Newbie Perks: Coded things we can do to keep new players.

[Sephiroto]

I'd like everyone to think of some coded ways we can help new players and characters transition into the tough world of Zalanthas.

One idea I had was giving newbie players (0 karma) a discount at all shops in the bazaar areas, specific shops, and at mount sellers so that they can better outfit themselves when they start the game.  When the player passes the number of hours that removes newbie rez then the discount also goes away.

I actually wouldn't be against this idea for all players under 3 hours played, but it is by no means necessary for a veteran.

I invite you all to share your ideas.

[Qzzrbl]

I'd like everyone to think of some coded ways we can help new players and characters transition into the tough world of Zalanthas.

One idea I had was giving newbie players (0 karma) a discount at all shops in the bazaar areas, specific shops, and at mount sellers so that they can better outfit themselves when they start the game.  When the player passes the number of hours that removes newbie rez then the discount also goes away.

I actually wouldn't be against this idea for all players under 3 hours played, but it is by no means necessary for a veteran.

I invite you all to share your ideas.

Mmmm.... I'm not so sure I'd like to see a discount at shops, but....

If it'd prove to help keep newbies, I wouldn't be entirely against it.

[Qzzrbl]

Ready access to helpers IG would help with newbie retention, methinks.

From Newbs Perspective:

> Newbie How do I buy water?

You send your message to the Helpers

From Helper's perspective:


A newbie asks: How do I buy water?

> Reply: Fill <water container> <merchant> <type of water>. Remember, if the type of water listed is something like "muddy water of doom", you have to type out "muddy water of doom" in its entirety.

Your message has been sent to the newbie.


Of course, it would be entirely invisible to non-helpers, and even they'd be able to toggle the option to receive new messages so they can keep their immurzions when shit goes down.

No s-descs will be shown.

And of course all of this will be logged and read by staff to prevent abuse.

[jhunter]

I don't think discounts at the shops would help new players. I think it would hurt them in the long run and make the curve suddenly become a bit steeper than they were used to to begin with, possibly turning them away from the game at that point.

[Qzzrbl]

I don't think discounts at the shops would help new players. I think it would hurt them in the long run and make the curve suddenly become a bit steeper than they were used to to begin with, possibly turning them away from the game at that point.

Yeaaah, I could see some people ragequitting because of that. x-X

[jriley]

Ready access to helpers IG would help with newbie retention, methinks.

From Newbs Perspective:

> Newbie How do I buy water?

You send your message to the Helpers

From Helper's perspective:


A newbie asks: How do I buy water?

> Reply: Fill <water container> <merchant> <type of water>. Remember, if the type of water listed is something like "muddy water of doom", you have to type out "muddy water of doom" in its entirety.

Your message has been sent to the newbie.


Of course, it would be entirely invisible to non-helpers, and even they'd be able to toggle the option to receive new messages so they can keep their immurzions when shit goes down.

No s-descs will be shown.

And of course all of this will be logged and read by staff to prevent abuse.

This is what we need.  We need something like this.  We need a mentoring system.

I toughened up a lot during my first couple of years learning Arm, learning many skills that transferred over well into real life.  But it needn't have been as difficult as it was at times.

[Dakota]

I started Arm in mid May of this year.

Came from one other MUD that was very easy to learn.

IMO you need an CODED walkthrough BEFORE someone enters the game. IMO this should be manditory for any new account with an option to repeat it at any given time.

Walkthrough covering things like: How to sell things. How to run away from monsters (as I found typing RUN does not help..). How to do a basic emote (w/ examples of what you see and someone else sees). Basic combat. How buy water / fill up a bucket, etc.

Also it would be VERY helpful for the first say 10-24 IG hours of a players life to have something like this if you're in the town you started in.

>WHERE WATER

>You are in Allanak. The Waterseller is east, west, east, east, east, north, west.

>WHERE BLAH

>You are in Allanak. If you want to go to the Gaj Tavern, where you started, go north, east, east, south.

Also have a SEPERATE CHANNEL (meaning a new channel from talk / whisper / wish / ooc) directly to HELPERS. When you type WHO, list Helpers as well and allow them to chat with players IG / Meet with them IG. Like have one on duty in both Nak and Tuluk so they can start chatting in that channel but then the Helper can FIND the player IG and continue the convo in talk and IC..

Remind new players / new accounts of these helper features by pinging a message every 15 minutes or so like a Hungry message (w/ option to turn it off / on).

Make no mistake.. Arm is -very- hard to learn and the stuff that is: "We wont tell you. Read and Fish through hoards of documents and find out IG." is astounding. That said I do adore the game. But it's -very- frustrating and if their was a codedly thing avail to hold my hand along as a n00b it would have helped a LOT.

AS FOR DISCOUNTS IN SHOPS...

No way.

Better is to have a n00b quest IG. If they start in Nak or Tuluk. At each entry point into the game for new players (after tutorial) you do this:

1: have NPC that greets player (REMIND THE PLAYER THAT IT IS AN NPC THEY ARE TALKING TOO)
2: NPC gives player a little quest (if in Nak, take this XXX item and bring it to my cousin at YYY and come back for some more work).
3: After the quest the NPC can give the player a RANDOMLY generated item from a pool. Could be 50 sid. Could be 100 sid. Could be a weapon. Whatever.
4: NPC maybe can offer one other GO FETCH quest (salt if in Nak? wood if in Tuluk.. TELLING THEM OF THE DANGEROUS OUTSIDE). NPC will walk the player, through dialogue on how to do that on their own (i.e. sell salt, to who, the fact you need a bag, etc).
5. Make it where to communicate w/ NPC they need to use talk with some basic emotes too.

Anyway, basically, rather than give new players a bonus in shops or learning..

Do something that helps them LEARN to play and get in the swing of things.

[najdorf]

It could be nice to have a hunger/thirst toggle for newbies. Then they turn it on, they never get hungry/thirsty. I have seen a couple newbies getting quite nervous about the whereabouts and cost of water in the past.

[Wolfsong]

Why would you ever toggle it back on?

[Qzzrbl]

I started Arm in mid May of this year.

Came from one other MUD that was very easy to learn.

IMO you need an CODED walkthrough BEFORE someone enters the game. IMO this should be manditory for any new account with an option to repeat it at any given time.

Walkthrough covering things like: How to sell things. How to run away from monsters (as I found typing RUN does not help..). How to do a basic emote (w/ examples of what you see and someone else sees). Basic combat. How buy water / fill up a bucket, etc.

Also it would be VERY helpful for the first say 10-24 IG hours of a players life to have something like this if you're in the town you started in.

>WHERE WATER

>You are in Allanak. The Waterseller is east, west, east, east, east, north, west.

>WHERE BLAH

>You are in Allanak. If you want to go to the Gaj Tavern, where you started, go north, east, east, south.

Also have a SEPERATE CHANNEL (meaning a new channel from talk / whisper / wish / ooc) directly to HELPERS. When you type WHO, list Helpers as well and allow them to chat with players IG / Meet with them IG. Like have one on duty in both Nak and Tuluk so they can start chatting in that channel but then the Helper can FIND the player IG and continue the convo in talk and IC..

Remind new players / new accounts of these helper features by pinging a message every 15 minutes or so like a Hungry message (w/ option to turn it off / on).

Make no mistake.. Arm is -very- hard to learn and the stuff that is: "We wont tell you. Read and Fish through hoards of documents and find out IG." is astounding. That said I do adore the game. But it's -very- frustrating and if their was a codedly thing avail to hold my hand along as a n00b it would have helped a LOT.

AS FOR DISCOUNTS IN SHOPS...

No way.

