Armageddon 2 Cancelled - discussion thread

[Nyr]

Mmm, no I definitely don't think it has always been stale. And I didn't take a six year hiatus.

I know, and I did not say you did. I was pointing out that you'd only played the game for a period of time less than 6 years.  I then pointed out that you'd been on hiatus (though not for how long--looks like for 3 of those years).  It's not a bad thing, just a little strange to say that the game has gotten stale due to staff focus on Arm 2 when the vast majority of your experience with the game has been an experience while Arm 2 was in the wings.

I guess, there was a whole of activity centered around the end of world plots. It all got very exciting, with the world changing in dramatic ways...quickly and over a fairly short period of time. And then it all slowed right down. Which is fine...But it seems like a bit of a come down. And people like excitement - don't they?

Again, back to the hiatus, you've certainly missed at least one HRPT and several other smaller (but significant) events.

I'm definitely on the side of the people that miss 'staff led plots'. I totally agree with plots being mostly player driven, but in order to add new and exciting things to the core of the Zalanthan world - that takes the staff. Otherwise it gets a bit samey.

Back to hiatus and timing, that staff policy didn't exist for the majority of your play (policy began Feb 2009) and at least one HRPT happened (and several smaller events) since that policy came into being.

It would be refreshing to see some big stuff change in the game. Like...scrap Tuluk! New city on the other side of the silt sea...and silt wars...or anything really...just a new era. Bring back raiders and aggressive d-elves.

We haven't gotten rid of raiders and aggressive d-elves.  Raiders -- Black Moon was closed before you started playing.  Red Fangs got their clocks cleaned IC.

I've read enough to think that I am not alone in thinking that the game as has slowed down...so why be defensive about it? It's not a personal attack on staff, it's just an opinion from the perspective of a player. And perhaps a hiatus makes it easier to make a comparison between how it was then and how it is now. Having not been led through it with gradual adjustments change.

I have no issue with people posting their opinions about how they never expected it to happen or feel that the game has shifted focus or whatever, etc.  I'd like to think I'm not being defensive by pointing out that the facts don't really line up with your own experiences.  You've (barring a few months) only known a game that has had a second game in the works.  You've also (due to a hiatus) missed any major events that occurred since the staffing policy changes. 

[Nyr]

Hey look, anecdote about subjective opinions.

Also the thread has cycled twice already. Maybe closing and stickying it will make people read all the posts that have answered peoples questions and misconceptions.

Maybe so, but something this big should probably be left open a while (imho).  Maybe after a full week.

[FantasyWriter]

Staff input so far.  Please read to keep the same things from coming up again and again.

Please use this thread to discuss the staff announcement re: Arm 2.

Please keep the conversation civil.  This is not a thread to post complaints, if you have concerns or complaints please direct those to staff via the request tool. If you have questions please post them here and Producers and Admin will endeavour to answer these as best we can.

The staff that are working on Armageddon 1, or the 'game', have never been working on the other project.  You will not be seeing a sudden drastic change in output of staff etc as every storyteller working on the game has had this game as their sole focus.  Some producer and admin time has been spent on Arm 2 but in the last couple of years it has been minimal, at best.

As far as drastic changes to this game - you won't be seeing that in the immediate future, either.   As stated in the announcement we will be using the copious amount of information and proposals we have for Arm Reborn as well as the work that has been done on building items, npcs etc as a database for this game.  It's entirely possible that you will eventually see some of the things we'd been working on for that game introduced to this one.

We are still bound within the constraints of our heavily modified Diku code.  This allows us to do a lot of things, but there are many things that we would prefer done otherwise that just can't be done, or that the overhead in turns or work vs reward means that we will not be doing them.  Code projects fall in to their own special niche of requiring the manpower of a very limited team to want to work on them.

Plotwise nothing is going to be retconned. It is business as usual. Kanks will not be returning as they are part of the Dark Sun universe etc.

This has not changed how the game is run.  Plots will still be player focused, a lot of things will still be done via the request tool, and so on.

Really we just want to be straight up with everyone and say Arm Reborn with a new game world isn't going to happen.  We hope you're enjoying the game and game world as it is now because that is how it is going to be continuing on for the forseeable future.

