New Players and the Hall of Kings

[Pheonix]

I know there's been threads that have brought out having a newbie 'zone', and likely a few that have posted the idea I have, but as I couldn't find them easily enough, I figured to bring it up again.

We have a lot available on the website for new players. However, out of all the new players that come into the game, probably only a handful will actually spend the time to go through all the available resources before playing.

Currently, when you log into the Hall of Kings as a first player, you come to a very generic room, similar to how it is like in other muds out there, and there is an npc tattooist available who can add scars to your character. The NPC says a single line or so, and that's all a new player has to base their initial impression of the game on before picking a location to start from.

What I'd like to hope to discuss is whether this following idea might be a better option. I know a lot of you have great ideas, but please make a new thread if it is largely different to this topic.


It is usually the first impression of a game that sticks with people, at least until they are given time to adjust their ideas based on their experiences. It's a pretty well-known fact, and companies spend millions of dollars on advertising and such because of it.

First, for a new player only (maybe including non-karma players) that we are assuming hasn't gone over all the documents and resources on the website before joining, I think it would be helpful to have a one-time note attached upon entering (similar to the current IG news we get whenever joining presently) that points them once more to the documents.

Once in the Hall of Kings, among the list of available starting locations, they have the option of pointing to another 'Hall of Kings' or similar such title, but more specifically tailored to new players. In it, there's an npc (or more) that they can talk with that can show them through IG interaction, rather than OOC, how certain commands and aspects of the game work.

The room can be tailored with common IG items, such as a bar and table, another npc with a few scripted emotes, maybe sitting at one of the tables so they can 'sit at table' with them and interact.

They wouldn't have to listen to everything in order. The npc can be scripted to list all the available topics, and the player can choose which ones to listen to. It would be just like how the rumors function of the game currently works, albeit a bit more advanced.

Once done, they can 'point map' again, and see all the starting locations show up.

In addition, a few player volunteers (maybe those listed as 'helpers') can have avatars that are made specifically to be in that room to help them out, interacting with them IG rather than through an instant messaging service or email.

Thoughts? Other suggestions?

[Jenred]

Your first line summed it up best. This has been discussed before, ad nauseum.

There becomes two distinct groups of responders. Those that believe it would be a great addition, and those that think its "ok" but want alot of the details before making a decision; with a bunch of people in between or against (for whatever reason). Since their is general agreement from the onset, whats left to be discussed are the details. And that is where it falls apart. The thread usually devolves into arguing over the "extent" of what the "Beginner's Area" (everyone is reticent to use "Newbie") would incorporate. The die-hard camp likes everything from tutorials to allowing communication with helpers (that being on the extreme end). Then the idea of items being available comes in, etc etc. Then someone brings up the fact that newbie equipment identifies players as newbies and makes them targets, or that power-gamers will utilize the newbie area for either items, perks, or some other foreseeable 'advantage' that is not intended of the area. Then there are the people that believe that it would not suit the games environment, etc, etc.

What usually gets the most consensus is:
1. The game COULD use something to help more easily incorporate players.
2. Players would like some manner of pre-game customization, forgoing the typical "run to the Bazaar" as soon as the character gets accepted to buy all the things "You would've had" in the role you are playing. - This usually gets countered with the fact that your character has not finished all the code changes the character will go through until they have pointed to their finalized destination. So you technically can't wear or hold anything, and the money you have has not been decided yet. - This gets countered with "a zone after you point" - which is usually brought up too late in the discussion to get any credit.

However, not much else (as typical of the Forum) gets a agreed upon. There is always outpourings of help (i.e. "I'll volunteer"), and lots of good ideas, but it usually goes by the wayside at the end and the thread dies out.

One more recent thread "Wouldn't it be Neat" had nothing but support and agreement, but eventually fizzled out in an argument between two people that weren't in disagreement and the thread died in a flame war.

