Roles that people have trouble with

[Scarecrow]

I'm very new and all, and no expert, but just commenting on half-giants here for a second.

I'm not totally sure how one is supposed to play a half-giant, but all the ones I've met so far have been very entertaining and enjoyable. They are fun to be around, with their combination of "tear you to pieces like a rag-doll in seconds" strength and usually their personality or manner of speaking in a way that totally conflicts with said power.
However, I would really, really like to see a hideously ugly, bald, nasty dung-smear of a half-giant roaming the lands, with crazy eyes and a taste for flesh and slaughter. Imagine how frightening (and kinda cool) it would be having a notorious, monstrous half-giant out there, stalking the wastes. A real evil lump of Zalanthan biggie humanoid.
Anyway, umm, oh yeah, I like half-giants so far. But I'm no expert.
(and if my post inspires someone to make said man-eating homicidal waste stalker half-giant, please don't eat me. Keep me as a pet, I am very loyal!)

[FightClub]

However, I would really, really like to see a hideously ugly, bald, nasty dung-smear of a half-giant roaming the lands, with crazy eyes and a taste for flesh and slaughter. Imagine how frightening (and kinda cool) it would be having a notorious, monstrous half-giant out there, stalking the wastes. A real evil lump of Zalanthan biggie humanoid.

We've had similar giants in game, raiders mostly, never dung-smeared, or bald to my recollection, but it's not like it mattered. All you would see is
The behemoth strong muscled half-giant enters from the west.
The behemoth strong muscled half giant's bash sends you sprawling!

The behemoth strong muscled half giant's slash strikes you in the head for horrendous damage.

Mantis skull. Needless to say, most people felt a bit cheated by such experiences, and it raised quite a bit of controversy,  badass or not.

[Spoon]

They're generally smeared with silt-horror plate instead of dung.

[FightClub]

They're generally smeared with silt-horror plate instead of dung.

Lol, until they discover how uneconomical it is to repair silt horror armor based upon their projected newbie raiding chart. They then opt for desert, or scrub cammos, because half-giant one-shot warlords don't need armor anyway.

[spicemustflow]

I'm very new and all, and no expert, but just commenting on half-giants here for a second.

I'm not totally sure how one is supposed to play a half-giant, but all the ones I've met so far have been very entertaining and enjoyable. They are fun to be around, with their combination of "tear you to pieces like a rag-doll in seconds" strength and usually their personality or manner of speaking in a way that totally conflicts with said power.
However, I would really, really like to see a hideously ugly, bald, nasty dung-smear of a half-giant roaming the lands, with crazy eyes and a taste for flesh and slaughter. Imagine how frightening (and kinda cool) it would be having a notorious, monstrous half-giant out there, stalking the wastes. A real evil lump of Zalanthan biggie humanoid.
Anyway, umm, oh yeah, I like half-giants so far. But I'm no expert.
(and if my post inspires someone to make said man-eating homicidal waste stalker half-giant, please don't eat me. Keep me as a pet, I am very loyal!)

No, they're not fun to be around, especially with their "tear you pieces" strength. If the player feels a bit dickish, you're done. A long time ago, I had such a bad experience with one of them, that the hate is still strong. Since then, I saw several HGs, most were ok, one was fucking brilliant. I think they should have higher karma requirement.

[Nahara]

Went from troublesome roles to dental hygiene. Nice.

Dental hygiene -is- a troublesome role. 

Half-giants, most of my interactions are fairly just brushes, but if I -do- interact with them in depth, I realize how dangerous their psyche can be, however kind in nature to start with, how much it is possible to care about them and fear for them in a way that would be odd on most any other race, how much depth is actually in these characters. So, yeah. Good experiences, they get me involved. 

[Prodikus]

I played a character with teeth so bad they were mentioned in the sdesc, and was regularly mocked by every f-me to cross my path. It was great: I assumed that, with Zalanthian dental care being what it is, they were not attacking me because of my teeth, which were average or a bit below average for my class; I therefore determined that they had a secret reason for mocking me, and dedicated my energies to undermining and destroy them.

If the sdesc is commonly understood to be the most notable characteristics of a character, and according to an old thread roughly half the playerbase doesn't read most mdescs anyway, I think it's fair to say that it was assumed (by and large) that they were worse than they were, if they were notably bad (notable enough to make it into the first impression people get from the character, the sdesc).

