Is armageddon safe and cozy?

[titansfan]

I honestly have not seen the kind of conflict that used to exist. For example the Rinth actually being formidable or the grasslands being a place of always looking over your shoulder due to that flowery-braided elf who just happens to be watching you just hoping you step on the wrong kind of flower. Hell I haven't even seen a scary defiler for ages, I think even those are getting warm and fuzzy.

I want a raiding group to exist and I want some of the old, veteran scary players, like myself, to stand up and start corrupting the world.

You all know who you are.....*cough* Yam *cough* X-D *cough*.......Halaster, where ever you are you scary sob.  


P.S: Nyr is clever, that made me laugh.

[janeshephard]

So last time I played on a regular basis (I've been back for a couple months now I've got free time again)
was several years ago.
Back then it seemed like death was not only likely, but nearly iminent due to active organizations such as:
Red Fang
Black moon
Borsail slavers
Kuraci
Wild defilers and magickers
Mullish raiders
The Guild
Mantis
Gith
Halflings

Wait I haven't played in months.

You're telling me gith, mantis, kuraci, rogue sorcerers are not around? Caaaam on.

[SpyGuy]

I'm wondering how Kurac made the list with all the NPC nasties.  I started about 10 years ago (shortly after Luir's fell to mantis I think) and remember Kurac being pretty cool and badass.  They've always been tough SOBs if you crossed them but when were they crazy PKers?  What'd I miss?

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm wondering how Kurac made the list with all the NPC nasties.  I started about 10 years ago (shortly after Luir's fell to mantis I think) and remember Kurac being pretty cool and badass.  They've always been tough SOBs if you crossed them but when were they crazy PKers?  What'd I miss?

Where do you think all the muls are going? 'Cause it ain' the 'rinth.

[A Large Bag]

I wouldn't mind seeing a raiding group that is -not- delves. Kinda been done to death.

ROFL!

[Schrodingers Cat]

Most antagonists are quickly snuffed out by the powers that be (IE: players in power).  This is just how it is, mainly because antagonists are rarely played by PCs in clans and have little in the way of support and protection that clans offer.  Antagonists (trouble makers) don't last long in clans (this goes double for trouble making clans) for various reasons, often times the virtual clan eventually gets rid of them for making them look bad (it's hard to be a good antagonist).  Playing an antagonist is often a lot of work and often times thankless and can be very boring and also, depending on why one plays, unfulfilling.

Next time you see someone trying to mix things up and cause trouble, ask yourself if there isn't some way your character couldn't join them and help balance out the "sides" a bit, giving their cause a more of a chance at success?  You'll have much more fun.  If you're playing against an antagonist and have the opportunity to destroy/kill/obliterate them, maybe instead just wound them in a way that ends the conflict but lets in continue on into the future somehow (if possible). You'll have fun and the antagonist you are with will appreciate your efforts more than you'll know.  In a game of conflict, it makes sense that we as players, when possible, should foster the conflict by not letting it be completely resolved.

[maxid]

^ I agree with that potentially dead cat.

[Necro]

troublemakers are actively culled from many clans (read: publicly joinable clans). if not by the STs/admins in charge, then they will be smacked by the playerbase via overbearing punishment until gone or dead. there's really no room in general for a rebellious type in zalanthas, and you're pretty much public enemy number one as soon as you begin to fly your colors. the only room for a real villain is at the top or at the very fucking bottom, so unless you're a templar, or you pretend to be a nice, obedient guy for ten in game years you won't get to be anyone's nemesis and actually exert some power.

well, you can always be a bottomfeeder scumsack raider with no friends, but good luck with that one. I feel like most of you who would even consider such an option are entering into it with OOC friendships, as per previous posts. kudos to anyone who is actually entering the game and trying to garner minions/friends from a strictly IC perspective - it's tough, let me tell you.

this game has become more and more heavily slanted away from raiding, war, general "open conflict" over time.  Defilers are also noticeably more rare. I've yet to worry about raiders or wild 'gickers in the last four or five years.. even the classically dangerous activities are generally simple and easy to avoid trouble with (salt grebbing, obsidian mining). The only death I worry about these days is getting locked into melee by a bahamet and killed by my own flee skill. Not tense, not engaging, just boring, frankly.

[Yam]

I have the sneaking suspicion that most of the people bemoaning a lack of raiders just want an antagonist they can defeat.

[Necro]

Losing is fun. Winning perpetually, well, it gradually loses its shine. In regards to what you said, though, Yam, I doubt the pbase really is clamoring for yet another half giant raider that can't be tricked, or a mul with nothing better to do than pkill you for your boots. So you're probably right. Winning AND losing are more fun when the playing field is vaguely level.

