Roleplaying your character's eating habits

[Morgenes]

This is an offshoot from a common code request we get, which is to add an 'eat all <object>' command that lets you consume an entire food item in one message instead of spamming the room as you eat each bite.  I'm not really here to talk about the code idea, but more the reasoning behind why people are spam consuming food, or feel they need to, and why they aren't role playing meals, and making meal eating part of their social interactions.  I imagine as you get into the nobles and merchants (the more social types) integrating food and social behaviors is probably more the norm.   But in my opinion it should be part of everyone's role play.

I wonder why having to take multiple bites of a piece of food is viewed as such an inconvenience, and why you (those that are complaining about the spam) aren't treating the character's need to eat regularly with the same fanaticism that you practice skills or spells. Why are you spamming a bunch of eat commands together?  Why don't you take the time to make eating meals part of your roleplay of your character?  Why don't you share a meal with someone when you are sitting at the tavern, or taking a break while riding across the desert?  Eating is a major part of a person's social and physiological being, why is this not being carried into your role play?

So to bring it to the Role Playing forum, and not the Code forum, my questions to you guys are:

Do you have your characters eat a regular meal (or even better, meals) every day, or do you wait for the 'You are hungry' messages to kick in before eating? 

When you do eat, do you intersperse it with other actions, such as talking, or working on something as people do in real life?

If you are spam eating, do you have an in character reason for doing so?

[MeTekillot]

I wait for the 'you are hungry' messages before eating, unless my character goes to an event where the point is to eat/free food is provided.

I spam-eat if my character is very very hungry, but usually intersperse the spam-eating with command emotes of (savagely tearing into) (wolfing it down desperately) (like a starving street-urchin) etc. etc.

[Morgenes]

I wait for the 'you are hungry' messages before eating, unless my character goes to an event where the point is to eat/free food is provided.

I spam-eat if my character is very very hungry, but usually intersperse the spam-eating with command emotes of (savagely tearing into) (wolfing it down desperately) (like a starving street-urchin) etc. etc.

If you are spam eating, do you have an in character reason for doing so?

[MeTekillot]

Wait, like, spam-eating eat;eat;eat;eat? I don't really do that.

[Qzzrbl]

My reasons for spam eating are as follows:

I do it -alot-. If the need to eat were spaced out a bit more, I wouldn't have a problem RPing it out the best I can.

At times, I don't really have enough time to RP it out. If I'm in the mess hall in the Byn with a very hungry character, I'll quickly wind up getting bitched out for being late for training/chores if I try to think up a different emote for every "eat" instance.

I can only come up with so many emotes that involve eating, and if I focused on it and tried to emote it out every time, I'd wind up repeating certain emotes over and over and over, over the span of several characters. My imagination well has run pretty dry here lately. :<

I'm just lazy sometimes. If I couldn't be budged to emote using 'kick', I'm certainly not gonna be budged to write an emote for every time I eat something.

[Gunnerblaster]

I tend to wait until my character is hungry/a little hungry before actually eating. For me, from an OOC to IC perspective, I try to make food feel that much harder to come by so that I can really feel the grittiness in ARM. I handle eating IC as I do IRL - I typically eat when I'm hungry - and when I'm hungry usually tends to be around the set schedules my body has grown accustomed to. Sure, I have a rough schedule. IRL, I eat at dawn, high sun, and towards dusk/late at night.

Yes, I have - on occasion - spam-eaten food before. Yes, I have also used eating food for valuable roleplay.

Personally, I've never viewed the necessity to eat, in-game, as very tedious. Sure, there -are- some meals that take an obnoxious amount of time to finish off but those are very few in number.

On the occasions when I've spam-eaten food, it's typically after some intensive roleplaying or what-have-you. If I'm enjoying myself enough, I usually don't have the chance to just stop and munch down some food until afterwards - when I get the "you're very hungry" and think to myself, "oh shit - better get something to eat."

If I'm taking it at an easy pace, in-game, I take the time to eat. I'm not going to go out of my way to make some grand solo-scene out of munching on my travel cake but I, as a rule of thumb, try to throw in a few emotes whilst eating.

[Saellyn]

I'm not big on solo RP. Therefore, if I'm alone, I do tend to spam eat/drink. I do solo RP occasionally, but it's something that I find to be extremely tedious and boring. Sometimes.

When I'm with people, depends what they're doing. Usually I am trying to talk or say things or just do stuff that doesn't even use the eat command. And I eat. I also intermittently use the taste command if I don't want to be seen as chowing down like a crazed tok. So, I guess my reason is: Solo RP, boring, spam eat most of the time to get it out of the way.  With people? Very rarely spam-eat, usually chat with them, emote, stuff like that. And eat.

[Morgenes]

Ok, maybe I'm not being clear.

I'm not suggesting people emote between every bite.

I'm asking why not integrate it into your actions, maybe if I set a scene (pardon if this isn't exactly correct in output):

Interior: A dirty, run-down tavern
> say So I saw Amos kanking this elf down by the well the other day.
You say, in sirihish:
  'So I saw Amos kanking this elf down by the well the other day.
You are hungry.

>
The tall, muscular man, says in sirihish:
  'Amos, really?'

> get fruit backpack; eat fruit; eat fruit; eat fruit; eat fruit; eat fruit
You get a ginka fruit from your leather backpack.
You eat a ginka fruit.
You eat a partially eaten ginka fruit.
You eat a half-eaten ginka fruit.
You eat a mostly eaten ginka fruit.
You eat a remainder of a ginka fruit.

> say Ya, he was doin' her good.
You say, in sirihish:
  'Ya, he was doin' her good.'

And now again:

Interior: A dirty, run-down tavern
> say So I saw Amos kanking this elf down by the well the other day.
You say, in sirihish:
  'So I saw Amos kanking this elf down by the well the other day.
You are hungry.

>
The tall, muscular man, says in sirihish:
  'Amos, really?'

> get fruit backpack
You get a ginka fruit from your leather backpack.

> say Ya, he was doin' her good.
You say, in sirihish:
  'Ya, he was doin' her good.'

>
The tall, muscular man nods.

> eat fruit
You eat a ginka fruit.

>
The tall, muscular man says, in sirihish:
  'Go on, was he pulling her hair?'

> say oh ya, he had a braid in each hand and was riding her like a kank.
You say, in sirihish:
  'oh ya, he had a braid in each hand and was riding her like a kank.

> eat fruit
You eat a partially eaten ginka fruit.

...  

Why don't you space out your eating into the conversation, make it part of the flow of what you're doing.  Note I didn't add any emotes about the eating, that could be done (tastefully...pun intended), and spread out the eating into the conversation/role play scene even more.

Even better, why don't you make a habit of eating as the sun rises each day, or sets each night when you are inside anyway.  Share a meal with someone, communicate and eat together, make it a part of your character and their habits.

Is that any clearer on what I'm looking for?

[Spice Spice Baby]

Usually I try to feed my characters regularly enough to not see hunger messages.

When I do let my PC go codedly hungry, it's usually for a reason. Or their player has been too inept to make them enough money to feed them properly. Sorry, characters.

I almost never "spam eat" because I enjoy writing horrible, disgusting stuffing-my-face emotes that often leave me wondering if I should ask players near me for their consent.

It could just be the type of roles I tend to play, but I almost never see people wolfing down tons of food without emotes.

[Thunkkin]

Most people in RL don't eat unless they feel hungry. Granted, most people eat on a semi-regular schedule and so therefore feel hungry at similar times of the day each day. Thus, I think it's natural to wait until you get the "You're hungry" message from the game. We're used to feeling hungry and eating going together (because most of us are privileged). This is compounded by the fact that game time is wacky in relation to real time. It takes IC days to have the equivalent of an extended RL conversation.

That is where it becomes annoying. When you are having an interaction that would take 100 minutes in RL, but instead takes 180 minutes in play time since you have to type and wait for replies, and it thus equates to two days of game time ... it's obnoxious to stop and play out a food scene. Let's be frank. Most people don't pause sex in order to RP out a meal. Nor do they ask to put an important business meeting with their boss on hold while they chow down a day's worth of food. I'm 32 and I've never once said, "Baby, we've got to stop for a snack because I'm physically ill from hunger." Nor, in the course of my job, have I ever had to say, "Excuse me boss and coworkers, but I am about to enter a coma. I am going to eat a full meal now." (Yes, we've all been hungry during meetings ... but not actually STARVING in the true sense of starving).

