can't be won and it's often better to accept that players whom don't have the interest or drive to stick around despite all of Armageddons tools would probably not have been the bestest.

Yes, I had played around on a few Hack n' Slash MUDs, then I played SoI (Shadows of Isildur) for a bit. The above happened to me when I played SoI, then I played Arm and things just fit in. RPI takes a bit to get used to.

[Ender]

Yeah, with completely new players to Arm, it's probably a bit softer and more encouraging to fix up their app for them and just approve it?

I thought maybe having a list of some ideas for good 'newb' character concepts might help. Like....various ideas for the types of characters that are easier to play at the outset, that helps with the jarring nature of not knowing what you are doing and needing to ask a ton of questions to other players.

Ehhh...  the only way I would like to see this is if a staffer or a player actually walks the new player through a pre-approved app.

I've always felt making a PC on your own that genuinely fits into the world is a good litmus test to see if a new player truly gets it.  

I know it may seem harsh, but Arm has a super high standard of roleplay, and it'll be frustrating and painful for both the newbie and the established players if newbies just jump into the game with no real concept of what the game world demands of them RP-wise.

What we really need is just more helpers and a better and easier way to connect those helpers to newer players to answer questions on the fly and guide them like little baby birds.  How well is the Livechat app currently working?  I know I'm a helper, but somehow I never got a login to it , probably my own fault.

[Maso]

I suppose that's a good way of looking at it. Although, I also think Arm is 'good enough' that it can encourage and inspire players to become better.

I was turned on to Arm by a friend (I can't even remember who now! I don't know if they are still out there, and I never saw them in game). But I spent a ton of time reading through the docs before I even app'd my first character...and then through that characters life and before my next...spent even more time literally just...reading it all. There's a lot. It can be overwhelming...but I reaaally wanted to play Arm, so I was determined to get it right!

[Delirium]

The Livechat app works great from a Helper standpoint... but I'm surprised at how little traffic it gets.

Maybe it's just the hours I log in (workdays EST).

As far as numbers, to me, Armageddon's playerbase seems to be trending very slowly upward while maintaining a steady rotation of old/new players.

[Ender]

The Livechat app works great from a Helper standpoint... but I'm surprised at how little traffic it gets.

Maybe it's just the hours I log in (workdays EST).

As far as numbers, to me, Armageddon's playerbase seems to be trending very slowly upward while maintaining a steady rotation of old/new players.

Yea, that's pretty much what I noticed from the trend.  the player base is healthy and growing, though slowly.  The last few weeks have had really high number of new accounts, but I'll have to look at more data to see if it's an anomaly or just normal seasonality.

Or maybe FW's newbie drive is really working!

The next couple weeks will be really telling to see how much the back to school slump will affect the active playerbase.

[Ender]

I pulled the new accounts data from the weekly update:



Interesting averages!

Average amount of unique weekly logins

• 2011(up to end of Aug): 261
  
• 2011(full year): 258
  
• 2012(so far): 262

Average weekly amount of new accounts

• 2011(up to end of Aug): 27
  
• 2011(full year): 25
• 2012(so far): 34

These totals just boggle my mind.  Over thirty people making accounts each week?  That's over 100 new accounts every month.  It's insane to me.

Here's my dream list of other metrics if any imms wanna hook a brother up:

Weekly number of accounts:

• Went dormant (logged in last week, didn't log in this week)
• Logged in only once
• New Accounts that didn't make a character or only logged in once (whatever is easier to track)
• Rejected applications that didn't reapply
• Became active again (didn't log in last week, but logged in this week)

[My 2 sids]

The the games Candy Land and Chess are very different - and probably will draw different audiences.  But, at the end of the day people who want to play the game will take the time to learn the basic rules of play.  Even if they're not very good at it -- the love for the game will keep them.  I don't think Arm should ever downplay having high standards -- so long as there is commitment to provide motivation and clear steps to achieve those high standards.


As far as this specific topic, I think there are two learning curves:  the OOC and the IC.  OOCly, I think the staff and players do a great job of being supportive and keeping information organized and available. (although, I will always point out that knit-picking can and does come across as unfriendly)

ICly, Arm can be pretty isolating.  Even after reading the Docs, developing your PC, and getting approved -- you're dropped into a world and told "you're PC has no relationships and no reason to trust anyone."  

And we say the answer to this are Clans-- but are they?  

Warrior type?  After you've spent the majority of your sids on full price starting gear and tavern sitting you'll be directed to a clan that has the fewest number of leadership PCs and the highest death rate.  When you're done RPing mucking out the latrines you'll go on outings which take you around the world you know nothing about and into battles so spam-heavy they'll make your eyes bleed.

Ranger?  choose the harsh desert learning curve or the how-does-one-understand-sublties-when the only thing you get to see is what the others around you emote  or take your chances going into an area where there isn't another PC for miles.

City-dweller?  Welcome to the "we're going to say your character can do/ be anyone but really you'll be excluded or killed because there is no such thing as an aide/bard/grubber PCs"

Bad guy?  Well, you're just strait up on your own to figure that out.  But, don't do it wrong or you'll be crucified on the GDB and start your playerhood with poor notes against your account.


The point:
Having more IC families or apprenticeships could, I think, greatly improve the isolation feeling.  And I think older players wouldn't mind teaching one newbie -- instead of going in a clan which may not fit their own PC's point of view or trying to take responsibly to entertain/teach an entire gaggle of new player PCs.

