A tregil smirks as you miss an uppercut

[Qzzrbl]

I don't  get where people have all this talk about them doing crazy damage. They've never seemed to me to do much damage at all.

I personally have experienced 1-6 damage from wrist razors. There are lots of factors that determine how much damage goes out.

That doesn't seem excessive to me. Granted a stronger person using them is likely going to hit for more so... *shrugs*

It doesn't seem excessive until you realize that despite your mastered shield and parry skills, you're still getting 1-6 damage every couple of rounds even though your opponent can't manage to hit you with their weapon.

Shit adds up, yo.

[Majikal]

The day or two days prior to charge being revamped, the living reason for it attacked my pc. I was sitting and unarmed wearing two wrist razors. I was run down from 130hp to 0 with charge attacks alone while the attacker never landed a weapon attack on me. All my punches bounced off their armor. But from where I sat, unarmed despite my bracers. I brought a dwarf down to poor health. Shit adds up yo. Had I had 10-15 more seconds of shliffing actions, this would be in the brag thread.

[jhunter]

All I have to say is your experiences with them are complete opposites of my experiences with them. They never seem to do much damage and I never seem to be hit by someone with them that can't at least hit me with a weapon otherwise. If they can't hit me with a weapon, they don't ever land those item attacks either. *shrug*

[MeTekillot]

I think you parry or block an attack from someone when the attack would have otherwise hit you. The thing about the razors and claws is even if someone could normally block or parry your attacks, the razors and claws function pretty much on attack/defence, so they ignore parry and block. That's what I gather from this, anyway.

[jhunter]

So basically what you're saying is that their pcs were getting hit by them because the parry and block skills don't come into play vs those items and their pc's base defense sucked?

[hyzhenhok]

So basically what you're saying is that their pcs were getting hit by them because the parry and block skills don't come into play vs those items and their pc's base defense sucked?

They're saying in long fights (because either both combatants have high defense, or both have low offense, or whatever), being seldom hit by the bracers for a tiny bit of damage can still add up.

[jhunter]

So they pretty much want parry and block to work against those items (or have them removed completely) so that their pc's weakness can't be exploited by them?

[hyzhenhok]

So they pretty much want parry and block to work against those items (or have them removed completely) so that their pc's weakness can't be exploited by them?

It's not a weakness. It's that your opponent has a silly item that bypasses the combat code, while you do not.

This wouldn't be an issue if they were more realistic (only useful in close combat) or more readily available.

[jhunter]

No. It's a weakness. It doesn't bypass the code it bypasses specific skills. Your pc can still be trained better to deal with something like that.

[Qzzrbl]

No. It's a weakness. It doesn't bypass the code it bypasses specific skills. Your pc can still be trained better to deal with something like that.

Bypassing specific skills that are specifically coded specifically for combat....

And since there's no "dodge wrist razor" skill, I doubt anyone can be trained to deal with them.

[jhunter]

You have a base offense and a base defense that can be trained. If you guys want parry and block to work with them then they'd -never- hit unless you exceptionally outclass them because they only get your base offense. So really, what would need to be done to make it functional and fix your complaint (which like I said, is something that can currently be dealt with) Make them get a check vs parry and block skills and -also- make them go off your weapon skill like any other weapon.

[Qzzrbl]

So really, what would need to be done to make it functional and fix your complaint (which like I said, is something that can currently be dealt with) Make them get a check vs parry and block skills and -also- make them go off your weapon skill like any other weapon.

I could dig it.

[Lizzie]

There are lots of possible ways to fix the issue. But if you want to obey the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) rule, there are a few options:

1. Remove the items entirely from the game.
2. Remove the effects of the items, from the coded damage to the coded echoes. Nerf them, in other words.
3. Remove the OOC Staff-imposed rarety and expense, make them *all* craftable by their respective clans, and allow PCs to sell and profit or not, based on their ability to market the item through roleplay.
4. Combine #2 and #3 in such a way that the odds of a successful *shlif* are reduced, but not eliminated, DO eliminate the smirk echo, and eliminate the staff-imposed rarety, minimize the "house cost," and leave the top-value and craftability up to the players.

Any of the four options above would be easier to do, than determining how much bonus defense should get, vs. which item is being used (I mean what if they've got the claw gloves, one wrist razor from clan A, and a spiked bracer from clan B? Now you're dealing with the code having to do multiple calculations).

[Feco]

If spiked-whatevers they stay in game as they are, they should stay restricted and expensive.  It's an unfortunate OOC thing we'll have to deal with.

Only if they are nerfed in some way (made vanilla weapons, made vanilla armor, etc.) do I think it's a good idea to remove their restricted status.  They are a powerful tool, and they need to be controlled accordingly.  If everyone had access to them always... everyone would probably have them.  It would be silly.

So you all know, there is at least one sheath that is very very simple to craft.

[Majikal]

So you all know, there is at least one sheath that is very very simple to craft.

I took the time to highlight the problem here for you. You're welcome.

[jhunter]

I think the sheath thing is a more glaring problem myself and deserves some time and effort over other's gripes about something they just personally dislike. Sheaths and scabbards should be common, maybe not the "fancy" ones but the majority of pcs that carry bladed weapons should have them housed properly. It's even more crucial considering the materials bladed weapons are made out of. At least simple sheaths and scabbards should be readily available anywhere that bladed weapons are sold.