So, take the oddity described above and combine it with the way that many common foods require four bites but only seem to fill you up 20% of the way or so. Care to take 20 emotes in the middle of your tense conversation? Care to weave 20 eating emotes into your passionate tryst? No. No I don't. I don't normally eat at all during important meetings or conversations in RL. I certainly don't want to spend 12-20 commands on it in the game when I'm trying to focus on other things. SOMETIMES it's great to share a meal. Sometimes it's a bizarre fluke brought on by the mismatch between game time and real time. Seems obvious to me.

Edit: I say this as someone who had a character that built many meals and food scenes into an extended relationship and flirtation with another character. And yes, when I'm on my own, etc., eating as part of my character's routine isn't a bother. But the most important moments in my character's life often don't fit well with chowing down.

[BleakOne]

Only problem I can see with eating a meal at a set time every day, is being too full to eat any more quite quickly, at least in my experience. Time's a bit out of whack too, so people usually don't sleep every night, or usually every other night either.

Having said that, if my PC is in a room with others who are also hanging around, I do try to represent a normal meal but spacing out my eats between talking and emotes. If I'm out on the sands, alone or doing something more interesting, I will just do a few command emotes.

A final, poor excuse of mine is I often miss the time progression if I'm indoors and don't regularly check it, so I would certainly fail to meet the routine time of eating, or be busy at the time, and probably forget altogether. That's mostly because I'm forgetful about such things, though.

[Saellyn]

Only problem I can see with eating a meal at a set time every day, is being too full to eat any more quite quickly, at least in my experience. Time's a bit out of whack too, so people usually don't sleep every night, or usually every other night either.

Having said that, if my PC is in a room with others who are also hanging around, I do try to represent a normal meal but spacing out my eats between talking and emotes. If I'm out on the sands, alone or doing something more interesting, I will just do a few command emotes.

A final, poor excuse of mine is I often miss the time progression if I'm indoors and don't regularly check it, so I would certainly fail to meet the routine time of eating, or be busy at the time, and probably forget altogether. That's mostly because I'm forgetful about such things, though.

%e in your prompt, that's the code for "current time, if available".

[BleakOne]

%e in your prompt, that's the code for "current time, if available".

Cool, thanks. 

[Barzalene]

There is a huge difference between eating and spellcasting.

If you are a minion and you are tasked with standing at someone's arm while they sit, or if you're on the road or whatever you don't have to spellcast. You don't get messages insisting that you have a burning urge to cast. If you wait too long, you don't get a physical penalty that further enforces that need.

You choose you moment.

Often you're not free to go off and have a leisurely emoted meal. You're not rping eating. You're making the annoying hunger prompts go away.

I'm not saying that's good. I'm not defending this. I'm just explaining it.

[Samoa]

Well, I eat in two different ways.

Here's the thing: In-game, we can sometimes have conversations that last OVER A DAY. Like, sun up to sun down and then sun up again. That's ridiculous. That *doesn't* really happen, but we just kind of ignore it for the sake of working through the game -- the scenario, the story, the roleplay, is more important than the coded response from "time" in that case, right? I'd be willing to wager we ALL kind of feel that way.

If I am in the middle of a 'scene', frankly, I just ignore the hunger messages. I just straight up don't care. If my character is in the middle of having an emotional breakdown, and I get "you are hungry," I really don't think she's going to stop, whip out a travel cake or mekillot steak, and just dig in. What if I wind up in this situation when I'm at "very hungry," and playing it out turns to famished, or even starving? It's not important. It really isn't. Much like having a nervous breakdown conversation doesn't take *TWO DAYS*, I just have to assume that my hunger level has not increased by a factor of two days. I'll finish my scene, and then when the scenario, the little story-fraction, is over, I will eat. I will eat playing it out as if I'm really fucking hungry, but the messages, I'm sorry -- they're not important to me when compared to playing out a scene where it's not plausible that I'd stop and break into some food.

If I am not in the middle of a scene, I eat when I'm hungry, or at the LATEST, when I'm "very hungry." If I reach a point of being 'famished' or 'starving', I will act famished or starving (because there was no implausible time lapse, as above), but I try to avoid reaching this point. I will emote having the food and eating it bit by bit in conversation, and if it is a food item that is eaten in a 'single bite', I will actually emote having more food than really exists. If, for instance, I have a mug of ale that is emptied even with one 'sip' instead of one 'drink', I will emote drinking from it several times, eventually use the drink command (which, codedly, empties it) and then continue to emote drinking it until I feel like my character would've finished it. I view the ale and its volume as just a prop (which, really, is all ANYTHING here is). If it's better, story and roleplay wise, to have more than one "drink ale" worth of ale, then I'm just going to have more ale; I don't care. If it's a food item that is consumed in a single "Eat food," then I'll emote about nibbling on it during conversation, picking pieces up, whatever, and then I'll eat it, and then a bit later I'll emote finishing it.

So, to answer your question: I never spam eat, I always roleplay out my eating, but in MOST CASES, I don't really care at all about the messages the game gives me; GENERALLY, I just view them as guidelines. To me, "you are hungry" is often the same as "you are famished," because most of the time I'm involved with a scene and the scene is better served by ignoring the food message because time passes unrealistically fast when you are engaged in conversation or extended emoting.

[Cutthroat]

Do you have your characters eat a regular meal (or even better, meals) every day, or do you wait for the 'You are hungry' messages to kick in before eating? 

When you do eat, do you intersperse it with other actions, such as talking, or working on something as people do in real life?

If you are spam eating, do you have an in character reason for doing so?

My characters with access to plentiful amounts of food usually eat regularly. Otherwise, they're more likely to be conserving their food and eating when they feel hungry.

If my PC has something to do or talk with while eating, they do those things or talk with those people. If eating is going to be "solo RP", then it's much more convenient (to me, at least) to throw out one or two command emotes about eating something per every two or three 'eat' commands, and quickly find some interaction afterward. Sometimes it's possible to set up a meal with other people, but unless your PC has something unique to offer there isn't much of a point to doing it repeatedly.

[valeria]

If my PC has something to do or talk with while eating, they do those things or talk with those people. If eating is going to be "solo RP", then it's much more convenient (to me, at least) to throw out one or two command emotes about eating something per every two or three 'eat' commands, and quickly find some interaction afterward. Sometimes it's possible to set up a meal with other people, but unless your PC has something unique to offer there isn't much of a point to doing it repeatedly.

This is pretty much me.  But more specifically:

Do you have your characters eat a regular meal (or even better, meals) every day, or do you wait for the 'You are hungry' messages to kick in before eating?

My characters that have access to food eat regular meals.

Sometimes, the really busy characters will go way, way, way past 'you are hungry' though.  Either because they forget to bring food with them (and either they aren't in an area where you can purchase food, or it is ridiculously-fucking-expensive and they can't justify buying it), or because it would be socially inappropriate to dig out some food to eat, or for any number of reasons.

When you do eat, do you intersperse it with other actions, such as talking, or working on something as people do in real life?

Sometimes.  If there are other things my character would want to be doing, like talking, working, etc.  But most of the time my character is going to be in a designated eating location, and most of the time there is no one else around, so they are going to be focused on eating so they can get back to doing whatever else it is they do.  Kind of like I do in real life.

My general problem with social eating is that if you're not crafting your own food or don't have portable-type clan food, you will have a harder time coming up with wanting to each socially, because it is generally ridiculously-fucking-expensive to buy any food in any of the taverns, and if my character is eating burned tuber/meat/bread #552 because they can't afford to waste it, why would she want anyone knowing she's poor enough to eat that crap?  Unless the character doesn't care or wants to be thought of as poor.

If you are spam eating, do you have an in character reason for doing so?

I only rarely spam-eat in public, like one of your examples, but when my character is spam-eating her reason is usually that she needs to bolt this food down so she isn't late to chores/work/etc.  Or... there really is no other way to eat Byn stew, you just have to open your throat and let it slide down.  Or my character is literally about to pass out from hunger, and they want that food right now.  And even then I'll usually toss on a couple command emotes, but that doesn't make the spammy nature of the eating any less spammy.