Sanvean is quoted as saying (in 2005 mind you):

That said - one of the things we've been tossing around in immland for a while is the idea of modifying the Hall of Kings to a) make the experience easier for players who are new to the game and b) maybe throw in some stuff experienced players would appreciate, such as a way to get Tuluki caste tattoos before entering the world, for example.  So - what would you guys like to see in such a revamp?  What would have made your initial experience easier or more enjoyable?

Many people responded to the question portion "What would have made your initial experience easier", and now... 5 years later... well you can get scars now - so I guess its better.

So... now that things have been recapped, I will give my personal stance and we will likely repeat much of the cycle mentioned above.
I would like to see the process go like this (I have more grand ideas, but they are code-heavy)

Pre-setup: 1 new flag/stat/whatever is added in the chargen code. It allows you to specify whether or not you are new to Armageddon.

Path 1 - If you selected the Newbie Flag.
You are whisked away to a secondary Hall of Kings (HoK). The secondary HoK is much like you mentioned, it gives you a chance to practically apply the things you were expected to read about in the Helpfiles. You are able to sit, stand, walk, talk, etc. Your skills are frozen in this area. There are helpful tips, etc. Helpers would be given a secondary character slot, with a character that cannot leave this area. Kind like a gladiator character slot, and would have the option of logging into this area to assist new players. Or arrange with new characters beforehand and setup a time to meet them there.

When you are done with this area you are taken to the normal secondary HoK. -see below-

Path 2 - No newbie flag.
You go to the Normal Hall of Kings and select your starting city, so that your finalized coded stats are put in place, etc. You go to a pre-room, for that location. There would be a room or set of rooms for each starting location. if you picked Allanak for example you would be taken to a set of rooms that would allow you to buy commonly purchaseable things, nothing fancy/unique or special, so you don't pop up in the Gaj looking like every other newbie. The items would be the same standard fair as the commonly available shops in Allanak. You would be able to get tattoos and scars, etc. There would also be a message board (that you can't add to), that would allow your character to read up on the events that you would have access to. If you picked an area like the Rinth, or Undertuluk, or a desert-elf tribe, then the items would again be tailored to that area. Items would be region specific, etc.

When you are finished you pop wherever you were set to go.

There is very little downside to this as I see it. Its easily implemented, and can be implemented in sections for almost immediate gratification.
I.e. the non-newbie part could be done today. In a few hours. In the time it took me to write this post, 2 or 3 people could have all the building done. The coding for the non-newbie part is also not difficult. You alter the destination room of pointing to one of the just created rooms.

Anyways, now time for other people to suggest ways to improve or alter or change, and ultimately stay with what we have now until Arm 2.0.

[Adhira]

We are actually working on a project to revamp the HoK and add in tutorials and other such things for newbies (and oldbies).  The helpers have been assisting with this.

[janeshephard]

We are actually working on a project to revamp the HoK and add in tutorials and other such things for newbies (and oldbies).  The helpers have been assisting with this.

I'm not a helper but would be happy to go through it and give you feedback. I only started playing back in December.

[deviant storm]

Just please, whatever staff does to the HoK area, would it be possible to turn off the part of the code that starts to make people hungry/thirsty?

Newbies will have enough to deal with learning how to interact and/or reading, doing tutorials, which will take time. There's no reason for them to use that little bit of ic resources before they even really get in game.

[Niamh]

It never ceases to surprise me how many new players simply do not read the documentation when they make a character, in spite of both the website and the game itself stating that one needs to do this before playing.

[Akoto]

It never ceases to surprise me how many new players simply do not read the documentation when they make a character, in spite of both the website and the game itself stating that one needs to do this before playing.

I would bet that at least some of them find their way in via sites like The MUD Connector, which just provide the advertisement and a direct link to connect. You don't even need to glance at the website beforehand. I know this is the case with TMC. Maybe our listings on such directories could be revised to emphasize the documentation?

[janeshephard]

It never ceases to surprise me how many new players simply do not read the documentation when they make a character, in spite of both the website and the game itself stating that one needs to do this before playing.

