Thief Guild - Burglar/Pick Pocket Combined!

[Salt Merchant]

For all the others and your whine about pickpockets, yeah. Get over it.

Someone's "whining"? Get over it.

[Qzzrbl]

For all the others and your whine about pickpockets, yeah. Get over it.

Someone's "whining"? Get over it.

Quit trollin', maaaan.

[Cutthroat]

Before this thread turns into a discussion about the 'climb' skill and getting over obstacles, I would just like to say that I don't think pickpockets are particularly broken or lack a place in the game. We don't need to remove or combine guilds, because the main skills of the pickpocket and burglar, arguably steal and pick, don't need to be put together to create a PC that can steal in any situation. The methods of thievery are vastly different as-is, anyway. Already a good guild_pickpocket can be played or employed creatively, and not just for pickpocketing.

The idea that a skilled, well-played PC pickpocket can be a "plague" is odd to me, and seems like a stretch, because (and correct me if I'm wrong) I thought this was a game where characters would regularly have to deal with loss - often the unfair kind. The problem of poorly-played pickpockets can't be entirely stamped out with code changes, although raising a victim's awareness after he/she catches a failed attempt for a time makes sense, considering NPCs have the "Thief! Thief!" defense.

Such a change to the steal code combined with reinforcement of good roleplay of thieves would be the most effective way of making a pickpocket class that is more widely enjoyable. We have The Thief's Bible on the website, and perhaps a player that has successfully played a pickpocket could start a thread in Player Collaboration about good pickpocketing specifically.

[Malifaxis]

There's no plague of pickpockets.  There's a couple of people who feel wronged, and like any reactionary redblooded redneck American, they're raising way too huge of a stink about it.  My apologies to any rednecks who are not reactionary, you're good folk.

Pickpocketing as a skill should be looked at, as someone mentioned.  For each failure, the target of that failure should get a bonus to perceive the next attempt, as well as a bonus to see the thief as well. 

Pickpocketing should also have bonuses depending on how drunk the target is.

In my opinion, despite the 'need' for these minor change suggestions, thieving is done remarkably well on the game.  If you're pissed about it, that sucks.  That's kind of the point.

Having something stolen from you is not an offense to you as a player, unless you invest waaaaay too much of your heart in this game.  If that's the case, walk away from the keyboard, pick up a phone, call a shrink and get your head checked.  If having a series of valueless ones and zeros stolen from "you" causes an actual problem for you, then you need to find a new hobby.

Get a grip.

[Synthesis]

Well, technically those 1's and 0's representing your character's inventory aren't valueless to the player.

Since you must invest time to accumulate those 1's and 0's to your pfile, and time is a valuable and scarce resource, you are in fact losing RL value when someone steals from you IC.

That being said, folks should realize that this is what is understood as "a cost of doing business" when you play the game.

[Kalai]

Well, technically those 1's and 0's representing your character's inventory aren't valueless to the player.

Since you must invest time to accumulate those 1's and 0's to your pfile, and time is a valuable and scarce resource, you are in fact losing RL value when someone steals from you IC.

That being said, folks should realize that this is what is understood as "a cost of doing business" when you play the game.

Hmm... thinking about it. Every time I've been stolen from it has contributed to my enjoyment as a player.

Therefore, any griping about thieves, if it discourages the thieves, will negatively impact my enjoyment profit from this game.

Therefore, to counter it, I must insist I'd rather be stolen from more.

[lepxii]

Synthesis - those 1s and 0s become a scarcer commodity because they are regularly transferred via various means (pkill, stealing, falling off a cliff, templars, sekreet magickers, ....) to other pfiles and to game rooms. Thus, the amount of time require to amass said bits increases, and your perceived value increases as well.

I'm fairly sure that staff would look down at RL transactions involving hard cash for said bits (this would probably results in all bits of the pfiles in question being erased) - but then again, this perceived policy probably increases perceived value of said bits as they are not liquid (though they may be fungible in a certain sense (memcpy)), thus accumulation of the bits is not a linear function of your IRL wealth.

Being more serious - you play for enjoyment. It takes some time to amass belongings, and probably even more time to get a PC with "skillz" or a vast social network. A large part of the enjoyment of the game is the fact that there are a multitude of dangers faced by PCs and that various items, skills, and friends can, to a certain extent, mitigate said dangers.

And frankly - it is far too easy to avoid being pick pocketed by a combination of IC actions coupled with OOC code.

[Sam]

For each failure, the target of that failure should get a bonus to perceive the next attempt, as well as a bonus to see the thief as well. 