The necessity of obtaining food is one of those things that makes Armageddon very Armageddonesque, and I would never want to do away with food or hunger requirements.  But sometimes you need your character to just have that food eaten.  Kind of like you need your character to get across town in a hurry.  Other times I might chat, do other emotes, etc, while walking across town or eating food, but sometimes you and your character just need to get from point A to point B quickly.  As someone who spam-eats in real life, I don't think it's that unrealistic to quickly bolt a meal down so you'll stop being hungry and so you can go on to something else.

[Chettaman]

I love Morg.
I remember once. Just one of my mates IC wanting to sit down and actually have a meal with me other then the usual, "chuckle-chuckle, good joke to mudsex" scenario. I think that was awesome. And I send her kudos for this!
Ha. The funny part is it lasted as long as mudsex.

[boog]

Edit: I say this as someone who had a character that built many meals and food scenes into an extended relationship and flirtation with another character. And yes, when I'm on my own, etc., eating as part of my character's routine isn't a bother. But the most important moments in my character's life often don't fit well with chowing down.

You mean I'm not the only one who paused in between scarfing down jallals so I could eek out more RP time? Schweet.

Personally, each of my characters eats differently. Some eat nicely. Some only eat some things nicely. Some scarf things down because of IG reason: not wanting others to get their food, not wanting to share, very hungry bellies ...

But I hate spam eating. It makes me angry. I dislike seeing "soandso eats <blah>" x10 rolling on the screen. But it's their choice.

[Feco]

I dislike when people spam eat a fucking steak the size of a dwarf.  Then act like a "emote licks his fingers" makes it okay.  It's jarring.

Just stop it.  I realize in dangerous situations you don't want to sit there and have a meal... but just take one or two god damn bites of that fruit, stick it in your pocket, and go on your merry way.  You can eat the whole thing later.

I'm not immune to having sucked down a fruit in 10 seconds, but I try to avoid doing it, and I don't think I've done it in a long time.

[SMuz]

I roleplay it, but there are times when it's just not really the focus of the roleplay. There are times where there are more interesting things, like the conversation or when someone is giving a speech. Eat all strikes me as something to do when eating is just not part of the roleplay. There's a time when I downgrade my emotes to hemotes (just because it's so crowded), that's when I don't roleplay eating.

Same goes for some other things. I mean, roleplaying salt foraging is sometimes the prime of my character's roleplaying day. But there are times out there, with friends, when I don't really bother with the salt foraging roleplay, and focus more on the conversation.

Compare it to RL. Sometimes I'm eating a bag of potato chips. Or popcorn. I'll eat it slowly, throughout an hour or so. But it's not really something that should 'echo'. And sometimes I'll just spam eat a bowl of cereal before I run off to class. It's not much different than a Bynner scarfing down the remains of that stew at dawn. It's just fading out on the eat roleplay, because people are not interested in that right now.

There are times when eating is a social activity, like on an interview, on a date, or just plain hanging out. That's fine, but not applicable all the time.

[Marshmellow]

If my character is in a social situation with other characters, I will often roleplay eating.  In private when I'm doing other things and not trying to create an engaging scene for anyone but myself and I just want to get sit done?  Yeah, I'll spam-eat sometimes.

[Lizzie]

I spam-eat buttered popcorn in real life with zero emotes. It's a weekly ritual. Nuke popcorn. Melt butter. Turn on America's Next Top Model two minutes before the show actually starts. Before they can get through the "Last week, we saw this" segment, the popcorn bowl is empty. I feel no compunction to do otherwise in game with my character. Unfortunately, there exists no popcorn in game. And so I substitute for uncooked meat, raw roots, fruits, and the occasional mek steak from the local grocery store/apartment/festival/clan compound.

I do avoid spam-eating in social settings - and I have actually gotten up and removed myself from the social setting, just so I can take care of the hunger echo without causing screen scroll for other people. I also do use (and enjoy) the emote functionality of the eat/drink/taste/sip commands, when I'm not spamming them.

[hyzhenhok]

I don't view "spam eating" as a jarring thing. Some people view eating as a chore: something that has to be done, but not necessarily needs to be made into a ritual. I imagine lots of Zalanthans fall into this: they don't have time to waste on actually eating a "meal"; they need to spend that time earning their 'sid for their next meal. So they eat quickly.

And what's with this accusation of "spam eating' anyway? If I could eat the damn fruit or bowl of soup in a single command, I could attach a command emote to very easily indicate how I eat, how long I take, etc. Instead of having to worry about codedly eating it over a set period of time and having to enter the eat command over the correct interval, I could issue a single command and then spend the rest of my effort grappling with the code on actual roleplaying. Whenever I "spam eat" that's what I'm treating it as: the damn code forces me to tell you I'm eating the fruit five times, but please just pay attention to my emotes if you want to know how I'm eating.

In general I'm in favor of allowing a degree of abstraction into the game. Say my character is hungry, so they stop by the grocer to buy a fruit to eat on the way home. Yes, I could spend a lot of time and effort crafting a beautiful scene of how my 'rinthi breed slowly ate through the rotten petoch as he moved through the alleys. I don't, because it is not terribly interesting, I've probably done it before 10 times with this PC alone, and doing so means spending too much time and effort that would be better spent elsewhere. So I emote "eats the fruit as he walks down the alley" and spam eat it until it is no longer in my inventory, and move on to the next order of business.

[Celest]

I think it really depends on context. If you're a noble in the presence of a Templar having a meal together, with a character who likes to savor things who has little coded hunger then emoting out the eating would be more appropriate. However, if you're a (ICly and codedly) starving rinther who just found a stale, moldy piece of bread who just wants to get it down without it coming back up again then I can see spam eating, though obviously it's a good idea to emote why your PC is spam eating. Usually, spam eating it done because of the code time constraints and weirdness.

If it's a big problem, however, why not add a short delay before you can eat? Something like 2 seconds between each usage of the eat command seems fair, and I think would send the message that it's not very realistic to spam eat, especially with the proper echo.

Code Select Expand

eat fruit
eat fruit

You take a bite of the fruit.

Slow down, you can't swallow it whole!

Edit: If the problem is people not RPing their eating, then I'll say that I don't do it because generally I find it boring to RP out eating. Most of the food that my characters eat isn't going to be interesting or food to be savored. They're eating it to make the pain in their stomach go away. In the few instances where food is interesting or to be savored, I've noticed that I'll have my characters eat it slowly and take their time... until they get used to it, and then it's back to eating it to make their stomach stop aching.

I also like the idea raised elsewhere of "eat" giving a flavor echo. You should always taste your food, no matter how large the bite is, and my impression that the "taste" command was just to take a smaller bite. The same goes for sip and drink. I think with some expanded flavor echoes, that change would help to solve this problem. A lot of times I've had a character who asks someone how something tastes as they're eating it, only to have them use eat instead of taste before they realize the question asked. I can feel their player going "Oh, oops," with the resulting "Yeah, it tastes good" emote, because it makes no sense to say, "Oh, sorry, I have no idea how it tastes because I ate it too fast and took bites that were too big." This lends itself to some weirdness, because the answer is almost always a bland, "Yeah, it's good," no matter what the taste echo is. It can be strikingly sour, or succulent and juicy, or bitter, and almost all players in this situation will offer the same cautious response.

If players are given IC feedback about what they're eating, beyond it making them less hungry, I think that they'll naturally start to RP around that feedback instead of just scarf everything down. If you keep seeing "The fruit is startlingly sour" as you eat it, you're likely going to slow down and address that with RP, instead of just spam eating it.

[Jdr]

If I 'need' to do something in a roleplay game, it becomes a chore. If I 'want' to do something in a roleplay game, it becomes fun.

[maxid]

People will start stop spameating the day that You are famished! doesn't pop up in the middle of their mudsex.

That was, obviously a joke, but it gets my point across.  If a conversation/event lasts from Your are full! to You are famished! in terms of code (not uncommon really, for highly social PCs) I'm not going to stop and pose out eating the 4 full steaks it would require for the constant bleating of the code to go away.  I'm going to shove them in my mouth, and act like nothing ever happened, so my PC doesn't die because he decided to go talk to Templar muckity whosit, and he got stuck.