[Maso]

Personally, I don't see the current clans like that at all.

If you go for a warrior/ranger type role initially then I think the Byn, so long as it is fairly active when you are around, is a great environment for learning, and the leader PC's are generally quite understand of new players. The schedule has a good balance between RP-related tasks and skill-related tasks to give the player some inspiration and guidance as well as gearing their PC up to have a better chance of survival. They get shown the world that they would otherwise die very quickly trying to explore initially.

If you are city based you have both merchant houses and noble houses (as well as the Templarate) depending on which way you go...Personally I feel the aide route is great (and really helped me in the early days). As you tend to get a lot of one on one interaction with someone who has been selected for a leadership role and is often a great role model.

The clans in game serve brilliantly to help new players....the biggest problem I see is activity and playtimes. I imagine a lot of the new players that don't hang around...are probably off-peakers. Which is sad, because with the rate of the new accounts being made...I bet it could be really well populated if some folk hung around.

Maybe a few SUPER OFFPEAK RPT'S, to sleep-deprive the hardcore players and lure them into the off-peak, would serve to make that time of day seem more populated, and this encourage some players to hang around...resulting in making it actually more populated?

I dunno. Clutching at straws.

[Eurynomos]

We already go through first-time Apps and review/edit/sometimes even write up a whole new description, instead of rejecting them.

[Ender]

We already go through first-time Apps and review/edit/sometimes even write up a whole new description, instead of rejecting them.

Awesome!  I did not know that.

[solaruin]

Yeah, with completely new players to Arm, it's probably a bit softer and more encouraging to fix up their app for them and just approve it?

That's basically what happened to me. I'll admit, even going from para-posting to arm was a bit of a leap, mostly because of the code.
It was impossible for me to understand where i was at, but making my own maps really helped me with this. i think the biggest issue was trying to figure out emotes. i still don't have that great of a grasp on them, but at least I'm at a passable level. what i really need is to find somewhere alone and play with them a bit. Stand alone emotes are easy, putting them around actions is whats hard.
I did use the helper chat to the extent that i thought i was probably annoying them, and eventually read most of the documentations, but i feel like there are still things missing...
i would REALLY like to see a list of idioms. Just a collection of slang and sayings. what do people from 'nak say for goodbye for example? do they say 'his light' like in tuluk? i heard someone say 'shade and profit' as a goodbye the other day, where does this come from? i figure a lot of the reason for this not being around is because you want people to 'find out in game', but i think that anyone with the capacity to play ARM has the capacity to keep ooc info out of their PCs head.
Just a thought

[Maso]

We already go through first-time Apps and review/edit/sometimes even write up a whole new description, instead of rejecting them.

I think I might have already known this...it may have been what occurred with my first app...though not a complete rewrite...because I'm awesome obviously.

[Maso]

Yeah, with completely new players to Arm, it's probably a bit softer and more encouraging to fix up their app for them and just approve it?

That's basically what happened to me. I'll admit, even going from para-posting to arm was a bit of a leap, mostly because of the code.
It was impossible for me to understand where i was at, but making my own maps really helped me with this. i think the biggest issue was trying to figure out emotes. i still don't have that great of a grasp on them, but at least I'm at a passable level. what i really need is to find somewhere alone and play with them a bit. Stand alone emotes are easy, putting them around actions is whats hard.
I did use the helper chat to the extent that i thought i was probably annoying them, and eventually read most of the documentations, but i feel like there are still things missing...
i would REALLY like to see a list of idioms. Just a collection of slang and sayings. what do people from 'nak say for goodbye for example? do they say 'his light' like in tuluk? i heard someone say 'shade and profit' as a goodbye the other day, where does this come from? i figure a lot of the reason for this not being around is because you want people to 'find out in game', but i think that anyone with the capacity to play ARM has the capacity to keep ooc info out of their PCs head.
Just a thought

Oof! In Allanak it is "His Shadow" and in Tuluk it is "His Light" - just so you know! Big difference.

I think the main thing...and there is nothing anyone can do to change this....is how long it takes Arm to *click* in the mind of the player and whether they can hold out long enough to let this happen. It's the same with pretty much any mud...For a while...it's all just text...it's overwhelming...you can't visualize it...and there's so much you need to read. After a while, your imagination kicks in and it starts to get easier...and a lot more fun.

I agree, making maps really helped me. I mapped out Allanak and the bazaar and that was super beneficial (no offense, but the in game maps are harddddd to follow!)

[My 2 sids]

Except that if people didn't have creativity or imagination, they wouldn't be drawn to Arm in the first place.  "suck it up & stick it out" is not a good test of a player's potential and is certainly not a great advertising slogan.


"Clicking" is really all about figuring out how a person's IC experience really fits into the Big Picture of what's going on in game.  But, again, I go back to the chess analogy:  it may take a years to master, but the general understanding and ability to play should really only take an afternoon or so to learn.



**going back to clans.  There are the way the clans are supposed to work and then the way they actually work.   

[Maso]

No, clicking has nothing to do with a personal IC experience or the game world....It just has everything to do with how quickly a players mind can take in and process all the information. It's more like when you are learning to drive...and every action requires thought...and then one day it just clicks and a lot of it becomes instinctual. Up until that point...it is still difficult.