Better is to have a n00b quest IG. If they start in Nak or Tuluk. At each entry point into the game for new players (after tutorial) you do this:

1: have NPC that greets player (REMIND THE PLAYER THAT IT IS AN NPC THEY ARE TALKING TOO)
2: NPC gives player a little quest (if in Nak, take this XXX item and bring it to my cousin at YYY and come back for some more work).
3: After the quest the NPC can give the player a RANDOMLY generated item from a pool. Could be 50 sid. Could be 100 sid. Could be a weapon. Whatever.
4: NPC maybe can offer one other GO FETCH quest (salt if in Nak? wood if in Tuluk.. TELLING THEM OF THE DANGEROUS OUTSIDE). NPC will walk the player, through dialogue on how to do that on their own (i.e. sell salt, to who, the fact you need a bag, etc).
5. Make it where to communicate w/ NPC they need to use talk with some basic emotes too.

Anyway, basically, rather than give new players a bonus in shops or learning..

Do something that helps them LEARN to play and get in the swing of things.

Coded walkthrough = Mudschool

I've never met a single mudder that likes being forced to go through a mudschool before starting play.

Any mudder that says otherwise, is lying.

[Sephiroto]

At one point the IMMS were talking with the Helpers about writing up some rooms, NPC's, and scripts that would run like a mudschool, but I'm not sure what ever happened to that.

[Qzzrbl]

I think some of the newb documentation could be re-worked a bit too....

Like recommending that new players not start in Red Storm -- just like they're recommended not to start in the Labyrinth.

Because let's face it, Red Storm is harder to play in than 'Rinth.

Add more common knowledge stuff -- Because the one single complaint I hear from more new players, above anything else, is having to slog through the game with their first few characters not knowing dick about shit that in reality, their character should have known all along.

There should be directions to the Jal salt yard, to the cotton pickin' place, to the clay-digging place, to the dung sellers, stuff like that.

Warnings that beetles are common in the south, and they -can- and -will- chomp your ass to bits unless you're well-trained. Same with spiders, tembo, etc.

I remember when I first started playing, and the first time I saw "a large black beetle" at a distance, I wasn't thinking "large" as in "This fucker is bigger than you". I was thinking large as in as "big as my fist".

Same with a few other critters.

I found out the hard and fast way I was -wrong-. And it's very disheartening to a new player to have so many PCs die to things their characters IG should know.

I don't think we need to go making a "mudschool" that new players will probably just skip through anyway, or NPC quests, or any other coded "perks" to new 0-karma players that make no sense IG.

We just need a brief, easy-to-read newbie handguide that would tell them about -anything- an average commoner would know. Like that certain rat-bites will make you sick, that drinking water from certain places will send you to the Great Mantis Head in the Sky double-time, and that stars aren't visible in much of the Known.

I mean, sure, we could spend hours poring over the documents and searching through the GDB to find all the answers to these things.... But who wants to do that? Many new players won't even look at the GDB until after they decide they like the game.

We need to condense this shit for ease of access.

And more access to helpers.

On that note, I'm goin' to bed.

Goodnight folks.



::EDIT::

Oh, and by the way, don't forget to vote.

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-sanvean.html
http://www.mudconnect.com/cgi-bin/member/votelogin.cgi?mud=Armageddon

[Dakota]

re: mudschool..

obv the best way is weave it seamlessly in the game during the character / account generation process + when you first start playing. Be toggable and only active over all for the first say 24 hours of the IG life. Could be optional even but I'm just saying, it would help.

sure it's not the best turn on.. but then again it certainly isn't a frustrating turn off as being clueless and not knowing basic things that hardcore players take for granted.

also if you look at most muds which have say 200+ users on, they have something like that.

And I'm just saying as a n00b it would have helped. Curious to hear another new player pipe up on this.

[Lizzie]

Different players are attracted to different game styles. If I had come to Arm, when I was new, and genned into a mudschool, I would've genned right back out and looked for another game to play. One of the main things that attracted me to Arm, once I logged in for the first day, was that there was no mudschool. There was no help channel, there was no ooc channel, there were no global channels, no auto-help scrolling down my screen that I had to toggle off but couldn't figure out how because the screen was scrolling too fast. No color, no nothin. Just me and the game, and nothing to distract me from it. That's what I LIKED about Arm.

I still think something can be done in the Hall of Kings to provide a more helpful environment for new players. Maybe when they look at the map, they'll see a tutorial room they can point to. And it'd take them to a duplicate of the Gaj, complete with NPCs. And helpers who want to help, can be available to pop in, and their descriptions (mdesc and sdesc) would be obscured somehow while they're in that room. And the whole place would be an OOC tutorial place. Learn what their score/stat/skills are, learn what happens when you type who time weather... check the in-game help files without worrying about bowing to the templar who just walked in... that had to be the most frustrating thing, for me when I was new. Trying to read a help file, and someone showed up and tried to interact with me. I had to just log off and read the screen capture, because I hadn't learned about the ooc command yet and didn't want to get yelled at for telling someone ic to leave me alone so I could check the help files.

[Qzzrbl]

Different players are attracted to different game styles. If I had come to Arm, when I was new, and genned into a mudschool, I would've genned right back out and looked for another game to play. One of the main things that attracted me to Arm, once I logged in for the first day, was that there was no mudschool. There was no help channel, there was no ooc channel, there were no global channels, no auto-help scrolling down my screen that I had to toggle off but couldn't figure out how because the screen was scrolling too fast. No color, no nothin. Just me and the game, and nothing to distract me from it. That's what I LIKED about Arm.

I still think something can be done in the Hall of Kings to provide a more helpful environment for new players. Maybe when they look at the map, they'll see a tutorial room they can point to. And it'd take them to a duplicate of the Gaj, complete with NPCs. And helpers who want to help, can be available to pop in, and their descriptions (mdesc and sdesc) would be obscured somehow while they're in that room. And the whole place would be an OOC tutorial place. Learn what their score/stat/skills are, learn what happens when you type who time weather... check the in-game help files without worrying about bowing to the templar who just walked in... that had to be the most frustrating thing, for me when I was new. Trying to read a help file, and someone showed up and tried to interact with me. I had to just log off and read the screen capture, because I hadn't learned about the ooc command yet and didn't want to get yelled at for telling someone ic to leave me alone so I could check the help files.

I don't much see what would be wrong with a helper channel for new players.

It would be available only to those who sign up to be a helper.

*Grumble*

Back to sleep.

Again.

[Cutthroat]

I think discounts at shops might help keep newbies in the short run, but start turning them away eventually (like jhunter said). Look at it this way: the prices help keep leader PCs as a good source of equipment for newer players, who are encouraged by helpers to join clans (NOT just the Byn) anyway. Higher prices, imo, are helping more than lower prices would by keeping people together.

AFAIK, the live chat is great for helpers and those that use it, but my personal opinion is that a helper channel for players in the game would be a great thing. It's been argued to death a bunch of times already, but a very simple interface like 'helper' to talk to helpers and 'reply' for helpers to talk back would be nice. It won't be visible to anyone but helpers, and the players that use it (not everyone that uses it is a newbie ).

There could be helpfiles about it, and the only reminder about the helper channel could be stuck into approval e-mails for characters, in the message after "Congratulations, Amos has been approved for play" line perhaps. There wouldn't be a need for pop-up reminders, color, etc. It would ideally mesh perfectly with the rest of the game. Getting players to interact with helpers when they need help depends entirely on the players' knowledge of the ways they can reach us, so it needs to be made clear that these things exist.

