Changing the World

[Nyr]

It's unfortunate that a lot of the cool things people seem to have done in the past with staff support now require you to play Arm like a part-time job to accomplish an approximation of the same thing.

citation needed

[Schrodingers Cat]

It's unfortunate that a lot of the cool things people seem to have done in the past with staff support now require you to play Arm like a part-time job to accomplish an approximation of the same thing.

When staff say you need to really work for something, they aren't joking.

[edited to add]
But to be fair many of those cool things in the past probably required a lot of work too.

[Kieandatu]

It's unfortunate that a lot of the cool things people seem to have done in the past with staff support now require you to play Arm like a part-time job to accomplish an approximation of the same thing.

citation needed

Thats just unfair, Nyr, because you know damn well if anyone had any -real- citation, it would be likely breaking the rules of OOC communication. I believe this is what Sean Connery calls ENTRAPMENT.

Though Havok is right. Its very rare that your commoner PC, who has been around for a RL year but is only 5days played, is going to get -anything- done because they simply "Don't have the backing for it."

[HavokBlue]

It's unfortunate that a lot of the cool things people seem to have done in the past with staff support now require you to play Arm like a part-time job to accomplish an approximation of the same thing.

citation needed

I don't know if anyone has had an in-game experience similar to FW's post but it seems pretty obvious it would require some massive playtimes.

Start small, and work your way up.
Wise man say, journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Setting smaller goals, increasingly difficult as they progress along the way to your endgame helps you see some results of your labor and strife as well as show others you are willing to work for what you want rather than have it handed to you.

Staffs says, no, you can't have a wagon? So.... staff answer has nothing to do with whether or not your character works toward his goals.... make or have you made some wheeles, work for Kurac or get in REALLY good with them start doing mounted caravans and hire the guards and labourers you will need to get it done. After you have done all the work you can, either staff changes their mind on their previous answer based on seeing that you were willing to go the extra mile, or who cares? You're doing what you wanted to do in the first place, you just don't have a custom item to show for it, but you don't -need- it, you are already getting it done.

You know you aren't going to get a GDB clan board/IG real estate or anything else for your multi-tasking merc/grebber/hunting clan? So?
Hire, hire hire, until you get a good crew of four or five PCs that are going to stick around... do your work, do it well, put the byn to shame, pick out the smallest apartment building in your city and rent the whole damn thing out one room to a person if that is what it takes... beat the living shit out of anyone you ever see in there who is not one of your own, get in with a Templar good enough that you know s/he'll lean on the landlord if they try kicking you out, and hell, maybe even confiscate the building for you eventually.

Basically... do EVERYTHING you can toward a goal, letting staff know along the way, rather than asking for things form them up front. There is an IG and IC work around to nearly every OOC stumbling block you will face on your way to "winning" for your PC that is neither twinky or abusive. Good luck and full speed ahead, world shakers.

[FantasyWriter]

An active leader doesn't have a massive weekly play time.  I would say... ten to fifteen hours a week is doable.
The most important think is to use your online time wisely. Be sure to try and hit up all your contacts at least once a week, minions two or three.
If you can't find them all during your lump play times, log in a few more times a week, just to go through your contact list, concentrating on the ones you don't speak to regularly.

Being a good leader/plotmover is more about staying active long term, keeping everyone busy/interested in your project, and showing passion (positive or negative) about your goals than devoting huge chunks of idle time waiting on things to happen. When the people you depend on and depend on you see you IG they need to see you working and pushing for your dreams, overtly or subtly.  They don't need to see you sitting around on your bum complaining about things not happening fast enough.  They need to see you MAKING them happen, or at least putting on a good show of it.

[Delirium]

10-15 hours a week is a part time job, buddy.

Anyway, I don't understand this fixation on CHANGING ZE WORLD. I've had plenty of fun and I've never made it anywhere near the history docs.

We could use a paradigm shift toward less focus on winning, and more focus on storytelling, in my opinion.

[Kieandatu]

We could use a paradigm shift toward less focus on winning, and more focus on storytelling, in my opinion

I would submit that, in recent years, we actually HAVE done this. With alterations to the combat code, and more focus on PC plots and mastercrafted creations, there is less a focus on "I will rival Tektolnes" and more of a "I just want to survive, while grinding my skills, so when I die it can be epic."

But there needs to be a focus on "winning" at some point, because if we all just get in to tell a story, this may as well be a MUSH, with no coded ability to do anything. Some people play Arm because we are writers. Others of us are Storytellers, and Dungeon Masters. Some of us just want to escape into a life that isn't our regular, shitty one. Some of us revel in being a great RPer and giving other people a great story to tell others.