Niamh, I read everything I could, including most of the helpfiles. I missed things like "salvage" and I still didn't know how to exactly wear things on locations without more help file reading. Falling off the shield wall? My first character did this and it took me about 3-4 minutes of head scratching to realize I did that.

First encounter with a gith, with a group of hooded people? I think the reptilian part of my brain stopped me from typing "kill hooded" and instead use "key hooded" to see who was who and fight that way. Assist? I didn't know that existed because the helpfile "kill" does not also link to "assist" yet "assist" links to "kill."

Reading the helpfiles helps with syntax but there are things we do everyday in the MUD that are actually pretty complex to new comers because they are of a convention we don't see elsewhere.

I'm not complaining to you. I'm just saying a combat tutorial, a survival tutorial in the sands, a "how to dress appropriately" tutorial and so on would help ease people into the game.

[Morgenes]

We rely on feedback from new players such as you to uncover issues like kill not refering to assist, and needing more documentation on wearing items.  I'd encourage you to suggest/write up documentation that you feel would have been helpful to getting you started and mail it to me and I'll make sure it goes in.

[Thistle]

If you want to help with this, especially newer players who might have a fresh eye for things than your input is very welcomed.

Please send any ideas/suggestions/thoughts to: helpers@armageddon.org

Make sure the subject is specific to what the email entails.

[RogueGunslinger]

It never ceases to surprise me how many new players simply do not read the documentation when they make a character, in spite of both the website and the game itself stating that one needs to do this before playing.

I didn't. Just winged it, really. Then went back and slowly read as I played.

Some people just don't want to read a ton of information about a game they don't know they want to play or not, expecially as one as hardcore as Arm is.

[Niamh]

Reading the documentation makes a difference when making a character.  I won't get into any specifics, but there have been some new PCs that have come into the queue that have had to be totally redone because they simply did not fit the game world.  There is a lot to learn about this game, and in order to seriously play it, you need to know a lot of what is in the documentation.  If you find any parts of the documentation lacking, I encourage you to bring it to staff attention.  Players have added a lot to the docs already, and we're always happy to take submissions to improve them.

On the other hand, I do agree that getting some information beforehand would be helpful, especially regarding commands, syntax, where to go and where not to go, etc.  The Helpers are a great resource for things like this, and they help to ease the steep learning curve of the game.  If building a tutorial area for new players helps to ease this as well, then I'm certainly not going to knock it. 

[Gloomshroud]

Yes. Reading makes a difference. Having been around less than a month IRL, I can tell you the going is slow. Sadly, (and I have been reprimanded for this) Sometimes asking syntax questions OOC gets a slap on the wrist for "chatter." While perhaps my shameless plug of my Arm soundtrack in OOC was a bit much, asking other game-related questions and being shut down by players and staff alke is disheartening.

The fact remains, since no other alternative exists, if we don't ASK or READ, we don't  KNOW. And I've gone through the site and the copious helpfiles...but there are still things that a new player does..not...know.

A newbie zone would be a welcome breath of fresh air. I know Zalanthas is harsh...but really...

[Irulan]

Gloomshroud - you really should consider contacting a helper, they can answer alot of those questions for you, without you needing to resorting to OOC. Many of them are on AIM or MSN messenger and will help guide you while you are playing. Going OOC while in game disturbs the immersion for many people.

I'm glad to see you are so excited that you have an Arm soundtrack.

http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.php

-Irulan

[Rhyden]

Gloomshroud - I happen to be a helper. *glances at sidebar* Yup, still a helper.

Shoot me a pm or send me an email and I will gladly answer any question(s) you might want answered. However, if any question strays too IC, I will hand out a 'find out IC' without hesitation.

Also, there's other helpers too! All of which I'm certain will have absolutely no problem answering any questions.

Seriously. Use us.

[Gloomshroud]

Cool, thanks. Usually though, my questions are a "of the moment" thing, and have no bearing later on. lol

[FuSoYa]

Cool, thanks. Usually though, my questions are a "of the moment" thing, and have no bearing later on. lol

For something like this you might want to use an IM client and keep a folder/partition/whatever you call it just full of helpers.  You can introduce yourself or not but if you have a quick spur of the moment question you can fire it off that way.