[jriley]

Different players are attracted to different game styles. If I had come to Arm, when I was new, and genned into a mudschool, I would've genned right back out and looked for another game to play. One of the main things that attracted me to Arm, once I logged in for the first day, was that there was no mudschool. There was no help channel, there was no ooc channel, there were no global channels, no auto-help scrolling down my screen that I had to toggle off but couldn't figure out how because the screen was scrolling too fast. No color, no nothin. Just me and the game, and nothing to distract me from it. That's what I LIKED about Arm.

Yeah, I agree that mudschools are annoying.  You know, one thing that would help this discussion is if we had hard data about why people leave.  We don't have any quality control process in place to figure out what turns people off.  In some cases, we get a rage-quit message that lets us know precisely why people are dissatisfied.  Actually, these players are doing us a favor, but ironically we end up making fun of them.  For other players, they just kind of quietly slink off to go play World of Warcraft or something.

We would be much better off formulating a process here if we had some hard data to look at.  For years I've been trying to request that the staff put some kind of quality control process in place, basically like an autogenerated email sent to players if they don't log in for two weeks. 

I'd be curious as to what players would have to say about their own reasons for quitting.

[brytta.leofa]

I think the right way to do a MUD school is make it optional and easy to return to.

- Let 0-karma players enter the MUD school from any quit-safe room, with a combat-timer check.
- The school is open to 0-karma players and to helpers.  (When I say helpers, I really mean helpers and staff.)
- Newbies enter the school as a 0-day human PC of the same guild as their character.  Description and equipment are autogenerated.
- Keep the school SMALL: tavern, market with enterable stall, waterseller, stable, crafting room, 3x3 desert area with a wandering scrab.
- Helpers get a notification in-game when a newbie enters the school and one or fewer helpers are in the school.

When a player achieves 1 karma, he gets a nice "graduation" email, but can no longer access the school.

[Marauder Moe]

Re: newbie discount
This is a silly idea.  As has been mentioned, it's just going to upset them once they see all the prices jump up to normal levels.  If you really think that poverty is an issue for new players, we could more easily adjust char gen so that new players get 50-100% more starting money/food/water.  I personally think that starting coin is pretty good already, though.

Re: mud school
I absolutely agree that making it mandatory would be a terrible idea.  I can see, if staff are willing to put the time into it, that an optional mini-mud tutorial area could be a helpful for some players.  I would suggest that it be neither guild-specific (just give them low-levels of all the skills we wish to explain) nor multi-player.

One thing to be concerned about, though, is we don't necessarily want an area where players can experiment too much without consequences and potentially learn things about the code that aren't meant to be (widely) known.

I don't think 1 karma is a good graduation point either.  I'd set it at more in the range of 10-20 hours played.

[jhunter]

Different players are attracted to different game styles. If I had come to Arm, when I was new, and genned into a mudschool, I would've genned right back out and looked for another game to play. One of the main things that attracted me to Arm, once I logged in for the first day, was that there was no mudschool. There was no help channel, there was no ooc channel, there were no global channels, no auto-help scrolling down my screen that I had to toggle off but couldn't figure out how because the screen was scrolling too fast. No color, no nothin. Just me and the game, and nothing to distract me from it. That's what I LIKED about Arm.

This is the same for me too. I do think there should be an optional way for new players to practice and learn the mechanics of the game without it interfering with the workings of the gameworld. I think that a small area separated off from the rest of the game where tutorials and things could be played through (if one so chooses to do so instead of diving into the actual gameworld with their character). Have it be an option from the main menu. When you're done with the "training area" you can quit back to the main menu and then enter the game. Make it so that once you have entered the game with a character, the option is disabled from the main menu for your account.

[Qeynos]

It's not as if a "mud school" couldn't be completely optional. SoI has that OOC guest lounge, and off to the side of it is a few rooms with information about the races and the universe. You're not even in-game with your character while doing it, and you can simply choose not to. If people are so terrified of having something in the game that isn't IC, make it an option from the menu that puts you through a tutorial of the basic commands and information, and asks you to try emoting for yourself a few times and such. If that would have caused you to immediately abandon Armageddon when you started, I don't want to know what kind of game you were looking for in the first place.

I'm sure a portion of us came over from SoI, Harshlands, WhateverMUD. Plenty others didn't, and the fact remains that the vast majority of new players enter the game with so little knowledge that their behaviour barely qualifies as roleplay. It's no wonder, because the information isn't where they look when they try out a new game, it's over on some website in an unfathomable mess of links that obviously few take the trouble to go through. Having reviewed applications and helped out newbies on another RPI, it was obvious that practically none of them had any idea what the game was about, and that was a setting everyone knew from books or movies. Here, I get the impression that most newbies don't actually read the documentation until they've been mutilated or humiliated through several characters due to their lack of basic knowledge.

Seems like a brief tutorial situated in the login menu or the Hall of Kings would help some and hurt noone.

[Old Kank]

Create "classrooms" where players can go (from the log-in menu, perhaps?) with a generic character to practice coded aspects of the game without repercussions in the game world.  These classrooms may look something like this:

-Emotes: Let players emote and see what their emotes look like from different perspectives of the game.
-Communication: Step players through the different variations of say/tell, walk through the table system and the talk command, and explain how psionics work.
-Combat: Give players generic, disposable characters in an environment with harmless (practice dummy), mostly harmless, and aggressive/dangerous creatures.
-Crimcode: Like the combat room, except with soldiers and different legal environments and crime scenarios.

Create a "newbie mode" that can be toggled on or off within game.  Turning it on would do things like:

-Add [PLAYER] flags to PC short descriptions.
-Give brief, OOC explanations of important things.  (For example: a lanky, brown-skinned gith has arrived from the west.  [You should run!  Gith are a race of hostile humanoids.])
-Give warnings at opportune times.  (For example: [You have passed through the west gate of Allanak.  The deserts beyond this point are very dangerous!])
-Flag NPCs and items with pertinent helpfiles or command text. (For example: [A large building is here. [It looks like you could enter it! Type 'HELP ENTER' for more advice.]

Give players the option to enter the game immediately with generic, pre-fabricated characters.

We can do this with tattoos and clothing, why not with characters?  Let them select gender, hair color, skin tone, etc. from menu options, add in some randomized adjectives like 'wavy' or 'dark' or 'scarred' and presto!  Instant character, no waiting.  Put an account cap on it of 5 pre-fab characters, or so.

From the Hall of Kings, give new players the option to start in the Byn, or other newbie-friendly clans, provided there are currently clan-members logged on, and in that city.

-Modify the starting location/gear for these characters to place them in high-traffic areas of their clans.
-Put basic class/race restrictions on this, so merchants don't end up in the Byn, or elves end up in Kadius.

Write up a guide for players that have NEVER mudded before.  Make tailored versions for players coming from MMO's or Farmville.

Modify the 'who' command to show geographic-specific information:

Code Select Expand


There are 20 players currently in the world, other than yourself.
 -You are in Allanak.  There are 7 visible characters currently in Allanak.
 -There are 2 visible players in the Gaj.  There is 1 visible player in the Trader's.


Create a command that will give specific turn-by-turn directions to a specified tavern.

Code Select Expand


>find Gaj
To get to the Gaj, go: w, w, w, w, w, w, s
>find Tooth
You can only find taverns in the city you're currently in!


[Lizzie]

Oh god no. No, and a thousand times no. As I said - I came to Armageddon because it did NOT have any of that stuff. Armageddon is a niche game, catering to a niche demographic. People who are attracted to those types of newbie-friendly type things, are people who are not attracted to Armageddon. If you turn Armageddon into that kind of game, I'd wager most players who came here because those things did -not- exist, would leave. And you'd be left with a game that is no longer what you came here to play.

