Death Experiences - Lack of ANY Roleplay?

[Sokotra]

I would have to agree, because I play for the action.  I mostly just play combatants and it happens to me and I've probably done it to others in the past.  I'm just saying "try" to find an alternative if you can.  If nothing else, just leave your mercy on and RP like your character thought the person was dead.  There's no reason you can't do that... or something.. anything other than insta-kill.  That's lame.  But yeah, it happens.

[X-D]

For the record, I like mercy on, sadly mercy is rather weak.

For instance, with backstab, if the backstab might actually kill the target, mercy will stop even the attempt, It also does not work for magick, archery, throw.

Oh, and No, I'm not mad.

[brytta.leofa]

It's not bad roleplay to kill someone quick if you need to.  Especially if they're suspected to be dangerous.

It's great roleplay to add as much color to your character's actions as you can.

It's bad roleplay, IMO, to bump another person's character out of the story on a flimsy excuse.  Bad roleplay...but, within reason, allowed, and not really fodder for a Player Complaint.

[Malifaxis]

I really want to kick many posting here in the head.

[misogynistic post edited by Nyr.  Use your big kid words, please.]

*STAMP OF FUCKING APPROVAL*

[spicemustflow]

I really want to kick many posting here in the head.

[misogynistic post edited by Nyr.  Use your big kid words, please.]

I agree with this.

*provided the killing is justified.

[jhunter]

I really want to kick many posting here in the head.

[misogynistic post edited by Nyr.  Use your big kid words, please.]

I agree with this.

*provided the killing is justified.

I agree as well, with the exception of the "provided the killing is justified" disclaimer. In real life people die or are killed unjustly so there's nothing unrealistic or "poor rp" about that. In fact, if the killing was justified, it likely adds less to a dramatic story than it would if they were killed unjustly. I would say that a justified death probably spawns off less plotlines due to the character's demise, etc. It's not that harsh if the only people who are killed were the ones who actually deserved it.
Just because you were only a party to the final result of a string of rp and weren't party to the rp leading up to that point, it doesn't mean that there was no rp involved. Personally, this situation sound to me like one of the 'rinthi npcs that you may have mistaken for a pc. *shrug*

[hyzhenhok]

From the first helpfile you should read:

It is likely that your character will die, and if you are not clever your character will die very fast.

Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of.

Complaints of unfairness will not be given an audience. If you think your character's situation was unfair, too bad. Live with it or don't.

[Jingo]

Guess I'll just grind skills as fast as a I can and retire pcs with low stats. 'Cause I know someone's gonna just walk in and gank me first chance they get.

Really glad the pros of armageddon cleared that up for me.

[jhunter]

Guess I'll just grind skills as fast as a I can and retire pcs with low stats. 'Cause I know someone's gonna just walk in and gank me first chance they get.

Really glad the pros of armageddon cleared that up for me.

Yeah, that's what people were saying. 

[Nahara]

From the first helpfile you should read:

It is likely that your character will die, and if you are not clever your character will die very fast.

Sometimes people are nasty. There are no rules against being extremely mean to others that your character may meet, be it cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise making a fool out of.

Complaints of unfairness will not be given an audience. If you think your character's situation was unfair, too bad. Live with it or don't.

The implications of that sentence are ominous. I would like to encourage everyone, please live with it rather than the alternative.

[Jingo]

Guess I'll just grind skills as fast as a I can and retire pcs with low stats. 'Cause I know someone's gonna just walk in and gank me first chance they get.

Really glad the pros of armageddon cleared that up for me.

Yeah, that's what people were saying.  

[/sarc] for sure becuase I think it's mostly just gdb grandstanding

But if I thought it was for real, then it's my only recourse.

[a strange shadow]

Once upon a time, a character of mine wanted to kill someone who was much more badass than they were, for reasons personal and professional.

She recruited the help of one other PC to help trick the mark into trusting my character.

She then had a nice little chat, one on one with that character (no NPCs, no nothing; I wanted to give him a fair shake, should he potentially overcome my character's treachery), and then used a perfectly mundane, non skill-based trick to gain the upper hand. The actual death was extremely quick and tidy, but there was plenty of roleplaying beforehand. To this day it remains one of my favorite PKs (even if I hated having to kill that character).

I like to think that player had a 'oh geez, so THAT'S why' moment, when their character saw the mantis head.

