Spirituality (Particularly Allanaki)

[chrisdcoulombe]

Polymorph into dragon.

[Jdr]

There's plenty of religion in Zalanthas. It's just very obscure as far as what the general city-state citizen would comprehend, and would likely observe it as a bunch of hogwash.

[hyzhenhok]

Play a religious devotee of Muk Utep or Tektolnes and see what kind of reaction you get, especially in Luir's or Red Storm.

[Potaje]

ON THE MIGHTY DRAGON TEKTOLNES:

1395
Exactly one year after the beginning of the siege of Allanak, Tektolnes reappears in the guise of a dragon and breathes death upon the sieging army - the army ceases to exist. Over the course of the next few years, a temple is built near the entrance of the city, in which the newly formed white-robe templarate preach the worship of He Who Rescued Us, the Mighty Dragon Tektolnes.


           ON THE BANISGMENT OF MAGICK IN TULUK:

1441
A fire of questionable origin starts in the scrub plains south of Tuluk and almost destroys the city. Isar, High Templar of Tuluk, uses powerful magick to stop the fire, however. The fire leaves a wide path of scorched earth leading south away from the city.
1445
After a miserably failed coup, Precentor Kul is banished from Tuluk by Precentor Isar.
1450
A terrifying and presumably magickal cataclysm strikes the city-state of Tuluk, leaving it to be nothing more than a pile of rubble and ruins. Over seventy thousand people are killed that day in what has since come to be known as the Fall of Tuluk. During the chaos, Precentor Kul manages to overthrow Precentor Isar and gains control over what little remains.

*This is the start of the ban and fear of magick in Tuluk.


ON MAGICK AND SPIRITUALITY:

A thought to keep in mind when working with elementalists is that they're not priests. Or philosophers. Or druids. Or seers. Or Wizards. They do not get their powers by prayer, worship, communing with a greater power, or studying ancient texts. Many of them make no effort whatsoever to nurture their power and never sought it out to begin with. They were born this way and that's that. Some elementalists doubtless view their powers as a curse, but have taken up the life of an elementalist because there's no escaping what they are.

This should be viewed as academies or centers of magickal learning - not religious institutions.


In answer to "Are you telling me that nowhere out there in those deserts is some chump going, "wtf?  That Ruk can move boulders!  Why can't I!?!?"


Elementalists are born with their power, although the age at which it manifests varies from person to person. Elementalism cannot be learned. If a person has elemental powers they can be enhanced by studying another of like endowment, but a person with no powers cannot learn a thing. It is frustration with this limitation and jealousy of others that causes some to seek out the powers of sorcery.

[Jingo]

I would love to see the occasional underground cult pop up here and there in the city-states. As well as the occasional 'servants of tek/utep' secret societies.

[hyzhenhok]

I think we're talking about elementalists worshiping their element because they are crazy or deluded or obsessed, not drawing power from a worshiped element D&D cleric style, which is what the docs are against.

[Sokotra]

In answer to "Are you telling me that nowhere out there in those deserts is some chump going, "wtf?  That Ruk can move boulders!  Why can't I!?!?"

And this is also seen as a curse... why would I want to move boulders when I will be cursed in some awful way for the rest of my life?  Coming in contact with a magicker or being a magicker could cause like pretty much any bad thing that could possibly happen.

The general populace does not know what a magicker is and isn't capable of, and assumes the worst. Magickers are blamed for disease, bad luck, and any other negative occurence.

As far as I know, this hasn't changed... although some tribes have always had a different view of magick, as someone mentioned.

[Potaje]

I think we're talking about elementalists worshiping their element because they are crazy or deluded or obsessed, not drawing power from a worshiped element D&D cleric style, which is what the docs are against.

Alright, My thought on this specific is that even though there are temples, as is said they are academia, would not see many Radicals with in the community last long enough to develop a cult. This would be put down rather quickly by the Templaret since it would promote an open divergence from the established order of things. Cults tend towards that.

Also, though there are crazy, deluded and obsessive people in all walks of life, that would be deemed rare and in many cases would or might be looked down on, despised and or culled or ostrosized by other gemmed that on the whole are trying to come to terms with something foreign to them and a disruption to their previously normal way of life.

