Too much Chatter? or EVERYBODY SHUT THE HELL UP!

[EvilRoeSlade]

Today I get to the GDB, and click on the link to search for posts I haven't read yet.  I get three from Code Discussion, two from Role Play discussion, two from Newbie Help, one from Ask the staff, and twelve, yes twelve, from Idle OOC Chatter.

My wish for the GDB is that the majority of the posts be on the topic of the game, even if that means there are less posts overall.  Of course, I haven't exactly refrained from posting in that forum myself, and if anything, I'm helping the cause of the epedemic rather than helping the solution.  I don't mind OOC chatter in limited doses, and truth be told I do click on the OOC posts to see if I can find anything amusing or informative.  Most of the time I find neither.

I liked the old GDB better.  It has nothing to do with the features or layout.  The reason I like the old GDB is because OOC chatter was tolerated, but not expressly condoned.  For that reason there were fewer posts off the topic of the game (even though these posts were still allowed) and after reading them, I wouldn't even notice as I moved on to a post that actually began a discussion about the game.

So here is my suggestion.  We don't need so many freaking forums.  Doesn't General discussion encompass RP discussion and code discussion?

I say we cut it down to General Discussion, Help!  I'm a Newbie, Ask the Staff, and Announcements.  Thats all.

So yeah.  No lengthy conclusion, because I suck at conclusions.  Bye.

By the way, I miss Da Mitey Warrior.  He was my hero, but apparently the new GDB scared him away.  Either that, or he changed his name to Rindan, a possibility I've recently begun to muse on.

[Anonymous]

Far be it for me to point out the obvious, but if you think the OOC forum is full of crap.... Why don't you just not read it?  Simply click on the ooc forum, then click on the bottom on the top that says, 'mark all as read'.  It will mark everything in the forum as read.  The beauty of the new board is that it makes sifting out the crap much easier.  If it is in the OOC chatter folder, it is probably crap.  No need to even skim it, just throw it away if you don't feel like going through it.  No one is making you read all the posts.

[Stroker]

What are you, a soviet communist or something? Let the people chatter if they want to.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Far be it for me to point out the obvious, but if you think the OOC forum is full of crap…. Why don’t you just not read it?  Simply click on the ooc forum, then click on the bottom on the top that says, ‘mark all as read’.  It will mark everything in the forum as read.  The beauty of the new board is that it makes sifting out the crap much easier.  If it is in the OOC chatter folder, it is probably crap.  No need to even skim it, just throw it away if you don’t feel like going through it.  No one is making you read all the posts.

Yes, I'm aware of that.  I didn't make this post simply because I don't like the OOC forum, but because I'd like the direction of the general discussion board to change.  I thought I made that clear, but apparently I didn't.  I will read the OOC forum as long as thats what everybody is posting in.  What am I saying?  I guess I wish people wouldn't post in it so much, but maybe I'm just too much of an idealist.

[Rindan]

I am fairly sure I am not Da Mitey Warrior.  Actually, when I first started playing I believe I used to post under l337 RP 5k1lz, or something like that.  After that I think it became Rugged Southern Mercenary, or something like that.  I am not sure any more.

As to the chatter, when I don't feel like going through all the posts that are posted, I just skip the OOC chatter form, long threads that have gone off into nowhere.  Once you cut out the OOC forum and the threads that are going nowhere, the you can take in the bored in more bitsized chunks.

[Carnage]

While we're at it, let's delete all of the top ten posters, too. I'm sick of seeing those jibber-jabber whores constantly posting. All they do is take up space. Also, can we delete the Silt Sea, Grey Forest, the Canyons of Waste, the Tablelands and the Salt Flats from the game? Those're just sitting there. It's not like too many people really have been doing anything in there. Who cares if some people are having fun there and I'm not?

The board is fun. Why does having a few extra forums bother you so much? I like having things separated categorically. That way I know what I'm getting into. Things are great as-is, although I think portions of the board are being moderated with a heavy hand. If space gets limited we can start moving more importantish posts to the archives and either put all the old posts into storage or start deleting them if they're x number of months old. I don't see that happening for a while now, though.

[Frog Fairy]

I too find that there are too many forums now.
I agree that it has become a bit... babbly.
I don't mind the OOC forum. But I do think that it was nice the way the GDB used to be, that people didn't really post unless they actually had something to add.
I'm not directing this at anyone in particular. But there does seem to be more... unstructured floating out of discussions now.
One reason for this impression is probably that the threads no longer have subthreads, so you have to browse through every post - including all the subchats derived from the original post - in search of an actual answer.

