Antagonize.... like a Boss.

[Cutthroat]

I don't think Synthesis' advice is entirely serious, jriley. There are points in there, though snarky, that make sense, but I wholeheartedly disagree that it should be advice given to new players.

Advice to new players:
-Use the helper system to get better acquainted with the game
-Read all the docs before applying for your first character (This usually ends up being by #5 for most people, myself included)
-Send in weekly reports to Staff to keep them appraised of who your character is; even if your character isn't in a clan, there are Indy Staff that love watching over you.

Your characters are unknown, unfamiliar to Staff, and feel like 'absentee parents' because, more likely than not, you are not keeping in close touch with them. I won't pretend that I know the entire situation behind your account or the time you have spent here, but that is the wager I would make. If you make weekly reports, Staff will be very intimate with your character's plans, motivations, and goals.

I agree with this. I'd just add it doesn't even need to be weekly. Not everyone has time for weekly reports and staff ask them from players in leadership positions for the most part anyway. Biweekly or monthly reports could suit particular players better depending on what their PC is involved in.

[Nyr]

It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

I rarely make requests. When I put in a request saying that if <this set of circumstances happens> then <these people> will die, the staff simultaneously told me they know nothing of my character and then, while knowing nothing of my character,  told me how it was not IC. In my opinion if you give them a heads up and they don't like your action, IC as it may be, they will just find a way to make you the bad guy.

I hate to say this, but I actually agree with this post, as well as most of what Synthesis has to say above.  Despite the fact that multiple, official postings seem to contradict that this sort of player experience even happens.  In fact, the series of emphatic denials really only serves to emphasize that this is an undocumented problem.  


Unfortunately when I receive correction from staff members it typically involves a situation where the staff don't really seem to have any conception of who my character is, who I am as a player or what I am trying to accomplish in any particular scene.  

After years of absentee parenting, I've really just gotten used to doing pretty much everything for my character on my own.  I mean, the staff code the game.  They admin the game.  They approve my character for play, but after that pretty much everything cool that happens to my character is the result of what I'm doing or something another player is doing.  When a crash happens, staff are unresponsive to replacing the stuff I lost.  When I want to impact the game world, the staff generally try to convey the fact that they'd just prefer for me to go mine some obsidian or something.  

I don't think that this is personal.  I don't think that this is targeted.  I don't think that the staff are bad people.  But I'd really prefer that any new players to the game, who read this thread, receive the (far more honest) advice from Synthesis above that generally says that if you want something cool to happen, you have to do it yourself.  

Honestly, if the staff are too busy to hold our hand all of the time, I'd prefer that they were honest about this rather than trying to put official spin on the situation and say that they'd really really love an inbox full of player requests right now.  No they wouldn't.  They're inboxes are already full.  They're too busy.  We're on our own.  We make the characters.  We make the plots.  We're the change.  



disclaimer: obviously, even in this climate if you're going to make a post like this it's important to point out, for the benefit of newer players, that the senior players and staff generally enjoy an amicable relationship, that the game has improved a lot over the past few years, that I generally support the direction that the game is going and that players can count on the staff to listen politely to constructive criticism.  

Your post doesn't match up with your account history or request history.  You've not once placed a reimbursement request, so how could we have replaced what you lost?  You've not once put in a character report, so how could we have conveyed anything to you?  You once placed a question request asking for help.  It was replied to promptly and the reply required more information which was never provided.  The request was eventually closed after no reply was imminent, but even in that instance, the information you requested was provided in as general a sense as possible.  You've had a special application approved, a family role (part of another family) approved, a family role (your own family role) approved, etc.  Your responses from staff seem timely and adequate.  

You're entitled to ignore us as much as possible and just play as if we are not present, but to pretend that we have done nothing for you, have too much to do, and don't do anything for the playerbase?  That's just plain disingenuous.