[Yam]

My character needs several bowls of soup or yams or whatever to keep fed and goes from completely full to losing-stats-starving in just a few hours. It's just not practical/fun to draw out meals into a big deal every IC day or so.

There's just too many other (more interesting) things to do and too much time compression RL to IC to emote about eating all the time.

[boog]

My character needs several bowls of soup or yams or whatever to keep fed and goes from completely full to losing-stats-starving in just a few hours. It's just not practical/fun to draw out meals into a big deal every IC day or so.

There's just too many other (more interesting) things to do and too much time compression RL to IC to emote about eating all the time.

Like mudsex.

And yeah. The lower quality food that takes 10 'eat' commands to consume for full hunger regain -do- suck.

[Marauder Moe]

I like to RP eating when I can, but sometimes I'll spam-eat.  Reasons for spam eating are usually right before an RPT and filling up on food is one of many preparations that need doing, or if my character is hungry right before I intend to log out.

I have tried to have characters eat on a regular schedule, but due to the fact that there seems to be a large range between "a little hungry" and completely stuffed with no messages/indications it's very hard to gauge when and how much my character needs to eat.

I guess if anything needs improvement, I think it would be a way to tell more accurately how hungry/full your character is, rather than just:
you are full
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
nothing
a little hungry
hungry
very hungry
famished
starving

[Morgenes]

Caveat: There are lots of factors that I am ignoring in the following numbers, and yes, I'm exposing something that is 'code-y'.  I believe that the arguments here about the amount of time it takes to get to 'starving' are overrated, and so I am showing some average numbers to help prove my point.

To go from not receiving any hunger messages, to 'You are hungry.' is 9 IC hours, 1 IG day or an hour and a half.  If you are full, that time is 4.3 IG days, or 3 hours and 30 minutes.

It takes 20 IG hours for the average human to go from no longer receiving any hunger messages to 'You are starving'.  That's 3 hours and 20 minutes of play time (just over 2 IG days) without being 'forced' to eat.  

If you actually eat all the way to the point where you get the 'You are full.' message, you have 8 hours and 20 minutes of play time (5 and a half IG days) without being 'forced' to eat.

There are many ways to find more filling foods, including utilizing cooking skills and choosing other food sources.

To look at the specific ones specified by 'Yam', an uncooked yam has half the filling nature of a cooked one (burned or successful).  If you took the time to acquire or cook your food, you could reduce how much you would have to eat in half.  Each cooked yam gives you 2/3 of a IG day's worth of food.

Personally, I know you guys think it's annoying, and I also know enough to know that I'm very unlikely to sway that opinion, but IMO I think it's about right.  I'm sorry you're bothered by it, and I hope you'll take this thread for what I intended it, a helpful reminder to think about your character's stomach and involving it in making your character a more thought out, living character.

The only helpful suggestion I've seen is Moe's suggestion of adding in messages once you get beyond 'You are no longer hungry', and head towards 'You are full'.

[Marauder Moe]

Well, I don't think we need any more echoes between full and "a little hungry", but I think in the score it should show your hunger level more accurately.

Echoing the more accurate description after eating/tasting would be fine, though.

Word ideas for extra hunger levels:
Stuffed
Full
Satisfied
Not hungry
Peckish

[Morgenes]

We don't actually allow you to eat beyond 'full', unlike our own human bodies, so 'stuffed' wouldn't be possible.

[Yam]

Caveat: There are lots of factors that I am ignoring in the following numbers, and yes, I'm exposing something that is 'code-y'.  I believe that the arguments here about the amount of time it takes to get to 'starving' are overrated, and so I am showing some average numbers to help prove my point.

To go from not receiving any hunger messages, to 'You are hungry.' is 9 IC hours, 1 IG day or an hour and a half.  If you are full, that time is 4.3 IG days, or 3 hours and 30 minutes.

It takes 20 IG hours for the average human to go from no longer receiving any hunger messages to 'You are starving'.  That's 3 hours and 20 minutes of play time (just over 2 IG days) without being 'forced' to eat.  

If you actually eat all the way to the point where you get the 'You are full.' message, you have 8 hours and 20 minutes of play time (5 and a half IG days) without being 'forced' to eat.

There are many ways to find more filling foods, including utilizing cooking skills and choosing other food sources.

To look at the specific ones specified by 'Yam', an uncooked yam has half the filling nature of a cooked one (burned or successful).  If you took the time to acquire or cook your food, you could reduce how much you would have to eat in half.  Each cooked yam gives you 2/3 of a IG day's worth of food.

Personally, I know you guys think it's annoying, and I also know enough to know that I'm very unlikely to sway that opinion, but IMO I think it's about right.  I'm sorry you're bothered by it, and I hope you'll take this thread for what I intended it, a helpful reminder to think about your character's stomach and involving it in making your character a more thought out, living character.

The only helpful suggestion I've seen is Moe's suggestion of adding in messages once you get beyond 'You are no longer hungry', and head towards 'You are full'.

I'm talking about cooked yams. And yams are more filling than most foods IIRC.

Also different sized characters get hungry at different rates (I think because they have smaller 'tanks'). It really isn't that big of a deal for a huge elf or a dwarf. It's pretty damn annoying as a small human.



It's not really a big deal in the first place, but getting hungry happens often enough that I'm not going to want to play it out frequently. I don't tend to play out defecating that often either.

[Yam]

Eat all isn't mutually exclusive with roleplaying out the act of eating either. It would just get rid of useless "The tall, muscular man eats part of a bowl of stew"x10 messages while he's bullshitting with his mercenary pals in the mess hall.

[Kismetic]

When I do let my PC go codedly hungry, it's usually for a reason. Or their player has been too inept to make them enough money to feed them properly. Sorry, characters.

This.  And usually, I do try to emote eating, especially if I'm RPing with others.  When I'm solo RPing, I'm about fifty/fifty about gobbling down a bunch of food, but you never know who's watching.  Like idling, I usually only spam anything in a place where I think only imms can see me suck at life.

Great topic, though.  Something to think about.

Edit:  Can we raise the cap on cooking so that anyone can do it?  Cooking is something anyone can learn, isn't it?  And burnt up food leading to exorbitant cost could be a leading factor in getting to a point where you feel you -have- to stuff your face?

PSS:  Or change the frequency of how often food is burned, perhaps?  I'd say, IRL, I'm an apprentice cook, but rarely, if ever, burn a steak.  Mindful of the fact that my teflon pan and stove are nice props, it would still stand to reason that Zalanthans would adapt, and not waste so much food.

[maxid]

Personally, I know you guys think it's annoying, and I also know enough to know that I'm very unlikely to sway that opinion, but IMO I think it's about right.  I'm sorry you're bothered by it, and I hope you'll take this thread for what I intended it, a helpful reminder to think about your character's stomach and involving it in making your character a more thought out, living character.

Hey no, you misunderstand.  I don't find it annoying at all.  If we didn't have the starvation code, the mud would lose a lot, the timing is even appropriate.  I just answered your question.  I've had sessions where I saw on the game for 8 hours (yes I'm a loser, so what? ) and so at the end, since I'd been in a conversation with a guy for 2 hours already, that would've taken 20m IRL I spamate real quick.  You asked why we all spammed eating, I was just explaining why.  It's a necessary evil that the timer for eating, and the increased time it takes to have a conversation lead to some unrealistic scenarios, but it's one I'm ok with entirely.

[jhunter]

I like to rp it out at least some of the time, mostly when interacting with other pcs while my pc eats. When my pc is alone I'll spam eat sometimes, others I'll rp it only because I'm bored and it gives me something to do. Like someone else said, I do kinda feel like I run out of ideas to "spice up" my eating emotes, etc. I do like to give my pcs a favorite food or something though.

Edit:
Which actually, was along the thread of thoughts that lead me to the suggestion about having the taste message given when normally eating. I was thinking that without having to stop and use a separate command to get the taste information, we could get it more realistically and it would give me reminders/ideas about how my character might respond to the flavor of what they were eating or drinking. As it is currently, eating seems like a purely mechanical thing that gives no "feedback" response to the character. The flavor messages would be an....IC "reward?" for the action of eating besides just making the coded message go away if it's coming up.

[hyzhenhok]

We don't actually allow you to eat beyond 'full', unlike our own human bodies, so 'stuffed' wouldn't be possible.

