guard sucks

[Titania]

When you are doing something with mixed clans this is stupid. Everyone blocks everyone. Then if you stop guarding to let people though, NPC or staff take advantage. frustrating. Could we have like temp clans rpt 1 2 3 and clan all the groups together temporarily or some other solution?

[Majikal]

Follow ftw?

[Sam]

Please clarify?

[Qzzrbl]

Follow ftw?

[Wolfsong]

IMO, I wouldn't mind if guard was expanded to work, like...

guard south
You begin guarding the south exit, allowing no one passage.

guard south "T'zai Byn"
You begin guarding the south exit, allowing only the T'zai Byn passage.

guard south "T'zai Byn" "House Salarr"
You begin guarding the south exit, allowing only the T'zai Byn and House Salarr passage.


The trick would be... should it require you to be a member of all the clans, or only know the proper name of the clan?

Either way, it'd be useful to prevent offending parties within a clan from circumventing the guard system because they share clanning.

[Majikal]

Either way, it'd be useful to prevent offending parties within a clan from circumventing the guard system because they share clanning.

If there is an issue going on within a clan, it is my practice to have the offending party (if sharing a clan) to remove his clan status with 'rebel' or have a ranked officer with the recruit flag to demote him from the clan before carrying on with the scene if things like this might become conflicting.

It's something that you should be sorting about with the characters involved before whatever might happen happens.

This is my understanding of what you're asking at least.

[MeTekillot]

Follow ftw?

Nope. Follow does nothing in these cases, unless it's an NPC guarding.

[Medivh]

IMO, I wouldn't mind if guard was expanded to work, like...

guard south
You begin guarding the south exit, allowing no one passage.

guard south "T'zai Byn"
You begin guarding the south exit, allowing only the T'zai Byn passage.

guard south "T'zai Byn" "House Salarr"
You begin guarding the south exit, allowing only the T'zai Byn and House Salarr passage.


The trick would be... should it require you to be a member of all the clans, or only know the proper name of the clan?

Either way, it'd be useful to prevent offending parties within a clan from circumventing the guard system because they share clanning.

I like.

NPCs already do this.
Could the guard code be tinkered with so that PCs have a "in clan" flag to check, when we use it?

Kind of make me think of the NPCs can do what PCs can't do topics a while back.

[Marshmellow]

NPCs already let you past when they're guarding an exit and you're in-clan.

[racurtne]

NPCs already let you past when they're guarding an exit and you're in-clan.

OP is talking about inter-clan cooperation. Where, though you are doing something together, if clan A is guarding something clan B can not pass, even though they would be allowed to do so ICly.

[Medivh]

NPCs already let you past when they're guarding an exit and you're in-clan.

OP is talking about inter-clan cooperation. Where, though you are doing something together, if clan A is guarding something clan B can not pass, even though they would be allowed to do so ICly.

Lord hard-nose and crew try to walk east, but it is guarded by razor-thin mcthief. So they all fail.
At the same time...
the burly-ugly guild-member man also walks east, and its allowed to continue because razor-thin mcthief is letting Guild members through.

the above example cannot happen at the moment, using the guard skill as a PC, Marshmellow.

It would be neat if you could add someone into a temp group.
Then you could guard an exit from everyone, except those group members.
Perhaps a group command that goes so far as to not allow you to attack grouped PCs.

[Rotten]

Better idea is to put one or two people in charge of guarding an objective and allowing the right people in and out.

[Marshmellow]

Lord Hardnose shouldn't be walking into somewhere guarded by a Guilder McThief without a Guild escort, at which point everyone gets through.

Next.

[Wolfsong]

Lord Hardnose shouldn't be walking into somewhere guarded by a Guilder McThief without a Guild escort, at which point everyone gets through.

Next.

Still doesn't really fix the problem of large RPTs in which two or more clans are cooperating. The example given was just that, an example, and probably a poor one on their part for confusing people as to what the real complaint here is. Two clans working in tandem (as two clans often do) should be able to ...work in tandem... without being a part of the same clan - be it a temporary one or not.

[Nyr]

The guard code has been around for years, as have major inter-clan RPTs; I'm sure that this has been dealt with a time or two by existing code.

If there are going to be "guard" issues, they should be addressed in advance by the PC leaders of the situation in question.  They can alleviate any problems that might crop up til the event is over.  Abuse of the code on either side will be dealt with by staff.

[Marshmellow]

The only time there should be an issue is if there is inter-clan cooperation AND members of two clans are guarding the same exit.  Why not have Byn guard the West and Borsail guard the North while AOD takes the East?

As Nyr said, the guard code is the same as it has been for over a decade.  I've NEVER had a problem that wasn't solved by planning ahead and drilling people on H2P.

[Medivh]

The only time there should be an issue is if there is inter-clan cooperation AND members of two clans are guarding the same exit.  Why not have Byn guard the West and Borsail guard the North while AOD takes the East?

It doesn't matter if more then one clan guards an exit, at the moment.
It doesn't matter who is guarding an exit. They will block -everyone-. (If code permits.)
The idea was to allow guard to let certain people through. (By clan flags.)

As Nyr said, the guard code is the same as it has been for over a decade.  I've NEVER had a problem that wasn't solved by planning ahead and drilling people on H2P.

You misread Nyr's post. Also, the guard code has been updated before, if I remember right.
While some RPT's guard issues can be addressed by PC leaders... not all can be addressed in advance. Nor can they all be planned for.
It has worked for a very long time, this is true, but it could work better.

Lastly, not all issues with guard come up in large groups of two or more clans.
Certainly some raider attempts have failed due to this...