[Marshmellow]

You all know that the 'extra attack' combat items ARE restricted, right?

[Riev]

My suggestion, if the idea is to keep these things restricted due to an OOC "coolness" factor, is to give them an IC coolness factor. Get a list of -all- combat bracers/gloves, and sheaths. Remove them, and add in Craftable ones that are very high quality. No more "This one has little spikes of numut in it so it does the same thing." Make it so if you DO have these items, you paid a lot because they are, indeed, fancy and expensive to make. Not because Salarr won't virtually release the information on how to angle the spikes to be effective.

So, in the end, a pair of [SDESC REMOVED] gloves would have tortoiseshell buttons, soaked in the blood of an elven virgin for suppleness, and twice blessed by a Templar for good luck. Then you can justify "We only have access to a couple of these a year, and they are expensive."

[Lizzie]

You all know that the 'extra attack' combat items ARE restricted, right?

That's the point of the thread. To complain about their existence, BECAUSE they are restricted even though according to their mdesc, they should be VERY common, and VERY easy to make. The restriction is an OOC device, not an IC one. Also, the sheath items don't have *any* attack, let alone an extra one, and yet they have the same restrictions as the extra attack items.

[Lizzie]

My suggestion, if the idea is to keep these things restricted due to an OOC "coolness" factor, is to give them an IC coolness factor. Get a list of -all- combat bracers/gloves, and sheaths. Remove them, and add in Craftable ones that are very high quality. No more "This one has little spikes of numut in it so it does the same thing." Make it so if you DO have these items, you paid a lot because they are, indeed, fancy and expensive to make. Not because Salarr won't virtually release the information on how to angle the spikes to be effective.

So, in the end, a pair of [SDESC REMOVED] gloves would have tortoiseshell buttons, soaked in the blood of an elven virgin for suppleness, and twice blessed by a Templar for good luck. Then you can justify "We only have access to a couple of these a year, and they are expensive."

Exactly. If there's no *believable* reason why Kurac can't make enough spiked gloves to accommodate their own Fist crew in the same game-month, then they should change the gloves so that it -does- make IC sense. And if they can't change the gloves, then they should just get rid of them. They're not THAT cool and people CAN use them to injure/kill characters even if they have zero coded combat skill and their victim has uber coded defenses.

[jhunter]

You all know that the 'extra attack' combat items ARE restricted, right?

Yeah. I do.

[jhunter]

My suggestion, if the idea is to keep these things restricted due to an OOC "coolness" factor, is to give them an IC coolness factor. Get a list of -all- combat bracers/gloves, and sheaths. Remove them, and add in Craftable ones that are very high quality. No more "This one has little spikes of numut in it so it does the same thing." Make it so if you DO have these items, you paid a lot because they are, indeed, fancy and expensive to make. Not because Salarr won't virtually release the information on how to angle the spikes to be effective.

So, in the end, a pair of [SDESC REMOVED] gloves would have tortoiseshell buttons, soaked in the blood of an elven virgin for suppleness, and twice blessed by a Templar for good luck. Then you can justify "We only have access to a couple of these a year, and they are expensive."

Exactly. If there's no *believable* reason why Kurac can't make enough spiked gloves to accommodate their own Fist crew in the same game-month, then they should change the gloves so that it -does- make IC sense. And if they can't change the gloves, then they should just get rid of them. They're not THAT cool and people CAN use them to injure/kill characters even if they have zero coded combat skill and their victim has uber coded defenses.

This part is 100% untrue.

[Marshmellow]

I think there is something to be said about OOCly restricting them, though, because of the fact that we'd otherwise have every even slightly-combat-oriented character in game wearing them.  I think making them of something super-expensive just to justify the OOC restrictions ICly is a little silly, though.  They shouldn't be made of extremely precious materials, but then again they shouldn't be made of something so common that they can be mass-produced.  I think justifying them as extremely difficult to make and having them clan-only is sufficient, or should we completely do away with the clan-specific recipes?  If Salarr doesn't teach anyone how to make them, just like any other clan-specific, nobody should be able to make them except Salarr.  I'd be fine with them being craftable by PCs, so long as it is a difficult procedure, like it has to be built in stages (craft a+b>c, craft d+e>f, craft c+f>g) and consumes materials like mad (especially on a fail), and have it made from materials that aren't common while not being super-rare/expensive.

Edit: After going back to get more caught up, jhunter's last post is correct.  Combat skill of some sort IS involved in the use of 'extra attack' items.

[Chettaman]

I think there should be a command for slashing someone across the face. And it should work a lot like kick. Or flipping weapons.

>use weapon - "you flip your weapon around bringing up the bladed end/ bringing up the haft." - delay
>kick - "you kick what's his face with a brutal side-kick." - delay
>use bracers - "You swipe your bracers across his face" - delay

And when you do use them, and miss. You should be left off balance or your opponent has a free shot you.

[SMuz]

I think there should be a command for slashing someone across the face. And it should work a lot like kick. Or flipping weapons.

>use weapon - "you flip your weapon around bringing up the bladed end/ bringing up the haft." - delay
>kick - "you kick what's his face with a brutal side-kick." - delay
>use bracers - "You swipe your bracers across his face" - delay

And when you do use them, and miss. You should be left off balance or your opponent has a free shot you.

I'm with this. I still think that "kick" should just be "extra attack". This would make the 'kick' skill more interesting.