I see your point, and agree that most assumed they were below average, though that wasn't entirely the intention. But I maintain that most low-class Zalanthians would not be winning a beauty contests anytime soon, and one would most likely take exception if another started throwing stones in their shared glass house. I thought it was a good way of creating sustained, low-level conflict: even if they're flawlessly beautiful, a grebber should expect trouble for mocking someone's physical appearance, when the vast majority of (v)NPCs peers are likely either malnourished or have some sort of physical deformity. Different classes have different standards of acceptable appearance; drawing attention to defects, even exceptional ones, can be problematic, in certain social settings.

Edited because it began with a derail on sdescs. Oops!

[Dar]

I find mages to be a difficult role. From the intense spammage required, to the need to explain the inner mechanics of how these things all work, for some of the roles.

I do enjoy the whole hatred/fear thing. Nothing is more fun then making a magicker who makes everyone around them nervous not with spellcasting and the coded power, but the sheer cantrips and behavior.

[spawnloser]

Dar, let me ask you this... isn't a warrior just as spammy a role as a magicker?  If you want to branch, you have to practice skills either way, which means crap scrolling past your screen.  It's just the nature of how that scroll is created, like by which commands/situations.  The same goes for Merchants.  "Oh god!  I'm playing a magicker, so I must have to spam cast to branch!"  "Oh god!  I'm playing a merchant, so I must have to spam craft to branch!"  "Oh god!  I'm playing a warrior, so I must have to spam combat to branch!"  Each of those statements has exactly the same amount of truth as the next... which is to say, not much.

[Armaddict]

Dar, let me ask you this... isn't a warrior just as spammy a role as a magicker?  If you want to branch, you have to practice skills either way, which means crap scrolling past your screen.  It's just the nature of how that scroll is created, like by which commands/situations.  The same goes for Merchants.  "Oh god!  I'm playing a magicker, so I must have to spam cast to branch!"  "Oh god!  I'm playing a merchant, so I must have to spam craft to branch!"  "Oh god!  I'm playing a warrior, so I must have to spam combat to branch!"  Each of those statements has exactly the same amount of truth as the next... which is to say, not much.

This is actually very true.  The reason people see them as different is because they generally happen with interaction, while mages, as a nature of the role, often do it in solitude.  Except merchants, where I imagine it's far more similar than people would admit.  I don't know, as I've never played a merchant.

[jstorrie]

Each of those statements has exactly the same amount of truth as the next... which is to say, not much.

Well, aside from the fact that skill progression and spell progression seem to work in two completely different ways.

[brytta.leofa]

Each of those statements has exactly the same amount of truth as the next... which is to say, not much.

Well, aside from the fact that skill progression and spell progression seem to work in two completely different ways.

I offer a dry retort that suggests that I have secret information about the magick system at which, because of The Rules, I can only hint.  This comment serves only to make me look like a poser and further muddy the water about the actual situation.

[Is Friday]

Merchants, hands down. Some people are just plain retarded about IC restrictions that merchants usually have no control over.

Call it IC, call it being a douche OOC, call it whatever you want... it's annoying playing that merchant that is getting black-balled in society because Lord Fancypants wants trousers with golden tregil trim tomorrow, no questions asked.

[spawnloser]

I will maintain that spells are skills and follow the same rules for progression.

[Qzzrbl]

I will maintain that spells are skills and follow the same rules for progression.

Pretty much.

Just as with any skill, it's repetition, failure, skill-up, branch.

[Dar]

I dont know.

Feels absolutely different to me. Perhaps it is simply a matter of fleshing things out. When warriors, merchants, and whomever practice. It is much easier to bring life to their character while they're doing it. I rarely if ever mindlessly skill spam in those roles, you always are capable of improving skills while trying to do something else. You're not practicing hunt, you're hunting down prey. You're not spamming dual wield, you're following a schedule. You're not practicing hide/sneak, it is simply a smart thing to do to move this way in the rinth. You're not spamming fletchery, you're trying to make a set to provide to your hunter, or simply ... trying to make enough to sell to buy food and materials.

While as a mage, you sit down and you practice for the sole goal of becoming better at this particular spell. Which is great, which is fine. And you've emoted it all out, and thought it through, and felt it through ... but that was ages ago and now it's just plain .. spam.

[Qzzrbl]

I dont know.

