quit with penaltyin non-quittable rooms, quitout on very long idleness/link-dead

[lepxii]

  (Yes I know, this is a recurring discussion).

 I for one, would love if it were possible to:
quit wait
<30 minute delay>, periodic (say, every 5 minutes) print to room / PCs in contact *sdesc will quit out in X minutes*. PC's mdesc could be changed to reflect his state.
<PC logged out, regardless of location/ state, if player doesn't enter commands from a list>

Should the PC perform any of a list of commands (movement, combat, magick / wicked psi) - the logout timer is reset. Heck - you could even limit all commands entirely. List of commands could perhaps be based on the existing "you're too excited" flag in the code.

There would be ample time to kill / torture / maim / whatever said PC if the player were trying abuse quit.

And, if a PC were idle/link-dead for say 1 hour, that the same code/script would be enacted (logging out said PC in half an hour).

Rangers wouldn't be nerffed by this, waiting 30 minutes in an idle in-game state is fairly severe. And this would apply to (almost) any room (wilderness or not), rangers get stuck in the non-wilderness too.

You won't have the collection of PCs link-dead in the city. If you are stuck somewhere non-quitable (happens!) and have to log out, you will be able to - with an appropriate penalty (the chance of being randomly killed by a kryl / spider / mek / PC / evil-magicker during the logout timer, as opposed to until the next reboot).

Without a very clean network connection (and an interruption free life while logged in) - it is hard to play long-lived PCs in Armageddon. This is an OOC concern, and shouldn't be reflected back to IC. There is a whole is he linked-dead etiquette in Armageddon regarding nastiness/assassination/stealing/arresting going on, which again is very much an OOC concern; 98% of players would say that killing your obviously linked-dead nemesis is poor form.

(disclaimer: I wasn't logged in during the recent network havoc, nor have I had any PC killed while link-dead recently, which will surely change since I've opened my mouth).

[Sajoi]

Oooh yeah I'm hunting you down now. Be wary of the tregils of doom! (just kidding, it's the vestrics of doom)

[perfecto]

my argument against it would be,

That you have no idea what might have happened to you in that laps of time. "if you survive it at all"

[Drayab]

I would like it, but not as a specific command. Maybe a five minute and thirty second warning to the player, but definitely none to the room. Everybody already knows when somebody's gone idle. Just auto-logout if you've been idle for an hour. What's the argument against this? An hour is plenty of time for a PC to kill you for pulling a dick move if you're trying to abuse it to escape a situation. Besides, experience shows the best way to get out of being mercilessly struck down (once they've got you in checkmate) is to play along with liberal usage of groveling, sniveling, and self flagellation.

Usually, idleness happens when real life happens. Real life, unfortunately, happens.

[lepxii]

Well, if you used it on purpose (as opposed to link-dead people being logged out), you would presumably stay logged in, or at least keep your mud-client up with a log. Sometimes you know you've got to go in X time, or handle something IRL, you might still be able to react to something extraordinary in that half hour (but not actually play to the hilt).

As it is, in the same situation, the solution is to drop link. In which case, you might not know what happened for a RL day+. I think this limits the uncertainty.

I doubt this would be used much more than the current amount of link-dead events + staff wishes to help "stuck" players out (which to my experience are handled promptly and efficiently, if someone is around). However, for those cases in which it would be used, it would result in a far more uniform response (staff aren't always around to help, link-deaders might not be able to ask for help).

I recall seeing a few posts in "ask the staff" requesting logouts recently (recent network havoc, and the previous havoc with the route to ginka). I think we've evolved.

What I'm suggesting isn't perfect, but it is better than the current situation, definitely in relation to your argument.

Regarding the echo to the room - maybe not an echo, but some change to the mdesc. This allows people in the room to react against people idle-quitting out of them (in the case someone actually tried to abuse this in conjunction with player etiquette).

[Nyr]

I don't think the current system is going to change at this point.

If you feel that you are going to be severely impacted by your internet connection or real life on a regular basis during your allotted Armageddon time, you should tailor your roles to that.  If you want to play in the wilderness and end up out there on a regular basis, play a ranger (you can quit anywhere).  If you want to play in the cities, know where the quit locations are.  The more socially-based your character, the better (less likely that you'll end up too far from a quit room).  If you know you have to leave in X time, then don't do stuff that will take longer than that. 

In the case of a spotty internet connection, it would be impossible to predict when it will decide to asplode.  Your solution would not address that.  In the case of the network to ginka deciding to go on the fritz, your solution would not address that, either.  The posts in "Ask the Staff" couldn't have been helped.  No one could get to ginka because the network was down.

One solution that exists presently is to wish up if you need to quit out.  Real life does happen, as do emergencies.  Most of the time, most people can probably fire off a quick wish or an ooc that RL struck and they have to go NOW and then drop link if necessary.  If your internet connection sucks and is spotty, it's probably better to get that fixed.

[lepxii]

Nyr, I recognize that this won't probably change in arm.1 (seeing as this feature has been a fixture of the game for at least 15 years, and 2.arm is coming along (sometime)), and obviously there are ways around it (part of them, involve inserting OOC into IC - I for instance don't go wilderness hopping if there is a remote chance I might have to drop out. Ignore PCs that are obviously link-dead (for days)). In an optimal MUD world, what do you think is a *good* solution (in 2.arm, in 1.arm in five years, whatever)?

(the one upside to the current situation is that it definitely reinforces the whole *crackageddon* experience)

[Nyr]

From Morgenes here on the old blog:  http://www.zalanthas.org/blogs/brideofson/archives/001407.html

Link-dead Timeout [engine default 30 minutes]

If you're link-dead for more than the specified time, you are automatically extracted from the game.

Note that if we chose to use the link-dead timeout, it will allow a ranger-quit for non-rangers with the cost of having to leave yourself exposed for the delay specified.

In closing, please remember that this is just what the engine currently supports, more features could be added, and some, if not all of these might not be used at all.

Posted by Morgenes at January 4, 2008 12:00 PM

[lepxii]

Shucks, seems like I've had a case of cryptomnesia, even went for the same constant.

(my 2 cents on the timer, is that I'd go for idle links as opposed to link-dead)