I agree with the suggestion of keeping only General Discussion, Help! I'm a Newbie, Ask the Staff, and Announcements. But I'd not at all mind if OOC stayed too.
RP and Code could very well go under General, I agree fully.

I want to stress though, that I think it was -excellent- that the new forum interface was introduced. The discussions had outgrown the old interface. But some fine adjustments would be spiffy!

[Tlaloc]

This has actually been something of a debate amongst the staff lately, particularly because forums such as 'Ask The Staff' effectively turned into 'Ask the Players, Again.'

While specific forums such as 'OOC Chatter' can be easily ignored, things like 'Genneral Discussions' or the RP forum are harder to avoid, and lately, the chatter on those has gone up dramatically. Additionally, lately I've been really surprised at the level of IC info that has been spread around on the boards (something Zhaira self-sacrificingly volunteered to keep an eye out for).

Personally, I think what is required is self-moderation. Try to keep the inane chatter to the Inane Chatter Board (OOC forum). The new GDB has created a neat feeling of community amongst the players - but try to keep the discussion on Topic, and seriously think about weather or not you're actually adding to the discussion, or if you're just adding a bit more information glut to get in the way, heh.

Its easy to get carried away, because we're all friends here. On the other hand, its easy to get bogged down in a quagmire of pages and pages of discussion. Think of it like littering: do your own part, by cleaning up after yourself.

[Krath]

Ditto with the Frog Fairy

[Carnage]

quagmire

All riiiiight!

[Tlaloc]

I suppose the other option is that we use the powers we have to Delete posts like that one, which dont' add anything to the discussion...but then that would make for 1) Non Open and Free Discussion, and 2) Very Cranky Immortals.

[creeper386]

If it helps any... I don't think I have posted for nearly a week... Damn socializing.


Creeper who hasn't even been able to log into the game and is probably terribly disapointing everyone he ran into.

[lukie]

Perhaps if people posted their stuff in the correct forums, like what Tlaloc said about the Ask The Staff forum, that would help a bit. I always figured Help! I'm a Newbie! was also for questions from people who aren't newbies. That's how it's supposed to be.

I do think it's nice, however, having the discussion forums seperate so that people can get a general idea of what's going on in the respective forum. And the new forum is nice in the respect that you feel more free to post your questions, responses, etc. as well as stuff that has nearly nothing to do with anything. (See three posts up.) I got a good laugh out of the quagmire thing. Sure it wasn't needed, but if we all stay dead serious here somebody's liable to go on a shooting rampage.

So, to sum it up:

OOC Forum is good for a laugh, and to prevent shooting rampages.

People need self-moderation like what Tlaloc said.

Hopefully you can understand the point I'm trying to get across. Right now my brain doesn't seem to be working that well. Lukie need coffee...

[Callisto]

I think this GDB is better for the game.

I like that people can bullshit in the middle of a serious discussion, I think that people being able to give each other a poke in the ribs and not have to worry about people taking it as some of personal attack is great. Well, some people still cling to that 'life is serious, respect my authority, fear the gods, stop poking me' thing as I recently found out, but for the most part people just seem to be a little more friendly and a little more laid back with this GDB.

I think this goes a long way to making your average newbie feel more inclined to stick around. I know I'm much more comfortable asking questions here then I was on the old GDB, just because it has a more friendly and enjoyable feel to it. I'm not as worried my question would make me sound like some ignorant newbie who gets snickered at by the elitists. The old GDB was nice and had a dependable layout, but all the charm of reading a science report on moth dung.

The multiple subject forums are a nice touch too, you know what you're going to encounter in each one and makes finding a place to post your question or idea much less stressful for the average newbie.

Its a better discussion board and I think the game and community are all the better for it. All in my opinion, of course.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I figure I should apologize... I've started at least three threads in the OOC Chatter Forum in the past week. I do so because I've been too busy to play the actual -game- recently, but I always manage to find five minutes to relax and enjoy some of Rindan's, Lukie's, Tony's, Tlaloc's, or AC's wisdom. The GDB is my Armageddon substitute... Like a nicotine patch for when you can't get your hands on a cigarrette.

