I just don't buy it...

[Is Friday]

That hasn't been my experience with what it takes to piss off Templars.

Go play a different game where everybody is nice to you or only mean for good reason.

[Qzzrbl]

Code Select Expand

emote bows before ~templar

^ That right there..... THAT RIGHT THERE, will save your ass.

If you've done nothing wrong, nothing to instigate templar or law, etc., etc., etc., simply bowing to a templar when they walk in the room is pretty much all you need to do.

It's no secret.

It has nothing to with self-respect, more self-preservation than anything else.

Hell, this isn't even an OOC mindset-- damn near everyone knows this IG, including PCs/NPCs/VNPCs, just bow, show respect, and you won't wind up getting killed.

If your character is -so- goddamn stubborn that he won't even pretend to show respect to a templar-- then you're doing something wrong. If you keep making characters with the mindset of, "I'd rather die than show respect to these pigs.", then your character will likely die if confronted with one of those "pigs".

Templars do not fuck around with stuff like that, because templars-- hell, Nobility as a whole are all a bunch of megalomaniacs who were taught from birth that they are better than all the other lowly commoner filth, and that they have the authority to murder, torture, and/or maim any lowly commoner filth that doesn't show proper respects with no consequences to themselves whatsoever.

::Edited to add::

And come on guys.... There's no need to try to chase this fellow off-- it just looks like there are a few bits and pieces about the game he doesn't understand fully.

[quickslash]

I did bow.

[Is Friday]

It doesn't matter if you did bow or did not bow. A Templar can and will do what they want, as will nobility, as will skilled (or unskilled) thieves/raiders/burglars/magickers. Wrap your noodle around that.

[quickslash]

Fun game.

[Is Friday]

Fun game.

By the looks of things, you're getting much more fun on the GDB. So keep playing, and play it hard attention whore.

[Marauder Moe]

I think he gets it.  He just doesn't like it.  I'm not really sure that's something anyone can help him with.

[Drayab]

I might gently suggest playing a tribal.

http://www.armageddon.org/ic/tribal.php

Don't know which ones are hopping right now, but you can send in a question to find out.

You might make a good raider.

Avoid the big cities if templars are too foreign to your mindset. The desert is more like the wild west, where a cowboy can roam free (until an injun puts an arrow through him).

[Cutthroat]

That hasn't been my experience with what it takes to piss off Templars.

As to the last, they should go torture some vNPCs or players who are asking for it.

Anyway, this line of debate can only lead to the dead end where we need IC details. I appreciate all of you who're trying to help. I do have a more clear image of what the pbase thinks of this which is what I wanted.

But if anyone was going to change my mind, it would've happened already.

What did you want to hear from us that would change your mind? The documentation is pretty clear on the matter of oppression in the city-states.

Fun game.

Yes, we think it is. If you don't like the game's setting, that's fine, but if you dislike it so much that you think it's not fun, then find something else that is fun - whether it's another place in the game, or another game.

[Feco]

This whole thread sounds pretty Tuluki to me.



That is all.

[Jdr]

It's a big subtle suggestion everyone should play in Tuluk. Damn their sneaky northern tricks!

[HavokBlue]

The wild west always needs more cowboys and injuns.

Just sayin.

[quickslash]

I wasn't taking a crack at ARM with that post, just IsFriday's pointless argument.

Also, Cutthroat- if you could point me in the direction of an active part of the gameworld more suited to my tastes, I'd be grateful.

My last PC was tribal which I loved in theory, but it's so far removed from the rest of Zalanthian culture and has so few PCs that I just couldn't make anything do.

Anyway, now that I'm being called an attention whore I think it's time for me to bow out of this thread. If anyone feels the need to PM me, go ahead.

[Nyr]

I reviewed the runlogs for your scenario.  If you'd like to have it explained, please put in a request.

Even if there were no reason and a templar was being mean to you for no reason (it was a perfectly good reason):  rules 2, 3, and 4.

2. Life is hard. There are no free lunches on Zalanthas. There aren't even
   free drinks of water. It is likely that your character will die, and if
   you are not clever your character will die very fast. Only (and we mean
   only) the very fittest of all live long enough to retire in comfort at
   the end of their careers.

3. Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely
   mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing,
   killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of.  The sole
   exception to this is termed 'the rule of consent', and is outlined
   both in "help consent" and in point 5, below.