Or what you can do is keep a list of questions in a notepad file and then after your session shoot it off.

Best of luck and glad you're enjoying ARM.

Brandon

[Rhyden]

double post

A REAL helper wouldn't be such a massive newb as to double post. Newb.

That's because I'm still a newb. Newb.

Cool, thanks. Usually though, my questions are a "of the moment" thing, and have no bearing later on. lol

Then they are probably IC (In-Character) questions that we can't answer as you can (and will have more fun whilst) figure them out yourself. However, if you have any syntax queries or "things-your-character-would-know" questions, we can absolutely help you out.

[Riev]

I'd consider myself close to vet status, and I -still- send off IMs to people asking basic syntax questions, or "Can xxx people do yyy?"

Helpers are fucking the greatest tool.

[MarshallDFX]

It's likely some people don't want to read a bunch of documentation before they can even get to try the game out.  The Hall of Kings (newb zone) should be accessible pre-character creation.

[Gloomshroud]

It's likely some people don't want to read a bunch of documentation before they can even get to try the game out.  The Hall of Kings (newb zone) should be accessible pre-character creation.

Uhh...not so much. I'm one of "those" people who ALWAYS reads the instruction manual BEFORE playing a game. ROFLMAO.

[MarshallDFX]

It's likely some people don't want to read a bunch of documentation before they can even get to try the game out.  The Hall of Kings (newb zone) should be accessible pre-character creation.

Uhh...not so much. I'm one of "those" people who ALWAYS reads the instruction manual BEFORE playing a game. ROFLMAO.

Well that's fine.  This would be totally optional, for those who don't even know if they want to play on at all Arm yet, thus fairly unlikely to spend a bunch of time reading up.  It just tries to break down one of the "walls" new players might find.  Get them in game!

[Reiteration]

After you log in, your 'username' should appear in a room, much like being logged in and walking around. In this room there should be a couple of tables, a bar (with free drinks of course), and users should be able to talk amongst themselves, much like how IRC or Tinychat operate. When you 'leave' the room, you either log into your character, or if you do not have an accepted character, you are returned to the login screen. This way, new players can talk to more experienced players passing through.

[MarshallDFX]

I feel like I disagree.  In my head I imagine new players just being able to go through the "newb training centre", or at least a small portion of it, without actually having to create a character yet.  The newb training centre would then link to all the various documentation, and hopefully they'll then be interested enough by then to read it before creating their character.

I don't think we need an IRC.  Helpers are there for that.

[HailTheAbyss]

After you log in, your 'username' should appear in a room, much like being logged in and walking around. In this room there should be a couple of tables, a bar (with free drinks of course), and users should be able to talk amongst themselves, much like how IRC or Tinychat operate. When you 'leave' the room, you either log into your character, or if you do not have an accepted character, you are returned to the login screen. This way, new players can talk to more experienced players passing through.

I don't think everyone would like their username to appear. Mine is totally different to my GDB handle, for example, so no one would recognise it.

Having a room like that for people to practice the emote syntax would be good though. With prompts from NPCs for example, or even dedicated helpers that would have access to it.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Having a room like that for people to practice the emote syntax would be good though. With prompts from NPCs for example, or even dedicated helpers that would have access to it.

Maybe some kind of script in the room itself which would echo to the player. Like, you automatically see what you emote, but you then get two more echoes of the emote. One which is what the target sees, and one which shows what the room (everyone else in it) sees?

[Marc]

A room for practicing emote syntax should be available via 'change location', same as scars.  That's hella cool for everyone.

[Gloomshroud]

I think there should be a room to practice mudsexin'. LOL j/k.

In all seriousness, though, even the basic syntax is hard to pick up first. Maybe a selection. One for people new to MUDs in general, and one for people who are just new to Armageddon.