[Karieith]

Rivals and Villains are a necessary component to a good story. If you out and kill your rival/villain you are making the game world a whole lot more boring for yourself and everyone else.

It's characters like these that'll provide you your fun and danger, until someone kills them because they've gotten to this point where they want to be left alone and they do not want to be bothered to deal with it anymore. To them, the conflict has become a "bad" thing

Ideally, everyone in a situation where they could kill a troublesome character should take a moment to consider the ramifications of that death on a local scale before making their lives easier. A little conflict is not a bad thing and sometimes its fun.

Of course, this doesn't matter to the players who just want to tavern sit  or languish in their apartments and mudsexing all day.

Losing is fun. Winning perpetually, well, it gradually loses its shine. In regards to what you said, though, Yam, I doubt the pbase really is clamoring for yet another half giant raider that can't be tricked, or a mul with nothing better to do than pkill you for your boots. So you're probably right. Winning AND losing are more fun when the playing field is vaguely level.

Indeed, it seems lately I've come across too many characters who just want to win, losing can be just as fun. (I've had a lot of fun losing, way more drama failing. It's a great vehicle for character development.) Let's be realistic, no villain/rival is going to keep trying when all they do is get killed. No one is going to keep making villains if players go all Zero Tolerance. So it's the villain/rival killers who are creating their own raider/conflict deficit with their antics.

Blame yourselves for the safe/cuddly/boring game.

[maxid]

I have the sneaking suspicion that most of the people bemoaning a lack of raiders just want an antagonist they can defeat.

While I'm not one of those (I prefer to be the antagonist who is defeated) can you explain what, exactly, is wrong with that? 

[Malken]

Losing is fun.

I stopped reading there.

I win in life, I constantly win on Arm, and that's how I like it baby.

[Malifaxis]

Losing is fun.

I stopped reading there.

I win in life, I constantly win on Arm, and that's how I like it baby.

So go out and win at being a villain, fella.

[Riya OniSenshi]

I have the sneaking suspicion that most of the people bemoaning a lack of raiders just want an antagonist they can defeat.

While I'm not one of those (I prefer to be the antagonist who is defeated) can you explain what, exactly, is wrong with that? 

What's wrong with it is they're not actually willing to go out and do it themselves, I think is what Yam means. Though he can correct me if that's the wrong idea.

[Malken]

So go out and win at being a villain, fella.

I win at life because I know where my limits are 

I REALLY REALLY REALLY tried hard to play villains on Arm.. I'm a total failure at that.

Being a villain IRL is a lot easier..

[Marauder Moe]

Meh.  I think if you're trying to be a villain, then you're probably failing at it.

Good villains don't know/believe that they're villains.  They think they're the hero.

Corollary: villainy is in the eye of the beholder.


I think one of the few traits, though, that one could purposefully adopt in order to maximize one's chances at villainy is a sort of selfish and/or ends justify the means attitude.

[Delusion]

What Moe said.

I'll go ahead and sort of say it again anyway. Everyone's protagonist is almost certainly an antagonist to someone else, however minor. If your character is a self-serving good-for-nothing, they don't need to show it. Especially not if they're being clever about it. And a coarse and rude character might even err more towards being the good, heroic sort when it comes to actually doing stuff.

[Yam]

Close enough. This topic always comes up once or twice a year. Raiders are cool and all, but they usually aren't sustainable or dangerous. The successful ones are ghosts, lest they be hunted down by a joint effort that'd put NATO to shame.

I've played both with and against one of those successful raiders and I was part of putting together an angry taskforce to end his reign of terror. It wasn't successful, and I'm kind of ashamed to have taken part of it, but I can understand the sentiment. Most people get pissed off when their characters lose power and pull out all the stops to exact revenge.

That character was a lot of fun when he was around, and it's probably one of the main characters that come to mind when people think raider, but I seriously doubt more than a handful of players would be able to emulate that.

Meh.  I think if you're trying to be a villain, then you're probably failing at it.

Good villains don't know/believe that they're villains.  They think they're the hero.

Corollary: villainy is in the eye of the beholder.


I think one of the few traits, though, that one could purposefully adopt in order to maximize one's chances at villainy is a sort of selfish and/or ends justify the means attitude.

This is a more sustainable route for most people. A lot of the most famous and praised characters from the past few years were villains in their own right. They just weren't stupid or obvious about it.

Actually, some were pretty obvious about it. Those people (monsters) also got a lot of OOC hate. I joined in on that at times. I'm sorry about that now. I think that definitely contributed to the current lack of overt threats.

Back on the topic of how to be a better villain, this and this are logs that have inspired me.

The 48 Laws of Power are always something to keep in mind.