[Delusion]

The GDB's hive mind often seems to turn out the notion that the Byn is a superb place for new players to play their first character. Thing is, it sucks if you're off-peak and new, unless there's some large amount of off-peak players in the Byn at the time. My first character joined the Byn, and my playtimes were off-peak. A lot of my with that character was spent idling with no other PCs around at all. If I hadn't RPed and MUDed before that, and was instead brand new to the genre, I would probably have given up within a few days - it was boring. I actually got to about 15 days logged on that character before I just got fed up and pretty much forgot all about Arm - I did return a few months later, at least.

I think that a guide to how to survive alone, including simple things like the routes between major settlements, where to purchase basic food and affordable water in each settlement, what areas the average vNPC hunter frequents and so on would be great for player retention, particularly for the off-peak crowd.

[kayza]

I got sucked into this game very quickly as I was always an RPer even on other games.  I don't know what I would do if I logged on here and was use to hack and slash.

Regardless this game is terrible on new players.  I have no real solutions in how to fix this but I think it is something that is very important to address.   The only thing I can come out is try to make the game seem less elitist.  Karma and applications should be done perhaps a little softer in terms of how they introduced to a new player.  Obviously applications you can't much, but having a screen of a bunch of blank races and guilds you can't play is very daunting.     

Is it a terrible idea to have your first character have some pre-gen options?  Or at least make examples more in your face.  If there already are, I haven't noticed them so they aren't really being advertised much.

Honestly, I can search the board and find this problem come up zillions of times.  In the end it seems the end response is "working as intended."

[Jeshin]

I think that a guide to how to survive alone, including simple things like the routes between major settlements, where to purchase basic food and affordable water in each settlement, what areas the average vNPC hunter frequents and so on would be great for player retention, particularly for the off-peak crowd.

I would point out that if this information needs to be learned IC. We have this really cool discuss <topic> with npc command. You could seed NPCs that just blabbed this stuff at people, maybe even for coin.

[RogueGunslinger]

I got sucked into this game very quickly as I was always an RPer even on other games.  I don't know what I would do if I logged on here and was use to hack and slash.

Regardless this game is terrible on new players.  I have no real solutions in how to fix this but I think it is something that is very important to address.   The only thing I can come out is try to make the game seem less elitist.  Karma and applications should be done perhaps a little softer in terms of how they introduced to a new player.  Obviously applications you can't much, but having a screen of a bunch of blank races and guilds you play seems very daunting.

Is it a terrible idea to have your first character have some pre-gen options?  Or at least make examples more in your face.  If there already are, I haven't noticed them so they aren't really being advertised much.

Honestly, I can search the board and find this problem come up zillions of times.  In the end it seems the end response is "working as intended."

When addressing problems it's probably best to be clear what those problems are, and what ideas you might have to fix it. Reading your post a few times and I'm really not sure what the problem is you're seeing. I never found the list of races and hguilds particularly "daunting" And when I was a nooby I didn't really suspect anythign elitist about the game either.

Can you be a little more descriptive with what you mean? Because I also think player retention is important. But it always seems like peoples issues are incredibly vague and never really in agreement with each-other.

[Maso]

There is a 'Newbie Hall' now, that you can point to? That should help! I haven't tried it...but...I assume....

And the Byn IS good...on peak. Maybe an off-peak Byn Sarge would help? I dunnoooo.

[Maso]

And when I was a nooby I didn't really suspect anythign elitist about the game either.

Because you were an elitist noooob.

Kidding.

[Delusion]

There is a 'Newbie Hall' now, that you can point to? That should help! I haven't tried it...but...I assume....

And the Byn IS good...on peak. Maybe an off-peak Byn Sarge would help? I dunnoooo.

It would still require a critical mass of off-peak players willing to join the Byn.

[kayza]

When addressing problems it's probably best to be clear what those problems are, and what ideas you might have to fix it. Reading your post a few times and I'm really not sure what the problem is you're seeing. I never found the list of races and hguilds particularly "daunting" And when I was a nooby I didn't really suspect anythign elitist about the game either.

Well that's the issue you don't see it cause you are use to it.  But being introduced to a game where right at the start it seems like you are not equal to everyone else on an OOC level is difficult to get accustomed with.  Yes as you play you realize that is not true, but in the beginning I feel that is what is portrayed.

While I somewhat regret writing what I did, the fact is.  It's true but people don't want to hear that the game is a bit cruel on new players.  If I felt it as a new player in the past, as have others.

Again I do regret saying it cause I think a lot of you take offense to something like this.  As it is an unintentional byproduct of how the game works.

[RogueGunslinger]

There is a 'Newbie Hall' now, that you can point to? That should help! I haven't tried it...but...I assume....

And the Byn IS good...on peak. Maybe an off-peak Byn Sarge would help? I dunnoooo.

Any clan is bad off peak. The game is not as fun when there isn't anyone to interact with. The Byn is great as a newbie clan simply because of the amount of traffic it gets.

[Jeshin]

If I was going to give advice to a newbie. I would actually point them towards partisanship in Tuluk. The concept is broad enough to envelope all manner of characters and is involved enough to provide guidance without limiting future options seriously.

[Delirium]

^ that.

[MeTekillot]

Playing in Tuluk can be excessively obtuse for anybody who is not obscenely familiar with their culture.

[Delirium]

You don't have to deal too much with that as a low-level grebber, though, and it is a smidge easier to survive in as a n00b.

[RogueGunslinger]

When addressing problems it's probably best to be clear what those problems are, and what ideas you might have to fix it. Reading your post a few times and I'm really not sure what the problem is you're seeing. I never found the list of races and hguilds particularly "daunting" And when I was a nooby I didn't really suspect anythign elitist about the game either.