Now I do believe that in certain tribal settings that this, worship in a spiritual manner, would be more prevalent and even hold a certain place of revere in those societies. Controlled or looked upon by the elders with a different stigma.

This is not to say some crazy gemmer wouldn't run off to the rinth to try and start a cult, or that one couldn't or shouldn't develop a personal divinity or worship to an element. But in most cases it would take years of trying to simply understand WTF is going on with them and how can they control it if it can even be controlled. So keeping that in mind, it would really be hard pressed to one day wake up, puke out water from your mouth, ear hole and then suddenly go from commoner pot maker to holy devote Viv the acolyte.

[Cleis]

This is not to say some crazy gemmer wouldn't run off to the rinth to try and start a cult, or that one couldn't or shouldn't develop a personal divinity or worship to an element. But in most cases it would take years of trying to simply understand WTF is going on with them and how can they control it if it can even be controlled. So keeping that in mind, it would really be hard pressed to one day wake up, puke out water from your mouth, ear hole and then suddenly go from commoner pot maker to holy devote Viv the acolyte.

When I brought the idea up, I was thinking along the lines of a newly-manifested elemental who, in the face of the sheer magnitude of what's happening to her, has a mini (or not mini) breakdown, makes some crap up as a coping mechanism or whatever other way of reaching the conclusion that this must be some divine stuff going down. I was wondering if there was a reason why she wouldn't fall back on the (IRL) tried-n-tested way of explaining the apparently inexplicable: religion.

I agree with you that this would have to happen in the absence of an established magicker institution/sub-culture, so it's highly unlikely that a 'Nakki gemmer would do this. Everyone around him is saying "yeah, it's this and you're an abomination but a useful one so you can hang", he has an explanation for his situation.

I think it could be possible, though, and correct me if I'm wrong on the cultural evaluation, that a Tuluki (for example) who manifests might (after a period of "why me"ing and "oh no I'm gross"ing) start to rationalise their "affliction" with their instinctive self-preservation by seeing themselves as the Chosen One of some ancient elemental god. I think this would be an interesting role to play out, if a likely short-lived one, if this cult-of-one decides to go evangelical.

[Sokotra]

When I brought the idea up, I was thinking along the lines of a newly-manifested elemental who, in the face of the sheer magnitude of what's happening to her, has a mini (or not mini) breakdown, makes some crap up as a coping mechanism or whatever other way of reaching the conclusion that this must be some divine stuff going down.

I'm guessing this has been done before and might not be a problem.  Be prepared for the consequences in-game if you let people know... or you might get lucky and only tell a few people that buy into it all - maybe being elementalists themselves, creating a small and secretive cult.  This sounds cool to me, and like I said, pretty sure it has been done before with interesting results.

[Cindy42]

there is a dead desert elf tribe because they had gods so tektolnes ate them. its in docs somewhere.

[Sokotra]

there is a dead desert elf tribe because they had gods so tektolnes ate them. its in docs somewhere.

Which sounds like it was a lot of fun and a big plot that could eventually be created.  I know there are people out there just dying to get eaten by Tek.  Unless you just get quietly assassinated in a dark alley somewhere or put to death on the streets of Nak.  That could be fun as well, given the right circumstances.

[Erisine]

This is not to say some crazy gemmer wouldn't run off to the rinth to try and start a cult, or that one couldn't or shouldn't develop a personal divinity or worship to an element. But in most cases it would take years of trying to simply understand WTF is going on with them and how can they control it if it can even be controlled. So keeping that in mind, it would really be hard pressed to one day wake up, puke out water from your mouth, ear hole and then suddenly go from commoner pot maker to holy devote Viv the acolyte.

When I brought the idea up, I was thinking along the lines of a newly-manifested elemental who, in the face of the sheer magnitude of what's happening to her, has a mini (or not mini) breakdown, makes some crap up as a coping mechanism or whatever other way of reaching the conclusion that this must be some divine stuff going down. I was wondering if there was a reason why she wouldn't fall back on the (IRL) tried-n-tested way of explaining the apparently inexplicable: religion.

