Kruth cards, and illiteracy

[Fredd]

so... We can't read or write, but we know certain numbers when we see them. Why can't we like, wright a number on a piece of paper?

Random musing

[bcw81]

>Look card

[HavokBlue]

Kruth cards do not look like standard real-world playing cards, so I'm not sure where you're coming from with this.

[NOFUN]

I've always wondered if it's possible to describe a drawing on a IG piece of paper. Something like..
>read paper (with no literacy skill)
>you see a crudely drawn picture of half-elves being hung from trees.
I've never actually tried though.

Also from what I understand a commoner would be able to count to ten using there fingers. If you're going for hyper-realism mode when somebody asks you your age you could say a ten and a six. (If you were sixteen, yo.)

[Samoa]

Also from what I understand a commoner would be able to count to ten using there fingers. If you're going for hyper-realism mode when somebody asks you your age you could say a ten and a six. (If you were sixteen, yo.)

This is a relatively common misconception; Zalanthan commoners aren't *retarded*, they just can't read and write. That doesn't mean that they're incapable of dealing with advanced concepts or numbers, and in fact they're probably very mathematically capable when it comes to simple number operations, seeing as every single obsidian coin counts when you're living hand to mouth by digging up rocks in the desert.

[Barzalene]

Also from what I understand a commoner would be able to count to ten using there fingers. If you're going for hyper-realism mode when somebody asks you your age you could say a ten and a six. (If you were sixteen, yo.)

This is a relatively common misconception; Zalanthan commoners aren't *retarded*, they just can't read and write. That doesn't mean that they're incapable of dealing with advanced concepts or numbers, and in fact they're probably very mathematically capable when it comes to simple number operations, seeing as every single obsidian coin counts when you're living hand to mouth by digging up rocks in the desert.

This.

[Synthesis]

Why can't we like, wright a number on a piece of paper?

Random musing

Because if we were wrighting, we'd be working with timbers.

[Kismetic]

This does beg a more interesting question:  What do Zalanthan hand signals for numbers resemble?  Most cultures on Earth have variations.  There's a fun little scene in Inglorious Basterds where the English spy mistakes the German signal for three, and gives himself away.

Rambling aside ...  Does Allanak and Tuluk have different number signals?  Do those differ from those of the tribals?  Does it vary by language?

Something to think about, I suppose.

[Marauder Moe]

Firstly, Kruth cards aren't numbered, so that's not an issue.

As for marking down number, I think the most advanced system that would be legal/common among illiterate commoners would be something like tally marks, maybe also with shortcuts for 100 and 1000.  Also, I believe there are several references in-game to numbers also being marked by notches on sticks.

I think anything as sophisticated as Roman or Arabic numerals would be illegal.

[Archbaron]

As has been said before in this thread already, Kruth cards do no use numbers, they use images.

I've always wondered if it's possible to describe a drawing on a IG piece of paper. Something like..
>read paper (with no literacy skill)
>you see a crudely drawn picture of half-elves being hung from trees.
I've never actually tried though.

Also from what I understand a commoner would be able to count to ten using there fingers. If you're going for hyper-realism mode when somebody asks you your age you could say a ten and a six. (If you were sixteen, yo.)

There exists some things that are drawings, but most of the time it is stuff written be players described in words. It's a flaw in the coded writing/reading system that you can't put drawings on a scroll like with the scribble command (which everyone should use because it's amazing).

This does beg a more interesting question:  What do Zalanthan hand signals for numbers resemble?  Most cultures on Earth have variations.  There's a fun little scene in Inglorious Basterds where the English spy mistakes the German signal for three, and gives himself away.

Rambling aside ...  Does Allanak and Tuluk have different number signals?  Do those differ from those of the tribals?  Does it vary by language?

Something to think about, I suppose.

I imagine that the hand symbols are similar to what we use. After all, the Known uses a ten-number numeral system, since everyone has 10 fingers. Here is a Wikipedia article that people might find interesting.

I think anything as sophisticated as Roman or Arabic numerals would be illegal.

I agree. I imagine Cavalish as being a language with an advanced numbering system, as that's a huge use for the language. I see it as being cruder than Sirihish.

In closing, everyone should play with Kruth cards because they are awesome.

[Morrolan]

In "sirihish" we have "tally" words for 12, 100, and 1000 (dozen, small, large).  I would think a tally word for 10 would be common, and probably one for 5 as well.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Me and Kevo used to use 'tiny' for 10, but it never caught on.

[Kalai]

I often have this leaning toward calling 5 of something a 'hand', for whatever reason.

[bcw81]

Me and Kevo used to use 'tiny' for 10, but it never caught on.