4. Complaints of unfairness will not be given an audience. If you think
   your character's situation was unfair, too bad. Live with it or don't.
   See point 2 above.

[Marshmellow]

One thing I've always refused to do is ignore/avoid them. I just play my character. Every single time I've just acted like a self-respecting person. Only the very first time did I even deliberately escalate aggression.

I stopped reading.  This thread is exploding way too fast.  All I have to say is that your character(s) apparently have too little sense of self-preservation.  Templars have the ability to do things that will hurt you... a lot.  They can hurt everyone you know and/or love.  They can make that hurting last the rest of your life and they can make the duration of your life have whatever duration they see fit.  Your character should be shitting his/her pants.  You playing a self-respecting character that doesn't avoid pissing them off is the same as playing a character that does piss them off.

[Cutthroat]

Also, Cutthroat- if you could point me in the direction of an active part of the gameworld more suited to my tastes, I'd be grateful.

Since Nyr has said there was a perfectly good reason for your experience, I would advise that you take him up on his offer to explain the situation to you. It is the best way to learn from this situation.

[quickslash]

It really doesn't matter.

[Cutthroat]

It really doesn't matter.

A big part of learning about this game is being able to understand when mistakes are made, and having the grace to accept the chance to learn from them. I'm sorry that you feel it doesn't matter after starting a thread about it and getting considerable input, including from the staff. If you truly want to jump this hurdle, think about Nyr's offer for a while and figure out how it will work best for you as you continue to play the game.

[quickslash]

Let me try again.

I know everything Nyr could possibly say and none of it would change anything.

I'm not really interested in learning how to fit in with this IG society.

[Nyr]

If you simultaneously

• want to reject IC authority in the game by not kissing up to the powers-that-be because you think they are power-wielding 5th graders
• don't have the IC clout (physical, magickal, political, etc) to back your attitude
• don't like to be pissed on when you legitimately piss off people in charge
• don't care what anyone has to offer in terms of input and just want to hear yourself complain

then this game may not be for you.

[quickslash]

1. Can't deny that.
2. Sure.
3. That's the part I don't buy. If that's 'legitimately pissing off' the people in charge, this game really isn't for me.
4. No, I care. I wanted to hear that there's an active area of this game where I don't have to put up with this shit.

[Nyr]

3. That's the part I don't buy. If that's 'legitimately pissing off' the people in charge, this game really isn't for me.

You're pissing people off on the GDB using the same sort of attitude; why isn't it believable that it would work in-game?

4. No, I care. I wanted to hear that there's an active area of this game where I don't have to put up with this shit.

There is nowhere in-game where copping an attitude to people in charge will not have comeuppance forced upon you at some point.

[quickslash]

Since this is being pulled out of me one sentence at a time and I'm going to keep responding to direct questions/insinuations anyway, here's an exact outline of what I'm bitching about. If you don't care, don't read it.

My main point was that people wouldn't put up with this. Apparently that's already been recognized ICly via the founding of Red Storm and for some reason I'll never understand players didn't take advantage of it. ARM is structured believably, but apparently doesn't attract people like me often enough to fill out the areas of the game I can tolerate playing in. I like freedom, and to play a character who's judged on his own merits and treated with aloof respect until he proves that he deserves more or less than that. I also like to be able to creatively explore the boundaries of a system that breeds any number of different personalities. In Allanak and Tuluk only a very few specific types of people can really thrive. I've gotten a similar sense from pretty much every well-established PC. What that sense is is hard to explain, but aside from their individual quirks each of these characters really does seem to be almost exactly the same. That's not on the players, but on their choice of starting location. What works in Nak works in Nak. I just don't like Nak.

I admit I started this thread mostly out of a desire to vent, but if you lose a handful of carefully crafted characters similarly see if you don't do something rash. Yes, I could've prevented. But not while simultaneously playing a character I care about.

[Barzalene]

They would, because if they don't respect and submit to the will of the God King's servants, there is no reason why the God King will protect them. The walls will crumble, the water will not flow, the sky will erupt and everyone will die.

[Ocotillo]

I'm 90% sure I've seen at least one of your characters in play. You're not that far from being fine - you just need to learn to be more subversive and less obtrusive in your discontent.

That said, I'd recommend playing an indie ranger, someone in Red Storm, a desert elf, or a rogue magicker.