The point of this story? We don't have to resort to emote-less instant-kills just because someone is more powerful or exceptionally dangerous. Yes, deception is only one tool in the PK toolbox, and sometimes insufficient or impractical for the situation. No, I don't have any problem with someone who resorts to a swift use of code if the necessity is there. But for my part, I like to do my best to give the character's player a hint as to the answer to the question 'why', when their character's story comes to an end. I feel like it helps soothe the bitter taste of loss.

[jhunter]

On the other side, I've had pcs die where I had no idea or wasn't sure what the reasoning was behind it. Then with a following pc, overheard conversations and such pertaining to my previous pc and got to go: "Ahhh...I didn't know that. Neat." Some of them, I still wonder about to this day, my imagination running wild on tangents regarding that pc's death. To each their own, but I've personally got no problem with not knowing the "why" about things that my pc may not know about while I'm still playing them. Other than the loss of my first long lived character, (where I believe it was just my attitude and getting the hang of this game) the only thing that can make be bitter about the loss of a pc is if I were to find out the other person used OOC information that lead to the death of my pc. Which, I found out in one case it had happened and it involved a staffer who is no longer with us.

[Zoltan]

For the record, I like mercy on, sadly mercy is rather weak.

For instance, with backstab, if the backstab might actually kill the target, mercy will stop even the attempt, It also does not work for magick, archery, throw.

Oh, and No, I'm not mad.

I'm 95% sure it works for magick. At least on a few mobs I killed in the past.

As to the main thrust of the thread, meh. I haven't PKed enough to have an opinion, and I've only been insta-killed by a PC once. I deserved it, and I would have done pretty much the same thing in their shoes.

If something's really got your goat, file a player complaint instead of a GDB rant. Wait a week or two and see if it's still worth having a discussion about it.

[wizturbo]

Is killing another PC without any emoting or roleplay beforehand wrong?  No.  It's acceptable.  

Does this mean it should be considered "good" roleplay?  No.  It's not good roleplay by my standards.

[brytta.leofa]

Guess I'll just grind skills as fast as a I can and retire pcs with low stats. 'Cause I know someone's gonna just walk in and gank me first chance they get.

...
But if I thought it was for real, then it's my only recourse.

Absolutely untrue.  Avoid danger you can't handle, whether in the city or wilderness.

The flip side of what you're saying, if you think about it, is that you think you'll derive a coded advantage from people emoting, one that will enable you to escape more often or with less-skilled characters.  Ain't it?  Because we're not talking per se about poorly justified PKs; we're talking about minimally roleplayed ones.

[Riev]

Don't forget that it could very well be Rinthitis as well. At one point, I almost shit out an entire agafari log from my pants because I was just sitting in a well known bar, and I got backstabbed and killed, and had no idea what happened. I was under the impression it was a PC. I was wrong.


As far as killing with no emotes, you unfortunately can not take the risk to "hemote sneaks up on ~mark" and "tell mark (holding a dagger to his throat) Don't move." because while the OP might have stayed there, a good number of people know that, codedly, they can just flee self and run away. And even IF the mugger sent in a player complaint about it, it would take a week for staff to get the situation resolved, and all that happens is the player gets bad account notes, it doesn't mean they won't do it again.

On the whole, I agree with everything X-D said. While I'd love a world where ASS's situation works all the time, quite frankly some people are just not that willing to let their character die. If I want to kill someone, and I don't want the ENTIRE playerbase to know it was me, I'm going to kill them quick because if I fail, the Mantis Queen is going to know I tried to off some grebber in the Grasslands.

[X-D]

Wiz, one of my points and that of a few others is.

You cannot know what roleplay went on before the act, and the act itself is (usually) Roleplay as well, often the culmination of a bunch of roleplay.

I myself usually put a lot of time into a kill attempt. But unless it is a torture scene, 99% of the time the intent of my PC is to kill  the other as quickly as possible. If I have done my job right that will be 1 prompt, no warning. In other words, as realistic as possible.

Assume the best when your PC gets PK'd and be happy it was not random npc #553, because you know there was no roleplay there.

Oh, and far as mercy and magick is concerned, Heh, toss mon un fireball at a gimpka rat with mercy on and see what happens.

[Salt Merchant]

"Amos walks up and places a dagger to your back, "Don't move, else I stab you."

This is a prime example of a power emote. Amos has decided for you that he could successfully sneak up on you and put a dagger to your back before you notice or react defensively.

I'd rather see a coded way of doing this than be expected to dance to someone else's power emotes.

