The Dwarf Says to You: "Ningflot Xorbereb Xyxan Ooo!&am

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Hi all. This is a thread about accents. Well, moreso, it's a thread of me whining, but all the threads I start are like that, so it should be nothing new.

I have a real issue with accents, sometimes. Only sometimes, though. If some one wants to substiute 'I' for 'Ah', or 'them' for ' 'em', or 'they' for 'zey', that's fine with me... But I think it can really be taken too far some times. I'm going to state dwarves as a specific example, as 'over-accenting' seems rampant with this race...

A lot of the players of dwarves seem to think they need to put in ridiculously complicated accents, with lots of random x's and b's for good measure. The end result are strings of syllables that, in my opinion, sound nothing like the words that were intended to be. Recently, I've been forced to work with a number of dwarves that implement such impossible-to-read accents, that I have began unconciously avoiding them. They alter their character's speech to the point where, I as a player, have no clue what they are saying, and my poor character can only smile and nod.

I want to know, is this condescending to avoid characters simply because I find their accents irratating? But, on the other hand, am I required to sit and in a tavern and try and decode dwarven speech, when I could just as easily ignore them...?

Sure, I could think up a few IC reasons for my character not responding properly to a dwarf... Maybe he's prejudiced against them? Well, sure, that makes sense... But's lets say I have an old character, who has never had a real big issue with dwarves before? Or I'm working for a dwarf that demands respect? Or, some one might suggest, perhaps my character doesn't understand dwarven speech, because he doesn't understand the accent. This is workable, I suppose... But how come I can talk comfortably with dwarf A (who's player limits their accenting) but not dwarf B (who's player seems fond the 'x' button on their keyboard...).

I hope I'm not coming off as too whiny, but I'd like to request that some players try and tone down their accenting, even if it's just to aid the comprehension of idiots like myself.  :oops:

[Plazgoth]

This post makes me laugh, I am sorry. Have you considered that the dwarfs do not speak sirihish that well, so that is why you don't understand them?

[Cenghiz]

Yes... When someone overaccents his speech, just reply "Speak in human language... I don't understand you." This is gonna make it.
But if it's your sergeant and you're a dwarf too? Auch!

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Yeah, I know, it's supposed to be a little humorous, and, really, is nothing more than whining because of a few characters my character is forced to be in contact with...

Anyways, I realize these players interpret that dwarves struggle with the sirihish language, but I'm asking, OOCly, that people try and be considerate to the lazy and slow-witted, like me. I -seriously- cannot understand some of these dwarf PCs... All I'm asking is for the to shave off the occasional 'x' and 'l'.

If there are two things that would deter me from playing a dwarf, it would be a) always having to keep his focus in mind and b) having to remember my 'dwarf translations' for everything (okay, when I want to say, 'me', i need to remember to actually type 'xree'... Yeah, that's good!)

[Dracul]

Just don't talk to dwarves you know...make fun of them...insult them, shit your pants and spam fell when three more show up and they all have axes...you know, just improvise if you can't communicate.

[X-D]

Still seems more likly that they just cannot speak sirihish very well yet code wise.

But on the note of accents, I know of at least three current human pc's who have been around a while that I can never understand do to the accent's they use.

But Oh well, then my pc just emotes alot or uses the way, that does not work sometimes they will have an accent over the way, always wanted to go ooc and say How can you have an accent on thoughts?

[Bestatte]

There's a human PC whose primary language (as far as I know) is sirihish, and I can't understand most of what he/she/it says. Sometimes I make a game of it and try to decipher the speech. Other times I'm in no mood or the current situation doesn't allow for the time it takes to figure it out. In those cases, I find a reason to walk away, and then walk away.

From an IC perspective, I assume the person has a serious speech impediment. From an OOC perspective it annoys me no end because the person CAN make their character comprehendable and chooses not to.

