Roles that people have trouble with

[shadeoux]

Everyone likes the same scimitar, the same axe, the same breastplate, etc. etc.  Because they know they work.

To make things interesting, a merchant with access to tons of items needs to try and sell things people don't normally buy.  People flip their shit when the see an uncommon club.  I think the problem is selling is fun at first, gets mundane eventually, and probably a bit boring after you give a super-wicked sales pitch for item #3345.  By that point, they probably have so much money they can ignore people, then people start bitching, then the merchant retires -- the cycle continues.

Otherwise it's a very in-depth/interesting role with lots of room for SEKRET PLOTZ and the like.  The problem is, unlike grebbers, when the character stops doing the grind, it affects other people.

I don't think this is something that can be fixed, it just takes a special person with a special personality to play the role.  If you play a merchant, and find you don't really like it, just store.  Save yourself the headache.

It's a niche role, most definitely.

The one thing I think that I see as a downfall all around is yes there are several NEAT and very Interesting items in the game already, that are just sitting there now, and since probably most of the playerbase has not played the game ten plus years, they are unaware they exist. Perhaps the GMH start revitalizing these items make them craftable so that gives the merchants something to aspire for as well, and have the items ON HAND so they can see them or simply a database available ONLY to merchants listing items and materials and have it be "another merchant" telling and teaching them how to make these items.

The one biggest thing I hate is yes, that everyone has the same armor and same weapons depending on slight variances, by giving the merchants more ability to research and make the items easier it will no doubt a) decrease wait times for orders, b) Let merchants mess around and make items rarely seen and make houses a shit ton of sids c) If the item in question isn't craftable, have them post it in the guild forums of the GMH for other players to design or the merchant themselves and submit the recipe vie request tool to get it put in.

There are probably thousands upon thousands of items out there no one has seen or heard that would be neat as hell to play with and past and current Players/Staff spent time on making that are no longer part of the game because no one knows they exist.

[Marauder Moe]

Maybe the whole concept of "ordering" things from PC GMH merchants should be abolished.

They should be given an inventory of items (made by vNPC crafters), but they have no control over it.  No more asking the staff to load a particular item (or worse: search the database for something that matches the customer's vague desires).  This inventory would change over time either randomly or by staff manipulation.

Anything special outside that inventory must be crafted by PCs (master or otherwise).

I think this might really turn GMH merchants into real merchants rather than just customer service reps.  (That is, their job becomes "selling" rather than "taking orders".)

[shadeoux]

Maybe the whole concept of "ordering" things from PC GMH merchants should be abolished.

I like the ability of introducing new items into the game, thats why we play to make things that affect the world around us. But when a merchants sole job is to create and make for others it turns into a full time job. I know I am guilty of this sending merchants/agents/players into a frenzy with a vague desc of what I want, and thats it, and looking back I feel so bad.

Perhaps introduce an NPC/broker that can create new items for players. Where players can pay one thousand sids or whatever, and have the item created from the "normal" items, that most of the world has access to. put a timer where the players account can not get anything made for a IG year, notice I said account not just the Character.

Have it similar to the character application tool when creating the desc's materials time and from that have the imms approve/make it, and when its ready, have a "runner" distribute it ONLY when they are inside the city. Like a pizza delivery guy. Example below

Broker list:
a) Armor
b) Clothing
c) Weapons
d) Food/misc items

What would you like?
(Player presses A)

Broker says "Ahh some armor, well we can certainly accommodate that, what did you have in mind"

a) Material
b) Wear Location
c) Sdesc
d) Mdesc
e) Special Qualities
x) done
Broker says "Where would you like to start?"

(Player Presses e)

Broker says "Ahh something special, I do like that, it may cost a bit more and take a bit more time but I think we can work something out"

This is where the Board would pop up, or writing utensil where you can notate special qualities or set it a certain house only or something along that lines. Stuff the staff can read and work on if applicable.

(player presses x)

Broker says "Well this item will take 65 days to make, and will cost you 1400 obsidian, we request you pay for it in advance too, is that alright?"
(Have the obsidian taken from the bank or the PC's inventory at time of acceptance"

a) Yes, create this item
b) No do not create
c) Save the item - Ill be back to pay

(player presses c) Player returns four RL days later, and pays for it to get created.

What do you all think, alot of coding for sure. But the ability to have items made without bogging down merchants would be greatly appreciated so they can go around selling stuff.

[Marauder Moe]

I'm not suggesting we do away with the master crafting system, where players already can add new items to the game (but at a very slow rate).

