Depressing Death?

[Hot_Dancer]

Hah Synth - I have an indie clan written up for my next run that heavily emphasizes such a meatbag treatment idea.

...

If only I had the time, and my current PC would just die.

[Harmless]

Alternatively, people in positions of power could actually treat their underlings like the unimportant, expendable meatbags they're supposed to be, instead of obsessing over them and coddling them like precious little snowflakes.

Indeed. When a meatbag dies, that's a bad meatbag. After all, it died on you. What use is a meatbag when it's dead? Stupid meatbag, I'm going to have to find a way to hire better meatbags.

Oh, we know who killed the meatbag? Send them word that I'm hiring a replacement.

[musashi]

Yeah, you're basically asking players to ... not act like players. 

[Kismetic]

I accept responsibility in helping derail this thread, but maybe we can make another one for this topic, or something.

D'oh

[Akaramu]

Alternatively, people in positions of power could actually treat their underlings like the unimportant, expendable meatbags they're supposed to be, instead of obsessing over them and coddling them like precious little snowflakes.

That isn't going to happen, simply because steadily active, loyal and reasonably long lived underlings are rare, but are required to get most anything done. A flood of short lived meatbags won't typically get the clan anywhere.

I wouldn't want to play in a clan where my longevity, loyalty and constant contribution to moving clan plots along isn't appreciated.

[musashi]

PC's are, much more often than not, beautiful unique snowflakes. That's what most people like to play. That's why deaths are depressing in the first place.

[Dakota]

PC's are, much more often than not, beautiful unique snowflakes. That's what most people like to play. That's why deaths are depressing in the first place.

the wiry, shaved-headed man says: "You are not your how good you are with your broadsword. You're not how much black you have in Nenyuk. You're not the mount you ride. You're not the contents of your backpack. You're not your krathdamn silk dress that you sew with your dainty little fingers between handjobs. You're the all-singing, all-dancing kankshit of the known."

[spicemustflow]

I wouldn't want to play in a clan where my longevity, loyalty and constant contribution to moving clan plots along isn't appreciated.

They should be appreciated, but not to extent where your boss mobilizes all the resources of his organization to start a war on someone who took your pack.

[Harmless]

Whatever happened to OOCly appreciating your underlings while ICly giving them a single nod at best in recognition for their work, then a wave of the hand to shoo them away? I mean, that makes me feel good as an underling, and I've only ever been underlings.

[hatchets]

Depends on who you are working for.

Self Centered (good or evil) Would give two shits about an underling. Hence, being self centered.

But then ya got your manipulative ones, good and evil, whom give ya attention, so that way you'll do dumb shit for them. A good ego rubbing and a few thank yous, next thing ya know, your trying to kill a bahamet with your bare hands.

[Akaramu]

I wouldn't want to play in a clan where my longevity, loyalty and constant contribution to moving clan plots along isn't appreciated.

They should be appreciated, but not to extent where your boss mobilizes all the resources of his organization to start a war on someone who took your pack.

Never seen this happen. Pretty sure it's rare enough not to be an issue.

[A Large Bag]

I wouldn't want to play in a clan where my longevity, loyalty and constant contribution to moving clan plots along isn't appreciated.

They should be appreciated, but not to extent where your boss mobilizes all the resources of his organization to start a war on someone who took your pack.

Never seen this happen. Pretty sure it's rare enough not to be an issue.

It doesn't happen often but I have seen it happen a few times. House Peon gets fucked with by somebody, the leader character brings all their house backing to bear on fucking them up. It's awfully unrealistic and silly when it happens.

[Patuk]

I wouldn't want to play in a clan where my longevity, loyalty and constant contribution to moving clan plots along isn't appreciated.

They should be appreciated, but not to extent where your boss mobilizes all the resources of his organization to start a war on someone who took your pack.

Never seen this happen. Pretty sure it's rare enough not to be an issue.

It doesn't happen often but I have seen it happen a few times. House Peon gets fucked with by somebody, the leader character brings all their house backing to bear on fucking them up. It's awfully unrealistic and silly when it happens.

This happened to me and I've only played for about two months. It -is- silly.

[Rhyden]

I know! I stole someone's backpack one time and got shanked later on by House Backpackalarrius wtf yo?! So silly!!

[Armaddict]

...when did this turn into 'I bit into an animal way bigger than me and it bit me back and it should have ignored me' thread?

[A Large Bag]

I know! I stole someone's backpack one time and got shanked later on by House Backpackalarrius wtf yo?! So silly!!

I don't think a helper being sarcastic is being very helpful, btw.

Yeah, that's not what anyone is talking about here. Stealing, is penalized by death with some organizations. I'm talking about:

Peon: This guy was mean to me and talked shit!

Leader: Really?
*Orders his people to kill them if they catch them. Pays for a hit on the guy to have them killed etc.*

Most clans would not realistically condone the use of resources to kill a guy who talked shit to one of their recruits.