[Down Under]

I think this is a case of posturing without actual evidence to backup claims of injustice. I think claims, from time to time (some that I have made myself) have the appropriate amount of evidence in Staff / Player relations, but in this case -- If you want to make a cake, be prepared to eat it.

Back on topic -- Antagonists need protagonists. I don't think playing the latter is a bad thing in Armageddon; everything is relative. One person's villain is another person's hero. I think playing characters that truly BELIEVE in themselves and their opinions, and what they are doing is the ONLY way...Those black and white mentalities tend to polarize situations, making it Us Vs Them. Red Fangs never thought what they were doing was bad; neither did the Haruch Kemad, neither did the Naenn'Tru (to those that get the reference). Pure Evil believes what it is doing is Right. Pure Evil doesn't really have a place in a morally ambiguous world like Zalanthas, but you get the idea.

[Delirium]

One person's villain is another person's hero.

That there is the truth. Hero/villain, in this game, depends entirely on where you stand.

[brytta.leofa]

When a crash happens, staff are unresponsive to replacing the stuff I lost.

I've always (meaning a couple of times?) been reimbursed in a timely manner, except for that King James Bible that Nyr now insists never existed.

[Little_Cacophony]

A side note on reimbursement request speed:

I have around 14 reimbursement requests on my current PC alone and they are all responded in a timely fashion. I am not talking about just one or two items here. Most of the time it is bagful of stuffs I dig out from the log. I feel totally embarassed nowdays to apply for reimbursement requests.. (It helps that we don't crash much any more) I think the character report requests are slow though. Why does it take a few days or a week to respond to my report? Staff are discussing over my character report? But there isn't anything important in it! I think.

Back on topic:

Antagonist support.

I used to get very upset because when I play an antagonist type of role, I see all the 'protagonists' strut around with full staff support. So unfair! Why are their clan staff so responsive! They fucking babysit those sponsored roles! I want to change my clan!

Then my clan staff would ask me to let them know if there is anything I need staff help on, and I would get stuck. Not because my clan staff are not helpful, because I cannot think of anything my clan staff can do for me which I cannot do for myself, given enough time and effort and a little roleplay.

I feel it is not easy to roleplay an antagonist. Not because of the lack of staff support, or visibility for raiders, or those kind of shit. It is most difficult because of protagonists' response.

It is so hard to rp the evil overlord nowdays. Those hero types will remember you for all eternity over the littlest things and will howl for your blood like packs of wolves.

Antagonist should unite together and form the villain union! Down with the heroes!

[Kismetic]

When a crash happens, staff are unresponsive to replacing the stuff I lost.

I've always (meaning a couple of times?) been reimbursed in a timely manner, except for that King James Bible that Nyr now insists never existed.

so that's why Steinal was destroyed

[Talia]

I think the character report requests are slow though. Why does it take a few days or a week to respond to my report? Staff are discussing over my character report? But there isn't anything important in it! I think.

Some points to consider:

-- Our guideline for replying to or resolving character reports is 5 days. Our actual numbers show that on average, we resolve those requests within 3 to 4 days. So, we're firmly within our target.

-- We like to give all interested staff a chance to look over the character reports and add their notes (which players never see). Often, if you've CCed other clans on your report, those staffers will specifically weigh in on whatever issues you've brought up, or just might acknowledge they've seen the report. Then after this feedback happens, your clan staff will resolve your report request. This takes a couple to a few days to do.

-- Even though you might think there's nothing important in your report, staff might not share that opinion. Especially because we do see all the other requests coming in from other players and other clans, and some of that stuff is interrelated with what your PC is doing. There is cross-referencing and cross-talk that happens.

On the subject of reimbursements that's generally been brought up, again if you look at our actual numbers available on the website, you'll see a couple things:

-- There aren't a lot of reimbursements that get requested, overall, and that is definitely a byproduct of more server uptime and fewer crashes. Hurrah for stability!