Well that's the issue you don't see it cause you are use to it.  But being introduced to a game where right at the start it seems like you are not equal to everyone else on an OOC level is difficult to get accustomed with.  Yes as you play you realize that is not true, but in the beginning I feel that is what is portrayed.

While I somewhat regret writing what I did, the fact is.  It's true but people don't want to hear that the game is a bit cruel on new players.  If I felt it as a new player in the past, as have others.

Again I do regret saying it cause I think a lot of you take offense to something like this.  As it is an unintentional byproduct of how the game works.

Maybe I'm just mis-remembering. But as a newbie I didn't really feel what you're describing. Perhaps I did and forgot, but generally as a noobie the only thing that was daunting to me was getting a handle on the lore and OOC things that my character would generally know about the culture. And that my roleplay would suffer a bit because of that. I just accepted it as being a noob though.

This is why I'm curious to know exactly what you're experiencing when you say "elitism" because It's never something I considered. I never thought I wasn't getting my fair shake as a payer just because I was new. OR that other players wouldn't include me because I was new, or anything like that.

[Maso]

I started in Tuluk. It was scary. It's -still- scary.

It actually only really takes one interesting person to be around enough to keep you entertained off-peak (thats what got me through). So having a super off-peak Byn Sarge could technically be very beneficial. One noob joins. They keep each other company. Then another one joins...because hey! There's two people! And so on..

[Maso]

When addressing problems it's probably best to be clear what those problems are, and what ideas you might have to fix it. Reading your post a few times and I'm really not sure what the problem is you're seeing. I never found the list of races and hguilds particularly "daunting" And when I was a nooby I didn't really suspect anythign elitist about the game either.

Well that's the issue you don't see it cause you are use to it.  But being introduced to a game where right at the start it seems like you are not equal to everyone else on an OOC level is difficult to get accustomed with.  Yes as you play you realize that is not true, but in the beginning I feel that is what is portrayed.

While I somewhat regret writing what I did, the fact is.  It's true but people don't want to hear that the game is a bit cruel on new players.  If I felt it as a new player in the past, as have others.

Again I do regret saying it cause I think a lot of you take offense to something like this.  As it is an unintentional byproduct of how the game works.

I think what might have occurred...is that you stumbled across elitist characters, or it was simply your own lack of self-confidence in a new game. Most Arm players are pretty awesome, down to earth and friendly folks. Their characters however.... >.>

[BadSkeelz]

The last MUD I played had immortal characters who could, by their players cutting the devs a check, obtain godlike powers without significant in-game effort. Arm seems downright egalitarian after that.

My first character never made it into the Byn because I wasn't able to connect with any of the Sergeants. But they did find some other cool clans that were operating in my playtimes and things took off from there. I'd say that better advice for newbies is to get out and explore the world, or even just tavern-camp asking around for job opportunities from players and NPCs. The Byn might be a good newbie fit because it's relatively simplistic in operations, but finding a clan that's active when you are is so much more important than finding one you can be successful in right off the bat.

I also think newbies should be strongly recommended to make their early characters as ignorant as humanly possible about the world beyond the cities. Have some excuse for not knowing a whole lot about the more exotic parts of the world and needing to find out.

I really like the idea of NPCs dispensing useful (and timeless) tidbits of information with >discuss rumors. It's a command that seems sadly underutilized.

I also took one look at the docs page, saw that Tuluk seemed to have 100% more cultural nuance docs than Allanak, and took off running in the other direction.

[Patuk]

I started in Tuluk. It was scary. It's -still- scary.

It actually only really takes one interesting person to be around enough to keep you entertained off-peak (thats what got me through). So having a super off-peak Byn Sarge could technically be very beneficial. One noob joins. They keep each other company. Then another one joins...because hey! There's two people! And so on..

I think it's more the other way around, unfortunately. It's a vicious circle: a clan has no offpeak people, so the people who aren't offpeak are in charge, so no offpeakers are recruited/bother to join, so no offpeaker gets to be in charge, which means that no.. I've seen in happen in one clan at least, and I don't doubt that it happens elsewhere, too.

[Maso]

I started in Tuluk. It was scary. It's -still- scary.

It actually only really takes one interesting person to be around enough to keep you entertained off-peak (thats what got me through). So having a super off-peak Byn Sarge could technically be very beneficial. One noob joins. They keep each other company. Then another one joins...because hey! There's two people! And so on..

I think it's more the other way around, unfortunately. It's a vicious circle: a clan has no offpeak people, so the people who aren't offpeak are in charge, so no offpeakers are recruited/bother to join, so no offpeaker gets to be in charge, which means that no.. I've seen in happen in one clan at least, and I don't doubt that it happens elsewhere, too.

I mean...sponsored roles...to kickstart it.

[kayza]

I think what might have occurred...is that you stumbled across elitist characters, or it was simply your own lack of self-confidence in a new game. Most Arm players are pretty awesome, down to earth and friendly folks. Their characters however.... >.>

Actually I tend to think the player base is awesome and when I hear people complaining about shit I am wondering where they are in the game cause I don't see it.  It was who I rped with that made me stay.    I don't consider myself a great rper, but I think I do well enough that I don't ruin people's immersion.  Sometimes you run into some players and I feel like a noob.

But what I said previously is unimportant. 