This project has not been 'active' for the last couple of years, apart from the team working on the code base.  The primary drivers of the project are no longer part of the staffing team.  We made this decision based on the fact that our preference was to the existing game world, rather than bringing in a new game world that the majority of people working on the game have not been involved with.

We know this game, we know how to staff it, and we know how to keep it ticking over.

We're not changing our staffing methods.  We will be continuing on as we have been.  If you've been playing the game and haven't noticed staff involvement in the player originated plots and other things that have been going on then you might want to take a long around and get yourself involved. 

Since you guys are posting so fast -- That is in response to "Player driven plots are well and good, but players can't drive something like the copper wars." They all started with player effort.

The fact of the matter with code is we have an extremely limited resource with respect to coders.  Arm 2's code base will not be sucking time from any of them but me, and that will be as I feel like it.  So don't expect JavaMUG's engine anytime soon.

In answer to the question about whether we might use rooms, ideas etc etc from the Arm 2 proposals/building that has gone on.  I have answered this previously in the post and in the actual announcement in staff announcements. However, I will copy and paste once more:

It is possible that over time we will consider some of the proposed ideas and projects for incorporation to the Armageddon world and we will utilize what we have compiled as an ideas database.

So if Arm 2 is not coming (for now), does that mean we can lose the pretence of peace between the major powers and get back at each others' throats again?

+1

+1

+1

Like...half of you weren't even around for any of the overt stuff (see:  Copper War).  Nothing is changing overnight, though, as said here before, and we're also not changing our staffing methods at this time.  We didn't announce shit was hitting the fan prior to previous HRPTs (except to warn about the HRPT itself once it became more imminent).

Put on your sandcloth and head on towards RP town and just have fun.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I thought to myself: If only the efforts weren't being put forth toward Arm 2 and were being put into flushing out a few things and adding a few things to -this- game.

This may be a bit of a logical fallacy.  Admittedly, people as a resource added to Armageddon would have resulted in more people working on Armageddon, but that assumes that we needed the extra builders and coders on the current game in the first place.  Without a Reborn project, we would have had no need for the extra people.  We also weren't adding in whole new zones and areas for shiggles (henceforth, "shits and giggles" shall be abbreviated to this term) in the years prior to Reborn's announcement.  We wouldn't have been adding in whole new zones and areas for shiggles had there not been an announcement.  The existence of work on the project doesn't mean a 1:1 conversion of equal work being done on Armageddon.  While none of us possess a TARDIS, my own best guess is that we would simply have had a different focus for the past five and a half years, and not 9000 new rooms added to the game (some without descriptions, but all without the flags, scripts, etc that are on rooms in the current game). 

However, coding focus from any coding staff would have been directly on the game as it exists now.  This by no means points to the possibility of more code, but it is what it is.  Actually, I'd almost hazard a bet that some code in Arm 1 wouldn't have been done without considering it for Arm 2 or using Arm 2 ideas to implement scripts instead of hard code. 

We could have already had pee code for mounts by now. 

I guess I was hoping something good would come out of all the work done and all the sacrifices made.

I can think of several things that came to fruition largely because "this is something we want to do in Reborn" happened to mesh with "this is something we can actually start on now with current code."

To reiterate what Nyr has said - there are a bunch of changes that happened to this game because of the work that was being done on Arm 2.  A lot of them are staff side tools that players never see but that have made the job of staffing and communicating amongst staff and with players a lot easier and more streamlined. 

Small ideas we had for Arm 2 have found their way in to the game.  We have a website designed and waiting to be 'tested' that we originally were working on for Arm 2 and instead decided to port over the current games info.  Extended subguilds are something we were trialling here as they were one of the things we were looking towards for arm 2, and so on.

A couple of points:

1.  As we have mentioned before about Arm 2, there was very little overlap in staff effort on both games.  There was some at an administrative level and a little at the coding level, but the staff's focus (as you have seen it) has been on the current game.  As also mentioned before, there are a host of code, gameworld, request tool, etc. changes made to Arm 1 that have occurred in the past 6 years, some of which would not have occurred without Arm 2.

2.  If you have not played the game for more than 6 years and are recently coming back from a hiatus, it seems to me at least like it'd be difficult to assess the game at all from that point of view.  If it has been "getting a bit stale," it has "always been stale" from your perspective.