I agree with you that this would have to happen in the absence of an established magicker institution/sub-culture, so it's highly unlikely that a 'Nakki gemmer would do this. Everyone around him is saying "yeah, it's this and you're an abomination but a useful one so you can hang", he has an explanation for his situation.

I think it could be possible, though, and correct me if I'm wrong on the cultural evaluation, that a Tuluki (for example) who manifests might (after a period of "why me"ing and "oh no I'm gross"ing) start to rationalise their "affliction" with their instinctive self-preservation by seeing themselves as the Chosen One of some ancient elemental god. I think this would be an interesting role to play out, if a likely short-lived one, if this cult-of-one decides to go evangelical.

This post pretty much hits the nail on the head of what I was trying to get to.  There are few things that could definitely lead to a religious archetypal character; rationalizing something like being a magicker is one of them.  We should also not forget general sociopathy -- one narcissistic magicker, after a while and perhaps too much luck, might grow to believe that they were gifted or "chosen" rather than cursed.  I do think that even if you sprouted some hideous third eye IRL, you might think yourself gross -- unless you discovered that third eye could render you invisible, teleport you, or set your enemies on fire with a mere thought... at which point, you might find yourself on a drug-like powertrip.  There is also the desire to be a part of a group and feel a sense of belonging.  In Allanak, this HAS been established through the gemmed magickers, but elsewhere (outside of accepting tribes) there is no such support network.  As much as we might like to think of some sneaky magicker who spends their days camping out alone in the desert waiting to get you, it's really not a natural state. 

And what happens when you DO get a small group together that is heavily ostracized?  They suffer from a positive feedback loop amongst themselves -- now instead of "well, lets just stick together to survive", they begin to think a LOT more about "Us vs. Them".  Maybe they begin to rationalize as a group, and see "signs" in everything.  Maybe they realize that they're just misunderstood and they've been chosen to return some forgotten god back to power.  Or something.  Now you have a cult, and a potentially nasty one, at that.

there is a dead desert elf tribe because they had gods so tektolnes ate them. its in docs somewhere.

Which sounds like it was a lot of fun and a big plot that could eventually be created.  I know there are people out there just dying to get eaten by Tek.  Unless you just get quietly assassinated in a dark alley somewhere or put to death on the streets of Nak.  That could be fun as well, given the right circumstances.

Yes, please.    There's something thrilling about being the fox in a fox hunt, so long as you get the opportunity to grow large enough that there's an actual chase to be had.

[Erythil]

Michael Fassbender is going to roll up the first steel-elemental and start a revenge quest against templars.

[Jeshin]

Having just recently begun my first family role on this mud. Might I offer the thought of a family role with a backstory that either imparts religion to the family members or gives them a strong leaning towards it? Ponder it!

[Synthesis]

Michael Fassbender

assbender? omfg now there are feces elementalists and psionicists?

[Erythil]

Go see X-Men First Class.   

[Rairen]

When I brought the idea up, I was thinking along the lines of a newly-manifested elemental who, in the face of the sheer magnitude of what's happening to her, has a mini (or not mini) breakdown, makes some crap up as a coping mechanism or whatever other way of reaching the conclusion that this must be some divine stuff going down.

I went with this plotline once.  Highly entertaining - though I didn't really ask permission to do it.  It evolved naturally as I started to play the character.  There generally seems to be an openness to new, unsupported perspectives IC if you can be tasteful and non-overbearing about it (even when your position is unassailable).

[Zoltan]

My magickers have all been different in what reverence they show their element. My common trend seems to be the more powerful they get, the more elementally-minded they get. But I've had my share of 'gickers that viewed magick as a misfortune that just needed to be taken advantage of at arms' length.

My closest "religious" magicker was a Whiran who had this obsessive, Oedipal love thing with his element. And would, like... take it to physical levels sometimes. 

But never any blatant worship-like stuff. Though I appreciate that there's the room for it IG. Really, I don't think there are any "concrete" magick lore things you're going to learn without staff involvement, which means there are a ton of different ways to approach it all. Part of the appeal of playing a 'gicker is deciding how they approach their gift or curse.

As to sorcerers, I imagine that they only worship themselves.