[5 day lifespan]

As one of the two problems that 5DMW is having, Ill just have to inform you that A: niether of us is using x's, the code puts them there because thats what happens when you arent good at a language.  You should see what you guys have been saying to ME.  Krath forbid I decide "Hey want a drink" sounds like "Your mom's got hair" one day, then itll be the doom for you.
B: Im sorry about the accents.  I can only tell you that as our language skill improves, your understanding will as well.  I am not going to sacrifice my role play just to be better understood.  That wasnt meant to be mean, just to let you know.  People talk about ways to handicap themselves for the sake of roleplay all the time.  Sadly, this is my way.  In a few days my character will be five and youll understand me just fine.  Then I will die again and make a new character.  

If its any consolation, Im not doing the faux scottish accent thing like every other dwarf Ive ever seen.

5DL

PS I WANT AN URGROSH!  (goes to submit the weapon now)

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Wait... Those accents are coded? Well, that changes everything, I guess...

Great, now I have to whine on the Code Discussion Board...  :roll:  

[gfair]

I think what 5DL is trying to say is that everyone seems to accent differently, there is no concensus on how to accent, and this complicates things trmendously.  You get some people that speak and try to spell everything, use precise grammar, and be highly readable.  The other extreme is people who put an apostrophe in and five words in a row, making it impossible for people to understand.

So yes, I understand the reasoning - you may detest having to speak to people who simply do not communicate through speech well.

But what can be done?  Unless the staff says we shouldn't put accent in our speech because no two people speak the same, we're going to see this continue.

Just gotta live with it, 5DL, maybe tell them to speak clearer IC to try and pass on the message.

[Bestatte]

If I remember right (and I probably don't since I've never played a dwarf and only skimmed over the language helpfiles), dwarves don't come already speaking sirihish. They show up out of the character generator speaking Mirukkim (or however it's spelled). They have to -learn- sirihish, which takes quite a long time before they'd be totally fluent in it without your seeing any trace of a foreign code.

It's the same as when you learn Bendune, and everyone sounds like gibberish even though the language shows up on your skills list. You also sound like gibberish to them, until you become fluent.

I hope that helps!

[creeper386]

A dwarf's starting sirihish is WAY worse then an elves. If you start in the major cities I know you start with sirihish, but it's really bad. And your better off communicated through dwarves that are already good at it untill you get better by hearing other people speak sirihish. Listen works WONDERs for learning languages by the way. You hear alot of stuff that way.

Well... thats about it. I say let people have they accents, if you can't understand them. Thats completely IC and not an OOC thing. If your a dwarf and can't understand them? So? I know there are plenty of humans speaking english that I can't understand very well. They can be from a different region... Could be speaking an older/newer dialect, blah blah blah. The list goes on, either way, it's still an IC thing.


Creeper

[gfair]

Thats completely IC and not an OOC thing. If your a dwarf and can't understand them? So? I know there are plenty of humans speaking english that I can't understand very well. They can be from a different region... Could be speaking an older/newer dialect, blah blah blah. The list goes on, either way, it's still an IC thing.

I don't know who's post this was in response to, but there are huge differences between accents in the real world, and accents in the game.  In the real world, it is possible to declare with all confidence which country a person comes from by their accent, because accents are homogeneous on a national scale in all but the largest countries.

And that's the big difference between accents in real life, and accents in the game.  In the game, you can't tell where anyone is from by the accent that comes through in speech. You can tell from where they are by the accent that describes their sirihish - northerner, southerner, rinthi, etc.

But on top of those revealed accents, people add their own to speech, and no two people have the same accent.  And in some cases, it is hands-down impossible to understand what a person is saying.  Further, you run into the trouble where people accent their speech despite speaking to people with the same accent.  Australians don't hear an accent when they speak, nor does anyone from any other english-speeking nation.  But in game, a lot of people don't differentiate, they use the speech accent on all, when realistically they should only be using it on people from out of town.

But this is all an opinion, of course.

[John]

Australians don't hear an accent when they speak

Actually, whenever I listen to Australians on American shows or American movies they always have an accent. It's quite bizarre :roll:

[creeper386]

A person speaking the same language, in the same country, less then a hundred miles apart can EASIELY have completely different accents. People from the middle of the city compared to the suburbs have different "accents" even people with varying degrees of speech impediments can be considered having "accent"s as what is being complained about here.

