Armor.

[X-D]

Nah, I ignore the in game weights as far as any arguement, Many of them can stand to be bugged anyway, and I think many of them were made and the staffer or whoever was thinking stones=pounds.  

A pair of leather sleeves
These are thin leather sleeves.
value sleeves
These would seem to weigh about 8 stone.

So alright, that is 4 stone each, and if you were thinking pounds, then reasonable, but if a stone is closer to 2.5lbs, 8 pounds per sleeve is unreasonable.

OR

All beings in Zalanthas are at least 2.5 times as strong as the earth types and then it is reasonable and we need not adjust our arguements at all:)

And since the docs do state that they are stronger and healthier...I think I will go with that.

[CravenMadness]

I wonder if zalanthian armor makers have mastered the pivot joint connection or the concept of load-bearing bracing bones for full suits of armor that connect to one-another in order to properly counter-balance weight...

[Qzzrbl]

Either way, I wish heat exhaustion were taken into account.

Shit'd get hot, yo.

Even African tribal warriors who've lived in hot-as-fuck deserts for thousands of years know better than to go running around in the desert clad in leather.

But I guess we could pass that off with "ZALANTHANS ARE TOUGHER RAWR!" because we all love our heavy armors.

[X-D]

That point has been argued before. And it is a good point. But hey, since the armors are made out of mostly animals, maybe they have some nifty heat sink properties...Who knows?

Though, I do see PCs with kraths touch rather often, so maybe it does help cause it.

[Saellyn]

Either way, I wish heat exhaustion were taken into account.

Shit'd get hot, yo.

Even African tribal warriors who've lived in hot-as-fuck deserts for thousands of years know better than to go running around in the desert clad in leather.

But I guess we could pass that off with "ZALANTHANS ARE TOUGHER RAWR!" because we all love our heavy armors.

What exactly -is- the official "general" temperature of Zalanthas during the peak of the day?

[Qzzrbl]

Either way, I wish heat exhaustion were taken into account.

Shit'd get hot, yo.

Even African tribal warriors who've lived in hot-as-fuck deserts for thousands of years know better than to go running around in the desert clad in leather.

But I guess we could pass that off with "ZALANTHANS ARE TOUGHER RAWR!" because we all love our heavy armors.

What exactly -is- the official "general" temperature of Zalanthas during the peak of the day?

While a lot does carry over from real life into the game (e.g., principles of gravity, temperature, etc.)...

I'd guess about as hot as deserts IRL do-- and I'd imagine the difference between "Sahara desert" hot and "Mojave desert" hot depends on where in the game world you're in, and what the "weather" command tells you.

If I had to guess, I'd say anywhere between 100-180 degrees Fahrenheit at any given point while outside.

[Saellyn]

... Man I could follow peoples sweat trails to wherever they were going if the game had sweat trails! Wearing that much armor in this environment really -is- absolutely insane. It probably has a -huge- effect on how fast you dehydrate too, I imagine. Or might. Or could. I don't know...

[Dakota]

Well... I don't go to renfairs or any of that and am only speaking from the experience of knowing a few people who each week go outside of Prague with swords and armor and play that sort of stuff + working on a few films (Tristan and Isolde, Kingdom of Heaven, Narnia's, Charles the 4th and some others) that had a few 100 extras in heavy armor and I still keep in contact with the armorors I met on those films...

And when you put 500 extras (most of whom were rein-actors) in heavy armor... that is not made of metal but lighter plastics (so it looks heavy but isn't really).. Have then under a summer sun in 30+ degree heat.. and get them to march back and forth over a field with a charge or two in between.. THEN see a few of them start to pass out from the heat? Theirs no way I could see someone being very maneuverable in plate steel and be able to be swift and nimble with a broadsword, etc.

Even the "hero" armors in films (the ones that are actually steel that only the actor / stuntmen where) would weigh down people if it was full plate or some sort of flexible scale or heavy armor.. and they had to do some fight scene or a lot of running. Only the best stuntman could do more than a few of takes and they weren't very quick on their feet when they did it (was all camera work and tricks)

I highly doubt someone, even well trained, could move under a hot sun and be nimble and very maneuverable in heavy armor b/c  when you see a 240 lbs Maori stuntman in a mix of plate and scale armor pass out from heat in the middle of a combat scene.. All the theory and shit you read on the internet goes out the window.

[Dan]

A lot of it is conditioning your body to be able to withstand it.

I am around 12,000 feet above sea level, and we have some walking patrols that take us about six kilometers. Everyone has a vest, helmet, weapon, ammo, but a couple guys had SAWs, extra ammo, or LAW rockets. The temperature was just above a hundred or so. No one fell out.

