Instead of the approach code

[BleakOne]

You don't have to hit everything with an axe.

Lies. 

[Bacon]

Like I said, further nerfs warriors in regards to pvp. It takes away their biggest advantage in combat vs other guilds and hands that advantage away to other guilds instead.

[Synthesis]

Like I said, further nerfs warriors in regards to pvp. It takes away their biggest advantage in combat vs other guilds and hands that advantage away to other guilds instead.

Well, you really shouldn't be able to sprint a league in 2-3 seconds or whatever the lag delay is, and start laying into someone's face, anyway.

That's not really a "nerf," so much as a "bug fix" (see: defense nerf).

[Bacon]

I disagree. What I see here is the akin to what Wotc did with 4th edition DnD. (except in the opposite direction) They wanted to dumb it down to make it easier for new people to get into the game. They dumbed it down so far they ruined it.

You and a couple others want to overcode the crap out of Arm. If you had your way it would be overcoded to the point of ruin. If I had come across Arm years ago and it had the system you guys think it should, I wouldn't be here today. I'd have played it until the first time I ran into combat and then I'd have quit and maybe, not even played it that far depending on how bad the overcoding was.
I have no interested in playing Armageddon SIM.

I like the game the way it was when I found it and complete disagree, and always will, with overcoding and overcomplicating the game.

[Synthesis]

I don't really give a crap, one way or the other, with respect to it actually being implemented.  I just hate to see a good idea assaulted by stupid arguments. (You've now progressed to the "out of good ideas so invoke opinion" stage of argumentation, so I'll let it go now, because there's no point in arguing with people once they've reached that point.)

But anyway, yeah.  I don't really care too much.  I feel a little bad for people I kill by exploiting what I know is a half-ass system, but if that's the way y'all wants it, thats the way y'all gets it.

[Bacon]

I just hate to see a good idea assaulted by stupid arguments.  

Having a difference of opinion or preference to what I like does not make my argument stupid. You think it's a good idea. I disagree. Because my opinion (and the things I see as flaws, whether or not you do) does not coincide with yours, does not make my side of it stupid. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from trolling me with insults like that. Thank you.


Edit: I'm not going to keep going back and forth over this. I've already stated my opinion and things I see as flawed about such suggested changes. We won't see eye to eye on this so there's no point in continuing to argue about it. We both have completely different preferences on how the combat code should be and what we enjoy and do not enjoy.

[Synthesis]

I just hate to see a good idea assaulted by stupid arguments.  

Having a difference of opinion or preference to what I like does not make my argument stupid. You think it's a good idea. I disagree. Because my opinion (and the things I see as flaws, whether or not you do) does not coincide with yours, does not make my side of it stupid. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from trolling me with insults like that. Thank you.

Your opinion isn't (necessarily) stupid, which is why I stopped arguing once you backed into that particular corner.  If you like being able to spam-charge, and can tolerate being spam-charged...that's perfectly fine with me.

Your specific counter-arguments against the system were stupid, though, in the sense that every particular conception you had about an actual coded effect of the system was wrong or incompletely considered.  Have all the opinion you want, but facts are facts.

[Armaddict]

Like I said, further nerfs warriors in regards to pvp. It takes away their biggest advantage in combat vs other guilds and hands that advantage away to other guilds instead.

Warriors are far from helpless in regards to pvp.  They just got a huge buff to what wasn't broken beforehand with the flee change.

I just hate to see a good idea assaulted by stupid arguments.

Unsure of what you're talking about, since I mostly skimmed since based on the original post and a few others, I'd already put myself against this.  Simply put, adding another element of timing for what can drastically impact a situation is a bad thing in a game that's already incredibly based (and often poorly) around timing.

The whole point of approach was to fix the 'range' problem of a larger room, and this doesn't do anything remotely close to what that idea was suggesting.  Well.  Aside for give another reason to spam movement.

[Synthesis]

Like I said, further nerfs warriors in regards to pvp. It takes away their biggest advantage in combat vs other guilds and hands that advantage away to other guilds instead.

Warriors are far from helpless in regards to pvp.  They just got a huge buff to what wasn't broken beforehand with the flee change.

I just hate to see a good idea assaulted by stupid arguments.

Unsure of what you're talking about, since I mostly skimmed since based on the original post and a few others, I'd already put myself against this.  Simply put, adding another element of timing for what can drastically impact a situation is a bad thing in a game that's already incredibly based (and often poorly) around timing.

The whole point of approach was to fix the 'range' problem of a larger room, and this doesn't do anything remotely close to what that idea was suggesting.  Well.  Aside for give another reason to spam movement.

Well, that's sort of a good point, but the approach and intra-room grid aren't designed to completely eliminate the timing problem, because only a turn-based system can completely eliminate the effects of lag, slow player response, and poor typing skills.  The idea is to bring the movement system somewhat more in line with what would be realistic, and allow people to at least respond effectively to incoming threats.  One (boring) way to do that is to just increase movement delays.  I think approach+IRG is a much more robust and interesting system, that would eventually allow for some very nifty code to be built on top of it, but I'm not going to digress into that.

[X-D]

I've hated every approach or inter room grid system I've ever run across. That is not saying it is impossible to make something workable, but given the number of what I consider fails I've seen...highly improbable.

As to archery and throw...I might have agreed with you a few years ago, but they have since been nerfed down to near uselessness at least as far as PVP is concerned.

[Morrolan]

I see that most of the arguments against this boil down to two camps:

1) This does not really solve the problem.
2) "I do not want the system to change."

Group one simply disagrees that this is a good solution to a problem. I believe that this is a relatively small fix to make a large difference, but I could be wrong (ask the coders). Mostly, the arguments have been well-reasoned and calm.

Group two has generally been quite emotive (in the actual sense). It has also been quite insistent on seeing the change primarily from a PvP perspective. It involves the occasional reference to "nerf"ing warriors, somehow seeming to imply that Arm should be "balanced" or at least that the balance should not change.  Group two and I disagree. I suspect, over the fundamentals of this game and why it is fun.

This change is meant to put a little more "give" in the system...so that people see the "surprise mekillot" for more that, say 4 seconds before it stomps them to death.

Yes, this may change the game, including PvP [though why we care so much about this one game subculture, I have no idea]. But it will not change it more than the Warrior/slipknife. I am sorry if my idea threatens to take away Warriors' "sneak attack" equivalent. Well, they are warriors, per the help file:

In nearly all warriors there exists some notion of honour and fairness, and often a vague conception of glory.

Yes, if this idea where ever implemented, one-on-one kills by warriors might be more dependent on:

• Overwhelming force (being that much better, use multiple attackers, use tactics to prevent escape)
• Combining skills with other guilds (have a ranger or assassin friend)
• Getting the other person to agree to a duel (my personal favorite)

I do not see any of those things as a bad idea.