Discussion thread - Extended Subguilds

[RogueGunslinger]

It is for me.

[jstorrie]

It'll be nice to be able to make a character that can do their crafting skill they're supposed to be somewhat experienced with to some kind of useful degree from the get go. Or skinning, climb, forage, scan, hunt...etc. This is totally not just for "people who want to kill".

I think you've missed my point. The skills you've mentioned are all relatively trivial to raise in-game. In comparison, the combat skills are both much more dangerous and much more tedious to raise.

[Maso]

It'll be nice to be able to make a character that can do their crafting skill they're supposed to be somewhat experienced with to some kind of useful degree from the get go. Or skinning, climb, forage, scan, hunt...etc. This is totally not just for "people who want to kill".

I think you've missed my point. The skills you've mentioned are all relatively trivial to raise in-game. In comparison, the combat skills are both much more dangerous and much more tedious to raise.

They're also harder to raise with CGP...because they're capped. The point is there are plenty of players (and their characters) who don't necessarily even want to raise their combat skills...but will still have an interest in skill bumping...so I think it's pretty good all round.

(Omg. I can't wait...."So...potential employee...what are you good at?" "Oh...My Pa taught me a thing or two about making weapons!" rather than... "I think somewhere...deep inside my soul...I feel a nagging potential in me for sword crafting."

[number13]

In comparison, the combat skills are both much more dangerous and much more tedious to raise.

With the exception of sap/backstab, I'd say much more tedious than dangerous.  But your point stands. While it would be nice to be able to start the game with a decent score in ride/contact/cooking, given how fast and easily those skills improve it feels like a waste to burn an entire point on them for a single bump when you could instead invest the point into a skill that is relatively difficult or costly to raise (like backstab, poisoning or crafting skills with expensive materials).  I know it's probably considered bad and wrong value a skill based on metagame considerations like that, but the skill bump system is inherently metagamish.  (opposed to, say, a system that granted skills based on character age).

Regardless, the system as Nyr's post describes it is "good enough" for me.  I'd definitely at least want to try to roll a character under it, and the associated karma burn might even inspire me to stick with a character that I might otherwise decide is boring with in the first day of play.  But for the playtest, I can't see myself apping another character, waiting another six days, and having the goal posts move again.

[jstorrie]

(Omg. I can't wait...."So...potential employee...what are you good at?" "Oh...My Pa taught me a thing or two about making weapons!" rather than... "I think somewhere...deep inside my soul...I feel a nagging potential in me for sword crafting."

Wouldn't it be more effective, in this case, to just spend 2 CGP on subguild_weaponsmith?

[A Large Bag]

(Omg. I can't wait...."So...potential employee...what are you good at?" "Oh...My Pa taught me a thing or two about making weapons!" rather than... "I think somewhere...deep inside my soul...I feel a nagging potential in me for sword crafting."

Wouldn't it be more effective, in this case, to just spend 2 CGP on subguild_weaponsmith?

That doesn't make you any better at it from the start. Just allows for you to do more later on down the road.

[roughneck]

(Omg. I can't wait...."So...potential employee...what are you good at?" "Oh...My Pa taught me a thing or two about making weapons!" rather than... "I think somewhere...deep inside my soul...I feel a nagging potential in me for sword crafting."

It's a little off topic, but I've always thought that explaining subguilds as a desire to learn something, rather than 'a nagging potentioal deep in someone's soul' is an easier way to rp it.  RP'ing it this way especially makes sense when you're looking at the context of your PC seeking employment from a merchant house, where you're likely to start at the bottom of the totem pole, much like a mechanic apprentice IRL who takes the job because he has an interest in mechanics, not because he has a luminous compulsion towards car engines.

The skill bumps will be a cool way for people who desperately want to play a PC that learned skills in the past, although I doubt I'd ever bump anything except a weapons skill.

[Maso]

I think it just allows for a little more flexibility in character personalities and realism. Not everyone gets to do what they 'want', sometimes they just have to do what they can do. So it's nice to be able to have a character that has other aspirations besides sewing...in fact...they hate sewing...but they were taught sewing by the Ma so they can use that to make some 'sid in Kadius while they plan world domination. Yes this can be got round...your character could say they want to sew and be lying...but why find RP comprimises for code restrictions when you can just play a character as you actually want to with support from the code?

[HavokBlue]

When you apply for a skillbumped character, let's say you ask for a bump to a skill that starts at apprentice for your chosen guild. Would it be bumped to journeyman, or are skills reduced to novice before bumps are applied?

[RogueGunslinger]

lol. Yes, they're reduced to novice.

[HavokBlue]

That's kind of silly.

[Sephiroto]

lol. Yes, they're reduced to novice.

That makes no sense to me.  The code should take into account racial/regional skill bumps and apply them either before or stack them on after the CGP skill bumps.

[catchall]

lol. Yes, they're reduced to novice.

I, too, would like to interpret this statement as totally true and sincere.

[Gunnerblaster]

Would be nice if someone could make a compilation post consisting of all the major changes, etc.

[Adhira]

Not sure what major changes you mean.  The post in staff announcements is up to date.

[HavokBlue]

It would be cool if a staff member would clarify exactly how skillbumps are currently working (what skills can be bumped x amount of times, whether or not they're reduced to novice before bumps are applied, etc etc)

[RogueGunslinger]

I clarified it, based on a post from Friday who has recieved said bumps, earlier in the thread. Which is why I laughed. Because everyone keeps asking the same damn questions a hundred times.

[HavokBlue]

Probably because it's a 15 page thread with no unified source of up-to-date information that provides answers to all the questions.

[Delirium]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,42571.0.html

[HavokBlue]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,42571.0.html

That particular thread answers neither of my questions, which, evidently, some other people also have.

[Delirium]

Oh. Well, hopefully it helped a little.

[Nyr]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,42571.0.html

That particular thread answers neither of my questions, which, evidently, some other people also have.

It seems to answer one of your questions.

In addition skill bumps will be allowed via the special application process based on the guidelines previously outlined by Morgenes:

This will give them the option to bump starting skills one 'level' of mastery per CGP spent.  If this would cause them to branch, they would NOT get access to those branched skills.  Only starting skills are available to be bumped.  Skills that are available to everyone with training (like ride, pilot and watch) would be available for bumping, the initial buy on those would be one CGP.

Some skills will need to be limited/restricted from being bumped.  For instance, weapon skills will not be bump-able more than one or two at most.  Offense/defense will not be an option.

To add to this.  Skills such as hide, sneak and steal are also subject to the two bump maximum.

As for your second question, we do not skillreset people prior to doing skill boosts.

[HavokBlue]

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification.

[Semper]

Would someone be willing to point me to where there's a summary of everything involved with this extended subguild implementation? Or if one doesn't exist, list all the changes in general? I didn't want to read through 15 pages of thread... 

[Delirium]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,42571.0.html

About 5 posts up.