On newbie areas..
My first character I am sure was an elf in the Rinth.  And my first Clanned character was in House Kadius.  I have never played a Bynner, but that is something I will change one day.  I agree with rogue that activity is what makes it a good newbie clan not what it is.  At the time Kadius had great people to RP with.

[John]

We already go through first-time Apps and review/edit/sometimes even write up a whole new description, instead of rejecting them.

I remember a dwarf who had clearly had this done for him. Alas the staffer forgot to change his sdesc in addition to his mdesc. The black bearded dwarf will always be remembered.

The GDB's hive mind often seems to turn out the notion that the Byn is a superb place for new players to play their first character. Thing is, it sucks if you're off-peak and new, unless there's some large amount of off-peak players in the Byn at the time. My first character joined the Byn, and my playtimes were off-peak.

It's gotten better. I once had a templar FORCE me into the Byn in game. Suffice it to say the character quickly fled to the desert or 'rinth where he promptly died. As an off peak player I didn't want to join the Byn.

[Maso]

My first character I am sure was an elf in the Rinth. 

Oof! You really made it easy on yourself huh! :p

I think my first clan was Borsail. And then maybe Kadius. I've always been kind of drawn more toward Noble houses, because they are often smaller and less diluted across the Known, less players but if you pick the right one at the right time, more interaction and tighter relationships. But Merchant houses can be awesome too.

[Aernis]

I'm reading this thread with interest.

[Barsook]

I'm reading this thread with interest.

[Incognito]

A while ago, I wrote up 'The Concise Guide to ArmageddonMUD for Newbies' - which is meant specifically to inform and retain first-timers to Arm.

Maybe Staff could edit it (as/where required) and include it in the email which is sent out to new accounts - just so that the newcomers know what to expect from Arm and in what time frame.

Most new applicants are probably seeking "instant gratification" from a new mud they visit - but I have a feeling that if we inform them of what they should expect in a summarized bulletin format which isnt too extensive to digest for them initially, then we may have a better chance at retaining them.

[Barsook]

A while ago, I wrote up 'The Concise Guide to ArmageddonMUD for Newbies' - which is meant specifically to inform and retain first-timers to Arm.

Maybe Staff could edit it (as/where required) and include it in the email which is sent out to new accounts - just so that the newcomers know what to expect from Arm and in what time frame.

Most new applicants are probably seeking "instant gratification" from a new mud they visit - but I have a feeling that if we inform them of what they should expect in a summarized bulletin format which isnt too extensive to digest for them initially, then we may have a better chance at retaining them.

This : http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,33910.0.html

+1

Or mansa's or the one on the site...or is that too much like you have said.

[Ender]

I'm reading this thread with interest.

For all the debate in this thread on how to keep newbies, whatever we're doing right now seems to be working in the long run.  Data is telling the story that our pbase is growing.  

And that makes me happy.


What the data could really be used for in the future is to figure out when we should do newbie drives, and how successful they were when they're over.  Or if a new initiative really made  a difference or not, etc.

From what I can tell, September, December & June are probably the best times for big newbie drives.  Anytime where there is historically a big dip or spike in active players.

[Maso]

I'm reading this thread with interest.

For all the debate in this thread on how to keep newbies, whatever we're doing right now seems to be working in the long run.  Data is telling the story that our pbase is growing.  

And that makes me happy.


What the data could really be used for in the future is to figure out when we should do newbie drives, and how successful they were when they're over.  Or if a new initiative really made  a difference or not, etc.

From what I can tell, September, December & June are probably the best times for big newbie drives.  Anytime where there is historically a big dip or spike in active players.

The average unique account log in per week...has gone up...by 1...in a year?

But with 30ish new accounts EVERY WEEK...that could be a HELL of a lot higher. What is happening to all these players? Are any of them even making it into the game? I think improving retention would be really valuable, to increase the playerbase a little quicker...the turnover here is also quite high. I'm mostly thinking about the poor off peakers! They need more buddies!

[Archbaron]

How did Gimfalisette get Ender's forum account?

[IntuitiveApathy]

How did Gimfalisette get Ender's forum account?

How did you read my mind?

[Nyr]

FYI, there is a subforum specifically for publicity efforts.  If these kinds of statistics interest you and you are also interested in doing more than talking about them (and instead would like to help augment them), please see this thread to see how you can contribute.

[Ender]

The average unique account log in per week...has gone up...by 1...in a year?

But with 30ish new accounts EVERY WEEK...that could be a HELL of a lot higher. What is happening to all these players? Are any of them even making it into the game? I think improving retention would be really valuable, to increase the playerbase a little quicker...the turnover here is also quite high. I'm mostly thinking about the poor off peakers! They need more buddies!

Well, that's drawing a conclusion without all the data.  We get a ton of new accounts every week, but we don't know how many existing accounts didn't log on in a particular week.  The new players that retain are more or less outbalancing the older players that leave it seems.

I know an average of only 1 more player a week seems low, but considering that Arm is a 20 year old game the fact that it's continuing to grow is amazing for a number of reasons.

[number13]

But with 30ish new accounts EVERY WEEK...that could be a HELL of a lot higher. What is happening to all these players?

My guess is the same thing happens to them that happened to me when I first logged on (way, way, way long ago):

"Oh freaking awesome! This is exactly what I've been looking for...."

"Character approval, pain the ass.  But it's got to be worth it."

