Making Wagons

[Bacon]

120 days of play seems like a ridiculously stupid amount of time to have to spend playing with a single character to get something like that done, imo.

[Bast]

It would be nice if we could make simple carts like:


or..



A simple wagon with no cover or one 'room' shouldn't be impossible to build. That said it would obvious depend on how much a pain in the ass it would be for staff to code them.

[Morgenes]

That is what Adhira said we were working on.  It got held up trying to resurrect the hitching of mounts to wagons, which we wanted to be prerequisite for having one of these. This is still in the list to get back to. 

[Bast]

I mean we are are not talking rocket science here...The 'wheel' has been around since 4000 BC that we -know- of. Simple wagons and carts where made by a number of cultures well before the bronze Age which is what 3600 B.C. on to around 600 B.C?

[BadSkeelz]

It sounds like there's a big CODE bottleneck concerning Wagons, unrelated to how simple or complex you think they would be for PCs to actually craft.

[Bast]

That is what Adhira said we were working on.  It got held up trying to resurrect the hitching of mounts to wagons, which we wanted to be prerequisite for having one of these. This is still in the list to get back to. 

Awesome! Sorry posted all that before I took a noticed what had been said. This is what I get for cooking dinner and trying to type at the same time.

[Kebron]

Does the same value's apply for skimmers? (the extensive need for VNPC master craftsmen, the need for a large "framework" or berth to construct them in, the sheer number of slaves going into the construction)

Or is it a situation where skimmers are somewhat easier to produce simply because they aren't multi-roomd monstrosities with full on armor.

You would think that a ship would be harder to create, but honestly skimmers don't have alot appearance wise in common with a conventional ship, and seeing as you sit on them instead of entering them would it be more feasable to create those?

[HavokBlue]

I wish we didn't have a bunch of unrealistic nonsense barriers in place that prevented PCs from changing the world or creating due to workload/staffing issues. I understand that there are concerns on the staff side of things like time/effort to code shit and whatnot but... it's really disheartening to see people either flat out told NOPE or that they need to spend hundreds and hundreds of hours working towards something they think is fun in a game.

Because let's be honest. Unless the intelligence of your average PC crafter = pants-on-head-retarded, he can probably spend some time looking over a wagon and draw the necessary conclusions in regards to how wheels and axles work, and that wheel + axles + somewhere to sit + something to pull it = mobile wagon! In a world where everything is made of wood and bone and chitin, I don't think it would be exceptionally hard for someone to bust out some wheels, poles, and a box, and it really seems like the difficulty of constructing shit like this is being blown way out of proportion.

edit: If wagons are truly as difficult to create ICly as staff make them out to be, it's a miracle that any form of developed civilization exists.

[kayza]

If i was a merchant house id make it impossible for an independant to build a wagon.

And your char was 120+ days0 played?
How is your situation the same at all.

[Bast]

Honestly the things you could with wagons opens up all sorts of cool options.
1) city states could start charging fees to park your wagon in there wagon yards where they -should- be harder to steal. Could base the fee's off the size of the wagon.
2) Stop a lot of complaining about why people can't build there own camps as well as the ever frequent (why are there not more/any apartments in Ceynr, Red Storm, Luir's. You could save up buy a wagon and live out of it in those places for whatever they want to charge you in 'rent' to park your wagon in their yards. Or take your wagon to an area in the middle of no where and risk having your ride jacked while your offline.
3) Raiding a wagon in route between cities would be a much tastier target than that guy on his inix across the desert. This means more raiders (possibly) but also more contracts for groups like the Byn for escorts.

Thats just off the top of my head. This is something I have wanted to see in Arm FOREVER. Sorry it gets me all excited.

[Erythil]

Working in the GMH that makes wagons, it was my understanding that wagons are not made ever, and that this was done to preserve game balance, due to wagons effectively being invincible.

But maybe that's changed.

[Dakota]

I was in a wagon that was destroyed once. Was pretty awesome.

