Instead of the approach code

[Bacon]

you shouldn't be able to unhitch someone who is shadowing you

that is the twinkiest shit

I believe they can only unhitch you if you are visible to them. Which means, you aren't successfully shadowing them.

[spacewars]

STOP TRYING TO CHANGE A GREAT GAME

[brytta.leofa]

STOP TRYING TO CHANGE A GREAT GAME

The PK minigame isn't really the best part of Armageddon.

[spacewars]

STOP TRYING TO CHANGE A GREAT GAME

The PK minigame isn't really the best part of Armageddon.

I've never pk'd

[roughneck]

STOP TRYING TO CHANGE A GREAT GAME

The PK minigame isn't really the best part of Armageddon.

Actually, it might be.  NPC's can be dangerous, able to cover the 'murder' aspect of the game to a small degree, but can never really pull off the 'corruption' or 'betreyal' part.  Can you rp a theme of murder, corruption and betrayal without PK?  I'm sure you could to a small degree, but never in a way that would truly resonate with me, at least.

PK is what what keeps you suspicious and uneasy or conniving and ruthless, depending on what side of the knife you're on.  I think PK, or the fear of PK, is a big part of the immersion.

Maybe you're bitter because you got pk'd in a way you didn't think was fair, but referring to PK as some kind of 'minigame' that is separate or detracts from the 'real' game is talking a cheap shot at players who have participated in this legitimate aspect of Armageddon which is endorsed by Staff, when it's done correctly.

I was surprised to see this suggested. I have never found myself wanting this kind of thing. I have wanted the opposite sort of thing though: chase code that allows you to automatically follow someone when they flee.

It keeps being suggested because people keep getting instagibbed by people running in from another room and attacking before they can react.

And people do that because other people keep walking out of the room the instant someone else enters. It's a vicious cycle.

Ya, I know why it keeps coming up, but it still surprises me.

If you don't want to get instagibbed, than take some precautions.  Don't sit around in the saltflats with a bunch expensive loot, unmounted and visible.  There is a reason why you can get rich foraging for salt as far as I'm concerned, it makes you very vulnerable.  Look around constantly when you're outside the gates, if you see a potential threat, hop on your mount, draw your weapon and keep your head up.  If you're pc is weak yet has the gear to be worth raiding, or enough enemies to make them a target, maybe it's wiser to move on when you spot someone outside that you don't recognize or doesn't belong to a GMH or Noble House that you're friendly with. Even if you can't truly prevent it, there is a bunch of ways to be extra careful, so you don't get caught by this kind of tactic.

In the case of bounty hunting, assinations and premeditated murder, the instagibb tactic actually makes a bit of sense.  If there's nothing that could change your pc's mind, and they only have one shot to make the kill happen in a place where their target could easily escape, why is he/she going to waste any time?  A couple of emotes, in this situation, is all the courtesy that is required as far as I'm concerned.

[Karieith]

Karieith: You're asking for your PC to be less effective at killing things through no fault of your own. You realize that, right?

Yeah I didn't think of this until later. I just always feel like such a twink when I'm sparring on a dualwield toon because I just do not have the WPM to keep up with the stabbity stab.

em stabs ~amos a bunch
em misses ~amos a bunch

[Comfortably Dumb]

For the record, I have had good luck just trusting other players and would be hesitant to endorse a hard-coded solution. But I call it luck because I know that has not been the case for others.

[NOFUN]

Edit: Didn't read the OP lol

[AreteX]

Edited: Removed my comment on above post about OP cause of their edit of the...this is complicated now!

I think there is something like this already coded into the game.  It is called the emoting system.  In all honesty you really should not just walk into a room and attack someone in my opinion.  If you're hidden, you should hemote your way up behind them, or semote at least... so you can get the "surprise".  But if you're visible, hulking warrior with a two-handed hammer... I guess the drawing the weapon is enough?  I mean..

I know I would likely emote towards the person in some manner before attacking.  Even if it was simply a, "The big warrior-type walks over towards ~soandso with quick steps, ~hammer in hand."  If you don't want to be obvious about it, then hemote it after you enter the room.  "The big warrior-type walks down the road, looking smug."  "Hemote slowly withdraws his hammer from his back, staring at ~target."  "Hemote approaches ~target, tightening their grip on ~hammer, knuckles white."

Then kill them.  You gave them a chance to notice things, you interacted at least to an extent.

Now, that person might just run away immediately and escape the PK, but really, is it so important you kill them that you're willing to just forget any and all roleplay and type 'kill target'?  Do you not even want the remote possibility of interesting plot being developed because now that person knows you're aggressive to them, or at least seemed that way?  Don't you want to see where the ripples go after you throw that first stone?

And if you did do such a thing without a history between the two PC's I would almost think the person would roleplay back.  A dubious stare, and "WTF are you doing?"  Something.  I would hope.

At least I think these are good solutions to such a problem...

[A Large Bag]

Here's where I stand on that:

I will try to rp a scene out with you before attacking. If you just walk off to avoid it, then next time I enter the room you're in, I'll enter it swinging.