Isn't the system already abstract enough that you could arbitrarily redefine what is now "full" to "stuffed"?

It's nice that the staff is so hesitant to redefine and retcon things that are already present in the game, but on some occasions it just leaves me feeling puzzled.

[valeria]

Please please please on the more specific messages, that would be so cool.

[smcdonald]

Interesting topic, indeed.

If I am eating while with other people, I do usually intersperse eat or drink commands with other actions.  In fact, in those situations I often use the sip or taste command, to spread it out even more.  But if I'm at a tavern, somehow I'm reluctant to spend coin on the expensive foods, especially if I have easy access to free food somewhere.  At the same time, I am reluctant to pull my own food or drink out and consume it while I'm at a tavern.  It would feel like pulling my own sandwich out while sitting at a diner.  I do buy often buy drinks while socializing at a tavern, and I think I've done pretty well with that in all my characters, but I should work more on eating too.  Most of my eating happens when I'm alone, often when I'm cooking.  In that situation, I do frequently do successive eat commands (though usually with some seconds between them).  This is a potential area of improvement.

[a strange shadow]

Well, I don't think we need any more echoes between full and "a little hungry", but I think in the score it should show your hunger level more accurately.

Echoing the more accurate description after eating/tasting would be fine, though.

Word ideas for extra hunger levels:
Stuffed
Full
Satisfied
Not hungry
Peckish

This.

[Barzalene]

I just want to say this, and if I misunderstood you, Morgenes, forgive me. I'm not complaining that I don't want hunger messages, and I'm not complaining about not having an eat all message.

I, being the sort of person who waits for the light to change even if the streets are empty, do throw out obligatory emotes as I spam eat. However, I confess that I'm often not rping. I'm emoting, but not rping.
I rp eating when I sit down to eat with someone. I rp eating when it's the focus of what my pc is about.
I do spam eat though. Sometimes, stuffing food down my pc's face is not the point and I just want to get it over with.

I need everyone to be alright with that.

[boog]

Edit:  Can we raise the cap on cooking so that anyone can do it?  Cooking is something anyone can learn, isn't it?  And burnt up food leading to exorbitant cost could be a leading factor in getting to a point where you feel you -have- to stuff your face?

PSS:  Or change the frequency of how often food is burned, perhaps?  I'd say, IRL, I'm an apprentice cook, but rarely, if ever, burn a steak.  Mindful of the fact that my teflon pan and stove are nice props, it would still stand to reason that Zalanthans would adapt, and not waste so much food.

I like this suggestion.

[maxid]

Well, I don't think we need any more echoes between full and "a little hungry", but I think in the score it should show your hunger level more accurately.

Echoing the more accurate description after eating/tasting would be fine, though.

Word ideas for extra hunger levels:
Stuffed
Full
Satisfied
Not hungry
Peckish

I'd want these to show up in Score, not spam me/my logs.  In fact, I wouldn't mind if I didn't get -any- messages above 'hungry.'  I check score/stat like it's going out of style anyway, but it's easier to clean my logs up if that line isn't there.

[wizturbo]

I think the lack of roleplay surrounding eating is mostly due to there being no set routine in each character's daily life.  People don't have structured, scheduled times that they eat.  It's just one long multi-day stretch for a typical play session.  The accelerated time of Arm is partly responsible for this, but it's just one disadvantage of a system that has many advantages.

[Lizzie]

Actually Morgenes, that information you posted about the "general" timing of hunger, is very useful. With a "numerical" guideline, I can pace myself, and know that after awhile, it's okay to take out a whole "something" and try to eat it, and eat it successfully..without being "full" halfway through and having to throw the rest away. Hate throwing half a mek steak away, but hate the idea of putting it in a pocket. So I'd rather know when eating one isn't going to put me over the top halfway through.

So thanks for posting that general info. I realize it's not exact and there's lots of criteria that goes into it. But it's still more useful than not knowing anything, and not trying because of lack of knowledge, or feeling like I have to spend a lot of time puzzling out mathematical formulae just so I can know when it's a good time to eat. Now, I can better plan my character's breaks. Which means I'll have more tools with which to roleplay.

[Marshmellow]

Edit:  Can we raise the cap on cooking so that anyone can do it?  Cooking is something anyone can learn, isn't it?  And burnt up food leading to exorbitant cost could be a leading factor in getting to a point where you feel you -have- to stuff your face?

PSS:  Or change the frequency of how often food is burned, perhaps?  I'd say, IRL, I'm an apprentice cook, but rarely, if ever, burn a steak.  Mindful of the fact that my teflon pan and stove are nice props, it would still stand to reason that Zalanthans would adapt, and not waste so much food.

I like this suggestion.

Everyone can cook already.  Everyone starts off sucking just like every other skill, so no skill need be raised.  Staff have already done some examination of burning food as well, iirc.

[boog]

Except it's capped ridiculously low for non-crafters, isn't it?

[Xeran Van Houten]

No.

[Marshmellow]

No.

+1.

Seriously, get out there and cook with your characters.  Don't spam cook, but cook like a real person does, enough for your character to eat at one meal, repeat whenever your character gets hungry.  This is, of course, if your character should be the sort to do this... instead of eat the meat raw, or buy ready-to-eat food that costs as much as most people will spend on food in a week, etc.  Many if not most classes allow people to become at least adequate if not awesome cooks.

[Cindy42]

Do you have your characters eat a regular meal (or even better, meals) every day, or do you wait for the 'You are hungry' messages to kick in before eating? 
Yes. Starting at the first or second You're a little hungry, I whip out something to eat if I'm somewhere I can sit down.

When you do eat, do you intersperse it with other actions, such as talking, or working on something as people do in real life?
Not really. I sometimes like waiting to get to the bar before eating if I can help it, and then concentrate on eating and drinking. I never eat when I work, and if someone talks to me while I'm eating that's just a coincidence. Emotes are the rarest when I'm eating and drinking.

If you are spam eating, do you have an in character reason for doing so?
I spam eat ALL the time. If I know I'm seconds away from losing health, I eat instead of taste, but that's usually the only exception. If something interesting is going on in the room, I wait between bites for a minute or so, usually to make sure the others know I'm currently busy eating as I watch. This stems ENTIRELY from me almost always playing a character who struggles simply to survive, and I don't want to waste a bite of food, which eat or drink commands might do. I enjoy spam eating, like I enjoy regular RL eating without gulping it down.

[Lizzie]

Cindy, eat and drink commands don't waste food. In fact, it's the sip and taste commands that cause you to consume things even after you're full/sated.

If you type "eat cake" and you're full, then you get a message saying you can't eat anymore. And you can then roleplay wrapping up that last morsel and saving it for later, thus preventing waste.

If you type "taste cake" and you're full, you continue to use up that cake, until you either stop tasting it, or until it's gone.

[Case]

I spam eat, or at least eat fast, when alone because I do not feel I have to RP so slowly or dramatically for my own purposes. I RP eating a lot and I have to eat a lot. I'm online a lot.

Do you have your characters eat a regular meal (or even better, meals) every day, or do you wait for the 'You are hungry' messages to kick in before eating? 
I eat if there's a legitimate pause in RP or whatever. I starve often.

When you do eat, do you intersperse it with other actions, such as talking, or working on something as people do in real life?
If with others, always. If alone, not always. Maybe one bite per room if I'm walking around.

If you are spam eating, do you have an in character reason for doing so?
Yes.

The way hunger code is doesn't bother me too much. It feels well paced at times but often not. When the time compression is so high, it will always have this effect because a couple of RL hours is almost nothing to the human body in regards to hunger, so our cues as players do not match up. A person IRL can definitely survive longer and better without food than a Zalanthan ceteris paribus though.

I do find it interesting that, and it's arguable depending on your specific PC but I'm going by my thin experience, that starvation is much worse than dehydration on Arm.

Firstly, my PCs consume much more food than water. Water is a bigger problem if travelling, but if I'm in the city, water is a thing I drink a half skin of every 2 or 3 RL days of heavy playtime, maybe longer than that. It barely comes up. I have never dehydrated except when trying to. In comparison, food is a constant worry, coming up every couple of hours.