I love your entire face, Delerium, but "focus less on winning, and more on storytelling" is here.

[Barsook]

We could use a paradigm shift toward less focus on winning, and more focus on storytelling, in my opinion

Can I siggy this?

[Ktavialt]

I play Arm to accomplish something.  Usually I'm a magicker-nerd that wants to be a kick ass Whiran/Sorc/what have you, but I think I've had mundane wants before too.  I think the flipside is that the staff needs to have some consistency and not be the bitch of any random number of players that think they should be able to do something like kill 100 gortok and exterminate the species, then wonder why it isn't happening.

I'm having trouble getting back into the game because I had a great degree of awesomeness before, and now I'm not sure I wanna try again because I don't think I'll be able to match it

I'm probably not the most liked type of player from the staff perspective, though certainly not hated by any means, but oh well, the "in it to win it mentality" is what it is, and at least I emote well.

That's pretty random but I wanted to do a little support on Kieandatu's post because heck some of us don't wanna play a MUSH.

[Delirium]

Good points, and part of the strength of ArmageddonMUD is that it does cater to all types of players.

I don't have a solution to offer that strikes a better balance than currently exists between the needs of gameworld stability, staff time, and player input, though.

[Kismetic]

I was part of a long running plot about exterminating a species, and I think the only thing I ever told staff was "Hey, we've codedly killed around two thousand of these as a group, just letting you know."  I don't think I ever once demanded that shit happen for me, but I did notice some changes.  I can't say I'm really bummed that it was never completed, but it would've been cool.  I just played my PC, though, as realistically as possible.  I've been historically terrible at communicating with staff, and I'm trying to amend that, but I have to wonder if it would've helped.

[Nyr]

It's unfortunate that a lot of the cool things people seem to have done in the past with staff support now require you to play Arm like a part-time job to accomplish an approximation of the same thing.

citation needed

I don't know if anyone has had an in-game experience similar to FW's post but it seems pretty obvious it would require some massive playtimes.

I should've been more specific.  Yes, FW's post indicates that it would take some time and effort to do things, and yeah, I agree with folks saying it's probably about as much as a part-time job if you look at it that way.  However,  your post implies that you think that the stuff people did before with staff support somehow requires more out of you now than it ever did then.  That's what I'm calling attention to, and my response?

No.

It was a part-time job then, too!

You do have to put in a certain amount of regular playtime in many cases to do many things (mostly because many things require other PCs, and you can't really involve other PCs if you aren't around in a minimum capacity to move things along).  You also do have to expect certain things to take a bare minimum of time to evolve.  I can't really be more specific than that because many situations are different, but there it is.

[FantasyWriter]

Anyway, I don't understand this fixation on CHANGING ZE WORLD. I've had plenty of fun and I've never made it anywhere near the history docs.

One major reason many players were exiting about Armageddon Reborn was that the world was going to be much less static. The powers that be were not going to be omnipotent God Kings that could level a whole tribe in one overhead pass or make a whole region's varied peoples give up their former lives to join him happily in a big hippy commune. There would not be as many established clans, village were going to be 'conquerable' and 'destroyable' (which would imply re/ buildable over time), there were going to be news areas to explore (i seem to remember hearing a teaser somewhere about one there might be ruins present of one of the two current City States).  We were going to be able to build farms, herd and raise livestock, plant plants, weep as our crops withered. Such a fluid world was, in my opinion going to seem much more alive.

Not having that to look forward to now, many of us were hoping that things would partly go back to the way they were before building was stopped on the old game (the Sanvean Staff announcement that seems to have disappeared). Building is back yes, but on a (from what I gather since the announcement was either before my time or before I ever got on the GDB)  much more limited scale. Many of the desert tribes that we have and have had in the past were player created, but that isn't something that can happen anymore.  You can't build up a merchant house because the big four would squash your heads before you even got close.  Both of the city states have a "crime-lord" clan or two that do the same in that area.  The establishments are all to powerful to change things inside the cities, the same with outside the cities having to deal with the cities and tribes, though as recent history shows, the tribes are certainly... disposable with enough work, but would they be replaced with something fresh, or simply be struck up as a 'yippee' for player consolidation?