*waits 48 hours (things were a little slower, once upon a time)* *logs in*

"WTF? Where is everyone? There's this one guy trying to talk to me, and everything he says is flippin' weird."

*logs off for 4 years*

The 'where is everyone' problem is solvable, but it requires that the majority of the playerbase gets smooshed into a smaller area, so that someone logging in at random is far more likely to actually see activity.  Also, it could be helpful to ensure that player activities are actually going on in the area surrounding the first-time log in spot.

Taking Allanak's starting room, for example, it should place players into a hub, where if you a guy looking in all the directions is going to see:

1: The Gaj
2: A fancier place for nobles/merchants
3: an in-game read only board providing directions to various places, along with documentation for handling important social concerns (like bowing to templars, and distrusting elves)
4: a simple store providing weapons, simple gear, food, filled waterskins, maybe cures.
5: a sparring pit
6: a general crafting area (that could provide bonuses of some sort or rentable lockers nearby to give incentive to PC crafters actually doing their thing there.)

Within Allanak, a player should be able to type a command to speedwalk his way back to the hub.

The biggest shame of Arm.2 never materializing is that we're probably stuck with the old city layouts, which are not good at providing a good experience to the first time player, nor a guaranteed social hub for long time players to find interaction.

[Patuk]

The biggest shame of Arm.2 never materializing is that we're probably stuck with the old city layouts, which are not good at providing a good experience to the first time player, nor a guaranteed social hub for long time players to find interaction.

Challenge accepted.

Kidding, mostly. But still.. I do agree that there's an awfully high amount of things that could go wrong for anyone new to the game.

[solera]

What held you the second time you logged in, 13 ?

[Malken]

Gee, the only thing that I found wrong with Armageddon when I first started playing it was that I couldn't speak a word of English beside the very basic usual words ;p

Le monsieur elf wearing a beret stands here, twirling his mustache.

[Barsook]

Within Allanak, a player should be able to type a command to speedwalk his way back to the hub.

Or do it from The Hall.

[number13]

What held you the second time you logged in, 13 ?

Epic levels of boredom, and for my second try, I just happened to log in when the Gaj was busy.

[jstorrie]

The biggest shame of Arm.2 never materializing is that we're probably stuck with the old city layouts, which are not good at providing a good experience to the first time player, nor a guaranteed social hub for long time players to find interaction.

Be a noble PC interested in city planning and be the change you want to see in the world!

[Morgenes]

From my analysis of new accounts and comparing with logs, most don't make it past character creation.  They'll create an account and soon as they see more than that they bail out and don't come back.

[Delusion]

From my analysis of new accounts and comparing with logs, most don't make it past character creation.  They'll create an account and soon as they see more than that they bail out and don't come back.

Browser-based character creation may help somewhat.

I'd also suggest that an option for heavily 'assisted' character creation - down to the point of automatically generating descriptions, horrid as that may be - would increase the numbers getting past character creation. Writing half-decent mdescs is probably pretty daunting to a lot of people.

[AmandaGreathouse]

If you guys want to use my generators or something like that or based on them for something like that, or really any reason, please feel free. Especially if it retains players. That's definitely a worthy cause. You could offer something like 'roll me' option that is just for new accounts or something, taking gender and guild choices into account to roll all of it from guild to background or as little as you want I guess? I dunno.

[Wug]

If you guys want to use my generators or something like that or based on them for something like that, or really any reason, please feel free. Especially if it retains players. That's definitely a worthy cause. You could offer something like 'roll me' option that is just for new accounts or something, taking gender and guild choices into account to roll all of it from guild to background or as little as you want I guess? I dunno.

I've used your character generator before when rewriting a new player's description.

[WWYD]

From my analysis of new accounts and comparing with logs, most don't make it past character creation.  They'll create an account and soon as they see more than that they bail out and don't come back.

Has staff ever considered an in-game helper chat to supplement the Comm100 one we already have? I think retention might go up if new players were, immediately after making their account, smacked with a "hey, press H to talk to a veteran player! They'll explain the game to you and answer questions!". What I picture happening right now is someone makes their account, opens character creation, then gets to their descriptions annnnnnd they're gone. I could be completely wrong, but if I'm not, it just makes sense to expose them to someone's enthusiasm straight away.

That's how I've gotten people to play in the past, and how I got dragged into the game in the first place.

[AmandaGreathouse]

I honestly think that the suggestion about putting helper chat in game would be very helpful. Our roommate, for instance, is interested in playing and into roleplaying, a lot, but new to muds, and has tried to play but gotten frustrated over and over with syntax, for one example, and so isn't playing. If it was as easy as asking without going to multiple sources, I think people like him would be much more likely to stick around.

Also: Thanks Wug. Warm fuzzies. Warm fuzzies.

[musashi]

I dunno. Helpers never help me with anything ... they don't even know where to buy lantern oil >_>

[Maso]

I -totally- think a browser based character application form would help A LOT. As well as the random generator for new accounts (and only new accounts) to help get them into the game a little more smoothly.

I suppose, the flip side would be that it would make it easier for douchbags to get in and be idiots. I dunno.

It would just be nice to make it easier for potentially good players who might be getting put off (and before you say it - just because they are easily intimidated or too lazy to put hours of investment into a game they haven't even played yet does not mean they wouldn't be awesome Arm'ers once they got the hang of it).

[hyzhenhok]

In-game helper chat and automatic character generation sounds ballin'.