[flurry]

I was a little surprised but not all that disappointed. Taking a chance at trying something bold is how you learn anyway. (At least that's what the crafting system tells me.)

[Maso]

I love the word shiggles.

[audrey]

Mixed feelings.

It was expected, Arm 2 started to have a Duke Nukem Forever feel, no blogs were being updated on it. Was just waiting on the cancellation.

I was really looking forward to the new codebase. And I felt Arm 1 was becoming a little dated. I hate the layout of most cities in Arm.. too many rooms for no reason, too many hotspots for people to sit around in, too many clans, the playerbase becomed diluted. Outside the city it makes sense to have a lot of rooms, to give the illusion of a vast unforgiving desert, but not really in the city. It takes a RL hour or more just to shop for starter things, and a while more to learn where all the shops are (which should already be IC knowledge).

On the other hand, I like the Armageddon theme and how it pulls it off. I didn't really like the Arm 2 theme from what I was seeing, didn't like the creatures much. Dwarves and elves were very interesting.

And regardless, no work on Arm 2 means all the more work can be focused on Arm 1. From my experience GMing RP plots, when you have a pre-set future, with future clans and stuff, you try to minimize the butterfly effect as much as possible. Which means that you tend to disapprove of plots where the player becomes heroes and changes the world.. because you've already determined how the world will be changed. Which makes you limited to becoming only a typical grunt. That's partially why I lost interest over the last few years, I felt it was going to remain static; no new cities or major clans, all existing major organizations being immune to destruction.

But now that you've got a few free staff and released yourself from the chains of Arm 2, it might be worth getting more player driven epic plots together with staff help.

[Spoon]

I'm not particularly distraught over the cancellation, but one thing I was looking forward to was the more believable weapons for the setting.

Is there any plan/chance of implementing this in the current game?

[Nyr]

And regardless, no work on Arm 2 means all the more work can be focused on Arm 1.

The staff that are working on Armageddon 1, or the 'game', have never been working on the other project.  You will not be seeing a sudden drastic change in output of staff etc as every storyteller working on the game has had this game as their sole focus.  Some producer and admin time has been spent on Arm 2 but in the last couple of years it has been minimal, at best.

From my experience GMing RP plots, when you have a pre-set future, with future clans and stuff, you try to minimize the butterfly effect as much as possible. Which means that you tend to disapprove of plots where the player becomes heroes and changes the world.. because you've already determined how the world will be changed.

This is the only thing that hasn't actually been responded to in this thread already.  This is untrue for a few reasons.  One:  Armageddon is hardly a place for heroes.  The hero is the guy with a dagger shoved through his spleen, bleeding out, all because he was going to stand up to the Guild and not pay his protection money for his independent organization this year.  That guy has a place in Zalanthas:  as a reminder to all that being a hero is both difficult and not very murder-y/corruption-y/betrayal-y.  Two:  You obviously weren't around during late 2006 and early 2007.  The things that staff approved then are a testament to disproving your statement.  I won't get into that too much, but suffice it to say that it took away from the definite low-magick feel of the game that we have since decided to preserve more carefully.

Which makes you limited to becoming only a typical grunt. That's partially why I lost interest over the last few years, I felt it was going to remain static; no new cities or major clans, all existing major organizations being immune to destruction.

Bolded for emphasis because:

I hate the layout of most cities in Arm.. too many rooms for no reason, too many hotspots for people to sit around in, too many clans, the playerbase becomes diluted.

As you weren't around during the times I mentioned and maybe haven't seen what has happened since then, I'd like to point out that your feelings are not based on fact.  Maybe you wanted new cities; no, we weren't going to build a new city.  You just pointed out above that you were dissatisfied with player dilution.  We shared the same concerns, so no, no new cities then.  No new clans?  You also thought there were too many clans.  We shared the same concerns, so no, no new clans--erm, wait, we did create two new clans.    Jaxa Pah and Akai Sjir were created to flesh out a couple of actual city elf tribes.  All existing major organizations being immune to destruction?  Immune is such a strong word, and yes, you're correct in that the major organizations probably have enough resources to avoid wholesale destruction.  However, Borsail certainly was decimated during the gith invasion (not destroyed, but hopefully you can accept that it is at least a little surprising).   The Benjari went extinct.  The halflings don't seem to be around anymore.  The Seik had to get roommates.  The Red Fangs may have thought they were immune to destruction.  (Hint:  they were not.)