Create "classrooms" where players can go (from the log-in menu, perhaps?) with a generic character to practice coded aspects of the game without repercussions in the game world.  These classrooms may look something like this:

-Emotes: Let players emote and see what their emotes look like from different perspectives of the game.
-Communication: Step players through the different variations of say/tell, walk through the table system and the talk command, and explain how psionics work.
-Combat: Give players generic, disposable characters in an environment with harmless (practice dummy), mostly harmless, and aggressive/dangerous creatures.
-Crimcode: Like the combat room, except with soldiers and different legal environments and crime scenarios.

Create a "newbie mode" that can be toggled on or off within game.  Turning it on would do things like:

-Add [PLAYER] flags to PC short descriptions.
-Give brief, OOC explanations of important things.  (For example: a lanky, brown-skinned gith has arrived from the west.  [You should run!  Gith are a race of hostile humanoids.])
-Give warnings at opportune times.  (For example: [You have passed through the west gate of Allanak.  The deserts beyond this point are very dangerous!])
-Flag NPCs and items with pertinent helpfiles or command text. (For example: [A large building is here. [It looks like you could enter it! Type 'HELP ENTER' for more advice.]

Give players the option to enter the game immediately with generic, pre-fabricated characters.

We can do this with tattoos and clothing, why not with characters?  Let them select gender, hair color, skin tone, etc. from menu options, add in some randomized adjectives like 'wavy' or 'dark' or 'scarred' and presto!  Instant character, no waiting.  Put an account cap on it of 5 pre-fab characters, or so.

From the Hall of Kings, give new players the option to start in the Byn, or other newbie-friendly clanscertain clans, provided there are currently clan-members logged on, and in that city.

-Modify the starting location/gear for these characters to place them in high-traffic areas of their clans.
-Put basic class/race restrictions on this, so merchants don't end up in the Byn, or elves end up in Kadius.

Write up a guide for players that have NEVER mudded before.  Make tailored versions for players coming from MMO's or Farmville.

Modify the 'who' command to show geographic-specific information:

Code Select Expand


There are 20 players currently in the world, other than yourself.
  -You are in Allanak.  There are 7 visible characters currently in Allanak.
  -There are 2 visible players in the Gaj.  There is 1 visible player in the Trader's.


Create a command that will give specific turn-by-turn directions to a specified tavern.

Code Select Expand


>find Gaj
To get to the Gaj, go: w, w, w, w, w, w, s
>find Tooth
You can only find taverns in the city you're currently in!


[Marauder Moe]

Newbie help messages seem OK to me, though I'm not sure how I feel about a "[PLAYER]" tag.  I like how we encourage people from early on to treat NPCs just like PCs (even though most of us sort of grow out of the habit).  It's a good lesson.

I have mixed feelings on pre-fab characters.  Sure, it's good to lower barriers to game entry, but on the other hand, making a character is very important learning experience.  New players must learn about the world through reading docs.  More importantly, they must also get into the mindset that their character isn't a walking pile of stats and skills, but rather a living breathing human/elf/dwarf/halfbreed with a personality and history.  Part of me says that we're better off not having players in-game who haven't put at least some rudimentary thought towards those things.

That said, how about this for a newbie perk: new accounts' first characters get top priority in the app queue?

I don't like letting newbies start in a clan.  I don't see anything wrong with forcing them to interact with people (read: play Armageddon) enough to get hired.

I'm against expansion of the 'who' command.  I think giving tavern population info like that could actually reduce average tavern populations, as people log in, see no people in the Gaj/Tooth/wherever, and then not bother go to go there and/or just log out.

I do like the idea of an in-game command to get directions to certain city landmarks (newbie taverns, maybe water-sellers too).

[Old Kank]

Oh god no. No, and a thousand times no. As I said - I came to Armageddon because it did NOT have any of that stuff. Armageddon is a niche game, catering to a niche demographic. People who are attracted to those types of newbie-friendly type things, are people who are not attracted to Armageddon. If you turn Armageddon into that kind of game, I'd wager most players who came here because those things did -not- exist, would leave. And you'd be left with a game that is no longer what you came here to play.

Obviously we disagree.  Can you explain why making the game more accessible is a bad idea?  I'm not advocating dumping players into mudschool, and I don't think that having areas of the game where players can practice playing is all that different from what you suggested.  In-game tutorials and scripts can be annoying, I agree, which is I wouldn't want to see it made mandatory, but I don't see how having the option hurts anything.

Arm has always had an elitist mentality.  The same refrain has been going around for 17 years:  "Arm has a steep learning curve, and I like that because it weeds out the kind of player we don't want here."  But in the end, I think that's only hurt the game.  Arm's playerbase has remained relatively stable over the years, but in that time video games have become absolutely pervasive, and we've seen almost none of that growth.  Mudders are a dying breed, and we've been fortunate enough to have such a passionate fan-base that I don't think RPI's will go away anytime soon, but there's a big slice of the pie out there that we're missing.

I simply refuse to believe that making the game more accessible is going to lead to bad things like throngs of people sexing it up in the Hall of Kings, or friendly elves going around asking, "How dost the day treatest thou?"  Give new players a chance to see the game, and let us get our hooks in them, and then they'll learn.  Newbies can be taught to meet our standards, and if not, there's a reason we have permadeath.

[Samira]

I think a newbie school, even if optional, would give incoming players the wrong impression and wouldn't be very helpful.  The hardest time I had as a newbie was not learning the code, but learning:

-How to tell PCs and NPCs apart
-Which stores buy/sell what and where to find them
-How to make enough money to live on

I don't think a newbie discount would be a good idea either.  The trouble for newbies isn't that they don't have enough starting money, it's that they don't know what they should invest it in or where to get anything - frustration sets in long before poverty.  I think all the noob corpses with tons of 'sid in them are testimony to that.

[Marauder Moe]

The elitist mentality can only be considered to have hurt the game if you measure success in terms of player count.

EDIT: only in terms of player count.

Obviously, I'm not against helping new players learn how to play the game, but I do believe that Armageddon is not right for the vast majority of people/gamers/mudders.

It's not about being "better" than them, it's simply that most people aren't interested, and won't become interested, in this style/level of roleplaying, and I would rather have people realize that Arm is not the right MUD for them before they get into the world.

[Lizzie]

What Moe said, pretty much. If you're looking strictly at numbers, then change the game, turn it into Gemstone or Aardolf, charge a monthly fee, and you'll have a successful and profitable game. It won't be an RPI anymore, and people who WANT to play RPIs will be playing somewhere else. But it'll be successful.

If you think adding mudschool will improve the success of this RPI, while maintaining it as an RPI and providing the level of consistent RP, without the staff having to spend most of their time explaining to people who are used to mudschools in H&Ss that no, it's not a good idea to log in and try to kill the first thing you see - then explain how you feel this will improve the success of the RPI.

I don't have to prove that it won't, I only have to look at all the games that have mudschools to convince me that it's a bad idea.

[Samira]

Oh god no. No, and a thousand times no. As I said - I came to Armageddon because it did NOT have any of that stuff. Armageddon is a niche game, catering to a niche demographic. People who are attracted to those types of newbie-friendly type things, are people who are not attracted to Armageddon. If you turn Armageddon into that kind of game, I'd wager most players who came here because those things did -not- exist, would leave. And you'd be left with a game that is no longer what you came here to play.

Obviously we disagree.  Can you explain why making the game more accessible is a bad idea?  I'm not advocating dumping players into mudschool, and I don't think that having areas of the game where players can practice playing is all that different from what you suggested.  In-game tutorials and scripts can be annoying, I agree, which is I wouldn't want to see it made mandatory, but I don't see how having the option hurts anything.