You also need to remember that it takes time to get into a position where you can start imposing your will onto others. You need to survive. You need to be imposed upon. You need to brown nose, gain sociopolitical power, friends, and what not. As my characters lifespans have increased I've started to notice a lot of flash in the pan villainy. I've also seen a lot of good villainy.

The good villains are out there. Blending in.





On the main topic, safeness, the wilds are plenty dangerous. Probably more dangerous than any other time in the past five years. There is still a high character turnover rate.

[Kastion]

You also need to remember that it takes time to get into a position where you can start imposing your will onto others. You need to survive. You need to be imposed upon. You need to brown nose, gain sociopolitical power, friends, and what not. As my characters lifespans have increased I've started to notice a lot of flash in the pan villainy. I've also seen a lot of good villainy.

The good villains are out there. Blending in.

+1

I am a nobody and somewhat of a recluse and I have notice once you start gaining some power people force themselves into your RP. If you dont know what im talking about try making a character with the sole goal of living awhile and attaining rank or the equivalent in what you do. When people start trying to play with you, you know you are becoming someone important.

[Yam]

You can still be a dick or a cheat or a slimeball before that as long as you don't get in over your head.

On another note, the status quo is usually only maintained for appearances sake. No established clan wants to be seen as a threat to others. Every established clan wants more. You can always find ways to cause conflict and capitalize on it. If your plan is smart, you'll probably get support from your superiors. If they don't think it's smart, murder them.

[Karieith]

There is a reason I used words other than just villain. It's important because there are many types of villain. They are not all mustache twirling Dastardly-types. (Especially since some of them are female.)

You can play the bloodthirsty raider (Conan), Or the conniving politician (Sherri f of Nottingham/Prince John), or play a clan leader who just makes their employees lives miserable via incompetence/torture/abuse/insanity/paperwork/etc (Office Space, haha)

Like someone said above, other villains are only villains because they're on the wrong side. The Lawful-Good Paladin working for a Lawful-Evil emperor (The General Leo) Or the super activist that just makes lives miserable with their good intentions (PETA and the Whale Wars douchebags.) You don't have to be EVIL to be bad.

You wanna see conflict/drama/interesting stuff? Create it. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and complain, hike up your pants and go be a pain in someones ass.
You don't have to be a villain, you can just be a threat or a rival.

It hasn't been a year yet but I'll give a vague example. I intentionally chose an active, popular and prolific character and began to harass and creep them out while amassing friends. It wasn't huge and deadly, the character was largely harmless. It was Sitcom level drama. Just some creepy person creeping out someone else, but it stirred up plot and made things interesting and people got involved. It didn't require me eating babies or raping and pillaging, or anything like that.

Someone is important and trying to achieve X. Is your character also passionate about X? Why not compete with them and be their rival?

You don't have to be everyone's enemy, guys.

[Morrolan]

If you have trouble being a villain, then apprentice to someone. Someone with vision. Someone who offers your poor, illiterate character something to believe in.

Becoming a villain is a lot like becoming the manager of a Kwik-e-mart. Get in there, survive, and you will eventually be promoted.

One of the great challenges of being a villain is a lack of henchmen who are looking to be led.  In the movies, henchmen are incompetent, overly greedy, and prone to mistakes that let the hero win.

Forget all that.

Whether you are the faithful lackey or the power-behind-the-throne (not literally), these are the people who do well in life. Wealth. Power. Excitement. Leadership.

A defiler? No biggie. Locate, dog-pile, behead.

A handsome/beautiful, well-spoken defiler with:

• an aide who is actually loyal
• a lieutenant who has few henchmen who are willing to kill at a moment's notice (including maybe an ex-byn and a few independents who have seen the whole world)
• a spymaster with a network of spies who are getting themselves promoted because they are known for results (may double with aide)

Now we are talking power.  

But what that takes is someone willing to be the defiler's aide/spymaster. And someone else willing to be the defiler's lieutenant. With that, we do not have the mad, evil wizard twirling his mustache...we have Duke Paul Atredies.

P.S. Necessary reading: Vanth's Guide to playing a Noble, stickied in the RP Discussion area.

[BleakOne]

Off-topic: I don't watch the Whale Wars show, but I support their attempts to stop the whalers. Good luck to them.

On-topic: Villains need to be a bit smarter too. I mean, it's not exactly likely that somebody will spare your life if you've been actively taking the lives of others during raiding and the like. Play it smart, get friends in high places, pay off potential sources of trouble, ect.

[Dalmeth]

The sheer volume of wet work I've done keeping others' secrets and covering up their mistakes would chill you to your bones.

The only characters to ever betray me did so at the behest of, "new acquaintances."

So you want to be a villain?  Here's my advice : make friends.

Friends you'd die for.  Friends you'd kill for.