If people disagree with me, I'll just go around emoting "<x> puts you into a stranglehold and throttles you unconscious" whenever I feel like it. 

[Aaron Goulet]

I can sympathize with the original poster for the sole reason that I once lost a character in a similar fashion.  Still, while it isn't the most satisfying way to lose a character you spent days/weeks/months playing, there may have been IC justification.

I stand by the fact that complaints should still be sent if there is evidence of twinkery.  Tearing through the 'rinth on a rampant murdering spree with no IC consequences is unrealistic, because the world doesn't have a chance to react unless the staff happen to be watching at the time.

Also, I partially disagree with your rant, X-D; you're right that it may be roleplay to not emote/think/whatever before PKing somebody, but it strikes me as POOR roleplay, in the same sense that sparring/crafting/foraging/etc without emotes is poor roleplay.  I don't think that it's necessary for the other player to SEE what you're doing, but at least afford them the respect of putting thought and effort into something as drastic as robbing them of a massive investment of time and emotion (A.K.A. their PC).

[DustMight]

As much as I hate the whole 'death with no roleplay' thing when it happens to me, the truth is the roleplay likely happened and your part was fighting and dying.  There could have been a 30 minute conversation in another room where the player(s) discussed what do to about your character and then went forward and did exactly that.

The moment they hesitate - just as all the threads on bandits point out - the victim will run regardless of what setting the attackers put together.

If a victim needs to be put down quickly and it can be done, it is completely reasonable to have it done wham-bam.

It would be nice if they had put in a few combat emotes (did they?) but also they could have been RL shitting their pants and shaking hands and unable to emote (been there).

So, having been on both sides of the blade (as most of us have been) it's probably best to give the benefit of the doubt.

[Reiloth]

Wiz, one of my points and that of a few others is.

You cannot know what roleplay went on before the act, and the act itself is (usually) Roleplay as well, often the culmination of a bunch of roleplay.

I myself usually put a lot of time into a kill attempt. But unless it is a torture scene, 99% of the time the intent of my PC is to kill  the other as quickly as possible. If I have done my job right that will be 1 prompt, no warning. In other words, as realistic as possible.

Assume the best when your PC gets PK'd and be happy it was not random npc #553, because you know there was no roleplay there.

Oh, and far as mercy and magick is concerned, Heh, toss mon un fireball at a gimpka rat with mercy on and see what happens.

[lepxii]

"Amos walks up and places a dagger to your back, "Don't move, else I stab you."

This is a prime example of a power emote. Amos has decided for you that he could successfully sneak up on you and put a dagger to your back before you notice or react defensively.

I'd rather see a coded way of doing this than be expected to dance to someone else's power emotes.

If people disagree with me, I'll just go around emoting "<x> puts you into a stranglehold and throttles you unconscious" whenever I feel like it. 

seconded. Emotes that have a potential physical effect on the opposing party should always be played out open-ended so that the other party can decide on whether your emoted action succeeds / fails and / or allow said other party to emote a counter-play of his own.

Most of the time, you can't be certain what the other party is aware of, heck he might have seen you the whole time and decided to ignore you.

(* there are a few exceptions to the rule -- e.g. emoting out torture on someone who is  tied done (with *consent*)).

[DustMight]

I really want to kick many posting here in the head.

[misogynistic post edited by Nyr.  Use your big kid words, please.]

*STAMP OF FUCKING APPROVAL*

Sorry for the double-post, but this was so good it needed to be quoted again.

[wizturbo]

Assume the best when your PC gets PK'd and be happy it was not random npc #553, because you know there was no roleplay there.

Even assuming there was plenty of roleplay that happened before the "1 prompt" kill, I wouldn't classify that style of assassination as good, high quality roleplaying on the part of the assassin.  A good player brings the environment and the world alive, and I've seen some assassins that do this wonderfully while still getting the job done codedly.  I've had a PC assassinated, and I saved the log and love reading it every so often because of how cool it was.  

Is the swift, efficient, code-only approach of killing another PC acceptable?  As I've said already, yes it is.   But I think it focuses more on insuring the outcome of the assassination attempt rather than bringing the world alive.  To me, the acid test for good roleplay is fairly simple.  If all parties involved can look back at the log of the event and go "wow that was cool" then you've succeeded, anything short of that is sub-optimal, and I wouldn't see myself encouraging sub-optimal roleplay on the GDB.