I'm suggesting that PC GMH merchants be given an inventory, and if a PC wants something beyond that inventory, either it must be crafted by a PC or they are simply told "No, I don't have anything like that."

Maybe if the customer is a very important person, like a senior noble, or if they can provide a significant bribe/fee in addition to the item cost, then the PC merchant can place a special order with the clan staff.  Junior nobility, blue robes (and northern equivalents), and lower have to just settle for something else, though.

[jriley]

Maybe the whole concept of "ordering" things from PC GMH merchants should be abolished.

They should be given an inventory of items (made by vNPC crafters), but they have no control over it.  No more asking the staff to load a particular item (or worse: search the database for something that matches the customer's vague desires).  This inventory would change over time either randomly or by staff manipulation.

Anything special outside that inventory must be crafted by PCs (master or otherwise).

I think this might really turn GMH merchants into real merchants rather than just customer service reps.  (That is, their job becomes "selling" rather than "taking orders".)

This idea is controvertial.  But not bad, really.  I think it could help things. 

[Armaddict]

Maybe the whole concept of "ordering" things from PC GMH merchants should be abolished.

They should be given an inventory of items (made by vNPC crafters), but they have no control over it.  No more asking the staff to load a particular item (or worse: search the database for something that matches the customer's vague desires).  This inventory would change over time either randomly or by staff manipulation.

Anything special outside that inventory must be crafted by PCs (master or otherwise).

I think this might really turn GMH merchants into real merchants rather than just customer service reps.  (That is, their job becomes "selling" rather than "taking orders".)

This idea is controvertial.  But not bad, really.  I think it could help things. 

Not very viable when you consider how many contracts they have to be the sole maker of a clan's equipment.

[Marauder Moe]

Clan equipment would be a different matter.  (Though I'd think that such things would be handled higher up than your average PC administrator, and they ought to be loaded by the clan's staff rather than having to be purchased/sold by PCs.)


The problem, as people are pointing out, is that "orders" are slow, time-consuming, and boring.  There's maybe some room to negotiate on the price, but there's no salesmanship involved.  No challenge, just work.

Now, if you're given a set number of items and told that your livelihood (at least partly) depends on getting them sold, that seems like an interesting and fun challenge to me.

[Armaddict]

(Though I'd think that such things would be handled higher up than your average PC administrator, and they ought to be loaded by the clan's staff rather than having to be purchased/sold by PCs.)

That's how it used to be, I believe.  It was changed.  Likely to foster more IC politics, give more jobs to do, and to encourage monitoring of spending involved.

I may be wrong on that, though.

[Aaron Goulet]

I enjoy playing independent merchants, personally.  I see it as playing Armageddon on 'hard' mode; when your only coded power comes from the skills to make coin, you start to find creative ways of using it to get things done (usually involving other people).  Merchants can be good plot starters in the independent community, if you don't mind putting forth some effort.  In fact, just posting this makes me want to play another indie merchant...

I've never played a clanned merchant, but I can definitely see how it could be taxing.

[AI Fashion and Swag]

I've played a GMH merchanty role before where the imm who was running the clan came up with a master-list of the items that were available. (Minus the super rare ones.) Along with prices and stuff like that. It was incredibly useful. I wish all merchanty roles had that.

[Dar]

That's why I loved Akai Sjir. 90% of all of their goods that they sold involved sales. Trust me, coming to a tavern and pushing your goods is so much more gratifying then having a guy come to you and order the same old sword or same old desert gear.

[Fathi]

To make things interesting, a merchant with access to tons of items needs to try and sell things people don't normally buy.

This is the problem with the current system of not allowing the players of merchant PCs to view the databases of available items. When I played a Salarri merchant back in 2007-2008, I had a pretty miniscule list of known items and so I had to request the same suits of armour over and over. Which sucked. If the players don't know the sdesc of an item beforehand, it's hard to get it loaded into the game.

People would come to me and say, "Hey, I want a suit of armour that's not too heavy and preferably made of leather!" and that would automatically narrow their potential selection down to a grand total of two. Congrats, you can have the black stuff or the brown stuff that every PC with < exceptional strength has.

One of the things I'm most excited about for Arm 2 is the potential of having everything be craftable by the PCs doing the selling.

[FightClub]

One of the things I'm most excited about for Arm 2 is the potential of having everything be craftable by the PCs doing the selling.

Arm 2, what's that?

[nihilist]

This is a derail, but I had an idea..