[drunkendwarf]

If i was a merchant house id make it impossible for an independant to build a wagon.

All the more reason to allow independents to build wagons. Were I an independent building a wagon, I would welcome your attempt to thwart me. *Fun would be had by all.

*Fun may result in blood and death

[Kismetic]

Because let's be honest. Unless the intelligence of your average PC crafter = pants-on-head-retarded, he can probably spend some time looking over a wagon and draw the necessary conclusions in regards to how wheels and axles work, and that wheel + axles + somewhere to sit + something to pull it = mobile wagon!

I bet it would be hard to make a spoked wheel out of wood.

It (edit:  the hitch mounts to small wagons/cart thing) would be a good addition to the game, though.  More goods could travel.  More merchants to raid.

Not sure how you'd handle security when you're away from it without buying random guard #531 from the guard store.

[Riya OniSenshi]

I bet it would be hard to make a spoked wheel out of wood.

Sham-wow... Someone needs to scroll up and look at the pictures Bast posted...

[Delirium]

I once paid 80k in-game for an entirely virtual wagon... but that was for a clan. I guess it wouldn't do indies much good.

As I understand it, it's a pain in the ass to create actual wagon objects unless re-purposing another already-existing wagon object.

So uh... steal, and/or break, someone else's wagon, and rebuild it? Better, faster, stronger?

p.s. It was a lot of fun trying to drag all that money from the IC hidey-hole to the bank. It took 8 bags and 2 inix...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Besides the single mount carts projected for inclusion in the game at some point, I would like to see handcarts craftable as well, using the wagon skill. There are several NPCs in game with handcarts. I couldn't see how these would be too hard to create from staff side, actually. The one trick would be to make the object, which by virtue of being too heavy would be included in room descriptions, keep the stamina usage toned down. The item type would be container, and of course you'd be able to look into it and take form it and put into it.

Code Select Expand

The dark man stands here, dragging a battered handcart.

[Gunnerblaster]

You can buy the following:
A erdlu for 300 coins.
A war beetle for 450 coins.
An inix for 600 coins.
A black inix for 800 coins.
A small, single-room wagon drawn by chalton for 1600 coins.
A medium, single-room wagon drawn by inix for 3500 coins. [Different tiring rates - Wagons treated as mounts]

Make the cheap wagons destructible, like tents. Make them have stamina, like mounts. Make the cheap wagons -like- mounted tents (if that makes sense).

>mount wagon
You jump into a wagon's piloting seat and raise the boarding ramp.

While in this 'mode', a wagon cannot be entered - And only moved. Can be attacked and destroyed.

>rest wagon
You jump down from a wagon's piloting seat and lower the boarding ramp.

While in this 'mode', a wagon can be entered - But not moved. Can be attacked and destroyed. If destroyed, everything falls out of the wagon and onto the ground - Like when you >junk a container.

Like a tent, the wagons transition from one type of item to another.

With tents, they transition from their rolled-up items to a room.

With wagons, they transition from a mount to a room.

Is this even plausible or am I just fucking insane?

Edited to add after-thoughts:
Eh. A problem I see already is how to 'save' items in the wagon once it transitions from a mount-like object to a building room and vice-verse. Maybe make it so that you have to take items out of a wagon when it is in it's mobile form - But you can 'pack' items onto it. Wagon won't let you go into mobile mode if there are items detected within and the wagon won't let you go into stationary mode if it detects items 'packed' onto it?

This way, it requires a bit of effort to own a wagon. Unpack wagon, rest wagon, enter wagon, drop items and set up shop. Gotta go? You have to drag everything out of the wagon first, switch the wagon into mobile mode (by mounting it and dismounting without resting it), pack the items (if they are packable containers) onto the wagon (which should have a large capacity for carrying items).

Commands for wagons are same for mounts, just with varying effects:
>Mount Wagon = Wagon switches to 'mobile' mode and is no longer an enterable room.

>Dismount Wagon = Wagon remains in 'mobile' mode and is still unenterable.