Arm has always had an elitist mentality.  The same refrain has been going around for 17 years:  "Arm has a steep learning curve, and I like that because it weeds out the kind of player we don't want here."  But in the end, I think that's only hurt the game.  Arm's playerbase has remained relatively stable over the years, but in that time video games have become absolutely pervasive, and we've seen almost none of that growth.  Mudders are a dying breed, and we've been fortunate enough to have such a passionate fan-base that I don't think RPI's will go away anytime soon, but there's a big slice of the pie out there that we're missing.

I simply refuse to believe that making the game more accessible is going to lead to bad things like throngs of people sexing it up in the Hall of Kings, or friendly elves going around asking, "How dost the day treatest thou?"  Give new players a chance to see the game, and let us get our hooks in them, and then they'll learn.  Newbies can be taught to meet our standards, and if not, there's a reason we have permadeath.

I agree with Lizzie.  For me, keeping things like "tutorial mode" and "newbie chat channels" out of the game is not about elitism/accessibility.  It's about maintaining the "serious business" atmosphere that impressed me so much as a new player.  Even if you could toggle them off like you can in other games, those features would strike newcomers looking for a serious game as garish and intrusive, like a room with Bible vending machines adjoining a place of worship (but not as bad, of course).

[Marauder Moe]

Well, I'm not necessarily against a MUD school (though I am against a required one).  Difficulty in learning the code isn't a barrier we really want to maintain.  I mean, do you really believe that the lack of a MUD school is what makes Arm great?  I always thought it was the roleplaying.

I suppose what we need to do is lower the code entry barriers while maintaining the RP ones.  (Though difficulty with the code does help purify the playerbase in that only those who are really enthralled with Zalanthas are willing to endure it.)

[Oleupata]

As a middle ground, how would you guys feel about a note attached to the first X characters, saying something like, "If you wish to go through the tutorial area, type 'change mudschool' at any time during your first X hours of playtime'? Then, if they type change mudschool, they can go to a place completely separate from the game that allows them to buy starting gear and learn the basics of commands, shopping, and perhaps the world?

I'm not saying anything like such a place is in the works, I'm just curious how both sides of this disagreement might agree.

[Talia]

Vanth did some research earlier this year on new player retention. Some of the more interesting findings: The players most likely to stick to the game were invited by friends; this was also the biggest source of new players numerically. Next-best player source by retention rate was TMS (Top Mud Sites). The vast majority of newbies who don't return to the game still have a living character...that is, they didn't die and THEN leave--they aren't ragequitting.

So, conclusions as to what players can do right this moment to help recruit and retain new players:
-- Invite your friends.
-- Vote on both TMS and TMC.
-- Involve newbies as much as humanly possible in the game, as quickly as possible. Involve them in conversation, take them aside for OOC command instruction if necessary, introduce them to a clan leader who could hire them. Make them feel OOCly welcome and comfortable.
-- Helpers, helpers, helpers. Point newbies to the Helpers.

I do believe that the code is a barrier to getting newbies quickly involved, though I don't think it's the only barrier. I would hope that as much as possible, players and staff can avoid being the barrier, and do what we can to reduce barriers. Personally, I very much believe that the game world and the overall player experience would be improved by having more players.

[brytta.leofa]

'change mudschool'

The "change locdescs" room was exactly what I was thinking of.

I think it's a good idea, albeit one that will help only with a certain group of newbies: those who are fairly new to MUDs.  If you've played a Diku-style MUD before, you know enough about Arm to kill off your first character.

[a strange shadow]

If I hadn't gotten sucked up by Durg and crew when I was wandering Tuluk like a lost puppy, I probably wouldn't have stuck with the game. As it was, they helped me through my newbie curve and my first character lasted 18 days recklessly played.

I like the idea of optional mudschool. I think it is crucial to get newbies involved with established clans and groups.

Sometimes, you run into that flavor of newbie that just refuses to 'get it', but for the most part, they want to learn.

[Qeynos]

Well, I think what Lizzie means is that Armageddon, and RPIs in general, cater to players of a certain standard. We generally don't get players from WoW, or from MindlessDragonSlayerMUD for that matter, because those games tend not to foster the type of player who would want to seek out a challenge as unique and daunting as an RPI. It's insanely hard to get into Armageddon or one of the other few remaining RPIMUDs, which is why the playerbase pretty much doesn't grow, but also why these games keep a standard infinitely higher than more newbie-friendly games. Your hand isn't held by tutors and pop-up hints while playing the game, nor does actual gameplay change significantly throughout the transition from newbie to established player. This means that only the clever, resourceful, or truly interested player sticks around, and we get to enjoy a roleplaying environment mostly devoid of bumbling idiots, though also with fewer players than there could potentially be.

I agree that there shouldn't be a plethora of in-game newbie help elements, both because it would change the newbie's initial perception of the game and because those dedicated enough to the RPI style will eventually learn it all anyway. This doesn't mean that there shouldn't be more ample opportunity for assistance outside of the game; we do have a wealth of documentation, after all, and we don't expect a new player to learn solely from in-game experience that there are such things as templars and a shortage of metal. However, that documentation is both kind of old and really difficult to make sense of if you don't sit down for hours to peruse it. It easily becomes overwhelming, especially because most of it isn't actually very relevant to you right now. Most of what you need is there, but it isn't as easy to find as one might want. Most new players start at the login menu, not in the dusty corners of the documentation site, and although they probably find their way there eventually, learning by doing tends to be more effective than learning by reading some document from 2001. A brief tutorial of emoting and basic commands could easily be put into the login menu, providing prospective newbies with the ability to try out emoting, item mechanics and movement before they're thrown into the actual game. Figuring it out with a crowd of veterans standing around you can be really intimidating.

[Old Kank]

The elitist mentality can only be considered to have hurt the game if you measure success only in terms of player count.

Obviously, I'm not against helping new players learn how to play the game, but I do believe that Armageddon is not right for the vast majority of people/gamers/mudders.

Since the topic at hand is how to keep new players, I guess I take it for granted that player count is one of the concerns being addressed.  I agree that Arm isn't for everyone, and I don't think anyone is suggesting we try to make it for everyone.  I'd be willing to wager that there are plenty of people out there who would be great Arm players if we could reel them in, though.

It won't be an RPI anymore, and people who WANT to play RPIs will be playing somewhere else. But it'll be successful.

If you think adding mudschool will improve the success of this RPI, while maintaining it as an RPI and providing the level of consistent RP, without the staff having to spend most of their time explaining to people who are used to mudschools in H&Ss that no, it's not a good idea to log in and try to kill the first thing you see - then explain how you feel this will improve the success of the RPI.

I feel it would improve Arm because I think the notion that you should be expected to go through twenty characters just to understand the basic mechanics of how to play the game is an old, out-dated concept that should finally be laid to rest.  If we can teach people how to play this game without them having to go through that experience, I see no reason not to.  I look at the sheer amount of information required to play this game and I think that if I were a newbie today, there's no way I'd be willing or able to play.  Why is it reasonable to expect someone with a job/family/life who may have never played a MUD before to spend hours reading through documentation and instructions just to try the game?  There's a reason that almost any video game on the market today includes an in-game tutorial (AKA: the first 20 minutes) instead of a 300 page instruction guide.

How is your own proposal different from the mudschool concepts that several people here have suggested?