Secondly, the effects of starvation vs dehydration are, imo, far worse in the former category. I would argue they're around the wrong way. The human body is far more able to go without food than water, especially if one keeps fed most of the time. The effects of starvation, at least early stages of it, are not dramatic. Dehydration is immediately serious and gets progressively worse very quickly. If the effects of these were swapped, I think there would be less of a need to worry about starvation immediately, if they're doing something relatively safe, giving players more leeway with when to eat, and also possibly leading to the more realistic situation where you starve so much you can't get water and die of dehydration first.

Moe's idea of a scale of reported fullness between not hungry and full is excellent and would be very helpful for planning ahead.

[a strange shadow]

I've never seen 'starving' in my entire gaming existence. I've been involved in some pretty lengthy scenes.

You people do realize you can keep eating after your 'hungry' prompt goes away, until you are too full to eat, right?

I mean, I guess I just kind of don't get it.

As for emoting out eating, that would be easier and less annoying if it didn't take (for example) so many bites to down a bowl of Byn stew.

I always roleplay eating though. I mean, if you're eating, your character's hungry, and therefore it's a logical IC reaction to eat, making it roleplay. Might not be pretty roleplay if I'm (theoretically) alone in the barracks and wanting to hurry on to the next scene for some interaction, but it's still roleplay.

[jhunter]

I've never seen 'starving' in my entire gaming existence.

Yeah, the only time I've actually seen it is because I was playing drunk and fell asleep at the keyboard. Woke up to my pc starving to death. 

[FantasyWriter]

I've played poor PCs who I never let get above "a little hungry/thirsty" unless it was by accident.

[a strange shadow]

Well, good for you, but that's deliberate. I'm talking about all these people who are evidently letting their PCs starve to death during lengthy scenes. Heh.

[titansfan]

I don't really have problems with this...alone I just eat something until I'm not hungry. Just as I would IRL, if I'm with someone else I throw in eat ham-smothered-in-honey (tearing off a piece with his, ofcourse, perfect teeth). I don't mind if people just chow down in front of my PC's....although my PC's might just think their are disgusting or poor and starving...one of those reactions.

[Shepard]

Just make "eat all" have a lag to it, where you can still emote and speak. It will change your ldesc is here eating a bowl of soup. Essentially it would be like crafting. Players wouldn't have to worry about multiple eat messages, and the lag would force this idea of roleplaying eating. *Shrug*

I personally think this would be a waste of time for the coders, as the eat code is what it is, and works. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[zakattack]

Spam eating irritates me. Back to back: eat item; !;!;!;! gets really old. At least you could spice it up with taking a few bites, or wiping off lips, taking a drink, etc. How many people really slurp down food in two seconds without anything else in between? As far as I am concerned it feels like you just set an action with your mud client.

[hyzhenhok]

Spam eating irritates me. Back to back: eat item; !;!;!;! gets really old. At least you could spice it up with taking a few bites, or wiping off lips, taking a drink, etc. How many people really slurp down food in two seconds without anything else in between? As far as I am concerned it feels like you just set an action with your mud client.

Maybe we understand some things in the game are abstracted and not everything has to be literal.

[SMuz]

I don't really see what people have against spam eating. I know plenty of people who gobble up food IRL, and it's not even one of those things I'd notice unless I was actively watching them. More like "Huh, you're done eating? I've barely touched my food."

[Cindy42]

Cindy, eat and drink commands don't waste food. In fact, it's the sip and taste commands that cause you to consume things even after you're full/sated.

If you type "eat cake" and you're full, then you get a message saying you can't eat anymore. And you can then roleplay wrapping up that last morsel and saving it for later, thus preventing waste.

If you type "taste cake" and you're full, you continue to use up that cake, until you either stop tasting it, or until it's gone.

I did say that I rarely use the eat command unless its serious, and that I always taste most of the time, and that I spam eat all the time. Thanks for the stuff, but I already know all this, and am not sure why you said it.

[Lizzie]

This is why I posted, since you're asking why I posted...

This stems ENTIRELY from me almost always playing a character who struggles simply to survive, and I don't want to waste a bite of food, which eat or drink commands might do. I enjoy spam eating, like I enjoy regular RL eating without gulping it down.

My response, is that eat/drink commands do -not- waste food, but rather it's the sip/taste commands that DO waste food. So if that is your entire reason to do it, you're doing it backward.

Also, I think maybe some people (including you, but not exclusively you) aren't understanding what is meant by spam eating. Spam -anything- would be to use a command with rapid-fire speed, with no delay, no roleplay, no occasional pauses to explain the sudden influx of screen scroll. Such as:

get fruit pack; taste fruit; taste fruit; taste fruit; taste fruit; taste fruit; taste fruit; get fruit pack; eat fruit; eat fruit; eat fruit; eat fruit; eat fruit.

Or...
get feather pack; get freather pack; get feather pack; get feather pack; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; get feather pack; get freather pack; get feather pack; get feather pack; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; get feather pack; get freather pack; get feather pack; get feather pack; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; get feather pack; get freather pack; get feather pack; get feather pack; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; get feather pack; get freather pack; get feather pack; get feather pack; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag; put feather bag;

That's spam-commanding. Spam eating is the same thing, except with eat <food> as the command.

I do it often but I avoid doing it in front of people. I don't "like" doing it, but then, I don't "like" my character being forced to be hungry. I always assume she eats, sleeps, and takes a pee when I'm logged out.

[Kalai]

I don't really see what people have against spam eating. I know plenty of people who gobble up food IRL, and it's not even one of those things I'd notice unless I was actively watching them. More like "Huh, you're done eating? I've barely touched my food."

Heh. I eat a bit quickly myself; when you have around 5 minutes for lunch and want to get a conversation in too it's a habit one develops.

[Furien]

I don't 'spam eat', but I avoid eating or emoting out eating for a variety of reasons.

- If my character is out on their own and time is an issue (IE, hunting) I just take it out of their <container> and gobble it up wholesale without a second thought.

- On the other hand if my PC runs into their neighbour in the streets and they strike up a conversation and start getting really hungry, I feel like it's rather awkward to just take something out and start munching.

- Even if I am in a tavern or another eating-appropriate environment, I can only come up with one or two emotes before it looks like I'm deliberately struggling or consulting some sort of thesaurus. Plus, as with look commands, the echoes it gives to the room (depending on the amount of people present) make me feel rather... awkward.

That said, I like emoting cooking far more than I do eating. I'll set up my utensils, test baking bread, flip meat, add spices, whatever, I'll go to fucking town. If I have a self-sufficient NPC working for a noble or a GMH or something with stable food/water supplies, I'll keep them topped off at full in all attributes because I know I'm able to replace it. Anyone else (self-employed, unemployed, generally poor) generally only eats at 'a little/very hungry' message, and only until the message stops coming.

[Nyx]

I typically try to add a bit of emotes into eating, atleast to the point that it is known how I'm eating, spooning up the soup, a spoonful at a time, tilting it back and slurping it. I suppose the biggest problem I've had with it, is the large volume that needs to be consumed, my characters are typically smaller, having to eat two full bowls and some bread to fill her up is a bit absurd. Additionally, a person or rather adult can supposable go three weeks without food before dieing from starvation. If eating very small ammounts I've found that the headaches don't start till about three days and they get progressively worse as a person approaches the three week point. (Had a rough time and survived off of free samples at grocery stores, consisted of stale cheese bites and if I was lucky stale crackers) For somereason while the critters in Arms are physically stronger and more durable than in the real world, they sure do fall over pretty easy when it comes to hunger and water. That being said- I hope noone minds me casually using a repeating emote with an occasional emote during the meal.

[Lizzie]

I typically try to add a bit of emotes into eating, atleast to the point that it is known how I'm eating, spooning up the soup, a spoonful at a time, tilting it back and slurping it. I suppose the biggest problem I've had with it, is the large volume that needs to be consumed, my characters are typically smaller, having to eat two full bowls and some bread to fill her up is a bit absurd. Additionally, a person or rather adult can supposable go three weeks without food before dieing from starvation. If eating very small ammounts I've found that the headaches don't start till about three days and they get progressively worse as a person approaches the three week point. (Had a rough time and survived off of free samples at grocery stores, consisted of stale cheese bites and if I was lucky stale crackers) For somereason while the critters in Arms are physically stronger and more durable than in the real world, they sure do fall over pretty easy when it comes to hunger and water. That being said- I hope noone minds me casually using a repeating emote with an occasional emote during the meal.