Most of us don't look like movie stars with rippling abs and pecks that can poke your eye out either. We are just mentally, and physically able to withstand the weight, altitude, temperature and distances because it is what we do. We train with this shit by going out and doing it. I'd pit some of us against the 'Toughest-looking' guys out there when it comes to strapping on some gear and moving distances. Hitting the gym and sculpting your body to look perfect doesn't mean you are suddenly able to do this shit. Fitness helps, but I would say that the mental aspect of it is just as important.

As to heat exhaustion, I would just say that is taken into account by thirst levels and stamina. If you are riding around in all this armor, you aren't really doing a whole lot supposing the person in question has been a rider for a while and is used to it. If walking around is your thing, well damn straight you are going to get tired and have to sit for IG hours to recoup that lost stamina.

Give that 240 lbs Maori stuntman six months of using that armor every day and he'd probably not fall out. The guy didn't know his limits, or just didn't adhere to them. Obviously didn't drink enough water either.

Zalanthans are also much hardier than humans.

Edit to add: Not talking about walking down the road for six kilometers either. Mountainous areas where ten miles can take two days if you had to do it all on foot.

[Qzzrbl]

There's a difference between wearing a bunch of heavy shit, and carrying a bunch of heavy shit.

While I don't doubt those boys couldn't have made the trip, I bet they would've been a wee bit more exhausted if most of that gear was strapped to their arms and legs.

Also, I'd imagine wearing heavy shell-- or even heavy leather armor in the desert would feel like walking about in a personal oven. You can drink all the water you want, but you'd probably wind up sweating out more than what you're taking in. You can condition and train all you want, but as far as I know, it's impossible to train yourself to not sweat your tits off in a desert with a suit of bug-shell armor.

[Bacon]

As others have suggested, since this bug-shell is from bugs that live in this environment perhaps they have some heat managing properties that helped the bugs and in turn would make them cooler to wear than their real life counterparts. I tend to think this is a reasonable enough explanation. It is not has if heavier armors have no negative side effects when using them already.

[Qzzrbl]

As others have suggested though. Since this bug-shell is from bugs that live in this environment perhaps they have some heat managing properties that helped the bugs and in turn would make them cooler to wear than their real life counterparts.

Meh.

I guess that'll just have to be the explanation for it, I guess.... After so much work being put into 2.arm, I doubt anything like this would be changed for Arm's current carnation anyhow.

[Synthesis]

Fortunately the vast majority of people who are wearing heavy armor aren't actually physically exerting themselves (much) 90% of the time, because they're chilling on the back of a mount.

Desert-elves are the only ones actually running around, and most of them aren't strong enough to wear the really heavy stuff, anyway.

Ever since the defense nerf, epic half-day duels are a thing of the past.  Nowadays most fights are over before you'd even break a sweat...especially if you have the insane strength that would allow you to wear the heavy armor in the first place.

[X-D]

For the record, Wearing is much easier then carrying IRL AND in the game.

[FantasyWriter]

Even African tribal warriors who've lived in hot-as-fuck deserts for thousands of years know better than to go running around in the desert clad in leather.

But I guess we could pass that off with "ZALANTHANS ARE TOUGHER RAWR!" because we all love our heavy armors.

I want to laugh every time I see a d-elf fully clad in leather (and sometimes even heavier materials) armor instead of the loincloth, wrist and neck (and MAYBE head) protection people draw them in (which is much more realistic).

[Synthesis]

Even African tribal warriors who've lived in hot-as-fuck deserts for thousands of years know better than to go running around in the desert clad in leather.

But I guess we could pass that off with "ZALANTHANS ARE TOUGHER RAWR!" because we all love our heavy armors.

I want to laugh every time I see a d-elf fully clad in leather (and sometimes even heavier materials) armor instead of the loincloth, wrist and neck (and MAYBE head) protection people draw them in (which is much more realistic).

Unfortunately, only very experienced combat PCs with good stats have the luxury of running around with zero armor.  Everyone else is just begging to get reel-locked and die prematurely.  Carru don't really give a shit about your realistic outfit.

[jstorrie]

Tribal Earth hunters tended to fight reasonable prey animals, as opposed to, like, velociraptors and giant praying mantises and stuff. So that's a bit of apples2oranginas.

You can get away with zero armor if you're a modest Zalanthan hunter who sticks to areas which aren't frequented by crazy monsters. Gurth aren't going to reel-lock you. (They may, however, boredom-lock you.)

[Qzzrbl]

For the record, Wearing is much easier then carrying IRL AND in the game.

True, but what I meant was, "Carrying 20lb <thing> in backpack is easier than wearing 20lb <thing> on your wrist."