What if all of the items in the game DIDN'T HAVE STAT MODIFIERS?!
Then people would stop whining about the "game" aspect of Armageddon and we'd get none of that nonsense of a million Amoses all equipping the same crap because it's +5 STR.
Then, for once, we'd all focus on the intrinsic value of the item, how it looks, what it symbolizes, NOT THE DAMN +7 AGI.

Solely my opinion of course. I see Armageddon as an interactive novel.. not so much a game.

[bcw81]

This is a derail, but I had an idea..

What if all of the items in the game DIDN'T HAVE STAT MODIFIERS?!
Then people would stop whining about the "game" aspect of Armageddon and we'd get none of that nonsense of a million Amoses all equipping the same crap because it's +5 STR.
Then, for once, we'd all focus on the intrinsic value of the item, how it looks, what it symbolizes, NOT THE DAMN +7 AGI.

Solely my opinion of course. I see Armageddon as an interactive novel.. not so much a game.

RTW thread. This should be in it.

[Qeynos]

This is a derail, but I had an idea..

What if all of the items in the game DIDN'T HAVE STAT MODIFIERS?!
Then people would stop whining about the "game" aspect of Armageddon and we'd get none of that nonsense of a million Amoses all equipping the same crap because it's +5 STR.
Then, for once, we'd all focus on the intrinsic value of the item, how it looks, what it symbolizes, NOT THE DAMN +7 AGI.

Solely my opinion of course. I see Armageddon as an interactive novel.. not so much a game.

But... items generally don't have +stats. If you're implying armor and damage values, it would be pretty dumb if there was no difference between reinforced sandcloth and silt-horror plate, or a chipped dagger and a battle-axe.

[jriley]

This is a derail, but I had an idea..

What if all of the items in the game DIDN'T HAVE STAT MODIFIERS?!
Then people would stop whining about the "game" aspect of Armageddon and we'd get none of that nonsense of a million Amoses all equipping the same crap because it's +5 STR.
Then, for once, we'd all focus on the intrinsic value of the item, how it looks, what it symbolizes, NOT THE DAMN +7 AGI.

Solely my opinion of course. I see Armageddon as an interactive novel.. not so much a game.

This is actually progressive.  The irony is that most of us here at the GDB will post five paragraph rants about how badly we hate twinks and how dangerous they are to the game, but then all these same people will be seen in game wandering around with the same mega-bonus equipment practicing their combat skills for hours upon end. 

It's kind of schizophrenic.  The people who hate twinks the most and who scream the loudest about it, are ironically the worst twinks.  They really really hate to be beaten at their own game.

Yeah, your idea is good.  The way to cut twinking is to simplify combat, travel and commerce as much as possible until there's no perceived value in wielding a bone sword over an obsidian sword.

[Talia]

*waves a Jedi hand* You don't need to know about object stats.

Also, let's stay on topic? Thanks.

[KankWhisperer]

The role I have the most trouble with is being an real evil guy. I , the player, just have so much empathy (or that's how I see it) for the poor and downtrodden that I really can't get into taking advantage of them. I would be the worst templar ever seen.

[HavokBlue]

I don't really have any trouble being an evil asshat in-game, but then I read GDB threads a month or two later and feel really bad.

[Riev]

I don't really have any trouble being an evil asshat in-game, but then I read GDB threads a month or two later and feel really bad.

If you aren't reading posts THAT DAY on the GDB, you aren't being evil enough.

[Reiloth]

The role I have the most trouble with is being an real evil guy. I , the player, just have so much empathy (or that's how I see it) for the poor and downtrodden that I really can't get into taking advantage of them. I would be the worst templar ever seen.

I've played a range of evil, extremely powerful characters...And I have to say, it became an entirely different game for me. I actually, as the player and character, believed I was doing what was BEST for people most of the time. It only happened after the death of said characters that I realized how truly evil they were almost empirically.

Basically, I mean to say, if you are playing a character that you think is really evil, you're doing it wrong. If you're playing a character that OTHER people think is super twisted and evil, and you don't know what they're talking about, you're doing it right.

[jstorrie]

My advice is twofold. First, don't conflate being evil with just being an asshole. Many PC templars fall prey to this one, and are just inconsequential jerks until they retire. Be careful.

Second, figure out how you're evil–like, in what way? What makes your PC so bad? Is he greedy? Selfish? Callous? Spiteful? Malevolent? Pick a few scoops of specific flavours before you make your Villain Sundae.

[Anaiah]

The best type of evil: Ends justify the means.

Full license to be a monster... you know, for their own good.

[Reiloth]

The best type of evil: Ends justify the means.

Full license to be a monster... you know, for their own good.

when you actually are a monster it becomes a little too black and white.