Obligitory Lizzie Insert:

Armageddon is fantasy, not reality. Realism is not a priority, nor should it be. The focus should always be a good balance of believability + playability + functionality of code. Realism should, and thankfully does, always fall way down at the bottom of the list, when compared to the other three main attributes Armageddon code and roleplay.

[Qzzrbl]

I typically try to add a bit of emotes into eating, atleast to the point that it is known how I'm eating, spooning up the soup, a spoonful at a time, tilting it back and slurping it. I suppose the biggest problem I've had with it, is the large volume that needs to be consumed, my characters are typically smaller, having to eat two full bowls and some bread to fill her up is a bit absurd. Additionally, a person or rather adult can supposable go three weeks without food before dieing from starvation. If eating very small ammounts I've found that the headaches don't start till about three days and they get progressively worse as a person approaches the three week point. (Had a rough time and survived off of free samples at grocery stores, consisted of stale cheese bites and if I was lucky stale crackers) For somereason while the critters in Arms are physically stronger and more durable than in the real world, they sure do fall over pretty easy when it comes to hunger and water. That being said- I hope noone minds me casually using a repeating emote with an occasional emote during the meal.

Obligitory Lizzie Insert:

Armageddon is fantasy, not reality. Realism is not a priority, nor should it be. The focus should always be a good balance of believability + playability + functionality of code. Realism should, and thankfully does, always fall way down at the bottom of the list, when compared to the other three main attributes Armageddon code and roleplay.

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't know realism took a back seat to everything else.

Either way, having to eat three or four full bowls of stew to get full after you wind up at "starving" when locked in a long conversation-- that comes on to believability, and to a lesser extent, playability.

[Marshmellow]

Actually, one of Arm's selling points is a good amount of realism.  The staff expects us to, by and large, play realistically within the confines of the world.

[hyzhenhok]

Actually, one of Arm's selling points is a good amount of realism.  The staff expects us to, by and large, play realistically within the confines of the world.

How many bites it takes to eat a food object should not be something to be a stickler about realism on.

I am not required to input multiple commands to craft something made from multiple parts. I type one command and then emote the rest. I am not required to input multiple commands to swing my sword more than once at an opponent. I type one command and then emote the rest.

I cannot simply type one command and then emote the rest with eating. But why shouldn't I? Realism? What's unrealistic about "The face-faced manly man eats a petoch fruit"? No one is telling you that he ate it in one bite. I have no idea where this accusation came from, and I'm frankly very surprised to see Morgenes proliferating that interpretation. The code does a lot of things instantaneously that obviously do not occur instantaneously. And if you must, add a command delay.

[Reiteration]

Actually, one of Arm's selling points is a good amount of realism.  The staff expects us to, by and large, play realistically within the confines of the world.

How many bites it takes to eat a food object should not be something to be a stickler about realism on.

I am not required to input multiple commands to craft something made from multiple parts. I type one command and then emote the rest. I am not required to input multiple commands to swing my sword more than once at an opponent. I type one command and then emote the rest.

I cannot simply type one command and then emote the rest with eating. But why shouldn't I? Realism? What's unrealistic about "The face-faced manly man eats a petoch fruit"? No one is telling you that he ate it in one bite. I have no idea where this accusation came from, and I'm frankly very surprised to see Morgenes proliferating that interpretation. The code does a lot of things instantaneously that obviously do not occur instantaneously. And if you must, add a command delay.

#loop 3 { #send eat fruit; #delay 5000; }

I can type one command, emote the rest!

[hyzhenhok]

I can type one command, emote the rest!

Very clever. But everyone saw you "spam eating" and apparently that's bad.

[Qzzrbl]

I can type one command, emote the rest!

Very clever. But everyone saw you "spam eating" and apparently that's bad.

Does get pretty bad when the sarge shouts, "Fill up before we ride out!" though. >_>

That conversation we were having?

Oh, right, hang on, lemme sift through the eat spam, and the occasional half-assed emoted spam-eat spam to find the last thing you said.

[Sokotra]

I didn't realize canned Spam was available in the game.  Isn't that a bit futuristic for the game world?  (did someone make that joke already? I'm too busy spamming through the forums to read everything)


No, I try to space out taking a few bites between other commands unless I'm in a hurry in real life, which is rather frequent.  That's always been a problem with other aspects of the game.  Many people don't have as much time to role-play as others do... or as much as we would like.  Other times there are IC reasons like sitting out in the desert, not prepared to safely rest or whatever... you just have to scarf something down, take a drink, and move on to a safer area or get done whatever you're doing out in the wastes so you can get back into the city or village.

[Thunkkin]

New dwarf focus: The animated eater
-----

The grotty byn sarge says in sirihish:
    "Eat up, men! We ride at dawn!"

emote runs over to the stew pot, pants pee-soaked with anticipatory excitement.

ask cook stew

sit table (rushing over)

eat stew (hurriedly)

emote gulps down a generous bite, smiling significantly to those around him.

eat stew (taking another hurried bite)

phemote short leg jogs wetly with excitement.

eat stew (his spoon scraping against the bowl)

say (through a full mouth) Think we'll live?!

eat stew [licking his lips afterward]

emote finally finishes the bowl.

stand (Falling over himself with a clatter of crappy armor and bounding back toward ~cook like a hungry gortok puppy)

tell cook (waving his arms and expelling a bit of stew spray as he speaks) I'm still hungry! Hurry!

ask cook stew

sit table (falling back into his seat, barely able to get his legs up over the bench)

eat stew (slurping loudly)

emote swallows the food in his mouth, since that's normally how one consumes things if one is humanoid and not a weird mutant.

The grotty byn sarge shouts in sirihish:
    "Hurry up, runner!"

say (spoon half-raised to lips, which have no hair above them since #me is dwarf, and holding up four fingers) But Sarge! Ah got three mehr bowls t'go!

[Marshmellow]

Actually, one of Arm's selling points is a good amount of realism.  The staff expects us to, by and large, play realistically within the confines of the world.

How many bites it takes to eat a food object should not be something to be a stickler about realism on.

I never said it was.  I was simply stating that Lizzie's argument wasn't a good one because she said that realism comes in last place as far as the game is concerned.

[jhunter]

It's a matter of personal preference. It's something we're all not going to agree on. Our order of priorities in those regards are going to vary from person to person. That's a big part of why there are so many arguments about the way that things "should be" on the GDB.

[hyzhenhok]

Does it bother anyone else that people can just insta-skin things? Doesn't it get under your skin when your Byn unit's "tracker" insta-skins his 40-44th gortoks in 5 seconds? Obviously something has gone wrong here.

So I think we should change it so you have to type "skin [creature] for [part]" for each item until the corpse is fully skinned, to encourage people to more slowly roleplay out their skinning. Plus, it's more realistic. Have you ever seen someone touch a corpse with a knife and turn into a bunch of pristine animal parts? I sure haven't.

[Rhyden]

I think skinning should have a delay like forage does, giving the skinner enough time to drop off an emote or two.

The delay length would also depend on the size of the beast being skinned.

[SMuz]

I definitely never liked the insta-skinning. It's even worse when you're OOC/ICly pressured for time and someone tells you to rush it, which forces the skinning player to throw out some lame rushed emote. A delay would make it much better.

Don't think everyone would appreciate a delay on eating, though, since spam eating has its place in the game.

[a strange shadow]

I think skinning should have a delay like forage does, giving the skinner enough time to drop off an emote or two.

The delay length would also depend on the size of the beast being skinned.

Yes. This please.

(even if it does mean the Vashineration of Vultures wouldn't have happened)

[jhunter]

Meh, I don't care for adding more delays. I always try to emote out at least part of my skinning attempt if not the whole thing sometimes and I think we have enough delays to -everygoddamnedthing- in the game as it is. I try even harder to emote out the process if it appears any of the other pcs with mine are newer players in the hopes that it will inspire them to do the same. The kinds of delays I envision being added if they were would likely be so long I'd be typing out a book every time during the delay and eventually would become so bored with it that I would cease to emote at all. I'd likely just enter the skin command and flip over to my web browser during the delay. I find that after doing the same crafted item over and over again I end up doing this.