I use tiny when I can, but that's generally only for small amounts of ten.

[perfecto]

Also from what I understand a commoner would be able to count to ten using there fingers. If you're going for hyper-realism mode when somebody asks you your age you could say a ten and a six. (If you were sixteen, yo.)

This is a relatively common misconception; Zalanthan commoners aren't *retarded*

this.. THIS!

[My 2 sids]

While Zanthas isn't Earth, I'd think literacy works much the same way in both worlds.

1) Humans, at least, have the brain power to become literate.  Nobles are literate as are scribes.

2) Literacy is a lot more than simply recognizing a written character.  Having a merchant draw a picture of fruit and three sids doesn't really threaten the social order.  Having playing cards with pictures on them to allow drunks to win and loose sid, doesn't threaten the social order.   Literacy defined as the ability to not simply organize one's thoughts, but collect and build upon thoughts, THAT is what would threaten the social order and THAT is what the nobility would notice and wipe out.

[John]

In "sirihish" we have "tally" words for 12, 100, and 1000 (dozen, small, large).  I would think a tally word for 10 would be common, and probably one for 5 as well.

I used a handful and a double handful in the past.

[Is Friday]

The term "handful" is only acceptable for the measurement of breasts.

[Delirium]

sdesc: the large-handed dwarf
focus: find the perfect handful

[Incognito]

There is (probably more than one) an item which merchants use, to count coins with ease. It basically has markings on it, which let the user know when a stack of coins has a certain number of coins or not. i.e. if a stack has exactly 10 or 100, or not, etc.

OOCLY this would mean (to me) that Zalanthan coins are minted with a decent degree of precision as far as their thickness/diameter goes.

Even though most Zalanthans are illiterate, there's no reason why each individual wouldn't come up with their own short-cuts to count to different numbers. i.e. the first part of my thumb measures exactly 4 obsidian coins, or, the hilt of my sword measures exactly 20 coins etc.

(I know this may lead to derail threads about body parts being whipped out of their respective garments, to measure 'sids)

PS: I am not sure what "the perfect-handful" would stack up to, but I AM sure it'd be a decent bounty.

[Bast]

so... We can't read or write, but we know certain numbers when we see them. Why can't we like, wright a number on a piece of paper?

Random musing

Because big brother will put a sword in through your face? 

[Patuk]

Only been playing this game for a few days. So -please- don't hit me.

But. After reading the help file for these kruth cards, I can't help but be reminded of earth's tarot cards. From what I gather, each suit of kruth cards has a king inside them - tarot has kings, too, so.. Suppose this would not be a tarot card, but the king of water:




Why should you have to be literate to recognise that ^ picture is the king of water?

[ShaLeah]

Only been playing this game for a few days. So -please- don't hit me.

But. After reading the help file for these kruth cards, I can't help but be reminded of earth's tarot cards. From what I gather, each suit of kruth cards has a king inside them - tarot has kings, too, so.. Suppose this would not be a tarot card, but the king of water:




Why should you have to be literate to recognise that ^ picture is the king of water?

The boy's got a point.

[bcw81]

You can recognize that as the king of water, but if you're asking why you can't see the runes (letters/etc) think of what would happen when a smart commoner realized that the first grouping meant 'water' and the second meant 'of' and the third meant 'kings'.

[Patuk]

Of course, but.. There doesn't need to be text on the cards, does there? I would've uploaded a tarot card without text, but I couldn't find a suitable king of cups for that, so.. Imagine the same card without the 'king of cups' subscript. There's a man, a crowned man, with the sea at his feet. Zalanthas doesn't have this symbolism, but.. I imagine that it has similar ways of dealing with things. The entire reason tarot has pictures is because humans are visual people - we can trigger our own minds by looking at these pictures. And seeing as nobody in Zalanthas gets to read, I imagine that its common folk would be far more sensitive to visual symbolism than we would.

[bcw81]

I'm not exactly sure what your point is? Many people use Kruth as a fortune telling device in Arm, the object is there to use however your character would use it; be that magik, fortunes, card games, toiletries, or even throwing weapons. (The last one is a joke)

IRL Kruth deck:
http://www.digbyconsulting.com/kruthcards/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

(Minus the text, of course)

[musashi]

I always assumed the cards had no written text and the pictures alone were enough to be recognized.

[RogueGunslinger]

You i've been thinking about it. And after some time I think I've come to the conclusion that the cards very well may not have anything written on them, and might just be pictures that people memorize. Noting illegal about recognizing a picture, after all.

[Wasteland Raider]

You could always solve this mystery by, you know, looking at the cards ingame.

[Case]

You could always solve this mystery by, you know, looking at the cards ingame.

IC info