I still think something can be done in the Hall of Kings to provide a more helpful environment for new players. Maybe when they look at the map, they'll see a tutorial room they can point to. And it'd take them to a duplicate of the Gaj, complete with NPCs. And helpers who want to help, can be available to pop in, and their descriptions (mdesc and sdesc) would be obscured somehow while they're in that room. And the whole place would be an OOC tutorial place. Learn what their score/stat/skills are, learn what happens when you type who time weather... check the in-game help files without worrying about bowing to the templar who just walked in... that had to be the most frustrating thing, for me when I was new. Trying to read a help file, and someone showed up and tried to interact with me. I had to just log off and read the screen capture, because I hadn't learned about the ooc command yet and didn't want to get yelled at for telling someone ic to leave me alone so I could check the help files.

-- Involve newbies as much as humanly possible in the game, as quickly as possible. Involve them in conversation, take them aside for OOC command instruction if necessary, introduce them to a clan leader who could hire them. Make them feel OOCly welcome and comfortable.

This is why I think we should focus on code changes that identify players, and direct them to places and clans where players congregate.  Every time I see a new, linkdead character sitting in a starting room for three days, I think to myself, "Damn.  I wish I'd been there to try and engage them in something."

Edited to add one final thought on the subject:
There's a whole series of characters on Arm that most veterans dislike.  New nobles or new templars, and tall, muscular sdescs.  Cold-hearted assassin in newbie gear, or the elf that steals everything in sight.  But, if you give them time, most of them will eventually become those really memorable nobles and templars, or the grizzled Byn sergeant that you remember for years.  Newbies aren't any different:  Get as many of them in the game, welcome them with open arms, go out of your way to show them how to play the game, and if you're lucky, a couple years down the road, they'll come back and assassinate your PC.

[Wolfsong]

A script for new players that runs on the first created character of an account, and/or can run optionally on additional characters if toggled on could work, but shouldn't be too spammy or handholding - a "mudschool" or "newbie zone", IMO, is too jarring. "LOL, type KILL TREGIL here to teach that naughty tregil a lesson!"

What about like (and someone may have suggested it...)

Someone contacts you.

A gruff, scarred old (yourrace) sends you, "I noticed you were looking a little lost. I've lived here all my life; want some pointers? If you do, here's your first lesson - try contactin' me over the Way. Name's Amos/Malik/unique name, whatever."

(To start the newbie tutorial, contact Amos/Malik/unique name, whatever. If you do not wish to run through the newbie tutorial, just ignore him.)

contact Amos/Malik/unique name, whatever

You contact a gruff, scarred old (yourrace).

A gruff, scarred old (yourrace) sends you, "Okay, first tip. Blah blah blah. How to use the Way. OOC tidbit about setting a prompt. Trivia about city. Common information. Summarized opinions on various races. How to make sid (cotton farming, logging, glass hacking, salt foraging - mention in brief, not too much detail. Suggest they contact someone else about it). Where to find food/drink. Warning about Rinth, Gray Forest, Undertuluk, whatever. Catchy goodbye." -- broken up into several Ways, of course, spaced, maybe separated and require the player to psi the NPC something, a word - yes, go on, etc., - to continue through the tutorial.

That isn't entirely a mudschool, gives the same information a PC should (if the newbie had been contacted by a PC instead) and isn't spammy to other players - hell, maybe it isn't even real Way, just copied to mimic how the Way works, so won't stun drain newbies to death, etc. And if the newbie is asked how they learned what they know, they can say Amos or Malik told them.

[Lizzie]

The difference between mudschool and what I suggested, is what I suggested is more on the order of how it's done in Shadows of Isildur. It's not an automated tutorial, it's not a scripted set of help hints, it's not the blue-eyed woman in the Gaj going OOC to discuss the finer points of combat syntax, and it's not your new player running around Smurf Practice Village picking off kobolds with their mithril sword.

It's a "player's lounge" that exists -explicitly- as an OOC area, where characters don't exist. Maybe it'd be three rooms - one with a directional, one with an enter/leave. Where I, if I were a helper, might show up as the nondescript female. You, the new player, could LOOK at me and see:

You see a nondescript female. She is a humanoid of some height and weight.

I could change my ldesc and the new player could look in the room and see it. New players wouldn't need to worry about using the OOC command, because by virtue of their existence in this room, all conversation would be OOC. However, all the communications and emote code would be functional, so you could teach them how to have a completely IC conversation - from entering the room, to sitting at a table, to what happens when you're not listening, but sitting at a different table and I talk -

Helpers would be alerted only if a new player pops into the lounge. If they're in the lounge, it's because they're either hoping for assistance, or they want to check out syntax. Helpers could go in there, from the game...

but there would be no mudschool. Simply a place new players can go AS PLAYERS to check the help files and get live one-on-one assistance from a helper without the interruption of Templar Joe walking into the room, not knowing this guy is new, and lopping off his head for not bowing. Or otherwise feeling the pressure to actually roleplay yet, because they're not in the actual game yet.

It would be something new players would point to when they're in the hall of kings. When they're done in the player lounge, they'd type quit, or exit, or leave - and end up back in the hall of kings.

It'd be where new players would have a chance to learn how to communicate, and have things explained to them inside the textual atmosphere, but not in the game. There would be no scripts, no automated AI npcs who walk them through the steps of anything. Strictly help file, and helper communication, with all communication/movement code functioning.

[Dar]

Honestly, why no mud school? Give them an offline Allanak or Tuluk to explore and die in temply created characters. It'll give people something to do while they're waiting for the character application to get approved.

[spacewars]

here is a little food for thought for everyone whom as posted before me.

I started in 2008 maybe a little before because i hadn't done anything the gdb until after i played the game a little bit, so here it goes

This game was my very first mud introduced to me by kronibas and fantasywriter to very good friends of mine, they helped me learn the basic code and would answer my questions about the code any way they could. The got me interested by telling me stories of some of there previous characters adventures, and deaths in cool ways.
Now in 2010 i'm still considered a newb, but i read a lot about the game even to this day. Most of the posts i have read but never posted anything.
the game is HARSH AS HELL for a new player whom has never played a mud before, I'm a PC gamer at heart. But when i came to arm i got really discouraged at first. NEWBIE DOCS on the main armageddon website would be great. Better than the ones that are there would be way more benificial. Certain things about the world you will only find out on the gdb. The help files can be really confusing at times. (Yes my grammer is bad cause i'm not IG so please don't be an ass about it, i do my best on my spelling and puncutation IG, i could care less OG but its easy to mess up when your typing as fast as you can to reply to someone like a Templar or even a friend your pc has made IG anyway back to what i was saying)  from a newb standpoint keep the economy the way it is. if you really feel there is a need for a mudschool well at one point i tried a different game while waiting for  a character to get approved it put me through mud school it pissed me off, its really hard to talk to the npc's in ways that they understand what you are asking. I would completly stand by a newbie help doc explaining some culture, background, some of the common creatures, of areas. of course certain things about the game you should find out ig, but the things and creatures that roam around the citys withing lets say 20 leagues of the outer walls of the cities would be nice. Don't have to tell everything about them just sutle warnings like if your new flee from that raptor or mek or whatever else can kill you in two hits. Helper channel would be nice but helpers aren't always playing this game. If you want quality control then instead of getting mad at the guy who sent a message to someone asking a certain question. Be a little damn nicer to people instead of just replying in a rude manner saying find out ig or fuck off find out ig, something like that could better be said like this The most fun thing for you to do would be to find out ig i'm sorry i can't answer that question.
People have feelings and the elitest mentality that i've run into is what in my NEWB opinion has ran a lot of people away, even tho you don't want to ruin the great roleplay this game has. You don't have to run the new people off that can't roleplay, maybe helping them learn how, not everyone was a nerd growing up playing D&D or other types of role play games. or even growing up playing this game. Simply people should spend a little more time helping the new players learn how to role play than actually jumping down their throat because they don't know how.