Am I saying this is a bad thing? No, I love Armageddon, there is very little that I would change about it if I could, but sometimes it just feel's stagnant.  Not all of us are happy playing one clanny/social/indie merchant/gemmer PC after another in one of the city states (though my favorite three PCs that I've played fit into one or more of those categories), or limited to the flavor of two elven and two and a half human tribes outside the walls.

[FantasyWriter]

10-15 hours a week is a part time job, buddy.

True. I was thinking more along the lines of if you don't have 1.4 hours a day average to devote to something (no offense meant WHATSOEVER to anyone who doesn't/can't play that much) should you expect to make a great impact within it? I for one would not apply for a leader role if I didn't think I had ten hours a week to spend on it.  I would be more frustrated with not having enough time to socialize, plot, and scheme than I would enjoy the role, I think.  That's just me, though. We all play differently.

[Nyr]

Not having that to look forward to now, many of us were hoping that things would partly go back to the way they were before building was stopped on the old game (the Sanvean Staff announcement that seems to have disappeared).

There was (at best) a 2 year moratorium on new building for the old game shortly after the announcement of Arm 2.  As evidenced by the myriad of plots going on, this didn't extend to the myriad of plots going on, which had things built for them.  2 years later, the moratorium was lifted.  Stuff has been built quite regularly.

Building is back yes, but on a (from what I gather since the announcement was either before my time or before I ever got on the GDB)  much more limited scale.

You probably mean this post.  And that doesn't even apply now, so no idea where you're going with this or why you think this.

Many of the desert tribes that we have and have had in the past were player created, but that isn't something that can happen anymore.

Not allowing desert tribes to be player-created was something that changed before Arm 2.  Not sure where you're going with this one, either.  Players made some tribes and we decided at some point to not let them do that with desert elves anymore. 

You can't build up a merchant house because the big four would squash your heads before you even got close.

A previous post in this thread have some advice towards that end, actually.  The whole post is good, but this part is the best I think.  You do have to start somewhere!

Start small, and work your way up.
Wise man say, journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

The next section is really important if this is your goal, too.  You have the end goal of making your own merchant house, so:

Setting smaller goals, increasingly difficult as they progress along the way to your endgame helps you see some results of your labor and strife as well as show others you are willing to work for what you want rather than have it handed to you.

Now, how do you go about that?  Well, here's an example as well--I'll edit it a little to be specific to the situation.

You know you aren't going to get a GDB clan board/IG real estate or anything else for your burgeoning, small-time merchant house start-up? So?
Hire, hire hire, until you get a good crew of four or five PCs that are going to stick around... do your work, do it well, put the GMH PCs to shame, pick out the smallest apartment building in your city and rent the whole damn thing out one room to a person if that is what it takes... beat the living shit out of anyone you ever see in there who is not one of your own, get in with a Templar good enough that you know s/he'll lean on the landlord if they try kicking you out, and hell, maybe even confiscate the building for you eventually.

Now, note that the landlord is Nenyuki and that just because you've rented all available apartments in an apartment building, it doesn't mean you've rented all virtual apartments in it...that's how that works.  But overall it's not bad advice, right?

Both of the city states have a "crime-lord" clan or two that do the same in that area.

Yes, perhaps so.

The establishments are all to powerful to change things inside the cities, the same with outside the cities having to deal with the cities and tribes, though as recent history shows, the tribes are certainly... disposable with enough work, but would they be replaced with something fresh, or simply be struck up as a 'yippee' for player consolidation?

Some goals might be difficult to the point of being nigh-impossible, so why try?  Sheesh, you should talk to the poster I was referring to above.  That guy can get you out of this slump! 

As for the last bit, I suppose you'll find out over time.

[FantasyWriter]

Hahaha, touche.
I should have stuck with the first paragraph as the answer to Delerium's question.
The rest was more me running off at the mouth at 5:AM after a twelve hour shift on things that have been beat to death  in this thread.

One major reason many players were exiting about Armageddon Reborn was that the world was going to be much less static. The powers that be were not going to be omnipotent God Kings that could level a whole tribe in one overhead pass or make a whole region's varied peoples give up their former lives to join him happily in a big hippy commune. There would not be as many established clans, village were going to be 'conquerable' and 'destroyable' (which would imply re/ buildable over time), there were going to be news areas to explore (i seem to remember hearing a teaser somewhere about one there might be ruins present of one of the two current City States).  We were going to be able to build farms, herd and raise livestock, plant plants, weep as our crops withered. Such a fluid world was, in my opinion going to seem much more alive.

[Kebron]

This is a great thread, lots of great advice I mean really great advice. Gives me some ideas.