I like to start threads. It's what I do. I find it interesting to exhume old topics and have them debated, or ask questions no one's thought of before. Normally I do things that I think might help new players (I figured starting a discussion on Homosexuality on Zalanthas would be more productive than OOCing in the game something like: Gay insults have no place in Arm, you stupid n00b!). I've been bullshitting in the OOC Forum recently because that's what it's there for... Bullshitting! I thought my Monkey and Religion polls went over fairly well, but if you don't like them... Don't read them!

I hope you'll accept my half-hearted apology. As for lumping the General Discussion, Roleplaying Discussion, or Code Discussion Forums... I personally like the the division there, but if it will somehow save room, then it's a worthy sacrifice. I think a better system might be to archive threads that haven't been replied to in X number of days, or something. But I'm not certain that'll help anyhting...

Anyways, as others have said, police yourself. But I'd really rather not loose the OOC Chatter Forum... It's just a nice place to post and make fun of upcoming movies and get to know other GDBers a little better. That's all.

[spawnloser]

You know what?  Yes, people post things to the wrong forums...for example, there's a post right now in the 'Ask the Staff' forum that I could answer, but I'm not going to.  Some people would get mad at me if I did...and some people are probably going to get mad at me since I'm not.  Honestly...I think that the ask the staff board is great, but anyone that has too much pride to call themselves a newbie is going to post every question in Ask the Staff, even if other players actually know the answer and could answer the question.  Hell, as far as I'm concerned, we don't need the General Discussion portion of the GDB...everything should be able to be lumped into the rest of the categories.

[Krath]

Down with the new, In with the old..I just remember being AFRAID to post anything stupid on the OLD GDB and NO BODY talked about game mechanics AT ALL, or things that would spoil the game for anyone..Weird how things change huh?

[Angela Christine]

You know what?  Yes, people post things to the wrong forums...for example, there's a post right now in the 'Ask the Staff' forum that I could answer, but I'm not going to.  Some people would get mad at me if I did...and some people are probably going to get mad at me since I'm not.  

I've been playing with a solution to this problem.  Sometimes I see a question in the AtS forum and I want to contribute so much that I nearly burst!  Now someone said it would be acceptable to ask a question twice, once in General Discusion and again in Ask the Staff, so as to get the broadest possible range of responses.  By that logic it would also be reasonable to post an answer in either forum, perhaps even if the question was not asked in both.

It works like this:  You copy the text you want to add to from the original thread, then start a new thread in the appropriate forum and paste in the text.

I haven't tried this with an ask the staff question, but I think it would work.  I did try it with something from the general board, when I wanted to make an off-topic comment but did not want to risk derailing the parent thread, because this board is really lousy at dealing with sub-threads.  A few people did reply to my sub-thread, but since it was in the chatter forum it didn't disrupt anything important.  I think it worked pretty well.  The danger is that the person you are replying to won't notice the sub-thread in the other forum, because they don't expect to see it there.  Nothing is perfect.


Did I mention that I liked the old GDB better?  I did.  However, with this system I think the chatter forum is useful, maybe even necessary.  It gives people a place to post silly stuff, which should cut down on the amount of silly stuff creeping into the main forums.  And it gives people something to do when they are bored, at work, waiting for a character approval, etc.  

AC

[creeper386]

Down with the new, In with the old..I just remember being AFRAID to post anything stupid on the OLD GDB and NO BODY talked about game mechanics AT ALL, or things that would spoil the game for anyone..Weird how things change huh?

Really? Personally I've seen little change besides the fact that more newer people post to the new GDB then they would with the old one.

I see the idle chatter more in one lumped area. Instead of in a bunch of sub threads to threads that are discussing things concerning the game and such. Everything alittle neater.

There is more posts... But I think thats dealing more with people being more familiar with this style of board then the old one.

[joke]You old schoolers just don't like it because the boards not containing just you 1337 01d 7||\/|3r5 or something.[/joke] :-p

Hmm... Yeah. Thats about it. Personally. I would have posted about the same on the old board as on the new... And I think there were too many people complaining that I, as a new player, was just posting too much on their board. So, either way it doesn't matter much. This board is alittle easier I think, deals not as good with sub threads... But doesn't have long subthreads of OOC in IC threads and different things like that.


Creeper

[Anonymous]

I concur with Krath.  I liked the old GDB more.

For some reason, maybe it was just the stars coming together, at the same time the new board came along I started seeing more and more posts that went past what would have been frowned on in the old GDB.

Case in point, my first post on the old GDB after getting an account was asking where I could get a merchant's token.  I had searched every shop, gone to a center of trade and an administrative building in Allanak.  Nothing.