>Rest Wagon = Wagon switches to 'stationary' mode and becomes enterable room.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

To make the building less tiring, the best short description for a mount/wagon is "a mount drawing a wagon". This is so that every current NPC action fits with the wording.

A mount drawing a wagon lies down to rest.

You hop up onto a ... oh, well, that'd have to be reworded.

A mount drawing a wagon walks north.

A mount drawing a wagon pinches you very hard on the head.

You pack a large blue bag on a mount d ... reworded.

That said, aside from the rewording, mount NPCs written as wagons honestly are the swiftest way to have these in game, and furthermore, the most realistic in terms of real safety. The one drawback is the inability to have multiple riders. Finally, the wording could be swiftly changed simply by adding a flag_wagon to the NPC, and adding sections in the code for mounting messages to check for that flag.

A hulking, crimson-scaled ratlon drawing a dark baobab-wood chariot stands here, looking tired.

[HavokBlue]

Because let's be honest. Unless the intelligence of your average PC crafter = pants-on-head-retarded, he can probably spend some time looking over a wagon and draw the necessary conclusions in regards to how wheels and axles work, and that wheel + axles + somewhere to sit + something to pull it = mobile wagon!

I bet it would be hard to make a spoked wheel out of wood.

It (edit:  the hitch mounts to small wagons/cart thing) would be a good addition to the game, though.  More goods could travel.  More merchants to raid.

Not sure how you'd handle security when you're away from it without buying random guard #531 from the guard store.

Spoked wheels made of wood are relatively easy to make, like Bast showed. You could always opt for non-spoked wheels as well.

[Kankfly]

Know what?

I was just thinking of what Bast said, a small craftable cart that cannot be entered by NPCs or PCs. In fact, it can't be entered at all. It will just be a place where you can put things in (like a container), is hitched to a single mount (depending on how big the cart is), and is mobile.

So you'll be able to hitch cart to inix/erdlu/beetle/ox, hitch mount, ride mount etc. And you have a bigger space where you can put things in.

For independent traders or grebbers or even GMH employees out to collect resources.

Of course, making it will have to cost time and sids, but it will be noticeably take less time (since it'll just be a simple cart), and cost less.

Just an idea.

[BleakOne]

Could you have wagons simply coded as mounts which cannot be ridden upon? Just hitch them to yourself for a handcart, or hitch them to yourself and ride a living (non-hitched) mount for a animal-drawn cart? They'd have a huge strength level to hold stuff, no combat ability, and no stamina needs.

Probably difficult to code the stamina stuff, but otherwise it would make use of existing code.

[HavokBlue]

Could you have wagons simply coded as mounts which cannot be ridden upon? Just hitch them to yourself for a handcart, or hitch them to yourself and ride a living (non-hitched) mount for a animal-drawn cart? They'd have a huge strength level to hold stuff, no combat ability, and no stamina needs.

Probably difficult to code the stamina stuff, but otherwise it would make use of existing code.

The problem with that is:

kill cart

A painted, baobab handcart dodges out of the way.
A painted, baobab handcart dodges out of the way.
You bludgeon a cart on the axle, doing tremendous damage!
A painted, baobab handcart reels from the blow!

[FantasyWriter]

Could you have wagons simply coded as mounts which cannot be ridden upon? Just hitch them to yourself for a handcart, or hitch them to yourself and ride a living (non-hitched) mount for a animal-drawn cart? They'd have a huge strength level to hold stuff, no combat ability, and no stamina needs.

Probably difficult to code the stamina stuff, but otherwise it would make use of existing code.

The problem with that is:

kill cart

A painted, baobab handcart dodges out of the way.
A painted, baobab handcart dodges out of the way.
You bludgeon a cart on the axle, doing tremendous damage!
A painted, baobab handcart reels from the blow!

The handcartNPC's agility would be super low, probably.

Edit: Nope, then it couldn't hold many items, or so I assume.

[MeTekillot]

Make them like tents that can be broken. Make them like mounts that you can pack things on them.