Target Practice.

[FantasyWriter]

>drop ginka

Set ginka target

s

s

Shoot ginka n

[Myrdryn]

There's already plenty of purchasable archery/melee/backstab targets in Arm - they're called half-elves. And if you're lucky, you can get your money back.

Everyone knows that dwarves make the -best- targets.

[FantasyWriter]

There's already plenty of purchasable archery/melee/backstab targets in Arm - they're called half-elves prostitutes. And if you're lucky you succeed, you can get your money back.

[jhunter]

There's already plenty of purchasable archery/melee/backstab targets in Arm - they're called half-elves. And if you're lucky, you can get your money back.

Everyone knows that dwarves make the -best- targets.

Sorry Myrdryn, but no...too hard...too many broken arrows.

[shadeoux]

There's already plenty of purchasable archery/melee/backstab targets in Arm - they're called half-elves. And if you're lucky, you can get your money back.

Everyone knows that dwarves make the -best- targets.

Sorry Myrdryn, but no...too hard...too many broken arrows.

Ha I win again!

[Twilight]

Hopefully, in Arm2, archery could be practiced on objects, instead of mobiles only.  That would make it possible to craft or mastercraft some sort of archery target.

As it is, the way the archery targets that exist work, where I have have seen them, and the OOC rules surrounding their use, and the IC restrictions to their use...is about right.

[roughneck]

Voted who cares?

Archery is an easy skill to train without dummies.

[Potaje]

Alright, ya got to be kidding me.. no one thought of a wooden shield mounted to a wooden post.. Seem s silly simple.

Oh wait need so red paint and a paint brush ya got circles... Or better yet two pieces of rope draped from a beam attached to either side of the shield and some one gives it a shove to give the archer a moving target.

no need to waste bags, or use stone.

I mean damn give a thick weave of reeds over the wood shield, to damped the arrow strike, or for that matter weave a target out of grass and reeds.

[brytta.leofa]

Voted who cares?

Archery is an easy skill to train without dummies.

I'm intrigued--unless you just mean that your character is one who has a reason to go on hunting trips?  There are only like two city-based clans that have a real, ongoing, legitimate reason to actively kill animals.  (Salarr and Kadius, who need the raw materials.  You can argue 'bout Kurac.)

I know that I'm totally whining about this, but we'd see a huge outcry if the southern Byn couldn't spar.  The Arm of the Dragon has units of archers, so it's clearly a valued military skill, even in the south.

[Thunkkin]

My first character was a crossbowman (ranger) in the AoD.  I'll always love Nelly for taking me out to hunt scrabs - but yeah.  I have no idea why all those guys in the Nak militia carry crossbows since there's no where or no real way to train.

[brytta.leofa]

My first character was a crossbowman (ranger) in the AoD.  I'll always love Nelly for taking me out to hunt scrabs - but yeah.  I have no idea why all those guys in the Nak militia carry crossbows since there's no where or no real way to train.

I took booze bottles over to a small ruined area and shot at 'em.  ("shoot direction")  Never accumulated enough logs to bother sending in, as it was deadly dull to do.

[roughneck]

Voted who cares?

Archery is an easy skill to train without dummies.

I'm intrigued--unless you just mean that your character is one who has a reason to go on hunting trips?  There are only like two city-based clans that have a real, ongoing, legitimate reason to actively kill animals.  (Salarr and Kadius, who need the raw materials.  You can argue 'bout Kurac.)

I know that I'm totally whining about this, but we'd see a huge outcry if the southern Byn couldn't spar.  The Arm of the Dragon has units of archers, so it's clearly a valued military skill, even in the south.

Why isn't practice a legitimate reason to kill animals?  I've played rangers who are amused by watching a jozhal writhe around on the ground with an arrow through it's lung, hunting the less dangerous creatures of the game world would be great sport... and a way of pissing off some tribals.

Besides, any class that gets archery has legitimate reason to go outside the gates now and then just to stay sharp as a soldier/hunter/guard/whatever.

[Cutthroat]

I think brytta is trying to say that while practice is a legitimate reason to kill animals, it is not a legitimate reason for every PC. There needs to be more accessible ways for characters that don't have this as a legitimate reason to practice, or else they will either A) not practice or B) act out-of-character.

[roughneck]

I think brytta is trying to say that while practice is a legitimate reason to kill animals, it is not a legitimate reason for every PC. There needs to be more accessible ways for characters that don't have this as a legitimate reason to practice, or else they will either A) not practice or B) act out-of-character.

I'm saying if you want to be good at the skill suck it up and go kill some jozhals, it's not that big a deal.  You need to learn to compensate for howling desert winds anyways.