But now that you've got a few free staff

This may be a bit of a logical fallacy.  Admittedly, people as a resource added to Armageddon would have resulted in more people working on Armageddon, but that assumes that we needed the extra builders and coders on the current game in the first place.  Without a Reborn project, we would have had no need for the extra people.  We also weren't adding in whole new zones and areas for shiggles (henceforth, "shits and giggles" shall be abbreviated to this term) in the years prior to Reborn's announcement.  We wouldn't have been adding in whole new zones and areas for shiggles had there not been an announcement.  The existence of work on the project doesn't mean a 1:1 conversion of equal work being done on Armageddon.  While none of us possess a TARDIS, my own best guess is that we would simply have had a different focus for the past five and a half years, and not 9000 new rooms added to the game (some without descriptions, but all without the flags, scripts, etc that are on rooms in the current game). 

and released yourself from the chains of Arm 2, it might be worth getting more player driven epic plots together with staff help.

You mean like flooding a major city (and responding to the flood of the major city), making a volcano (and responding to the making of the volcano), forcing players to pick and choose between saving one small settlement or another from a gith invasion, assisting in responding to a conflict between two tribes resulting in one's demise...things like that that were player driven?

Yep, if only the staff that weren't working on Arm 2 hadn't been working on Arm 2, we could've done some of that...   

[SpyGuy]

I missed pretty much everything Nyr just mentioned above and have only been playing again for the last 4 months or so.  Maybe I've just been lucky but I've noticed a lot of staff love and attention to clans, more than I remember from playing before.  Of course I can't mention any of it specifically because it's all still to fresh so feel free to keep claiming the game or the policy on player driven plots is hurting the game.

To put things into perspective, even when staff led plots were the norm (this is before the end of the world stuff, that shit sounds crazy) it could have a feeling of just being the next nilazi/elemental/demon/NPC sorceror of the month.  Most PCs had very little idea of what was actually going on other than it was all magickal and stuff.  In the end very little changed for your PC except that maybe a few people died.  I also have the impression (and could be wrong) that back in the day staff were much more likely to bring the hammer down early on player led stuff that conflicted with the meta-plots rather than letting them start to develop.

[audrey]

That's tangential to my point, Nyr

I'm not saying that staff hasn't put any work on Armageddon. Certainly there's always been plenty of events going on.

I'm saying that Arm has more of a... passive feeling. As in players just react to whatever the game throws at them. There's not really a feeling that hey, I can put 400 hours in this game, assemble a group of non-sponsored mundanes, wage economic war on Kurac, and eventually leave some kind of physical effect on Kurac like blown up a shop which can never be used by players. Of course, this can't be done solo, otherwise it's not much of a multiplayer RP game, but at least a large enough motivated group might be able to do something.

Right now it feels like anything that changes in the world done by players just coincided with what the staff were planning anyway. And I feel that a part of that has been because you've got a large plot already at work. Now that there is no major plot to tie the game to, the plot is more open, and there's room for players to change things.

I'm not sure how to say it, but I feel that the game is more focused in creating a PvP (not necessarily PK) environment to thrive in. As in House A hates House B, both have their political conflicts, both hire PCs to sabotage the other, and the gameplay & player perspective is based around that. Like I don't see any way for a mundane player to affect House A-B relations or actually have any kind of impact on the environment.

Of course, I can't really see how much of the game is player run, so I'd appreciate stories of scenes which were run by players I don't really mean PC templars or nobles or sorcerors, since they're not really much different than the staff in that they're expected to keep a plot running.

Not that it really affects me either way, I just log in because it's the only way of watching the game. I just think that it feels less 'scripted' that way.

[Morrolan]

I can put 400 hours in this game, assemble a group of non-sponsored mundanes, wage economic war on Kurac, and eventually leave some kind of physical effect on Kurac like blown up a shop which can never be used by players.

On the OOC side, part of that is because even without Staff there are ten other players, who all put in 40 hours each, any of whom might find it in their interest to backstab you by taking the side of a House that is IC hundreds of years old instead of you.