-- Our average resolution time for reimbursements is in the 1 to 2 days range. (Often it's less than 1 day.) That might not be fast enough for some players, but personally, I think it's pretty fabulous turnaround. Reimbursement requests are difficult and time-consuming to do, they require staff to actually be in game to do them (some other requests don't require that), and often players don't communicate clearly in those requests ("uh, I lost my sword, it might have been obsidian, can I get my sword back?"). I know from my experience staff-side that as a group, we regard these requests as high-priority after a crash and get them done as quickly as we can (especially if they actually have an impact on the survivability of the PC).

So, yeah. You're all free to think whatever you like about whether or not we do a good job, it being a free country and all that jazz. But, I do not believe these opinions are supported by the available facts.

[Nyr]

It is so hard to rp the evil overlord nowdays.

There are plenty of resources on this on the forum.  I can vouch for the things I've said at least:

Thing 1
Thing 2
Thing 3 (though I mostly quoted other good things)

These might help antagonists be antagonists, reminding the player to play a PC that has solid reasoning behind the things that they do.

[Saellyn]

Now I get to ask.

If you want to do villainous stuff, staff will help you out aslong as you keep reporting and giving them an idea of your character, right?

And by help, I mean they might say "Okay, this was a good idea, this fits, this however seems a little quirky."

Or... maybe you can say what staff is willing to do.

[Talia]

Now I get to ask.

If you want to do villainous stuff, staff will help you out aslong as you keep reporting and giving them an idea of your character, right?

And by help, I mean they might say "Okay, this was a good idea, this fits, this however seems a little quirky."

Or... maybe you can say what staff is willing to do.

Staff is committed to responding to your reports and requests in a timely, informative, and comprehensive manner. Staff is committed to supporting player-driven plots that make sense. Staff is committed to making sure the world of Zalanthas (VNPC, NPC, and PC) responds in an appropriate and realistic manner to what players do in game.

There's no guarantee that just because you report to us, we'll support what you're doing. But you will definitely get feedback of some kind.

[John]

I think the character report requests are slow though. Why does it take a few days or a week to respond to my report?

They definitely are. I had a character report that required no staff action (it was just a "here's my character after week 1. I'm not dead yet!") it took them over a week to get back to me (from memory).

I'm following one of the formats posted here where I have an intro paragraph, a table of contents and then further information. I'm making sure to highlight any questions or important info in that first paragraph before the ToC.

It is so hard to rp the evil overlord nowdays. Those hero types will remember you for all eternity over the littlest things and will howl for your blood like packs of wolves.

Best way to play an evil overlord is to first convince everyone that you're actually a hero.

-- Our guideline for replying to or resolving character reports is 5 days. Our actual numbers show that on average, we resolve those requests within 3 to 4 days. So, we're firmly within our target.

I thought it was about a week (to be honest a day or two over). I looked at the dates, it was 6 days. I was out by 33%-50%

So assuming you guys do stick to the 5 days response, then players will see it as 8 days or so. This isn't to say 5 (or even 6) days is too long to wait before responding. It's just to say that player's perspective will make it seem even longer, no matter how quickly you reply.

Not really something for anyone to fix. Just an observation for everyone to keep in mind.

[John]

I think playing characters that truly BELIEVE in themselves and their opinions, and what they are doing is the ONLY way...

I agree. This causes me to get into trouble in D&D because I keep trying to play Arm character and everyone keeps calling them evil. It doesn't matter that I can give them a big long rant as to why we must do what I say we do. At the end they simply say "it's evil."

I play in Golarion where people are expected to treat half-orcs much the same way Zalanthan half-elves are treated. I seem to be the only player that consistently does it and it's constantly causing in-character arguments between me and everyone else. I have to stop myself from saying things like "but he's just as bad as a damn 'rinthi, perhaps worse" because they just don't get the reference.