I will -not- do this:

Enter room my foe is in. Emote or speak. They walk away. Enter room my foe is in. Emote or speak. They walk away. Enter room my foe is in. Emote or speak. They walk away. Enter room my foe is in. Emote or speak. They walk away. Etc.

And then they just get away or I give up because OOC -they- refused to roleplay the scene out. Also, some people are going to bitch or call bad rp no matter what you do if you attack or kill them so simply, I worry about -me-. So long as I know I gave an effort to rp it and it is IC then I'm going to do it however it goes down. If you choose to hang around and play out more of a scene leading up to my attack great. But if you insist on just walking away before I can attack when I try to do so, fuck you.

[Kastion]

Edited: Removed my comment on above post about OP cause of their edit of the...this is complicated now!

I think there is something like this already coded into the game.  It is called the emoting system.  In all honesty you really should not just walk into a room and attack someone in my opinion.  If you're hidden, you should hemote your way up behind them, or semote at least... so you can get the "surprise".  But if you're visible, hulking warrior with a two-handed hammer... I guess the drawing the weapon is enough?  I mean..

I know I would likely emote towards the person in some manner before attacking.  Even if it was simply a, "The big warrior-type walks over towards ~soandso with quick steps, ~hammer in hand."  If you don't want to be obvious about it, then hemote it after you enter the room.  "The big warrior-type walks down the road, looking smug."  "Hemote slowly withdraws his hammer from his back, staring at ~target."  "Hemote approaches ~target, tightening their grip on ~hammer, knuckles white."

Then kill them.  You gave them a chance to notice things, you interacted at least to an extent.

Now, that person might just run away immediately and escape the PK, but really, is it so important you kill them that you're willing to just forget any and all roleplay and type 'kill target'?  Do you not even want the remote possibility of interesting plot being developed because now that person knows you're aggressive to them, or at least seemed that way?  Don't you want to see where the ripples go after you throw that first stone?

And if you did do such a thing without a history between the two PC's I would almost think the person would roleplay back.  A dubious stare, and "WTF are you doing?"  Something.  I would hope.

At least I think these are good solutions to such a problem...

then we just get a good old "Goes into tavern and tells every single person what just happened" *the entire town forms a mob to hunt you down because they have nothing better to do*

the person on the receiving end of a failed kill twinks out a lot too. Its not just the attempted murderer

[AreteX]

That is an entirely different issue and one which irks me to no end.  My main point is you have to break the circle or it just comes back around again.

The issue with positively identfying someone with perfect key-word descriptions and remembering every detail of their equipment they wore is an issue that needs to be addressed itself as well.

This all just seems to me like an OOC issue that many people just overlook because they don't want to die, or want to kill someone.  They want to catch the guy who tried to kill them and so in turn, read a log of their exact short-desc, equipment/armor and spread it all over the place.  If this type of stuff happens then shame on them! :/

[Kastion]

That is an entirely different issue and one which irks me to no end.  My main point is you have to break the circle or it just comes back around again.

The issue with positively identfying someone with perfect key-word descriptions and remembering every detail of their equipment they wore is an issue that needs to be addressed itself as well.

This all just seems to me like an OOC issue that many people just overlook because they don't want to die, or want to kill someone.  They want to catch the guy who tried to kill them and so in turn, read a log of their exact short-desc, equipment/armor and spread it all over the place.  If this type of stuff happens then shame on them! :/

Im with you on that. But if you need someone dead you just flat out kill them. Nothing fancy. It will allways bite you in the ass to give them the chance to run while trying to emote. In most situations you should definently try to make it as much of a scene as possible.

[brytta.leofa]

The PK minigame isn't really the best part of Armageddon.

Actually, it might be. ... PK is what what keeps you suspicious and uneasy or conniving and ruthless, depending on what side of the knife you're on.  I think PK, or the fear of PK, is a big part of the immersion.

The existence of PKin' is absolutely vital to Armageddon.  I'm just saying--the mechanics of combat are not always pretty, and lend themselves to being argued over.

[AreteX]

That is an entirely different issue and one which irks me to no end.  My main point is you have to break the circle or it just comes back around again.

The issue with positively identfying someone with perfect key-word descriptions and remembering every detail of their equipment they wore is an issue that needs to be addressed itself as well.

This all just seems to me like an OOC issue that many people just overlook because they don't want to die, or want to kill someone.  They want to catch the guy who tried to kill them and so in turn, read a log of their exact short-desc, equipment/armor and spread it all over the place.  If this type of stuff happens then shame on them! :/

Im with you on that. But if you need someone dead you just flat out kill them. Nothing fancy. It will allways bite you in the ass to give them the chance to run while trying to emote. In most situations you should definently try to make it as much of a scene as possible.

I am not saying that you flourish your sword in the air and have a twenty-minute dialogue with the person before attacking.  I am just saying don't:  look e(spots target), e, e, e, kill target with commands queued.