[MeTekillot]

NO. BAD GDB. YOU PUT THAT DERAIL DOWN AND GO BACK TO THE TOPIC. NO. NO. WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT CHEWING ON DADDY'S DERAILS? BAD GDB. BAD.

[BleakOne]

NO. BAD GDB. YOU PUT THAT DERAIL DOWN AND GO BACK TO THE TOPIC. NO. NO. WHAT DID I TELL YOU ABOUT CHEWING ON DADDY'S DERAILS? BAD GDB. BAD.

*whines and slinks off to his kennel*

[musashi]

WARNING: I did not read this entire thread. I read Morg's OP and then a few of the first replies. So sorry if this has already been said but I wanted to toss in my perspective.

The main thing that stuck out to me is the idea that having to eat things multiple times was not so much an inconvenience, but rather a consistency issue, and that's why people were complaining.

What do I mean by that? Well what I mean is that how many bites it takes to eat something, and the size of that something as portrayed in its description, can be pretty wonky sometimes. A lot of the "full course super meals" that nobles have hiding psionic and sorcerous aides whip up for them take fewer bites to fully consume than say ... a jallal fruit.

For me, the main appeal of being able to fully eat something in one go is that it would empower me, the player, to base how long it should be taking my character on what the item's description says, rather than what I OOC'ly know from past experience is the rough amount of bites it's going to be.

I hate getting caught in awkward moments like

Code Select Expand

> (popping the small fruit into ^me mouth) eat fruit
Poppng the small fruit into your mouth, you eat a part of your small fruit.
> eat fruit
You eat a part of your small fruit.
>eat fruit
>eat fruit
>eat fruit
>eat fruit
>eat fruit
You eat a part of your small fruit.
You eat a part of your small fruit.
You eat a part of your partially eaten small fruit.
You eat a part of your partially eaten small fruit.
You eat a part of your half eaten small fruit.

Equally annoying are these moments:

Code Select Expand

>taste meal (putting just a little on the tip of ^me tongue to savor the flavor)
Putting just a little on the tip of your tongue to savor the flavor, you take a bite of your now half eaten full course meal.
It tastes great, here's an awesome taste echo!

Is it the end of the world? No of course not. And a little OOC knowledge avoids the problem altogether if you happen to know already which food objects have whacky rates of consumption and which don't.

But my point is that I always thought people wanting to have an "eat all" command coded, wanted that to further enrich their RP by avoiding these situations. Not skip out on their RP in favor of spamming commands. At least that's where I'm coming from.

[chrisdcoulombe]

  Eat Brains;Eatbrains;Eat Brainz;Eatbrains
Say (chewing voraciously)  Mmm brainz!

[Naida]

If the problem is people not RPing their eating, then I'll say that I don't do it because generally I find it boring to RP out eating. Most of the food that my characters eat isn't going to be interesting or food to be savored. They're eating it to make the pain in their stomach go away. In the few instances where food is interesting or to be savored, I've noticed that I'll have my characters eat it slowly and take their time... until they get used to it, and then it's back to eating it to make their stomach stop aching.

I also like the idea raised elsewhere of "eat" giving a flavor echo. You should always taste your food, no matter how large the bite is, and my impression that the "taste" command was just to take a smaller bite. The same goes for sip and drink. I think with some expanded flavor echoes, that change would help to solve this problem. A lot of times I've had a character who asks someone how something tastes as they're eating it, only to have them use eat instead of taste before they realize the question asked. I can feel their player going "Oh, oops," with the resulting "Yeah, it tastes good" emote, because it makes no sense to say, "Oh, sorry, I have no idea how it tastes because I ate it too fast and took bites that were too big." This lends itself to some weirdness, because the answer is almost always a bland, "Yeah, it's good," no matter what the taste echo is. It can be strikingly sour, or succulent and juicy, or bitter, and almost all players in this situation will offer the same cautious response.

If players are given IC feedback about what they're eating, beyond it making them less hungry, I think that they'll naturally start to RP around that feedback instead of just scarf everything down. If you keep seeing "The fruit is startlingly sour" as you eat it, you're likely going to slow down and address that with RP, instead of just spam eating it.

Time for me to toss in my two sid-worth.  First of all, I love Celest's idea.  I've always thought 'taste' was more of a coded thing to check to see if something was safe to consume, and that eating it -should- echo the flavor text to the eater.  Or even better, for some foods - esp mastercraft cooking - echo progressive flavor text to the dining pc, so each bite gets a little more into the food and experiences the flavour combinations the maker envisioned.

Example:  An heirloom Steinali tuber in escru cream, with vordac and ginka reduction
1) Seared perfectly, the tuber's skin is crisp and light, mixing well with the succulent tidbits of purple fruit.
2) The flesh of this well-cooked tuber is soft, combining into bursts of sweet creaminess with the accompanying sauces.
3) etc..

It might mean a little more thinking on the part of new creators... but I don't think that's a bad thing.  I'd also like to see this for drinks, giving subtle variations between the initial pour/drink, body, and dregs, or multi-layer coctail type drinks.


I've always loved food in Armageddon, and most of my characters have been either rangers or scavengers for all the fun things they can gather up to cook, eat, and give to others, or been merchants who could afford to buy things to cook.  But I've learned to cook decently with every character I've played (except my first, who died in 5 days), and you don't have to be a crafter to learn to do it.  I enjoy rp'ing over cooking and eating, and if I have the means to have food (either coin or foraging) then I tend to eat every so often mixed in with what everelse I'm doing.  Which is kind of like my RL as well, I tend to snack on something every couple of hours.  Giving people presents of food is just as fun as annoying my fellow clanmates by pulling out a centipede during crafting and casually emoting about spitting out spare legs as I noisily munch its segmented shell, then ask if anyone wants a nice roasted sandhopper?  Or describing a pallid grub wriggling frantically trying to escape as I eat it.  Food is great for rp, wether you're being seductive, friendly or disgusting with it.

To answer the original questions though, I (as mentioned above) tend to eat a little frequently, instead of getting all the way to very hungry or starving.  Its led people to say that I'm always eating, but at the same time doing this means I don't spam them either.   Do I ever spam eat?  Sometimes.  Especially if I've been rp'ing out a scene where it didn't seem right to eat, like if being questioned at length by a Templar, then I probably wouldn't start pulling things out of my pockets and munching away like I would when passing time with clanmates.  When I do spam eat, generally I'll step into another location alone though so I don't text-spam people, and I'll still emote something at the start at least.  I agree with others here that its not necessarily ooc to spam-eat..   I have eaten entire sandwiches, chicken breasts, bowls of spaghetti, etc. in less than a minute in RL when in a hurry or very hungry.  I don't think its good to do all the time, but not a problem on occasion.  Though, there are some commands I'd like to see added dealing with eat that would make things better.

The eat-all command for instance, I don't think is unreasonable if used with proper rp.  For example:
sit (Stretching out on the sand as she watches the dancers);eatall (laying it upon the ground before her) melon [savoring the moist pulp and smiling];change ldesc lounges upon the sand, eating a melon.
Then the melon is completely consumed already, dealing with any pressing hunger-code at the time, and without spamming the gathering where I'm watching dancing goin on.  I can still pose now and then for rp sake, eating the melon, without inflicting a series of eight 'X takes a bite of her fir, ripe purple melon' on the room which is probably already spammy from more meaningful RP.  I know I get overwhelmed in hrpts where so much unimportant code output is going on that I can't see the important parts. 

So I think an eatall command would help, or a hidden-eat command (heat) so one could take a bite with the usual code-generation, and then finish it off with hidden eating commands to not spam the room, and pose at leisure enjoying and finishing the food.  It would also be good in other situations, ducking into the shadows of your cloak to eat that tandu sausage you just swiped.  If someone was watching you then they'd see it, but otherwise people would just see your emotes of crouching back into a crevice and pulling your cloak around you.  Good for stealthy types.  I just don't think its necessary for every single bite of eating to be echoed to the world.  When I'm eating with a bunch of people in RL I don't notice every bite that every person takes..  I'll notice one person eating.. whatever,  a few moments later someone else in the group taking a drink.  I don't focus on it all, and I'd like to see that in Arm so the code didn't get in the way of the rp. 

Mind you, I don't want to lose the code elements - if we didn't get hungry and thirsty and sick and covered in dust or stench, then it just wouldn't be Arm.