I got told 'Ask around.'  'Find out IC.'  and 'You are close' by the old hard-nosed Templar.

In the end I benifited more from not being told on the GDB and having to ask around and actually talk to people.

For better or for worse, things are different now and I accept them and they aren't really that bad.  Maybe a little meaner.

Back to the topic at hand, however, I don't get the point.

Its a discussion board.  Right?  So, why get frustrated by the volume posts?  I'm assuming here that you are not forced to read the board so what does it matter if the list of new posts is a little long.  

The traffic on this board absolutely pales in comparison to a lot of boards out there, so I guess you should be happy about that.  We don't have to deal with bump posts because people's topics are getting knocked off the front page in an hour....

I could easily see removing the Ask the Staff forum if it's become an annoyance for the staff rather than a useful tool for making them approachable by players.  Many of the questions there would do fine in another forum, where the staff would have the option of answering if the educated guesses of other players don't come close enough to the mark.  The forum could always be left up in a read-only state, moving answered questions there as a sort of lazy man's FAQ.

[lukie]

I liked the old GDB in the respect that people really limited useless posts. However, the new one has one thing over the old one: it's not ONE BIG LONG PAGE! Plus it's shiny.

Also, you could just change the name of "Ask the Staff" to "Ask People" or something. And then if people want to ask just the staff, put "Staff Question: Blah blah blah" in the title. Either that or people can just swallow their pride and post in the Newbie forum. Or, you could also make a new forum, called "Ask People" or whatever.

[Delirium]

I vote for changing the name of the 'Help, I'm a Newbie' forums to "Ask the Players".

[lukie]

Me too.

(Why didn't I think of that?)

[Rindan]

I don't think that changing the names of the forums or lessing the number of forums is going to have any effect at all on how many things are posted.  People don't look at the forums and decide they need to post one to each topic.  They decide they are going to post a question/comment, and throw it into the forum that it fits most closely.  I personally like this a lot.  It means that if I am in a hurry I can just skim the forums most likely to contain stuff I care about.  I can skip the OOC forum, read the RP forum, and skim everything else.  It saves me time having stuff broken down into categories, and I am fairly positive has absolutely no effect on the actual volume of posts.

The only forum that could be removed and have it effect how much traffic goes on is the OOC forum.  Taking out the OOC forum would be a big mistake in my opinion.  The OOC forum helps keep the stuff with no relevance out of the other forums.  I don't have any problem clicking 'mark all as read' to the OOC forum if I don't have the time to go over every post.  Remove this forum and traffic probably will drop a little.  However, it will also result in a lot more off topics comments elsewhere.

I think the best things that could be done is to first lock the ask the staff forum whenever a staff member sees a thread go up.  That will cut down on a lot of chatter that imms need to read.  Second, really encourage off topic stuff to go to the OOC forum.  Maybe even lock forums that start going off into mindless banter.  If people want to start up the same conversation, fine, just start a new post.

Whatever the case, I truly fail to see how lessening the number of forums would have any impact other then making it harder to filter out stuff that isn't worth reading.

[Sanvean]

One of the things I intend to do when I'm back is a little rearranging
of the forums. As far as guidelines go, I would like to see people
confining the OOC chatter stuff to the actual OOC forum, and I'd like to see less derailing of other people's threads with pointless chatter. Expect to see more active enforcement of this in the future.

The staff has expressed a preference that they be the people posting
answers in "Ask the Staff". Please don't post in a thread unless you are
asking for clarification about a question or answer. Ask the Staff is
also not the place to post code ideas or suggestions. If you have a
suggestion, write it up and email it to mud. If it's a good idea, we'll
discuss it on the staff board and put it in our bug/project database if
it's something we know we'd like to see implemented. There's no
guarantee it'll get put in if that's the case, though - much depends on
whether or not anyone has the time, energy and inclination.

I also want to see a LOT fewer flames, to the point where if you get
more than one post deleted and warnings about it, you should be worrying
about whether or not your GDB privileges are about to get removed for a
while. I'm very, very serious about this. Civility is one of the great
human virtues, and I'd like to see a bit more of it on this board.

[Carnage]

The staff has expressed a preference that they be the people posting answers in "Ask the Staff".

Not to derail or anything, but what's the official stance about players quoting helpfiles and linking to other threads as well in there? I've done both a few times.

[Sanvean]

The official stance is that the staff wants to be the ones posting answers.