[Rhyden]

We need a dedicated raiding clan that isn't iso

I'd give that clan a week, at best...

Basically. You would be asking the entire player base to basically not take action against the group under the pretense that they were one of many virtual raiding groups picking off random unimportant nobodies.

Expect they wouldn't be picking off random nobodies. They would be picking off PC's who are all connected to someone somehow.

And when you do that, you get dog piled.

Alternatively, people in positions of power could actually treat their underlings like the unimportant, expendable meatbags they're supposed to be, instead of obsessing over them and coddling them like precious little snowflakes.

Alternatively, people who perceive this as an issue could actually -become- leaders of House Snowflake and show all the "coddling" leaders how expendable snowflakes really are.

[Rhyden]

I know! I stole someone's backpack one time and got shanked later on by House Backpackalarrius wtf yo?! So silly!!

I don't think a helper being sarcastic is being very helpful, btw.

Yeah, that's not what anyone is talking about here. Stealing, is penalized by death with some organizations. I'm talking about:

Peon: This guy was mean to me and talked shit!

Leader: Really?
*Orders his people to kill them if they catch them. Pays for a hit on the guy to have them killed etc.*

I know, but I'm an extremely sarcastic and facetious person. Sorry!

My point is yes, if you take one step out of line, House A can and may come down on you and squish you like the bug you are.

In this thread so far, I've seen people complaining that clans come down waaaaaaaaaay too hard on folks for issues like this, and I've seen people complaining that clans coddle their minions and everyone else with flowers and daisies.

It's the standard GDB Goldilocks syndrome. You know, my porridge is too hot! Waaaaah! My porridge is too cold! Waaaah! You can't please everyone. You surely can complain on the GDB about issues like this but it won't do anyone a lick of good.

My point is, go in game and fix the problem in game, instead of wasting your time and energy complaining about it on the GDB!

[Armaddict]

Bah, now I've had to think about it and help derail, but I just wanted to insure this is understood.

Minions are, indeed, just that...minions.  Yes, overlord A can afford to lose minion A's backpack.

However, you also have to realize that this is one of his izdari pieces.  Messing with that thing messes with his plan, potentially.  Messing with minion A shows a willingness to mess with House A, as well.  Messing with minion A can affect the image  of House A.  There are a multitude of facets further than 'I just stole a pack', all of which are more important to overlord A than the well-being of the minion itself.  Among them?  If minion A starts telling overlord A that this person is causing trouble for those he uses to carry out his plans, then the potential to have his plans fucked up grow in the presence of said non-minion.  Said overlord will -probably- be irritated with said non-minion as a result...and -when is it ever a good idea to cause irritation to an overlord-?

One of the first things in this game I was told as a noob was 'Don't mess with people who are employed with nobles or templars unless you can deal with a shit storm.'  That's how it is.  That's how it's always been.  And yes, that's how it should be.

[bcw81]

^+1

Just because it looks like they're fucking you over because the noble is fucking the underling doesn't mean that that's the real reason.

[Morrolan]

As I mentioned in another thread, the relative power of noble houses very much revolves around status, or "face." Making a noble or merchant house look bad is not separate from preventing their success. Quite the opposite, making a house look bad has everything to do with their success.

Whether a specific leader chooses to solve the problem by taking care of the outsider, or by removing the employee who is part of the problem, is another question. If an employee makes the house look incompetent, he or she might be removed...possibly permanently, depending on the temperaments of the people involved.

Keep this in mind the next time you have a pack stolen.  Sloppy employees might not get fired, especially if it is considered that they might know a few things they should not: things like the layout of defenses of a house, or the identity of an informant, could easily be worth a no-cost killing.

"What happened to Amos?"

"Hunting accident."

Better to not lose a pack...and sometimes better to keep your mouth shut so you look more competent.

And it is usually better to use your own resources to take care of the problem before you report it to your employer.  "Marky Sharp stole my pack. It has been handled."

Marky Sharp got out of jail.
Marky Sharp fell down a well.
Poor, poor Marky Sharp.

[A Large Bag]

^ +1 This is more along the lines of my way of thinking about it. By running to your employer about it, you should consider that the employer might consider it a failing on your part and punish you over it rather than they will go get that big meanie for me.

[Harmless]

Alternatively, people who perceive this as an issue could actually -become- leaders of House Snowflake and show all the "coddling" leaders how expendable snowflakes really are.

I agree that we should be the change we want to see, and I'm working at it. I played for 8 hours yesterday, more than I've played in one sitting in probably a year. This stuff takes time if you aren't going the special-app route.

But I would add that this change doesn't have to happen as a leader. I think what people are complaining about can be improved upon from all sides, antagonist, underling, and leader too of course.

Just my two cents here, and I'm done "bitching on the GDB" for today.

[Yam]

Should be new thread as it's currently a massive derail.

It's also that current game commentary that is best handled tactfully in its own topic, dealt with ICly, or with the request tool. Fuck.

[Barsook]

Should be new thread as it's currently a massive derail.

+1