[musashi]

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment ... do you guys know about some of the applications staff receives for characters? The huge winged demon (human assassin), so on and so forth.

The application process might be a little bit of a pain but it also acts as a filter to basically make sure the person app'ing in is even interested in role playing before we turn them loose on the game.

I am a little leery of doing away with that and letting anyone and everyone automatically skate through character generation and get approved without at least first making sure they realize this is not a hack and slash and they should not go attack the first mob they come across.

[Eurynomos]

I'm more than a little leery of any sort of automatic generator for character descriptions. It would, inevitably, make our jobs more difficult, as we try to decipher who is real or not, and who is trying to play the game in earnest but just needs a nudge in the right direction, and who is an absolute complete newb and needs a lot of hand holding. A lot of that, believe it or not, is determined at character creation.

Our player base is not only remaining stable, but growing in small increments. It means we must be doing something right.

[My 2 sids]

Player creation has two parts though:  the actual PC being created, then there is the actual character creation page.  Especially for someone who is new to online mudding - just figuring out how to format can be a bit confusing.

[Maso]

Browser based creation then. And examples! Like...lets have some example backgrounds and descriptions for a variety of races, locations and guilds for new players to reference. Or full character examples. Give people a clear idea as to the standard expected, but also help inspire them a little at the same time.

[Nyr]

We have room to make improvements.

We also must consider the far end of the scale, even if we don't wish to do so.  The good point is that if we make it easier for players to get into this game, there will undoubtedly be some out there that will be hooked into the game, the plots, the interaction...people that would otherwise not have chosen to play because of the slightly more intimidating process of approval and wait times to get in post-submission. 

The unfortunate reality is that if we make it tremendously easy--to the point that any new player can make a character without thinking, without typing more than a few letters...it will be good for the new players that try.  However, we would have no way of identifying the player's aptitude or their own drive to play the game according to the rules.  Automated applications to this extent would mean that we have no idea what we're getting.  We do assist players with their applications, yes, if it is feasible.  Oh, it's three lines and it's an okay description?  I'll write in an extra line for them.  Oh, they used "boy" or "girl?"  I'll change that for them.  Oh, their background is that they're a noble city-elf from a rich king's family?  I'll change that for them and tell them why, and direct them to helpers.

We see that and we identify it and we know in advance that these sorts of players need to be watched.  We generally expect that if they do play, they may possibly seek out a helper, and our relatively friendly (on an OOC front) playerbase will be able to identify if these people are absolute noobcakes and either need direct player assistance or even as much as staff assistance.

Then there are players that submit applications that are like "the bigass dued with spked hare" with a one-line, typo-ridden description about muscles and a cloak and being an assassin, and no background. Are we helping this player by writing up a description for him in addition to a background?  I tend to think not.  They've demonstrated that they cannot follow or do not understand the directions.  They've demonstrated that they do not understand the gameworld.  They've demonstrated that they can't spell and can't use punctuation.  These are put into the rejection pile when I see them, and then they are directed to documentation about how to create a character, how the gameworld operates, how to talk to a helper, etc.  Those of us on staff are also pretty good at identifying multiplayers or OOC coordination from newbies based on the new apps coming in (a bunch of people that have never played the game before are in a family together?  odd, huh). 

Automating that aspect of the game needs to be considered more carefully.  There are things we can do to improve and ease the creation process, however.  We've already changed one of those things this year and saw a significant impact.  Additionally, we now have newbie areas.  That's a good thing.

[Maso]

Then there are players that submit applications that are like "the bigass dued with spked hare" with a one-line, typo-ridden description about muscles and a cloak and being an assassin, and no background.

This really happens? That's sad! But yeah, it's got to be a very fine balance. But personally, even now when I'm struggling or trying out a new race or start location, I often feel I could do with some generic examples just to give me a nudge in the right direction, or a bit of inspiration. I've just started keeping well written descriptions of other characters I see, of the rarer races, so that I can look back at them for inspiration in the future. But I reckon this would help new players a lot.

Newbie area is cool, I remember that being discussed way back. I might have to point it just to have a nosey!

[Delirium]

Here's an idea.

Write a generic 'example' description that new accounts see when they are writing up their first character.

It would be race-specific depending on which option they chose in character generation.

I volunteer to write them!

I realize there are examples on the site, but honestly they are woefully out of date and a bit difficult to find...

[Maso]

Here's an idea.

Write a generic 'example' description that new accounts see when they are writing up their first character.

It would be race-specific depending on which option they chose in character generation.

I volunteer to write them!

I realize there are examples on the site, but honestly they are woefully out of date and a bit difficult to find...

Yeah exactly! But I think backgrounds would be needed too...some how. Logistically I don't know because they would need to be location AND race based...but that's probably the most intimidating part. Most muds require descriptions, so this is something that some new players will already be familiar with (examples for the style of Arm would be good), but bio's...based on a world they have no experience with, with tons of cultural rules that are strikingly different from other fantasy based games....well that's scary.

And seriously, someone could have given me a hint when I app'd my first character, child of magick loving Tuluki's who liked to read. Guys. Where were you when I needed you?

[Nyr]

That's a good idea.  One that even breaks down why it's a good desc would be good, too...hmm...

[Marauder Moe]

For reference:
http://www.armageddon.org/intro/intro.html
http://www.armageddon.org/intro/descsamples.html

Not that an update/expansion (with backgrounds) wouldn't be a grand idea, though.

[Maso]

That's a good idea.  One that even breaks down why it's a good desc would be good, too...hmm...