Fang A guards north.
Fang B guards south, and starts to talk to Target C.
Target C hides and sneaks past Raider A.
Fang A is a blind, deaf warrior. So Target C gets past.
Fang B, however, is a Ranger. Who tries to follow Target C as he sneaks off.
Fang A then blocks his good buddy Fang B from moving north.
Target C now has enough time to get away.

With an update to the guard code, one that allows you to auto-fail your guard checks vs specified clans, this wouldn't happen.

Oh, following others, whom NPC guards let pass, into compounds and such is fine. I am not asking to change that.

Lord Hardnose shouldn't be walking into somewhere guarded by a Guilder McThief without a Guild escort, at which point everyone gets through.

Next.

BTW, in case you didn't understand Marshmellow, that example was meant to explain a situation that cannot happen currently.
Please take note however, it was not meant to be an example that would ever happen in game. (Although it should be -able- to.)
With a character swap, the same situation -could- happen in game, but is not -able- to.

[Marshmellow]

(sigh)  Just make sure the person leading is clanned the same as the NPC!  It's that easy!

[Medivh]

(sigh)  Just make sure the person leading is clanned the same as the NPC!  It's that easy!

That works for a lot of things (such as the OP's issue in most cases), but my idea is slightly derailed from a fix to the OP's issue.

I am basically asking for PCs to do what NPCs can do.

[Bluefae]

     I'd appreciate a feature such as Medivh illustrates.  Granted, the good majority of the time, there are perfectly good work-arounds . . . but they're just that, work-arounds.  Reminds me of how sparring was ended before the "disengage" command:  sure, "flee" worked just fine in most (but not all) cases, but there could be situations where it was a tad jarring.

[MarshallDFX]

Blocking the way of Templars makes me feel tough.   For a second.

[Goldberry]

Blocking the way of Templars makes me feel tough.   For a second.

^

[Titania]

The guard code has been around for years, as have major inter-clan RPTs; I'm sure that this has been dealt with a time or two by existing code.

If there are going to be "guard" issues, they should be addressed in advance by the PC leaders of the situation in question.  They can alleviate any problems that might crop up til the event is over.  Abuse of

the code on either side will be dealt with by staff.

My issue is due to events someone has to guard a direction. There are several different groups who need to go said direction. While pc guard stops guarding to let ppl who icly need to get through through, npc or staff controlled npc runs through before you can reguard. To me thats just lame is why I suggested a solution. Saying the code has been around for a long time is a pretty lame response as well.

[Talia]

I am basically asking for PCs to do what NPCs can do.

This is already the case. If A and B are of the same clan, then A will let B through an exit that A is guarding. The code is exactly the same for PCs as it is for NPCs.

[MeTekillot]

A and B aren't in the same clan, Talia. A is in one clan, B is in another. They're working together. B can follow A past an NPC, but not a PC.

[Marshmellow]

So there's only two people?  Why not have A, B, C & D since this is apparently some multi-organization RPT.  Let's say that A & B are clan Y and C & D are clan Z.  No matter who is guarding the direction, there is another person of the same clan that can lead while the others follow and they'll get past the guarder.

[Marauder Moe]

Meh.

Code Select Expand

>shout GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY!

Problem solved.

[X-D]

No they will not.

The poster is saying, and correctly, that if I belong to the byn, and I have a PC following me who is NOT byn but is some other clan, I can walk right past the byn NPC guards with them in tow.

But that is because of the script or flag being on the NPC, likely the guardian flag, which is not the same as the skill.

If I take a PC of my clan, or a NPC and have them guard east, then either of them will act the same and allow me through but not somebody from outside the clan even if they are following me.

The OP wants the same ability for PC and NPC guard skill as the NPCs with the guardian flag have.

I like the idea, it could be done easily and with a simple toggle so you could switch between current guard mode and a mode that would allow people through and whoever is following them no matter what clan they belong to.

Though I would add a 3rd mode, call it guard all, in which you will block anybody including clan members...something that would have been very useful hundreds of times over in my years of play.

[Marshmellow]

Ah, never really encountered that one.  Strange.  I always thought PCs would allow all that are following as well.

...and Moe, I understand what they're saying now.  Doing that mean dropping guard on the exit to allow ANYONE through, not just those they want to let through.  They want to be able to prevent those that they want to keep while allowing everyone through.  It sounded like someone wanted some complicated 'temporary clan' sort of thing to allow people through, and I think that is unnecessary, but allowing allow those following through would work for me.

[Synthesis]

We wouldn't have this problem if everyone was an assassin.

I say remove all guilds except assassin, and all subguilds except hunter and rebel--problem solved.  No one will ever be able to successfully guard an exit against a PC ever again, as long as you sneak 24/7.

[Marshmellow]

Only because not one character would have the guard skill, not because of sneak.  Stealth only gets past guard because people they don't perceive you, not because stealth counters guard.  Perception skills counter stealth skills.

[Synthesis]

Only because not one character would have the guard skill, not because of sneak.  Stealth only gets past guard because people they don't perceive you, not because stealth counters guard.  Perception skills counter stealth skills.

[X-D]

A ranger with the guard skill is an exceptional guard even against assassins is what Marsh is saying, I've blocked many a shadow with mine.

IE, stealth does nothing against guard only the perception of the guards.

[racurtne]

I believe the solution is to have one clan leader temporarily clan all participants. It may take a couple of minutes, but it solves problems.

[Sephiroto]

You can also run.  The game even tells you this when you fail getting past a guard.  It might look silly, but if you have RP justification, this is a temporary work-around.