On the staff vs player front. Since I got back I've been handing in reports. No surprise I'm going through characters at my usual place (very bloody often). In the past where I've simply continued to play my characters with no feedback from staff, I'm actually getting some comiseration and feedback as to how I handled that particular character in terms of roleplaying. It's nice to get a "good job" done after my character dies   After 90 characters, I've gotten feedback on a character maybe a dozen times? I like the new system

[Derain]

On something said way earlier, I used to think that if I sent in a report to staff that they would do everything in they're power to ruin my plot or try to throw roadblocks in the way.  THIS IS NOT THE CASE.  I mean I have messed up and been in lots of trouble with the staff and confessed to a rule I broke and since fixed my proformance, (I think).  But the staff has not let me down once if you wish up and have a valid way to start a commotion or get something huge moving ICly they will assist as long as it is realistic.

[Down Under]

I think the character report requests are slow though. Why does it take a few days or a week to respond to my report?

They definitely are. I had a character report that required no staff action (it was just a "here's my character after week 1. I'm not dead yet!") it took them over a week to get back to me (from memory).

I'm following one of the formats posted here where I have an intro paragraph, a table of contents and then further information. I'm making sure to highlight any questions or important info in that first paragraph before the ToC.

It is so hard to rp the evil overlord nowdays. Those hero types will remember you for all eternity over the littlest things and will howl for your blood like packs of wolves.

Best way to play an evil overlord is to first convince everyone that you're actually a hero.

-- Our guideline for replying to or resolving character reports is 5 days. Our actual numbers show that on average, we resolve those requests within 3 to 4 days. So, we're firmly within our target.

I thought it was about a week (to be honest a day or two over). I looked at the dates, it was 6 days. I was out by 33%-50%

So assuming you guys do stick to the 5 days response, then players will see it as 8 days or so. This isn't to say 5 (or even 6) days is too long to wait before responding. It's just to say that player's perspective will make it seem even longer, no matter how quickly you reply.

Not really something for anyone to fix. Just an observation for everyone to keep in mind.

The only thing i'd say in response to your character report observations is -- While you may think there is nothing terribly important or that your report is simply informative, Staff may find a point or two to discuss amongst themselves. Conversely, because there is nothing terribly important, or there are no questions that require Staff discussion, it may shoot further down on their priority list to approve as there's a dozen other requests that are time-sensitive to get through.

[Adhira]

I know that many often wonder why their character reports just can't be resolved in a day.  Talia has listed all the reasons, and the timeframes that we ask staff to work in.  To give some more perspective, if a staff member is resolving clan reports within a 1 - 2 day timeframe they will get asked to 'slow down'.  It may be frustrating to you but remember, while only one staff member may respond to you every clan group has 2 STs and 1 Admin (ideally).  These people have RL's and it's unfair to expect that they will all get on everyday to make the comments and read the reports, we want to make sure everyone has an opportunity and so we ask that staff not resolve these things too quickly.  We also like other staff to check in on reports in case there is something there that affects their clan, this can take time.   

We have a pretty stellar group of volunteer staff who do take the time to check the request tool every day, who do read the reports, bugs, complaints, ideas, reimbursements, forum requests and so on.  Please be patient with us, sometimes things do slip but we make every effort to keep to our timeframes and be as professional with this as possible for a bunch of volunteers.

[Thunkkin]

Question: If a character dies between the time of a report being filed and the report being resolved, should the player cancel the report so that staff don't waste time on it? Or should it not be canceled so that staff can at least have a record of what was going on in the timeframe before the death? What if the last report was fairly unimportant anyway ...

[Talia]

It's nice if you let your clan staff resolve it. You can add to it in the request tool and just let them know the PC has died, if you like. If it gets cancelled, then staff may not even really see it, and may not get a chance to say goodbye and thanks for all the gith.

[Dakota]

moving away from the request derail...

I was thinking more about this and the Red Shirt thread + what Nyr wrote about giving examples. I'm still fairly new to arm (less than 2 years in), but I have, what I consider, to be an example of a GREAT antagonist that didn't cause any major plots, world shaking changes, etc.

It's been about 17 months since this player died IG and I'm 99% sure everyone around him is dead.. So staff, if I'm overstepping my boundaries here please nuke or edit this post, but I'll keep it pseudo vague.