You can always get a pro to teach you for a few coins and then you can rp your target practice.  I don't think target practicing should be able to get you up to the higher levels of the skill anyways, but as I said, since the skill is fairly easy to train I wouldn't care either way if some clans had practice dummies or not.

A backstab dummy would get me a little pissy just because that's a skill which is both difficult to train and mondo powerful.  But for all I know they exist as well, I saw someone mention them in this thread.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think brytta is trying to say that while practice is a legitimate reason to kill animals, it is not a legitimate reason for every PC. There needs to be more accessible ways for characters that don't have this as a legitimate reason to practice, or else they will either A) not practice or B) act out-of-character.

I'm saying if you want to be good at the skill suck it up and go kill some jozhals, it's not that big a deal. 

While I understand it's not what you explicitly saying; Some people like to play their characters with realism, and don't like to just "Suck it up and break character."

[Thunkkin]

Besides, any class that gets archery has legitimate reason to go outside the gates now and then just to stay sharp as a soldier/hunter/guard/whatever.

I would pay money to watch your recruit/private explain to the Lord Templar how you broke one of the basic rules of the entire clan, drilled into recruits' heads from day one, because you wanted to "stay sharp."

When you're in a clan like the AoD, you aren't traipsing out casually to solo-hunt and watch jozhals squirm on your day off.

[roughneck]

I think brytta is trying to say that while practice is a legitimate reason to kill animals, it is not a legitimate reason for every PC. There needs to be more accessible ways for characters that don't have this as a legitimate reason to practice, or else they will either A) not practice or B) act out-of-character.

I'm saying if you want to be good at the skill suck it up and go kill some jozhals, it's not that big a deal.

While I understand it's not what you explicitly saying; Some people like to play their characters with realism, and don't like to just "Suck it up and break character."

Don't break character then.  Have someone teach you and be decent at archery, just not the best.

Realistically characters wouldn't do a lot of things they do, but sometimes to keep a computer game fun and interesting you have to make up excuses to do things.  Like climbing abandoned buildings so you can get decent at climb and go on that big adventure up a cliff or mountain.

Besides, any class that gets archery has legitimate reason to go outside the gates now and then just to stay sharp as a soldier/hunter/guard/whatever.

I would pay money to watch your recruit/private explain to the Lord Templar how you broke one of the basic rules of the entire clan, drilled into recruits' heads from day one, because you wanted to "stay sharp."

When you're in a clan like the AoD, you aren't traipsing out casually to solo-hunt and watch jozhals squirm on your day off.

Then it's Lord Templar's job to decide whether or not his soldier is going to be good at archery.  If you're so in character you should enjoy the templar having that kind of power over your play anyhow.

[RogueGunslinger]

Right. We're trying to fix an issue(certain pc's unable to train a skill). We aren't looking for cheap workarounds to the issue(players making excuses for their pc's).

Looking for a mentor is not easy, or a viable option to most characters that want their skills to go up.

I agree you have to make up excuses for SOME things, but it has to be in character still.

As a sort of aside; A lot of people like play through the game like they would play through a real persons life, instead of say, how they would play through a tv characters life. Playing like that doesn't often allow for excuses to be made for coded game advancement.

[spawnloser]

A soldier firing a box/x-bow doesn't require skill.  They aren't precision firing at a lone target, they're simply shooting an arrow/bolt into a milling pile of opposing forces.  I am fine with soldiers not learning how to use a bow with any real skill without having to find/earn special consideration by their superiors so that allowances can be made to allow it.

[Ampere]

A soldier firing a box/x-bow doesn't require skill.  They aren't precision firing at a lone target, they're simply shooting an arrow/bolt into a milling pile of opposing forces.  I am fine with soldiers not learning how to use a bow with any real skill without having to find/earn special consideration by their superiors so that allowances can be made to allow it.

Yeomen were required by law to train for at least one day a week, a practice which led to both deformity, and exceptional skill.   You see, during war, people wear armour, which is pretty damn effective against arrows.  Every country had archers, but not every country had an army of master archers.  Not only were these yeomen able to fire absurd distances, but they were able to fire with an absurd accuracy.  This unmatched skill allowed them to zone in on weakpoints in their enemies' armour, which is why they were so feared.  Oh, and they would practice on targets.

Here's another analogy: when was the last time you score a 180 at darts?

[brytta.leofa]

A soldier firing a box/x-bow doesn't require skill.  They aren't precision firing at a lone target, they're simply shooting an arrow/bolt into a milling pile of opposing forces.  I am fine with soldiers not learning how to use a bow with any real skill without having to find/earn special consideration by their superiors so that allowances can be made to allow it.

