Discuss pending change to flee from Staff Announcements

[Morgenes]

Uh the consequence is that you do not move into the next room?

Right, and I guarantee if you give people the choice of getting to flee and having a chance at being hit, or not getting to flee, they would choose the former over the latter.  But if you really think so, go ahead and start a poll.  If the players would rather have a failed flee mean you don't get away and stay in the same room, I'll change it and get rid of the free hit if you do get away.

BUT...just to be clear, this would mean if you have no flee skill, your chances of actually getting away from a fight would be slim to none.

If you had two people fighting each other without the flee skill the only way the combat ends if both disengage, or one goes down.

[Titania]

Give everyone the flee skill.

[Morgenes]

Give everyone the flee skill.

No, certainly not at a level that would result in significant success.

[Titania]

Give everyone the flee skill.

No, certainly not at a level that would result in significant success.

Why not at a capped level. I don't see the problem.

[brytta.leofa]

Right, and I guarantee if you give people the choice of getting to flee and having a chance at being hit, or not getting to flee, they would choose the former over the latter.  But if you really think so, go ahead and start a poll.  If the players would rather have a failed flee mean you don't get away and stay in the same room, I'll change it and get rid of the free hit if you do get away.

BUT...just to be clear, this would mean if you have no flee skill, your chances of actually getting away from a fight would be slim to none.

What about, seriously, making flee success depend only partly on the skill, but adding a delay?  You're allowing extra hits both ways--scrab hits you, you hit scrab--but not explicitly; you're just spending extra combat rounds there because your flee didn't work out.

Flee skill = 0% ==> 25% chance of fleeing.
Flee skill = 100% ==> 95% chance of fleeing.

Balance it out by adjusting the zero-skill chance of fleeing and the time delay before you can try to flee again.

It's very similar in outcome to what you added, but...well, aside from the time delay, this is what I used to assume the flee skill did.  And it reduces or ends the phenomenon of flee-spamming.

[Morgenes]

Give everyone the flee skill.

No, certainly not at a level that would result in significant success.

Why not at a capped level. I don't see the problem.

We see being able to successfully get away from combat as a combat skill, that is inherit to classes that work on combat.  As it stands, Armageddon is not a classless system.  There are choices you have to make.

If you get the players behind this I would say that unless your guild/subguild provided you the skill, the most you would see a novice skill level.

[Titania]

Everyone gets skinning right? I thought so anyway. Skinning of an animal is not in anyone's instinct.

Running away is, so I think everyone should get the flee skill. Sure merchants and etc would be poor at it and combat characters and rogue characters would be better. But running away is something anyone should be able to do.

I'm not so much against the extra attacks anyway. I am really against not being able to turn it off in sparring and the fact if I did turn it off no one would get better at flee.

[Case]

Could make it a skillcheck, which if failed, automatically lodges a player complaint against the assailant due to poor RP/staff favouritism/defense nerf.

If you critfail, you instantly die and send a res request for a 'bullshit' death.

Seriously though:
Flee a hit early if it matters so much and wait and see if Morg can come up with a plan. No reason to hassle the guy. Staff aren't changing code to be horrible.

[Morgenes]

Everyone gets skinning right? I thought so anyway. Skinning of an animal is not in anyone's instinct.

Running away is, so I think everyone should get the flee skill. Sure merchants and etc would be poor at it and combat characters and rogue characters would be better. But running away is something anyone should be able to do.

I'm not so much against the extra attacks anyway. I am really against not being able to turn it off in sparring and the fact if I did turn it off no one would get better at flee.

Everyone has a tiny chance to skin if you aren't trained (no guild or subguild).  It is equivalent to about a 1% chance.  

You could make the same argument about sneaking, or hiding, or quitting in the wilderness, or backstabbing or hitting someone from behind (sapping).

As it stands EVERYONE can flee.  Everyone can't get away from combat without opening themselves up to attack.  And personally, I like it that way.

If we changed the code so that the skill test was whether or not you got away and added a delay, I guarantee it would result in FAR more deaths than the code change as implemented.

[valeria]

I like the way flee works now.  I wouldn't like a separate toggle because that would be one more thing for me to forget to appropriately turn on and off, and one more thing to get nagged about whether I have it on or off for the purposes of sparring.  But I agree that if there was a toggle, it shouldn't be attached to mercy.

[Titania]

Everyone gets skinning right? I thought so anyway. Skinning of an animal is not in anyone's instinct.

Running away is, so I think everyone should get the flee skill. Sure merchants and etc would be poor at it and combat characters and rogue characters would be better. But running away is something anyone should be able to do.

I'm not so much against the extra attacks anyway. I am really against not being able to turn it off in sparring and the fact if I did turn it off no one would get better at flee.