Aiming to challenge Kurac is not like challenging Facebook. It is like challenging a major organized crime family. The economic, social, and downright survival interests of thousands of people hinge on Kurac's continuance. Trying to spit in their eye might not go over too well.  Zalanthas is an illiterate society, and is therefore very dependent on "face" and social status. Making Kurac look weak does not just threaten their money supply. It threatens their lives, and they will respond appropriately.

Are they all-knowing? No. But they have a small army, a sense of history that your character does not (literacy, there), special forces, allies, and more coin than you can count. Kurac is not half-a-dozen players and a couple of staff. Waging "economic" war on them in a modern sense (under the rule of law, where no one just stabs you) is not possible. Attempts to do so without securing equally powerful allies (who are securable, given time, money, prestige, and so forth) will make a PC a splattered by on a windshield.  It will make a dozen PC's into bugs spattered on a windshield.

If you can secure those allies? Then (I believe) staff would be more than happy to help the world respond appropriately.

In other words, despite your feelings, you can do exactly what you claim cannot be done.

$.02

P.S. It's just really, really hard.

P.P.S. Read right, this is the blueprints for hurting Kurac. I knew there was a reason literacy is not allowed!

[Nyr]

That's tangential to my point, Nyr

Well, your point seemed tangential to Armageddon Reborn's cancellation.  No harm, no foul.    I won't quote-mine this time, but please note that everything I'm about to write can be backed up by previous posts on the GDB.

I'm saying that Arm has more of a... passive feeling. As in players just react to whatever the game throws at them. There's not really a feeling that hey, I can put 400 hours in this game, assemble a group of non-sponsored mundanes, wage economic war on Kurac, and eventually leave some kind of physical effect on Kurac like blown up a shop which can never be used by players. Of course, this can't be done solo, otherwise it's not much of a multiplayer RP game, but at least a large enough motivated group might be able to do something.

Eh...I don't even feel that motivated to address this point.  It's your feeling.  It's always difficult to discuss people's feelings.  However, in actuality, this is possible, regardless of how you feel.  Just like my problem with answering your point is "motivation," your problem with accomplishing the task you've suggested is "motivation."  Get off yer bum and do it.  Better yet, toss in a character report about how your PC wants to do this, then have the gumption to stick to it for more than a couple of weeks (because you can't simultaneously have massive changes to the gameworld and immediate changes to the gameworld, sorry).

Right now it feels like anything that changes in the world done by players just coincided with what the staff were planning anyway.  And I feel that a part of that has been because you've got a large plot already at work. Now that there is no major plot to tie the game to, the plot is more open, and there's room for players to change things.

When we did have a "large plot" already at work, the staffer in charge of that plot specifically stated in 2007 that there was no "one plot," nor any predetermined ending and winner.  It was also stated that we were watching what was happening with players and thinking about how to react to that and have that influence other things.  In 2009, that same staffer stated (w/r/t the HRPT) that the majority of what would happen/where it happened was driven, directed, and influenced by players on the whole.  In 2010, another staffer made it clear that the HRPT in 2009 wrapped up the "large plot" of which you speak.

So even when that existed, it wasn't "one plot," it wasn't predetermined, and while staff were involved, it was largely influenced by and dependent on players.  Any feelings you had there were not backed up by staff position or reality, just perception.

I'm not sure how to say it, but I feel that the game is more focused in creating a PvP (not necessarily PK) environment to thrive in. As in House A hates House B, both have their political conflicts, both hire PCs to sabotage the other, and the gameplay & player perspective is based around that.

translation:  the game is AWESOME

Like I don't see any way for a mundane player to affect House A-B relations or actually have any kind of impact on the environment.

I'm not Neo in the Matrix or anything, but I can think of a few ways to affect both, and PCs have worked on that.  (Note that eliminating the opposing house/force/tribe/PC is also a resolution to the conflict.)

Of course, I can't really see how much of the game is player run, so I'd appreciate stories of scenes which were run by players I don't really mean PC templars or nobles or sorcerors, since they're not really much different than the staff in that they're expected to keep a plot running.

Not that it really affects me either way, I just log in because it's the only way of watching the game. I just think that it feels less 'scripted' that way.