Feels absolutely different to me. Perhaps it is simply a matter of fleshing things out. When warriors, merchants, and whomever practice. It is much easier to bring life to their character while they're doing it. I rarely if ever mindlessly skill spam in those roles, you always are capable of improving skills while trying to do something else. You're not practicing hunt, you're hunting down prey. You're not spamming dual wield, you're following a schedule. You're not practicing hide/sneak, it is simply a smart thing to do to move this way in the rinth. You're not spamming fletchery, you're trying to make a set to provide to your hunter, or simply ... trying to make enough to sell to buy food and materials.

While as a mage, you sit down and you practice for the sole goal of becoming better at this particular spell. Which is great, which is fine. And you've emoted it all out, and thought it through, and felt it through ... but that was ages ago and now it's just plain .. spam.

Perhaps you need a new take on it.

I've only played like.... Two magickers. And they probably only lasted about an hour between 'em....

And I didn't have a goal or -anything- for whatever spells I casted.

BUT!

I could easily see there being a way to not get stuck spamming.....

Got a viv? Don't cast "lulzmakewater" until you get thirsty.

Got a krathi? Don't cast "setthatbitchonfire" until you wanna set a bitch on fire.

Just don't use "nil" ever.

Sure.... You'll probably have trouble doing this as a combat 'gicker, but it's definitely doable. Just treat your combat spells like "backstab".

The only way to get 'em up is to use 'em against stuff. x]

[Scarecrow]

Again, I'm just new, so I can only draw on my own experiences so far, which have thankfully been positive. I can see though how the almost insta-death HG raider attack could  be very aggravating, and not fun at all.

[Aaron Goulet]

Again, I'm just new, so I can only draw on my own experiences so far, which have thankfully been positive. I can see though how the almost insta-death HG raider attack could  be very aggravating, and not fun at all.

Speaking from first-hand experience, it isn't.  It's like getting killed by an NPC, only you know for a fact that it's actually a player who has been entrusted with a decent amount of karma...  You kind of expect more than getting spam-bashed and killed without warning or apparent reason.

Such statements have usually lead to cyclical debates on whether or not such behavior is correct; I'm not saying that it isn't correct, or that it's poor play...  I'm just saying that, from the recipient's point of view, it is both frustrating and disappointing.

To be fair, it has only happened to me once in my entire Armageddon career, and I have seen many well-played half-giants over the years.

[Scarecrow]

In context, I suppose the biggest downer would not really be the fact the HG killed you like that, but actually that your character (who you may really like, and like his connections too) Is all of a sudden dead before you can react. I guess though plenty of things can do that to you in Armageddon, not just a HG raider attack.

[brytta.leofa]

Feels absolutely different to me. Perhaps it is simply a matter of fleshing things out. When warriors, merchants, and whomever practice. It is much easier to bring life to their character while they're doing it.

What bothers me about mages is that those first few days of practice, until you get your survivability worked up, are usually a solo business. And, look, I'll follow a reasonable schedule (not cast for two days straight, etc.), and I'll drop some emotes, but I can't bring myself to put a ton of effort into what I'm doing, probably by myself, in a locked room.

Once you can survive in the Outside, you can actually run around and use your spells rather than just "practicing" them.  And obviously that survivable point happens far quicker for a wiggler than the average mundane.  It's just hard to stick through that initial, cheap-feeling grind.

[spawnloser]

All of us have been students.  When you go to school, are you grinding your Literature skill?  How about your Biology skill?  Magickers are more cerebral characters and require you to think like a scholar and play like a scholar, for it not to feel like cheap grinding.

[Marauder Moe]

All of us have been students.  When you go to school, are you grinding your Literature skill?  How about your Biology skill?  Magickers are more cerebral characters and require you to think like a scholar and play like a scholar, for it not to feel like cheap grinding.

+1

Emoting while practicing spells gets extremely boring very quick.  I found myself instead using thinks to contemplate the nature of magick and all during such sessions.

[Synthesis]

Your magickers will be much more satisfying if you play them like the dumb gits most Zalanthans are, but with the ability blast motherfuckers into pieces.  Will you die young? Maybe, but you'll be enjoying every last minute of it.

[Feco]

Merchants, hands down. Some people are just plain retarded about IC restrictions that merchants usually have no control over.

Call it IC, call it being a douche OOC, call it whatever you want... it's annoying playing that merchant that is getting black-balled in society because Lord Fancypants wants trousers with golden tregil trim tomorrow, no questions asked.

This.

I've observed the role is also very people dependent and may require tons of OOC time to manage.