I actually have something I want to dig out that I can send to you guys. You've probably seen it before. It's old...but it might be useful to help put together some kind of guide...wait...are you being sarcastic, I can't tell. Does this exist already?

[Maso]

I actually have a really good idea for this. If you weren't being sarcastic...let me put together a proposal/outline?

[Nyr]

I'm completely serious, it does sound like a good idea.

But I'm also serious that if you're wanting to contribute, you should be on the publicity subforum *nudge nudge*

[Maso]

I never really thought of it as publicity...but alright!

[number13]

The in-game editor was pretty snazzy for it's day, but is painfully dated in 2012.  I know it must a huge hassle to convert character creation to an entirely webpage based system (or else it would have already happened) but if most potential players stall out before the application process, I'd bet it's the #1 thing that could be done to drive new accounts into the actual game.

Not only would a webpage have a text editor that's about a billion times better, but it would be easier to link to examples and documentation right then and there.  A noble elf hailing from a forest-citadel couldn't be as frequent a thing if when selecting the race 'city elf' a text boxed explained the how the choice differs from the common conception of 'elf'.

Somewhat related, recently caught sight of the new Allanak starting room. It's really nice.

[Adhira]

Believe us, we'd like web based character creation too.  In fact I think that about 5 years ago Nessalin wrote up the preliminary stuff to get that working.  Unfortunately before it's doable there's a bunch of others things that needed to happen first. Like converting our masses of information into db.  Some of that work has been done.  This is the kind of work that takes a lot of time, that players never see, and that goes on while people are lamenting we never do things   This work has already resulted in history files and and help files being in snazzy new formats and tools that staff can use to update.

I cannot say we will be getting web based generation, but we are not ignorant of the fact that it would be nice to have and help a lot with new (and old!) player retention.

[Maso]

I have an idea!!

How about....a web based character creator?

Seriously...but not hooked up to the mud (yeah, us oldies find it a pain in the arse, but that's probably a bit less important than scaring off all the new players).

So it would basically be an editor that allowed players to put of all their info into a form (that allows them to see all of the options). Maybe have them tick their karma amount, have it adjust the options appropriately. Then depending on what they check for race, start location, guild etc will pop up with appropriate examples and tooltips.

Then they could 'finish' it to have it emailed to themselves, or just taken to a page that outlines their character and choices...that they can then easily copy into the in game form, now being really familiar with all the options and stuff.

I remember the first time I app'd a character...I had done a fair bit of reading (but it was late, I was tired, hence the magick loving Tuluki parents, or maybe I was trying to be edgy, I can't remember)..but when I went to actually app the character, I got thrown by the sdesc, weight, height and all this stuff I was just not expecting. I'm hardcore though. 

[FantasyWriter]

I'm completely serious, it does sound like a good idea.

But I'm also serious that if you're wanting to contribute, you should be on the publicity subforum *nudge nudge*

How about for the time being put a link to the description example pages in the character generation paragraph summarizing how to write a description, and add the "why this is a good desc" comments there on the linked page?

I have an idea!!

How about....a web based character creator?

Seriously...but not hooked up to the mud (yeah, us oldies find it a pain in the arse, but that's probably a bit less important than scaring off all the new players).

Like the one AmandaGreathouse created? It's pretty sweet, I have used it two or three times and made very few changes.
Everyone example I have seen there came out perfectly acceptable for Armageddon (IMO).

[Maso]

No no, not at all. Not something that automatically generates stuff. Something to hold a players hand through the creative process. And give them little hugs when they do stuff right.

[Zoan]

Maybe you guys could use Atonement MUD's character generator thing. The work is open-source now, so you'd be allowed to put it into the game so long as you acknowledge Kithrater.

[Maso]

But I'm also serious that if you're wanting to contribute, you should be on the publicity subforum *nudge nudge*

Well let me in then. :<

[evilcabbage]

If we go web based, I do implore you..

KEEP THE MUD SITE GENERATOR ACTIVE!

SOI switched to an entirely web-based application and it was actualy -more- of a pain for me to get a character generated (back when I used to play that game) than when it was MUDside.

I don't want to click a bunch of buttons, if I did that I would play more PC games. I want to click a bunch of keys, punch my character in MUDside, and BAM! He's in because of keystroke.

So, yes, implement the web-based stuff, but leave the MUDside stuff in too? Please? Pretty pretty please?

[Gilgamesh]

If we go web based, I do implore you..

KEEP THE MUD SITE GENERATOR ACTIVE!

SOI switched to an entirely web-based application and it was actualy -more- of a pain for me to get a character generated (back when I used to play that game) than when it was MUDside.

I don't want to click a bunch of buttons, if I did that I would play more PC games. I want to click a bunch of keys, punch my character in MUDside, and BAM! He's in because of keystroke.

So, yes, implement the web-based stuff, but leave the MUDside stuff in too? Please? Pretty pretty please?

The character application for SOI is a complete pain in the ass. It'd be nice to have an option for both the site and MUD applications, though.

[Dalmeth]

Maybe you guys could use Atonement MUD's character generator thing. The work is open-source now, so you'd be allowed to put it into the game so long as you acknowledge Kithrater.

The problem isn't the actual, functional system.  The problem is the gobs of data that the functional system has to work with.

They're not going to put it on the web just so they can say they put it on the web.  They'll want to make it something that actually expands on what they can currently do, and that requires extra work.