[John]

I remember back when people complained about how everyone decks their characters up in sandcloth at every single item slot for perceived code advantages it offers.

I've never been a combat heavy player, but these things seem to be cyclical. What often happens is a particular PC will become long lived and be known as a bad-ass. People will emulate that PCs fighting and armour styles because they'll assume it's part of his bad-assery. And so it becomes the predominant style for a while, until another PC becomes known as a bad-ass with a different style.

[Synthesis]

I remember back when people complained about how everyone decks their characters up in sandcloth at every single item slot for perceived code advantages it offers.

I've never been a combat heavy player, but these things seem to be cyclical. What often happens is a particular PC will become long lived and be known as a bad-ass. People will emulate that PCs fighting and armour styles because they'll assume it's part of his bad-assery. And so it becomes the predominant style for a while, until another PC becomes known as a bad-ass with a different style.

That was back before the Defense Nerf and reeling, bro.

Almost immediately after those massive code changes, folks started heading for the breastplates and greathelms.  It had absolutely nothing to do with cycles or influential players, and everything to do with 1) the fact that your chance to dodge and/or parry dropped by a massive factor, due to a "bug fix," and 2) the fact that higher damage = reeling, and armor = less damage ==> less reeling ==> you can still flee.

Feel free to go out there in sandcloth, though.  Pretty soon you'll have the most pro bandaging skill on the block...unless you get reel-locked and die.

[John]

That was back before the Defense Nerf and reeling, bro.

Aaah okay. Did this new code fix the problem where the only way to kill a mekillot was to have a Byn troop surround it and kick it to death? That was a rather famous issue with the old code (too skilled to get killed by a mekillot, but the mek's skin was too hard to kill with weapons)

[Saellyn]

That was back before the Defense Nerf and reeling, bro.

Aaah okay. Did this new code fix the problem where the only way to kill a mekillot was to have a Byn troop surround it and kick it to death? That was a rather famous issue with the old code (too skilled to get killed by a mekillot, but the mek's skin was too hard to kill with weapons)

My very informative answer to thee is...

Maybe.

[CravenMadness]

dunno, but I've almost always considered world temperature when deciding character clothing/armor.  Probably not too ic to say that most of my characters end up in exactly what folks consider 'in character clothing' ... light main body pieces such as sandcloth, with heavier pieces guarding 'soft spots', comfortable boots, and a big cloak.

I've done the whole, armor up like a stone stump, thing... Doesn't seem to really help much.  This game's always seemed that stats and skills make more of a difference for characters, than armor/weapons in combat situations.

People who pile on the heavy armor, pay for it in a lot of little ways if they don't have the brute strength for it.  I've experienced the drawbacks, I have seen people too heavily encumbered because of their super protective armor shell... end up exhausted and unable to flee/chase or do those fun little special combat tricks.  I've seen people in segmented leather bits and a chest harness fight cylops and duskhorn and other normal size stuff and do fine.  -I- typically engage gith or other aggressive types in my reinforced sandcloth..

Game's about taking risks.  Everything's a risk.  Some preparations help more than others, but everyone's going to prepare as best they think.

[Bacon]

I remember back when people complained about how everyone decks their characters up in sandcloth at every single item slot for perceived code advantages it offers.

I've never been a combat heavy player, but these things seem to be cyclical. What often happens is a particular PC will become long lived and be known as a bad-ass. People will emulate that PCs fighting and armour styles because they'll assume it's part of his bad-assery. And so it becomes the predominant style for a while, until another PC becomes known as a bad-ass with a different style.

That was back before the Defense Nerf and reeling, bro.

Almost immediately after those massive code changes, folks started heading for the breastplates and greathelms.  It had absolutely nothing to do with cycles or influential players, and everything to do with 1) the fact that your chance to dodge and/or parry dropped by a massive factor, due to a "bug fix," and 2) the fact that higher damage = reeling, and armor = less damage ==> less reeling ==> you can still flee.

Feel free to go out there in sandcloth, though.  Pretty soon you'll have the most pro bandaging skill on the block...unless you get reel-locked and die.

Yeah, wearing lighter armors is much more likely to bring about your character's death now than prior to the "defense fix" (nerf) and the addition of reel. I still use them when appropriate but before, wearing lighter armor just meant that you got hit harder and had to flee sooner.  Now, it's when the first time a moderately hard hit lands you run your ass off if you didn't get reeled right off. If you got reeled...you might not be able to escape to survive the encounter. I think they should take back the "defense fix" (nerf) or get rid of reel.

[Delirium]

I think it's fine. The only time I've lost a character to reel is when I clearly bit off way more than I could chew.

Play sensibly and don't take needless risks, and hey presto, your character gets good enough to take on the dangerous stuff... preferably with a buddy along.