Their was a southern PC named Andy. He was a racist, drunken, misogynist. I ran into him when Andy decided to go north, despite hating Tuluki pansies. He didn't last long once he got to Tuluk but his reputation preceded him. Over the course of an RL week at the end of which he died (to nothing related to the events below), my PC witnessed him doing the following:

• -Sitting in a Tavern in Tuluk, a elf sits down beside him at the bar. He starts to lament in a drunken state how the elf is ruining the air around him and messing with the state of the establishment. He picks a fight with the elf using a mix of emotes and brawl and proceeds to get his ass kicked... But the elf left. Claiming victory, he proceeds to try and convince a female to have sex with him. When she refuses he freaks out, makes a scene and accuses her of being a dirty breed.
• -Later when hunting with another PC in the grasses, he comes across a d-elf hunting as well. After a lengthy, emoted scene laced with racism and biggotry, he picks a fight with the d-elf. The other PC Andy is with just looks on in both horror and awe. When the d-elf flees, Andy then turns on the other PC, nearly attacking him and foaming at the mouth because the other PC didn't help kill the mangy elf. Other PC was blamed for the elf getting away. Andy refused to talk to that PC again and openly called him a "nekker fucker" in all the taverns in Tuluk.
• -He would ridicule northerners. A lot. He hated breeds and ridiculed them even more.
• -He lasted long enough where he was able to force a d-elf to flee from combat.
• -ALL the events caused much talk amidst the tavern sitters in the city. When Andy was asleep (logged off) everyone would RP a mix of laughter and facepalming about his previous antics.

He disappeared or died soon after. But all the tavern sitters, F-me's, hunters in the grasses at that time ALL spoke of Andy in a "god I hated him.. He was a savage and a brute and a southern scum.. But I kinda liked that guy. Hate to admit I miss him."

He didn't move worlds or lead anyone. He didn't do much of anything cept sit in taverns and hunt now and then.  The lowly grebber. But bc he constantly RP'd an antagonistic nature based on the general/documented stereotypes in arm, he added color, life, roleplay and atmosphere to those around him.

That, in my mind, makes for a far better antagonist than a twinked out d-elf raider, wind witch, sorc, templar or whatever. He got tavern sitters and low-key grebbers and hunters involved with RP. No raids, crazy plots, karma and it worked. It generated a hoard of RP for the rest of us who were too scared, too n00bish, too poor in Roleplay to dare pick on the breed, elf, d-elf... Even if we later say:   "But I gave them a lousy price and made a dirty remark after they left"...  hiding the fact we're cowards when it comes to risking our own PC for the sake of conflict and RP. And I've been guilty of that last sentence and am ashamed of it. Andy wasn't.

Andy, in my mind, won Armageddon just as much as any 150 day force-stored sorcerer or some gicker turning into an elemental or a long lived Political PC who learned all the deep sekrets of big plotz. Andy was (probably) less than 10 days played. Andy wasn't a twink. Andy had no karma. Andy was the antagonist.

Because I ran into Andy and saw / was lucky enough to have RP'd with him, I stayed and kept playing Arm for the days, weeks, months, year that followed.

[boog]

Unfortunately when I receive correction from staff members it typically involves a situation where the staff don't really seem to have any conception of who my character is, who I am as a player or what I am trying to accomplish in any particular scene.

How are the staff supposed to know about your character if you don't ever send requests in, jriley? Am I the only one confused about that?

[Fredd]

I don't think it's been a year, so i got to be scarce on the details.

But I played one raider. One. And found my raiding partner ICly well before we became raiders (in fact due to some ic circumstances, they were forced into raiding)

And it was fun. There are always a few raiders out there though. if yo can find them, and talk to them in a safish place. You might be able to form groups ICly.

[Saellyn]

Hey that's my character you're talking about who did all that.

You forgot to mention he had clawed feet, which made everything he did even better.