I may add more to this at some point if so i'll just repost it but for now i've said what i've had to say

edit: wanted to reiterate, if you want to keep the elite mentality of this game. then quit bitching when someone fucks up and teach them how the fuck to do it right

[spacewars]

Honestly, why no mud school? Give them an offline Allanak or Tuluk to explore and die in temply created characters. It'll give people something to do while they're waiting for the character application to get approved.

This would be a great idea but talking to npc's and asking them questions is hard to do unless you know exactly what to say or ask to them.

[Gunnerblaster]

A guide NPC in each town would be nice. Stationary and usually standing around infront of spawn areas (Infront of a starting tavern, etc.).

Code Select Expand


>The spry, curly-haired guide stands here, besides the entrance to the tavern.

>Look Guide

>He has blonde hair and blue eyes. He is a pretty
short guy. He is lean of frame and darkly tanned.
<Type 'help guide' for Syntax to interact with guide>
The Spry, curly-haired guide is in excellent condition.
<worn on torso>      A tan, 'I <3 Allanak' sandcloth shirt
<worn on legs>        A pair of tan, sandcloth leggings
<worn on feet>        A pair of chalton-hide sandals

>help guide

>Guides guide you around, bla bla bla - Syntax are,
'talk guide help' ---> List of things to talk about.
'talk guide <topic>' ---> Gives directions & brief summary/history of topic. Can include taverns, armor shops, weapon shops, food shops and water vendors.

I'd like to see majority of tavernkeepers, armor vendors/weapons vendors have some sort of 'talk hi' response - Be it explaining a little bit about their establishment or just something generic that won't 'expire' (Like a certain someone who talks about a certain event that happen WAY TOO LONG ago).

[Bilanthri]

A guide NPC in each town would be nice. Stationary and usually standing around infront of spawn areas (Infront of a starting tavern, etc.).

Code Select Expand


>The spry, curly-haired guide stands here, besides the entrance to the tavern.

>Look Guide

>He has blonde hair and blue eyes. He is a pretty
short guy. He is lean of frame and darkly tanned.
<Type 'help guide' for Syntax to interact with guide>
The Spry, curly-haired guide is in excellent condition.
<worn on torso>      A tan, 'I <3 Allanak' sandcloth shirt
<worn on legs>        A pair of tan, sandcloth leggings
<worn on feet>        A pair of chalton-hide sandals

>help guide

>Guides guide you around, bla bla bla - Syntax are,
'talk guide help' ---> List of things to talk about.
'talk guide <topic>' ---> Gives directions & brief summary/history of topic. Can include taverns, armor shops, weapon shops, food shops and water vendors.

I'd like to see majority of tavernkeepers, armor vendors/weapons vendors have some sort of 'talk hi' response - Be it explaining a little bit about their establishment or just something generic that won't 'expire' (Like a certain someone who talks about a certain event that happen WAY TOO LONG ago).

That's not too bad. Fairly unobtrusive, with the potential for being quite helpful. Kinda like a newbie read-only board.

My hang-up with a mud-school extra-dimensional space is that it might detract from the "real" feel of the world.

[Qzzrbl]

Alright....

So after some thinking, I don't think a mudschool, or even a separate "guest lounge" to show new players the ropes would be such a horrible idea.

I was against it before because every time I think "Mudschool" or anything similar, I go back to every shitty mudschool to every shitty h&s mud I've ever been through.

But then I remembered.

This is Armageddon.

The staff here are fucking -awesome-, and could probably make the mudschool to end all mudschools.

Another thing I wanted to bring up is the main page at Armageddon.org....

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who thinks it needs a major facelift and some re-working for ease of use.

No offense to anyone, but the front page's pretty bland.... It doesn't really catch the eye, it looks hard to navigate, there's room for -alot- of improvement.

I mean, we've got a community chock full of talented artists, who I'm pretty sure wouldn't at all mind helping with designs.

[lordcooper]

I think the single most helpful thing for me would have been some kind of practice room to figure out the various emote syntaxes in.  Add a couple of random items and npcs, echo everything back both how you'd normally see it and how other players would.

Probably a good idea to give newbies a "Don't FOLLOW characters you've only just met" warning.  I'm sure I can't be the only one to lose their first character to this.

[Potaje]

Probably a good idea to give newbies a "Don't FOLLOW characters you've only just met" warning.  I'm sure I can't be the only one to lose their first character to this.

I think that clue is in the armageddon slogan. I remember my first character, years past, and some Pc was trying to coax him out the gates to -work- when I hesitated, he said to do it our he would kill me on the spot. Great hiring tactic. Point is, I read about armageddon and new the premise of "Betrayal and Murder", so i was cautious of others.  

[deviant storm]

As a middle ground, how would you guys feel about a note attached to the first X characters, saying something like, "If you wish to go through the tutorial area, type 'change mudschool' at any time during your first X hours of playtime'? Then, if they type change mudschool, they can go to a place completely separate from the game that allows them to buy starting gear and learn the basics of commands, shopping, and perhaps the world?

I'm not saying anything like such a place is in the works, I'm just curious how both sides of this disagreement might agree.

Personally, I like this idea or Lizzie's Lounge idea rather than scripts or things of that nature. Give the newbies a little breathing room to figure a few things out, before immersing them in Arm. I'm one of those people who mentally roll their eyes when starting a new mud and seeing a mud school first things, but it would be good to give people a chance to get some idea of what they are doing.

The next step is getting Arm's hooks into them. Interaction, interaction, interaction. That's what it's all about. Having them have to look to get work/clanned is a good start. Getting them involved. I've tried a few games and none of them have grabbed me by the 'short hairs' the way Arm has, and that's the main reason I keep coming back.

Newbie discount in shops? No way. It's just setting them up for a big disappointment when it runs out. This would ultimately work against the game.

[Lizzie]

Alright....

I was against it before because every time I think "Mudschool" or anything similar, I go back to every shitty mudschool to every shitty h&s mud I've ever been through.

But then I remembered.

This is Armageddon.

This is the crux of the issue I have right here. YOU remembered, because you've already been playing Arm and you already know about the game. People who -would- go to the "mudschool" go, because they haven't yet experienced Armageddon to raise their expectations. People who WOULD play games that advertise mudschools as a feature, are people who WOULD play shitty H&S muds that have mudschools. That is the expectation of people who WOULD be attracted to games that feature mudschools.

You had that notion in your head, the knowledge of that reputation, and you DO already play Arm. Now imagine someone who hasn't ever played it, but comes from the existing mudding community where mudschools really -are- a primary feature in shitty h&s's. And imagine them looking for a mud, and seeing that Arm has mudschool. And just like you - they come to the conclusion that mudschool = shitty H&S. So we'll attract people who play shitty H&Ss, and we'll drive off people who are trying to avoid shitty H&S's.

That's why I have a problem with anything resembling mudschool.

[Potaje]

Personally, as I have said before, nothing needs to change, except the attitude that new players need coddling. This is a more -grown up- mudd, its rough and tumble, filled with life's uncertainty. If you do not read the docs then thats is kind of your own fault, and the docs, as well as the GDB really tells one all they need to know to understand the game mentality, even up to joining clans.
I mean, Hey in real life you are not given a hand book, all the knowing your folks, community, friends and teachers would of given you in life is set in the docs. Read them, then make your character.. and drov, if your first few characters get taken in and murdered or what ever then use it as a growing point as a player. Sure it stings, sure your going to get upset at times, why have that taken away or dulled, it means that you are going to or do feel perhaps extending that into you next pc.