I liked your post except for this. I wanted to say I disagree with the bolded portion unless you mean to see the thief on any FURTHER attempts.
It is already too easy to catch a thief.

[Thunkkin]

It is already too easy to catch a thief.

[jhunter]

Another thing just occurred to me...if there was a single rogue guild that could do both, they would be able to divide their time between picking pockets and burglarizing apartments instead of being able to rely only on one route of thievery to sustain themselves. Just something to think about.

Stop trying to get burglars that can pickpocket like a motherfucker and have sap, folks.

So remove sap from the skillset if it became a single skillset. I wouldn't miss it anyway. I've -had- burglars that could pickpocket like a motherfucker.

[Qzzrbl]

Another thing just occurred to me...if there was a single rogue guild that could do both, they would be able to divide their time between picking pockets and burglarizing apartments instead of being able to rely only on one route of thievery to sustain themselves. Just something to think about.

Stop trying to get burglars that can pickpocket like a motherfucker and have sap, folks.

I've -had- burglars that could pickpocket like a motherfucker.

Possibly, but pickpockets pick pockets the motherfuckest.

[Malifaxis]

For each failure, the target of that failure should get a bonus to perceive the next attempt, as well as a bonus to see the thief as well. 

I liked your post except for this. I wanted to say I disagree with the bolded portion unless you mean to see the thief on any FURTHER attempts.
It is already too easy to catch a thief.

That's what I meant.

I didn't have my brain in.

Wow, what a fucked up day.

Thanks for the interpretation, you rock.

Another sentence that's slightly longer than the last.

[jhunter]

Another thing just occurred to me...if there was a single rogue guild that could do both, they would be able to divide their time between picking pockets and burglarizing apartments instead of being able to rely only on one route of thievery to sustain themselves. Just something to think about.

Stop trying to get burglars that can pickpocket like a motherfucker and have sap, folks.

I've -had- burglars that could pickpocket like a motherfucker.

Possibly, but pickpockets pick pockets the motherfuckest.

So, just to be certain...it's: motherfuck, motherfucker, and motherfuckest?

[Bilanthri]

My vote... REMOVE the burglar guild. Not because they are overpowered or twinked or anything like that. I just don't find them to be an integral part of the world, at least enough to require PC representation, nor a role that is rewarding at all. Personal opinion though.

"I don't have fun when I play Burglars...lets get rid of them."

Not meant to be a flame. Just felt a need to clarify. I have felt very rewarded with some burglar roles. Variety allows all of us dissimilar people to come together and play. (Sub-guilds anyone?)

[Archbaron]

My vote... REMOVE the burglar guild. Not because they are overpowered or twinked or anything like that. I just don't find them to be an integral part of the world, at least enough to require PC representation, nor a role that is rewarding at all. Personal opinion though.

"I don't have fun when I play Burglars...lets get rid of them."

Not meant to be a flame. Just felt a need to clarify. I have felt very rewarded with some burglar roles. Variety allows all of us dissimilar people to come together and play. (Sub-guilds anyone?)

I agree. I love the burglar class, it's one of favorites, actually. Just because you don't find them integral doesn't mean that others don't. They have a unique take on stealth and weaponry that makes them fun to play.

[Marshmellow]

Burglars are the middle ground between assassin and pick-pocket.  They're good for some things, indeed.

[Synthesis]

Burglars are pretty much the only way to grief the wealthy and risk-averse.

[jhunter]

I just like burglars as a sort of mulitpurpose criminal character. The only thing I think I haven't actually done with one is burglarize someone's place.

[Archbaron]

I just like burglars as a sort of mulitpurpose criminal character. The only thing I think I haven't actually done with one is burglarize someone's place.

This.

[Bebop]

Haters gonna hate.

[Feco]

Burglar's have a lot of use outside breaking and entering apartments, as already stated in this thread.

Think Indiana Jones, yeah?

Burglar/Acrobat

Or something.

[Morrolan]

Burglar's have a lot of use outside breaking and entering apartments, as already stated in this thread.

Think Indiana Jones, yeah?

Burglar/Acrobat

Or something.

Indy?  Burglar/Thug special app with....READING!  (Call the Templarate!)

>get hat
You get your signature hat.
>wear hat
You are awesome.

[MeTekillot]

Burglar's have a lot of use outside breaking and entering apartments, as already stated in this thread.

Think Indiana Jones, yeah?

Burglar/Acrobat

Or something.

Burglar/Scavenger.