It changes nothing. It's still an IC thing. If you character can't understand them. Thats IC... As in, In Character, in the Game, not an OOC concern. You could be a dwarf speaking to another dwarf and have COMPLETELY different accents, or perhaps the dwarf that your speaking has some speech impediment that makes it so he's completely uncomprehendable... It's still IC. If people want to have their characters be uncomprehendable thats there own concern.

On another mud I started a character that was a mute, it wasn't a common thing before, and spawned a few more mutes because I proved it wasn't THAT hard. Well people started complaining on the OOC forum of people using emoted gestures and drawings to talk to others, because it was difficult to understand... Who gives a flying FUCK! It's IC, if you can't understand it there is a good chance you CAN'T understand it. I do know that in big cities... Even before you get to the suburbs different sections of the city have different accents... When you include a good rate of genetic mutations, different races... Ritual Scarrings or brutal beatings... Birth deformations... it can make for difficult communication... Add to that the people having difficulties with said languages... Blah blah blah... SHRUG.

IOWs... Not much reason to bitch or whine OOCily, it's an IC thing. Deal with it there.

Creeper

[Cuusardo]

I've encountered PCs with really thick, hard to understand accents.  I just RP it out as such.  *shrug*

[EvilRoeSlade]

Are you volunteering to write an accent document Gfair? ;P  By all means, go ahead and do so, then E-mail it to the mud for review.  I'd do it myself, but I have no talent for a task such as that.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Oh my! I must look like a real dick right now... Creeper, my goodness!

I was confused... I've never picked up a new language with any of my characters, and didn't realize that there was a CODE that messed up speech. That was my issue. If a character wishes to add accents, that's fine with me. I just thought it was some sort of crazy fad going around to have dwarves willingly incomprehendible... But now that I know all the random letters are -code- based, well, then I can easily forgive the occasional mute or accented character.

More power to them, so long as it doesn't explode into a city of people going: "Goprardrinagar flibinahibbinaorbinnanirbinna jorklesh forblex monkaresh."

[Cuusardo]

It's even funnier when you just pick up a language and are really bad at it, then try to speak it to someone who's fluent in it.  

[Gunslinger]

FDMW, this was easily the funniest post I've ever read on this board. Especially since I'm currently playing a dwarf with bad Sirihish. Even though I personally believe it is great roleplaying to splice Xs, Zs and the symbol for cubed into words such as "and" and "I."

[gfair]

A person speaking the same language, in the same country, less then a hundred miles apart can EASIELY have completely different accents.

Yeah, you're right Creeper.  I wasn't thinking right when I sent this in.  What I meant to say was, accents aggregate on a regional basis - within a city, the "burbs" are a distinct region from the urban region.  People who are "born and raised" in a region adopt that region's accent.

Rather, the point I was trying to make, is that two people from the same region both sound the same if they've grown up there.  But that isn't what happens IC - IC, it's possible to see no two people have the same accent.

It changes nothing. It's still an IC thing. If you character can't understand them. Thats IC... As in, In Character, in the Game, not an OOC concern.

It is not exclusively an IC issue, and it is partially an OOC concern.  I completely agree that it should be handled IC as of now, but there are valid points to be made in this discussion.  Since I've already made mine, I'll just quickly restate them - the code accent is always consistent.  The player-given accent is usually very inconsistent, with widely ranging accents even in one region, sometimes to the point of being unable to understand what they're saying.

So yes, it needs to be handled IC, but I suggest the alternative that it may be best to abandon the speech accents and leave it to the code to tell you how thick the accent is, for the sake of introducing some consistency.

[creeper386]

Untill the code is made so advance that it can properly adjust everyones words so they come acrossed with an accent, taking into account diferent accents for EVERY possible starting location as well as varying other factors. Heck... I could see upwards of ten accents in Allanak alone. Then, everyone well have to have perfect typing, both in terms of spelling and in terms of grammar.

As for...

...I'll just quickly restate them - the code accent is always consistent. The player-given accent is usually very inconsistent, with widely ranging accents even in one region, sometimes to the point of being unable to understand what they're saying.

