Is the death beep IC or OOC?

[Drayab]

Here is a thread to discuss whether the beep you get when something dies is IC or OOC. It is a silly argument that doesn't really matter, but if you like to argue about such things, here's your chance.

I am going to argue that it is IC. I posit that since the beep informs the character (or the character through the player) to take action, that it counts as a method for your character to make sense of the world. You might say that the beep is a 'sense of being in the presence of death.'

For example, you are in a thick battle with lots of screen scroll. It's hard to keep up with what's going on, so when the beeps come, it informs you as a player to take action in the form of your character looking around to see who died. If this is justified (and I think it is), then you either accept that it is okay to take IC action based on OOC information, or you can be a fruit and imagine that the death beep is actually IC, thus sidestepping that particular moral hazard.

[maxid]

It's OOC, close thread.

[Drayab]

That's harsh, man. I probably should have put it in roleplaying or world discussion, though. I know there is at least one other person that would like to argue about this, else I wouldn't have made the thread.

[Spice Spice Baby]

When the beep sounds, there's also an accompanying echo in the game.

The echo is the IC part. The beep is not.

[Drayab]

That's a perfectly valid point of view, but why is it not equally valid that they are both IC?

[HavokBlue]

I don't know what the echo is you're referring to but I can't possibly see how you'd interpret a completely, utterly OOC function created for OOC purposes as something to be used IC.

[maxid]

I don't know what the echo is you're referring to but I can't possibly see how you'd interpret a completely, utterly OOC function created for OOC purposes as something to be used IC.

He's attempting to win an argument from another thread.

[Drayab]

I think what SSB means is that when somebody dies, you also get an echo that they crumpled to the ground, cried out in pain, and sprayed blood on you.

The way you interpret as being IC is by noticing the way that it can influence IC actions. If the code supports something that directly influences the character, then it counts as a real part of the world.

I'm not arguing that the beep you get from the beep command is IC; I am arguing for ginka's death beep.

Also, I care about winning as much as maxid cares about not shitting on threads he doesn't like.

[HavokBlue]

Somebody falling to the ground, crying out in pain, or spraying blood on you is IC.

Your computer beeping is not.

[Drayab]

I think you're hung up on the medium. It doesn't matter if you learn via text or audio, the fact of the matter is that it directly influences your character. The blood spray makes your character clean their clothes later; the death beep makes them scared for their allies.

[Malifaxis]

Eh.

No.

I'm not posting.

It's not worth it in any way.

[Qzzrbl]

I think you're hung up on the medium. It doesn't matter if you learn via text or audio, the fact of the matter is that it directly influences your character. The blood spray makes your character clean their clothes later; the death beep makes them scared for their allies.

Not necessarily.... The death beep makes you, the player scared for their allies.

The "so and so crumples to the ground" that echoes when another character dies makes your character scared for their allies.

Your character doesn't hear the beep-- the character's player does.

[Gunnerblaster]

The Beep is completely OOC.

If someone reacts ICly because someone Beep's them, such as they randomly 'flee self', then they are in the fault.

[Synthesis]

The beep is OOC.

The reason it's bad form to "flee self" when someone hidden beeps you, is that a) you, the player, know (if you read the helpfile for flee) that flee breaks follow and b) you, the player, know that SOMEONE is in the room and PROBABLY they are following you.  Your character doesn't know any of this.  Thus, when you "flee self" after they thoughtfully beeped you to make sure they weren't about to backstab the shit out of a linkdead noob, you're fucking cheating.

Now, if you were already set to running, and you were just sitting idle for a minute (because you thought you were hidden) while you went to take a massive dump, feel free to carry on running.  However, if you don't drop some kind of emote about it before you take off -and- allow that hidden someone to respond, chances are they will sneak up on you again, and next time the beep really will be your character dying.

[Drayab]

Well, I'm not saying the character actually hears it. It is more subtle than that, which is why I described it is 'a sense of being in the presence of death.'

It's just another part of the game that informs the player about the world that the character lives in.

While I do appreciate the separation between character and player, I think you will agree that the tinge of fear you feel for your character's well being when a big nasty walks up, and so you quickly 'draw sword,' is very similar to the way you feel when the beep sounds and you quickly 'look' to check on your allies.

Yes, the crumpled to the ground echo serves the same purpose, but you might imagine that in the chaotic thick of combat (what players experience as extreme screen scroll), your character didn't notice when they ally collapsed, but they got a sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach, and so they quickly survey the battlefield to check on their allies.

Also, I'm not arguing that the beep command is IC; I am arguing for ginka's death beep.

[HavokBlue]

Same thing though. The beep is serving to alert you OOCly.

[Drayab]

Why should an audio cue be automatically dismissed as an inferior (or just OOC) way to inform the player about the character's world? Besides the obvious fact that MUDs are text based games, audio works just as well as text for showing the player how the world is for the character.

We have this little bit of audio in Armageddon. Do you think it should be removed? I don't think you do. Indeed, it is looked on fondly by quite a lot of players as a kind of 'ha ha - I got you' from ginka herself, but I don't think it has to be just that. What is the purpose of the death beep if not to inform the character via the player?

And, as I've repeated several times, it has a measurable affect on characters just as sure as poison and dangerous looking animals. Sure seems to operate on characters, real as real.

The beep command though: that's OOC as they come. Even I won't argue that one.

[Synthesis]

Keep beeping that chicken.

[Drayab]

I assume by 'beep' you mean 'beat,' and by 'chicken' you mean 'horse.'

[Synthesis]

In a loose sense, maybe.

[Spoon]

My client doesn't beep when people die.

[Drayab]

Well, thankfully you're not missing out on much. I can only think of the one example (massed combat) where it is actually useful, and even then it's already too late to help your pals. It is the sound of ginka harvesting souls, and the people of Zalanthas quake in their chalton hide boots.

[Synthesis]

My client doesn't beep when people die.

Control panel > Sound > Sounds > Default beep (for Windows Vista...similar for other versions as well, I presume).

[Gunnerblaster]

The beep is something cute a coder decided to put in - when something dies. I don't think it was ever meant to be anything else.

Personally, I could do without it. It doesn't make much of a difference to me.

[Spoon]

My client doesn't beep when people die.

Control panel > Sound > Sounds > Default beep (for Windows Vista...similar for other versions as well, I presume).

ssssh, I was winning the argument

[Marshmellow]

The beep is an alert to you the player to pay attention.  You pay attention to see the information your character should have.  If you look, you are using an information gathering command so that you can pay attention better.  If you simply flee, you're reacting ICly to the OOC clue to pay attention.  That's like jumping through the window when someone knocks on your door in real life.  You don't know the person knocking on the door is there to kill you, but you assumed.  It's ridiculous.

[Lizzie]

I don't hear any beep unless I'm wearing my headset. And since the beep is the only audible thing that occurs in Armageddon, I don't wear my headset when I'm arming. So - no beep for me. It's OOC.

[Reiteration]

The majority of corpses do NOT emit beeping noises when they die, the beep is OOC.

[Nyr]

beep

[Morgenes]

> flee self