Why all of this concern over what is run by players?  I've seen that here and in a few other posts.  The sentiment runs like this:

"Well, if THIS big thing wasn't entirely written, scripted, and directed by PCs, starring PC # 1 and PC #2, and produced by the PC company, it's obvious players do not have a role in developing plots!"
"Big thing happened that players were involved in?  Obviously, players weren't involved in it; staff were going to do it anyway and players just came along for the ride."
"You mean to tell me this big event was started by players?  Surely you mean that staff suggested to players to do it and that's why they did it, all to maintain the illusion that the players can do plots!"

Or, to put it in visual form:

 

This goes out to all of you peeps:  this isn't a competition, it's a collaboration...and the relationship between player plots and staff involvement is symbiotic.  Players work together to make things happen, and they work together with staff to make things happen.  That's all that needs to be said.  Live with it and enjoy it...or don't!  That's fine by us.  We're going to keep trucking along; you're welcome to come play, too!

[maxid]

This goes out to all of you peeps:  this isn't a competition, it's a collaboration...and the relationship between player plots and staff involvement is symbiotic.  Players work together to make things happen, and they work together with staff to make things happen.  That's all that needs to be said.  Live with it and enjoy it...or don't!  That's fine by us.  We're going to keep trucking along; you're welcome to come play, too!

This took me a long time to figure out, and once I did figure it out, I started to have a lot more fun with the game.  Staff are just people playing the game like you.  We're all in this together, and we all rely on each other to make shit work.  We're all people who like stories, and we all want to make cool ones.

However, pre-figureing that out?  I can totally see where people are coming from - players can have a feeling of powerlessness because we're raised in a modern YOU RULE society, and Zalanthas is an archaic EAT SHIT AND DIE COMMONER society, so there's a massive disconnect.  Plus, Zalanthan morals are rather far off from our own modern ideals and such. 

As a fake example: Kurac slaughters a crew who infringed on their spice profits, that crew gets upset and says KURAC IS TOO STRONG I CAN'T DO ANYTHING, but in reality, they just didn't take into account that Kurac is quite literally about as strong as the Colombian cartels, and employs similar tactics at times.  And even if the wanna-bes had been communicating with staff, they'd feel shut down and ignored when told 'No, you can't do x, or y, sorry.' 

[Maso]

In regards to plots - and them being player driven now.

I can completely understand many of the decisions the staff has made, including this one. While the high-magick world upside down stuff was exciting for a bit, it did get tedious and spoiled the atmosphere of the game as we knew it. I'm really glad things have taken a step backwards.

I also agree that players, with the right determination, planning and teamwork, can drive some really interesting plot lines. They can do cool stuff that effects their city, the relationships of the people around them, trade and politics. But there seems a limitation on what a character (not player) can do. Obviously, a regular Zalanthan character cannot control things such as the natural world, what lies beneath the silt sea, the existence of copper deposits, the movements of giants etc.

These scenarios also provide great entertainment value for the player base. They manifest themselves with mystery that the characters need to solve, investigate and discover - because they don't know anything about it...because they didn't start it.

What I would really like to know is....Can these things still happen? If a player thinks up something cool (not to do with their character), would the staff look at implementing it? If I'm honest, I don't think this set up would work, because it would suck for the player - there'd be no mystery to them. Will the staff not even still consider small plots that start with events controlled by 'nature'? Because there are just some types of plots (small to large, magickal to completely mundane), that are entirely out of reach of the playable inhabitants of Zalanthas.

The best part about Armageddon, for me, is the mystery. Player driven plots kind of lack that sense of the unknown...

[Nyr]

If you've been playing the game and haven't noticed staff involvement in the player originated plots and other things that have been going on then you might want to take a long around and get yourself involved. 

Nothing is changing overnight, though, as said here before, and we're also not changing our staffing methods at this time.  We didn't announce shit was hitting the fan prior to previous HRPTs (except to warn about the HRPT itself once it became more imminent).

Put on your sandcloth and head on towards RP town and just have fun.

[Maso]

My post wasn't really about overnight changes due to the cancellation. And more just a general enquiry. I thought, since it kind of fitted with this conversation that it might be appropriate here. But I can move it if you like?

It hasn't really been answered by those quotes though.