Two people can be from Allanak, with two different accents. Although normally people from the city could still understand eachother... You got to take into all the accounts that go BEYOND just plain accent. There are probably still plenty of tribal overlays, even in Allanak. There are what... Four different human languages that can be all jumbled together. People could have ancenstors that spoke bendune and there is still plenty of that left in how they talk.

There is also varying RACES, dwarves, elves, half-elves, Muls, half-giants. Varying body parts are varying sizes among the races providing different tones, volume, and probably some other junk thrown in to make people sound different.

Add this to many many possible minor mutations and defects. Which could result in people not being able to make different noises and such.

Include various speech impediments, mental problems, drunkenness, diseases, drugs... And who knows what the fuck else...

It can up to alot of people not understanding alot of other people.

Now, it seems alot of people are complaining, because OOCily it's hard for you to understand them. Well you know why it's hard? Because your trying to make some sense out of them OOCily so your character can understand them. If you can't understand them, you can't understand them. It's still IC... If it's SO BAD that you can't communicate with them through words... Might want to find another route, or tell them that ICily, and find an IC route, if you don't absolutely have to communicate with them, you can just go that route and NOT TALK WITH THEM. I know there are plenty of people I avoid talking to on the internet because they don't use capitalization or punctuation. There are people I avoid IRL because the slur or whatever else. Or just because they have a whiney voice or something.

There are so many things involved, you can't just make a sweeping statement to say they have a poor accent. I didn't even include in all that that they just were bad at speaking that language. And so what if you can't understand them? The only time it would make any OOC trouble is if you go through the trouble and try to decipher your language. It's kind of like other games where someone completely sucks at a language, listens in on your discussion, and then takes the time to decipher everything because it's just scrambled letters and then runs off with that. If OOCily you have to go through trouble to decipher it, I'd just say your character can't understand what they fuck they are saying and play with that. Not get all pissy OOC about another persons RP.

Creeper

[creeper386]

Hmm... It's possible someone or ones might have been insulted by at least one of my posts in this thread. All I got to say is, whats new?

Really, it's the other persons RP to decide how the character talks. It's not your job to make sense of them. RP it out. If you don't understand them. Show that you don't understand them. If they are trying to be comprehensible, and just didn't know they were coming acrossed that bad... They well probably make adjustments to be understood. If it's a superiour? Well, good chance they are going to have a superiour you can report to. If they don't... How in the hell did your character get hired by someone they can't understand? Doesn't make too much sense.

If someone wants to play their character as someone that has troubles comunicating I say let them. Now I would have problems with going to the grand extreme. Like always adding in five r's to every word that has an 'r' in it. When in most cases just an extra letter or two would work just fine. But beyond that... It's still an IC concern. The OOC concern you have no control over, as it's the other person character, not yours. And I don't really see any sort of abuse or unrealistic behavior by having a thick accent...


Creeper

[spawnloser]

My only problem with most accents is that everyone that doesn't speak proper english seems to have a scottish accent.  So, what's wrong with eastern european, english, australian, spanish?  I don't wanyone to tell me that these places don't exist in the game, because you know what?  NEITHER DOES SCOTLAND!

(walks off muttering about stupid, dress-wearing freaks)

P.S. Disclaimer: I have nothing against Scots, in fact they're awesome, often times, but the fact that that's just about the only accent you see anyone bother to type out is kinda silly, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Well, I think the main reason for this is that all of us are reading what is said on the screen in the english language.
And since we only have accents we've heard in our language to utilize in the game so others will have any chance of understanding it, that is why this occurs.
Chances are if you were to come up with an accent of your own, using the english language, it probably still resembles another accent that exists in our world.
Some accents will appear the same when you write them out, even though they actually sound somewhat different when spoken.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't mind accents very much, but I have a serious problem when people overdue them, which I've seen a lot of lately.  If your from the other side of the known world and don't understand a person, thats one thing.  But you could easily have a character from the same region as theirs who would have no trouble understanding their accent.  Giving your characters inane, incomprehensible accents just limits other peoples RP in ways that you shouldn't have any control over how they are limited.

[Carnage]

Ugh, those accents are the worst. You know your accent is too strong when it takes players five minutes to respond to your says. Please, for the love of god, tone it down and be comprehensible!