Consider it the mudd school of hard knox. The rest of us have for years, and others before us, and before them. In my humble opinion, things that change should accentuate not detract, the unknown, then surprise and uncertainty of the Zalanthan world is its charm. Embrace it for all its current glory, and in the long run, many characters later, you may be a better player for it.

[Malifaxis]

TL;DR this whole goddamn thread.  I made it to maybe half way down the first page, then saw Old Kank's fight with Lizzie, and said fuck it, I'm just posting.

So fuck it, I'm just posting.

What I'm about to say may fucking shock the living shit out of you...

We already have a mud school.

It's called the goddamn documentation.  When you read it, this magickal fucking thing happens... you understand shit.  No, no, stick with me here, I'm not just pulling your limb.  This shit works!!

If a new PC gets generated on a new account, an email should immediately be sent to that account giving a run down of all sorts of important shit.  Dwarves are bald, elves are dickheads, humans are fucktards who own everything, half giants are genius-level tacticians that can outmaneuver desert elv... oh wait, sorry, sticking with the docs, not actual play-reality.  Back to the topic.  The email should include not only basic information (you are illiterate, the nobility is genetically better than you, templars are the pope), but also a list of ACTIVE helpers and some of the best-of-the-best archived threads on the GDB.  It should include links as well to the thieves bible and all those other snazzy docs.  Lastly it should include quick run down descriptions of some of the more common beasts to each starting area (huge beetles, scrab, tembo, vestric, gortok) and links to the 'flora' and 'fauna' sections of the help files.

If you don't read the documentation, you deserve what you get until you do read the goddamn documentation.

Oh shit, my rant engine is spinning up!

One of the things that really helped me get settled in to the game were the mandatory no-play saturdays.  I fucking HATED that shit, but since I was hopelessly addicted, I read through the damn documentation front, back, and sideways.  I got so deep into the documentation's guts that I was chased off the website by an angry spouse.  I read so much, I eventually found shit that hadn't been written yet, and started doing that.  Now that we no longer have the update, we have no time for our addicted newbies to -need- to read the documentation... just to get a fix.  Why read the docs when they can just log in and kill/netsex/shop kadius until their wee little newbie eyeballs explode in a joygasm?

How do we make the newbies want to read the docs?  Fuck if I know, I got no ide... wait, just a sec.

Huh, sorry, there was something jammed up my ass.  Looked like a fortune cookie.  Here's what it says:

"How about, as a newbie perk, we allow them to take a web-based quiz of 20 to 50 questions of not-too-obscure but not-too-common information.  Shit you can find in the docs without digging too deeply.  If you complete this quiz with a 90% plus, you get the ability to play, ONCE, a water mage or a desert elf [Sun Runners only, ATV and RF are too oddball for newbs]... the two lowest impact of the first grouping of karma.  The quiz, when finished, would give a 'passphrase' for the application to try to speed the process up.  this passphrase could either be numeric, or something game related and memorable (which I think is the better option) like "Malifaxis is a total douche, but sometimes has good ideas.""

No serious game impact, no 'omg shit is expenzive' moment, and a bit of a taste of The Sweet Stuff by getting to play above your karmic caste rank.

Problem goddamn solved.

*flicks his spice-tube into a puddle of highly-explosive liquid, which ignites a nearby Kadian argosy, then walks off into the sunset flanked by four exceptionally well endowed women who drip with antici............. pation*

[Lizzie]

Sometimes, I want to kick Malifaxis in the nuts. Twice.
Sometimes, I wish we had rep points on this forum.

Today, in this thread, regarding his recent post, it's the latter of the two.

[Talia]

One thing that is really surprising to me, as a new Storyteller, is just how many newbies we do have who manage to get through the account setup and then actually generate characters for themselves through our admittedly cumbersome game interface for character creation (which, the truth is, a lot of veterans don't even navigate very well). For example, I just approved three newbie characters a few minutes ago--players on their first or second character.

We're losing a lot of them somewhere after character approval, in the game experience. I believe they come for the ARM experience and then simply do not find it, so they log out and never come back. And what I mean by ARM experience is involving roleplay.

What if, instead of focusing on what the code does or does not / could or could not do to help newbies, what if we focused on what each of us as players can do to help retain newbies? What can we each do to get newbies involved? Then, let's do those things.

[Thunkkin]

What if, instead of focusing on what the code does or does not / could or could not do to help newbies, what if we focused on what each of us as players can do to help retain newbies? What can we each do to get newbies involved? Then, let's do those things.

Let us start the game as the very lowest of the low level clan members in certain clans.  I remember trying Arm a few times over the years (first time in 1995) and the thing that always made me drift off was going through the misery of sitting in a tavern passing out from trying to contact a leader or coming up with stupid chit-chat trying to find a job.  If there was a way to dump a newbie into a clan instantly ... it could be good.  Or a nightmare.  But there's nothing like having your first Sarge chewing you out before some gith or shield-wall related-disaster to *BAMF* get you addicted.

[Spoon]

To address a single problem:

Arm is harsh, we all love harsh. One of the few rules states that people have every right to be mean. However, newbies stand out like sore thumbs. If people are luring them away to kill them, they are likely losing us potential players. Especially after they just went through the character creation process for the first time, and then got killed by a player pretending to help them. In any other instance, brilliant, but with an obviously new player it's shitty (and they are really, really obvious).

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the staff already kept tabs on this, but if not it would be good to perhaps investigate any first PC deaths by another player within a certain amount of time. Maybe drop them an email to check in, even. And slap the arsehole who killed them a bit, because there isn't really any excuse. Even if you are playing a homicidal maniac you could cut them an OOC break and merely maim and rob them.

[Talia]

Like I mentioned previously, Vanth's research into newbie retention shows that 85% of players who leave the game after a first character leave a living character. Not a dead one. Death and/or PKilling apparently isn't the issue. The issue is that new players don't get into the game.

[Spoon]

True enough, but the fact it does happen kinds of shocks me enough. It's not uncommon for new players to mention how their first character was lead away to find water for example, be killed, and post about it on the boards.

Edit: I did state I was addressing a single problem at the top of my post...

[Malifaxis]

On Armageddon, a lot of folks are closed lipped... because the world is harsh, and everyone's just waiting for a weakness to exploit.  By opening up, it allows exploitation. 

I've gone out of my way to welcome newbies, and I've seen most of those newbies stay... especially the ones I took time to welcome in character, and show around in character.  Taking someone on a walking tour of Allanak only takes maybe thirty or fourty minutes, with some deviation for long questions, and can really, really help someone settle into the feel of armageddon.  It's not that much time to take to help a new player get situated.

If we all made that effort, we'd double our playerbase in a year.  Gay-rohn-teed.

[Talia]

True enough, but the fact it does happen kinds of shocks me enough. It's not uncommon for new players to mention how their first character was lead away to find water for example, be killed, and post about it on the boards.

Edit: I did state I was addressing a single problem at the top of my post...

You're right, you did state that, and you're not wrong...popping obvious newbs is simply bad form and definitely a hindrance of some magnitude to new-player retention.

If we all made that effort, we'd double our playerbase in a year.  Gay-rohn-teed.

My thoughts too.

[Potaje]

 Had a thought, seemed to argumentative so I have removed it.

[HavokBlue]

When I started playing a couple months ago, I apped a character in a newb-unfriendly area, read the docs while I waited for a response, logged in excited, and died in 8 minutes to an NPC/mudlet crash without ever encountering another player.

So I went and re-apped almost the same character in my newbishness, and wandered around doing silly newb things until I ran into a player who seemed to realize I was new. The five minutes he spent pointing things out to me kept my character alive for a decent amount of time, long enough to realize how awesome Arm is.

So yeah, when you see new people, think about what you'd be doing in their situation, and what would remedy it.