As to commoners, it's probably in their physical best interests to not think too hard about such things, and pay due respect to their god-kings.

[Semper]

People worship what gives them power, the feeling of power, or because it is more powerful.

So objects of worship? Could be the Godkings, Dragons, Elementals, the established crimelord, etc.

[Feco]

Plenty of concrete IC magick info ingame you dont need staff for.

[Archbaron]

So keeping that in mind, it would really be hard pressed to one day wake up, puke out water from your mouth, ear hole and then suddenly go from commoner pot maker to holy devote Viv the acolyte.

The Vivaduan Temple [EW]
   This is where all the newbs hang out. There's some water here, big whoop. You're not that thirsty anyways because you're a Vivaduan. Unless you're not a Vivaduan. In which case, why are you lingering long enough to even read this. Guards?
<100/100 - 125/125 - 80/80 - 100/100 - walking>
l w
To the west is the Inside of the Temple.
[Near]

[janeshephard]

There's religion in Zalanthas but its mostly not organized. The people in the city states see their king as a god -- out of fear usually.

Outside of the city states its find out IC.

You can play a magicker who worships their element. I did more than a year ago. In fact, any personification of the elements can lead to some fun RP for reasons I won't share here.

The staff have stated previously, that your character can choose to believe whatever your character would believe but don't expect others to hold the same view. So you can worship a gink rat called Stu if you wanted to. I think the only time its a problem is if you join a clan where worshipping a ginka rat called Stu is very outside the norm. For exampling, apping a Templar who keeps a rat he worships seem a bit out of place.

[Voular]

I didn't have time to read it all, but this is my take on the questions:
1.)  Does Tektolnes out-rank the elemental spiritual gods?  Is he viewed as having more actual power than they do?
According to him (the templarate) he does. Also, I will comment on your use of the word gods - it's very unfitting. Tek isn't really toted as a "god". He's simply the ultimate power there ever was. Concept of godhood is a bit alien to Zalanthalas, I believe. I know people would sometimes mention "the gods" IG sometimes, but that's simply a lazy way to speak about the "powers that be".

2.)  Are Krath/Vivadu/etc. viewed as outcast gods?  Is there some accepted explanation for magickers concerning them, and why it's "okay" to demonize them or, for Allanak, enslave them?
The elemental powers are not viewed generally as gods. Even elementalists themselves take a long time to understand the nature of the elementals. Also when mentioning "Whira's luck" or "Whira's a bitch", many would perhaps imagine a lady whira - I suspect just as many would see it as an expression of a non-sentinent power as well. The elements are praised differently, though still - calling Whira a godess would be stretching it in the situation of this world and setting. If you catch my drift.

3.)  What in the world do Tulukis think of all this?  Do they have their own god-king, or do they think Allanakis are just $%*#@ idiots?
Tulukis worship their own sort of god-king.. He's a bit of a poopy-head. (They call him the Sun-King, he has a pyramid and his own Templarate to tote his awesomeness). In essence, it's the same sort of deal up north - but there are vast differences, though the system is the same. Very powerful entity revered as king/ruler/ultimate power and it has an ironfisted templarate to reinforce that view.

4.)  Is there any group (including desert elves) that are viewed as fanatical?
No one would question anyones fervor to their sorc-king. Also, the desert elves and tribals have their own unique "religions" (I use that term loosely here). And some of these can be seen as very hostile to outsiders, or unforgiving to invaders. Thus that could be considered fanatical, but it is more a question of it being aggresive and protective cultures.


Anyway, just my take on it all. The usage of the word god always bothered. And to comment further on the title "The Dragon". There are several things in this world that can be titulated the Dragon. The Highlord Tek is one of them, but there are other things - and those can be found out IG or if researched through forums-histories and the timeline and whatnots..

[Wasteland Raider]

I highly encourage PCs to ask other PCs about Tektolnes or Muk Utep IC, in either Allanak or Tuluk, especially their respective Templarates or militias. Obviously I would stray from making claims/questions that could be seen as 'heathenry,' but I have seen a number of excellent scenes revolving around teaching "outsiders" or the unlearned on these subjects.