The code doesn't support this.  If your archery skill is at <novice>, it doesn't matter how many people are in the next outdoor room: you're going to aim at only one of them, and you're probably going to miss.

As an in-character matter, the PC unit of the Arm of the Dragon is an infantry unit: not cavalry, not archery, not half-giant drummers.  But it still seems odd that archery isn't any part of the training regimen.

[Spoon]

A soldier firing a box/x-bow doesn't require skill.  They aren't precision firing at a lone target, they're simply shooting an arrow/bolt into a milling pile of opposing forces.  I am fine with soldiers not learning how to use a bow with any real skill without having to find/earn special consideration by their superiors so that allowances can be made to allow it.

Yeomen were required by law to train for at least one day a week, a practice which led to both deformity, and exceptional skill.   You see, during war, people wear armour, which is pretty damn effective against arrows.  Every country had archers, but not every country had an army of master archers.  Not only were these yeomen able to fire absurd distances, but they were able to fire with an absurd accuracy.  This unmatched skill allowed them to zone in on weakpoints in their enemies' armour, which is why they were so feared.  Oh, and they would practice on targets.

Here's another analogy: when was the last time you score a 180 at darts?

Yeoman archery derail ensues! Just to point out a few inaccuracies for reference (judging by your spelling of armour you probably already know all of this ):

Practicing archery with a bow (what was called a war bow, now referred to as a long bow) was only made law in England and Wales because enthusiasm for archery was waning in the late middle ages. The fact English and Welsh archers were so good was a phenomenon. It was simply the chosen pastime of common men in Wales and England. And these longbows could pierce steel plate and chain mail pretty easily. There is a medieval record of two arrows having pierced a four-inch thick solid oak door in Wales. These bows had a pull of around 200 pounds (resulting in the 'spurs' found on the joints archer's skeletons). I'm looking for the Benjamin Franklin quote about proposing the use of longbows in the American Revolution, but can't find it. Basically THEY'RE SUPER AWESOME, but their use in large scale war was limited to medieval England and Wales simple because of the culture that cultivated their use: Something that was never planned and was never adopted by any other nation for various reasons. Phew.

As for archers firing in battles, yes and no. They would be highly skilled, but would simply fire in the general area of a large group of enemies. It's a matter of tactics, as you can fire more arrows if you take less time aiming.

This is all true, or at least has sources backing it up. Somewhere....

As for Arm, if you're crap at archery there is no chance of getting a lucky shot. If a unit of untrained bowmen fire at a unit of tregils, they probably won't kill anything.

My thoughts on the matter are tied. I see the logic for archery targets, but there are seriously strict rules on the use of the ones currently available for abuse reasons. Archery can be one hell of a deadly skill, and rightly so. I'd be happy if there was a way of having archery targets cap the possible amount learned at a reasonably low level (like apprentice, enough to make the skill useful enough in the field). It's a mater of realism and code balance. Imagine how miserable this game would be if being good at archery was commonplace.

[brytta.leofa]

My thoughts on the matter are tied. I see the logic for archery targets, but there are seriously strict rules on the use of the ones currently available for abuse reasons. Archery can be one hell of a deadly skill, and rightly so. I'd be happy if there was a way of having archery targets cap the possible amount learned at a reasonably low level (like apprentice, enough to make the skill useful enough in the field). It's a mater of realism and code balance. Imagine how miserable this game would be if being good at archery was commonplace.

I agree in principle, but--rhetorical question--where's the difference between archery and warriors' skills?  We don't worry about Bynners becoming overpowered from daily practice.

(1) Archery is harder to defend against.  And so it should be, yet warriors get epic shield_use (and "run; n; bash ranger"), rangers and sneakies have stealth skills, and everybody else is a filthy abomination or should be staying inside the wagon.

(2) Archery is probably much quicker to raise to dangerous levels if you can actually practice.

If archery is actually overpowered, why not dramatically reduce the rate of skill gain, drop the price of arrows to a reasonable level, and encourage its practice where it makes sense?  And take a look at the balance of archery versus large shields.

Archery, in my opinion, should be a commonly-employed military skill, but mostly a harrassing tactic unless you have a lot of archers or one who's reallllly good.

It should be roughly as hard to reach "reallllly good" with a bow as it is to reach "reallllly good" with a sword.

[Synthesis]

There is a huge difference between archery and melee, in terms of how dangerous it is in the game right now.  (Archery is much scarier, until you start comparing it to say...a half-giant warrior.)

That being said, it's actually much easier to max archery than it is to max a weapon skill, if you know what you're doing.

[brytta.leofa]

That being said, it's actually much easier to max archery than it is to max a weapon skill, if you know what you're doing.

On elves.