Everyone has a tiny chance to skin if you aren't trained (no guild or subguild).  It is equivalent to about a 1% chance.  

You could make the same argument about sneaking, or hiding, or quitting in the wilderness, or backstabbing or hitting someone from behind (sapping).

As it stands EVERYONE can flee.  Everyone can't get away from combat without opening themselves up to attack.  And personally, I like it that way.

If we changed the code so that the skill test was whether or not you got away and added a delay, I guarantee it would result in FAR more deaths than the code change as implemented.

Well I have never seen a character without skin skill, even not picking an outdoorsmansly subguild. I guess all warriors get it.  I think you are being a little ridiculous comparing sap and backstab to running away. The others if capped low enough I wouldn't care as long as everyone got low capped scan and listen .

And, personally I don't it that way. For one reason is that sparring is too dangerous as it is. I almost think we should have a sparring_mode_on flag where damage is capped.

[musashi]

There are plenty of guilds who do not get the skin skill. I think there are only 4 guilds that actually get it.

Ride or forage would be a better skill to use for your argument I think.

[Titania]

My bad, I've been on the same character for two years, haven't really had much chance to check out all the main guilds.

[Bacon]

With the exception of not having the choice of whether or not you attempt the parting shot, I like what I've seen with the flee change so far. I also agree with what Morg said about it being a combat skill and more about trying to get away without getting hit than just the ability to try and get away at all.

[rishenko]

If we want to go with some realism, I would looooove to see the ability to flee be inversely proportional to the percentage of HP. The closer you are to 100%, the easier it is to get away. The closer, percentage wise, to 0 hp, the harder it is to flee. I would imagine this being an exponential curve that doesn't really pick up until you are getting relatively low. Now, you have the realistic reflection of life.

Max of 105hp:
Below 20-30hp? You have to be hurting pretty bad, and definitely wouldn't be running fast. Have to succeed a check to get away.
Below 15-20hp? Severe pain and blood loss/constant heaving for poison/severely battered body. You can't run, just walk. Have to succeed a higher check.
Below 1-15hp? LOL. You're crawling, barely able to sustain consciousness. Difficult check to escape.

Done.

[Synthesis]

Yeah right, then everyone would be an assassin.

[Kastion]

I like the way it is now, and if you changed it to where if you fail then you stay in the room everyone would die unless they do some major sparring before ever engaging in real combat. The only thing I would like to see is a master flee on a class that gets it at a high level gets some cool thing like kick, and disarm do.

[Morgenes]

Updated announcement thread, but wanted to throw it here.  Based on your feedback, we have changed mercy to behave like nosave, you can specify how you will be merciful. 

Syntax: mercy [status|off|all|kill|flee]

>mercy
You must provide one of the following toggles:
  status : Show status of mercy options (this message)
     off : Show no mercy!
     all : Merciful on all counts.
    kill : Will automatically take the killing blow.
    flee : Will attack fleeing victims.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,42567.msg658480.html#new

[bcw81]

What's the difference between 'mercy off' and 'mercy kill'?

[Morgenes]

What's the difference between 'mercy off' and 'mercy kill'?

'mercy off' will turn off both 'kill' and 'flee' options, making you take the killing blow and swing at fleeing enemies.

'mercy all' will turn on both, making you withold the killing blow and not swing at fleeing enemies.

'mercy kill' will turn on or off 'mercy kill' depending on what state it was in.

'mercy flee' will turn on or off 'mercy flee' depending on what state it was in.

[brytta.leofa]

'mercy off' will turn off both 'kill' and 'flee' options, making you take the killing blow and swing at fleeing enemies.
'mercy all' will turn on both, making you withold the killing blow and not swing at fleeing enemies.
'mercy kill' will turn on or off 'mercy kill' depending on what state it was in.
'mercy flee' will turn on or off 'mercy flee' depending on what state it was in.

So, "mercy off; mercy flee" will cause you to try to no-kiddin' kill people who stay, but be merciful to them that run?

> mercy moneychangers

[BleakOne]

'mercy off' will turn off both 'kill' and 'flee' options, making you take the killing blow and swing at fleeing enemies.
'mercy all' will turn on both, making you withold the killing blow and not swing at fleeing enemies.
'mercy kill' will turn on or off 'mercy kill' depending on what state it was in.
'mercy flee' will turn on or off 'mercy flee' depending on what state it was in.

So, "mercy off; mercy flee" will cause you to try to no-kiddin' kill people who stay, but be merciful to them that run?

> mercy moneychangers

Sort of a "Get out of here or we'll do this the hard way!" thing.

[RogueGunslinger]

Nice! Slick bit of code.

[Bacon]

Sweet. Now I like the flee change completely. 

[Titania]

Thanks for giving us the option.