Once the fight starts, emote if you want.  I understand its too fast to often do anything but type coded commands and hope for the best.  I am just saying try to give at least a little effort and play accordingly to the reaction of the other player.  Someone above mentioned following someone who keeps leaving the room and not reacting.  I don't expect you to try and roleplay out some emotes with someone you've known in the past to "look figure" immediately as you walk into a room, and haul ass afterwards.  Go right ahead and kill them.

But there ARE plenty of us who will roleplay with you before you try to kill us.  My character is GOING to die eventually.  Its going to happen.  I've been in situations where if someone wanted to kill me, there is NO WAY I could of escaped.  Locked doors.  Incredibly bad locations that even if I did run I would probably die anyway...  I think when you play Arm you have to accept that fact:  Your character will die.

Now, do you want it to be a well-played out scene where someone comes to kill you, threatening, menacing words, reactions, fear.  Time to think/emote/feel?  Or do you want it to be some random enter room, reel lock, dead scenario?

If you want the first situation.  Stop.  Roleplay.  Emote.  Think.  Feel.  On both sides.

I hope I see you in-game trying to kill me.  Because I'm going to play my character and not just OOCly gtfo   I hope we both enjoy it.  And if I die, I'll make a new one.

Anyways, no more derailing I guess.  We should just start another thread if we want to continue this topic and the other one.

[EldritchOrigins]

This would detract from the allure of apartments!

[bcw81]

Assassinating people is insanely hard when all they do is twink out whenever danger comes there way. :/ It makes me a sad panda when I see things like this from the apartments:

Code Select Expand

*Awesome RP here leading up to be what COULD HAVE BEEN an awesome assassination all around*
>Someone backstabs you and fails
>Flee n
You flee heading north
Your attacker has arrived from the south!
Your attacker attacks you again!
>Flee s
You flee heading south
Your attacker has arrived from the north!
>get key belt
Your attacker attacks you!
>Flee n
You flee, heading north!
>Unlock door
You unlock the door, you RPing player you!
>open door
Yay playing a RPI, you open the door!
>Flee w

[Yam]

Running away from someone trying to kill you. Truly the epitome of bad roleplay.

[Synthesis]

I was surprised to see this suggested. I have never found myself wanting this kind of thing. I have wanted the opposite sort of thing though: chase code that allows you to automatically follow someone when they flee.

It keeps being suggested because people keep getting instagibbed by people running in from another room and attacking before they can react.

And people do that because other people keep walking out of the room the instant someone else enters. It's a vicious cycle.

Which brings us back to why this idea keeps coming up.

And why this idea shouldn't be implemented unless something else is done at the same time to prevent it from happening from the other end of the cycle. Personally, I'm fine with the way it is now. It's already hard enough for a single pc to take out another single pc without the use of poisons, etc as it's so easy for potential victims to get away. They don't need things swung farther into their favor.

Approach code and intra-room grid are basically neutral in this regard.

It makes it harder initially for an antagonist, because you have to close the distance, but it also makes it harder on the victim...because once that distance is closed, you have to create new distance somehow.

But, you know...there is no idea in this world so simple that -someone- won't manage to misunderstand it.

[Bacon]

It just seems to me that under a system like that, the aggressor will never be able to attack someone that doesn't wish to fight, period. I don't see how this is neutral. It basically gives potential victims who want to powergame to get away from a fight before the first attack can even be thrown, the ability to do so every time.

*character sees someone try to "approach" them*

*character leaves before they can close the distance*

[brytta.leofa]

It just seems to me that under a system like that, the aggressor will never be able to attack someone that doesn't wish to fight, period.

...Hence, chase. You and your erdlu will never catch them in the first room, but in five moves they're yours to disarm and pulverate.

[Bacon]

Meh, too drawn out and complicated. I prefer the way it is. I'm not interested in multiple moves and making it all take longer than it sometimes does already. I prefer fast, simple, and to the point.

[Synthesis]

It just seems to me that under a system like that, the aggressor will never be able to attack someone that doesn't wish to fight, period. I don't see how this is neutral. It basically gives potential victims who want to powergame to get away from a fight before the first attack can even be thrown, the ability to do so every time.

*character sees someone try to "approach" them*

*character leaves before they can close the distance*

Again, you're mostly wrong about this, as well.

You would only be able to avoid being approached if you were codedly faster than the thing approaching you (or your mount is faster).

This makes sense: realistically, a dwarf should  never be able to close to melee distance with an elf that was actively trying to avoid him, and vice versa (a dwarf should never be able to outrun an elf trying to chase him down...magick notwithstanding, obviously).

It does make stealth much more important, since presumably sneak and hide would function in some way to prevent the approach from being noticed--but again, this makes sense.

[Bacon]

I would still absolutely hate that system, that's just my personal preference. I prefer how the game currently does it. I hate how much it fucks over warrior pcs in particular and slows down pvp conflicts. I also don't like how much more powerful that system would make d-elves in particular.

[Synthesis]

I would still absolutely hate that system, that's just my personal preference. I prefer how the game currently does it. I hate how much it fucks over warrior pcs in particular and slows down pvp conflicts.

You still have archery and throw, man.   You don't have to hit everything with an axe.