[Nyr]

Specifically:

But there seems a limitation on what a character (not player) can do. Obviously, a regular Zalanthan character cannot control things such as the natural world,

but they can explore it

what lies beneath the silt sea,

but they can try to get there (lol)

the existence of copper deposits,

but they can look for them

the movements of giants etc.

but they can try to influence them

Hopefully you see the point here?  The stuff players do and the stuff players are interested in should be what determines the avenues that staff take for response in the virtual world.

The best part about Armageddon, for me, is the mystery. Player driven plots kind of lack that sense of the unknown...

If an HRPT of the scope of the last one doesn't impress you, I don't think much will.

[lordcooper]

Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to find metal deposits may actually lead to staff adding such a thing to the gameworld?

[Feco]

Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to find metal deposits may actually lead to staff adding such a thing to the gameworld?

I believe it's been stated by staff that they have a pretty good idea of the rest of the non-coded world, and would simply need to code it up if it became necessary.  I assume if players were on the right track, it would be coded in.

I don't have a source.

[Dakota]

The halflings don't seem to be around anymore. 

glances again..

The halflings don't seem to be around anymore. 

once more..

The halflings don't seem to be around anymore. 

Back to a thought...

I may still STRONGLY believe Arm needs a new -dedicated- raiding clan and some areas in the game need to be fleshed out more.. But I'll be a damn fool if I think the game is lousy, lacking or have any inkling that staff don't help out and push / handle plot stuff.

Seen it first hand. It happens. So be happy.

[Nyr]

Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to find metal deposits may actually lead to staff adding such a thing to the gameworld?

That question seemed pretty rhetorical.

Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to take over Tuluk may actually lead to staff letting them achieve success in the gameworld?
Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to destroy everything in Luir's may actually lead to staff letting them be successful?
Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to find the Lost Treasure of Amos the Great may actually lead to staff adding such a thing in the gameworld?

You can look all you want, doesn't mean you'll find it.  You can try to take over Tuluk if you want, doesn't mean you'll succeed.  You can try to destroy everything in Luir's, doesn't mean it's not already a shithole.  Your desire to do something does not necessarily mean that you should succeed. 

[Yam]

What'a a metal deposit?

Is that a euphemism for a noble's finger?

[maxid]

What'a a metal deposit?

Is that a euphemism for a noble's finger?

Think lower.   

[lordcooper]

Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to find metal deposits may actually lead to staff adding such a thing to the gameworld?

That question seemed pretty rhetorical.

Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to take over Tuluk may actually lead to staff letting them achieve success in the gameworld?
Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to destroy everything in Luir's may actually lead to staff letting them be successful?
Is this implying that a group of characters making a concerted effort to find the Lost Treasure of Amos the Great may actually lead to staff adding such a thing in the gameworld?

You can look all you want, doesn't mean you'll find it.  You can try to take over Tuluk if you want, doesn't mean you'll succeed.  You can try to destroy everything in Luir's, doesn't mean it's not already a shithole.  Your desire to do something does not necessarily mean that you should succeed. 

The key word there was may.  Success definitely shouldn't be guaranteed, but I have been under the impression (hopefully falsely!) that these things flat out weren't possible.  The question wasn't rhetorical, snark, meant as an insult, or anything other than a direct question.  I'm unsure why you automatically assume I had another agenda here.  Can I try again?

If a group of characters make a concerted effort to find metal deposits, is there a chance this may actually lead to staff adding such a thing to the gameworld?
If a group of characters make a concerted effort to take over Tuluk, could this potentially lead to staff letting them achieve success in the gameworld?
If a group of characters make a concerted effort to destroy everything in Luir's, might staff actually let them be successful?
If a group of characters makie a concerted effort to find the Lost Treasure of Amos the Great, would staff consider adding such a thing in the gameworld?

These are all things I didn't think were likely to occur, let alone possible.  I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here.  If you're implying that these things could actually happen (or even that staff actually want players to attempt things like this) then that's pretty awesome and shows that I (if nobody else) underestimated the extent to which staff are willing to support plots and let players effect the gameworld.  So, is that what you're saying?

[Nyr]

Find out IC, by playing, or by asking your relevant staff. We're hesitant to say yes specifically to hypothetical scenarios tossed up on the GDB with no actual work in the game itself.  We've said that we're supportive of reacting to (and working with/against) player plans/plots many a time. We shouldn't have to keep hashing this out every few months.

Go and do.