Elves and Accents.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Tribal accent is for bendune.  Desert elves do not speak bendune by default.

Thank you for this. Good to know I wasn't totally in left field for thinking this.

[Twilight]

This isn't limited to a D-Elf speaking Allundean.  Any that chooses linguist is going to face this issue speaking Sirihish/Mirrukum, which makes absolutely no sense.

[Rhyden]

Tribal accent is for bendune.  Desert elves do not speak bendune by default.

True, but if tribal accent was for d-elves as well, we wouldn't be running into this confusion.

The fact that delves start without accents, yet they can pick up accents, of which they can never go back to, is confusing.

Personally, I'd prefer:

D-elves - tribal allundean
Tribals - tribal bendune

[musashi]

+1

I just would like weird oversight to be corrected one way or the other. People playing delves seem unhappy that the first accent they pick up is the one they're stuck with, and I on the other side think its "meh" that they end up sounding exactly like whoever was listening ... unil they branch that first accent.

[th3kaiser]

Tribal accent is for bendune.  Desert elves do not speak bendune by default.

Then please god fix it where if a delf picks up this accent or any other, they automatically switch to the new accent and can never get back to the nul accent.
I've seen entire tribes speaking like Bendune fluent human tribals. It's remarkably stupid and annoying.

[daedroug]

Some one that learned to speak a language from the heart of it's origin isn't going to have a noticeable accent, alternatively some people that end up moving around alot won't necessarily have the regional queues in their speech. As well while accents are usually noticed, the absence of such queues usually isn't. Some of us might make fun of someone from the south for saying "ya'll", but I doubt anyone would notice as much if someone said "you all" instead. While I do agree that it is an oddity that a desert elf linguist gets to speak perfect mirukkim and sirihish I don't think it should preclude them from keeping their perfect allundean speech.

On the note of why city elves and dwarves don't speak perfect allundean and mirukkim, it's because of the influence of where they where raised. Just as Desert Elves where influenced to speak Allundean correctly.

[Twilight]

The British actually do think we Americans have an accent.

There is no such thing as a lack of accent, or a "pure language", because that would require a benchmark to start from.  That benchmark isn't something natural, its just measuring device that we use.  An accent is merely a difference in the way something is spoken from one person to another.  There isn't anyone that is so close to the way everyone else speaks that they don't have any accent (which is what would be required, if you don't set a benchmark).

That said, I think it is irrelevant.  This is really a legacy code issue that wasn't addressed when accents were introduced, that no one has fixed yet, IMHO.

[daedroug]

True but there is such a thing as True American English, just as there is such a thing as True Zalanthan Allundean. I could likely go just about anywhere in the US and I doubt anyone, save perhaps those that make accents their profession, could tell where I'm from.

[Gimfalisette]

True but there is such a thing as True American English, just as there is such a thing as True Zalanthan Allundean.

Smirking, the tawny-blonde data analyst says, in California-accented English:
      "You're hella wrong."

[daedroug]

Sorry edited abit as you posted.

[Gimfalisette]

They might not be able to tell where you are from, but they can tell that you have an accent, because you don't sound like them. People across the US can sound vastly different from one another. I have a brother-in-law in Louisiana who, when he is speaking with a friend of his, I almost can't understand them due to the depth and speed of their drawl.

Check this out: http://web.ku.edu/~idea/northamerica/usa/usa.htm

Accents. We haz them.

[musashi]

As does, everyone else in the word.  

But the idea that we all talk with accents is ... you know ... so self evident that I really don't get why it's being debated at all.

More to the issue at hand is, how to best represent that for the delves in a way that isn't giving them weird coded issues (be they advantages or disadvantages) .

[daedroug]

I'm not saying that the US doesn't have accents I'm saying that it is possible to have not have any of the accent queues. Sure I talk differently compared to someone that does have an accent, but that doesn't prove that I have an accent.

[Reiloth]

As does, everyone else in the word.  

But the idea that we all talk with accents is ... you know ... so self evident that I really don't get why it's being debated at all.

More to the issue at hand is, how to best represent that for the delves in a way that isn't giving them weird coded issues (be they advantages or disadvantages) .

Perhaps staff should alter thier point of view on Tribal Accent and have it apply to both d-elves and bendune-speaking-tribals? I'm sure it'd be easy to figure out "Oh, that elf is talking like a tribal elf, and that Arabeti is speaking like a tribal human." It would also alleviate the code issues at hand.

[FantasyWriter]

To throw in my two sids, I would like for accents to only affect Sirihish.

Side note: I, and most of the other dwarves I've played with, type in perfect layman's English when speaking in Mirukkim, and I've always loved that.

[musashi]

I'm not saying that the US doesn't have accents I'm saying that it is possible to have not have any of the accent queues. Sure I talk differently compared to someone that does have an accent, but that doesn't prove that I have an accent.

Dude ... seriously ... accents are subjective. You have one because other people have one. It's ... it's really not up for discussion any more than say the concept of the number 1.

Like I said, I think the main question I wanted to pose in the thread is how to best express the allundean (and though slightly less dealt with, mirikium) accents via the code.

[AmandaGreathouse]

Me personally: I was born in Iowa and moved to Florida when I was six months old. I have lived nearly my entire life in the deep south, and my mother's accent is every bit as strong as 9 out of 10 of those who are native here.

When people from the south hear me speak, they think I'm from Chicago. When people from up north hear me speak, they think I'm from the midwest.

I can see how it's perfectly logical that people could hear d-elves and come to any number of conclusions about their accent.

If anything, I would suggest maybe 'muddled' or 'unaccented'. Not tribal though. That's tied to a native fluency in bendune. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Allundean.

[Gimfalisette]

I'm not saying that the US doesn't have accents I'm saying that it is possible to have not have any of the accent queues. Sure I talk differently compared to someone that does have an accent, but that doesn't prove that I have an accent.

I'm not quite sure what it is about the concept that you don't understand, but quite plainly--you are wrong. You have an accent. You just don't hear your own accent.

To make an awkward but perhaps helpful analogy: The fact that person Q's eye color is lighter than person K's eye color does not mean that person Q has no eye color. Lightness of eye color is not some "default setting" of perfection to which all other eye colors can be compared.

[musashi]

If anything, I would suggest maybe 'muddled' or 'unaccented'. Not tribal though. That's tied to a native fluency in bendune. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Allundean.

I can buy into the idea that tribal relates to native bendune speakers.

But I don't get why you would think that desert elves are somehow immune to having a discernable accent related to the fact that they are native allundean speakers. Or that the accent would be any less well known than say ... the tribal human one. Delves are certainly just as well travelled as their human tribal counterparts.

[Synthesis]

I would like to see this argument played out IC.

[daedroug]

It's not so much that I don't have an accent but that in the US I can pass for not having one, Sure if I head to England I'll be said to have an American accent but in the US I'm pretty sure I come off speaking near the basest level of American English (and I'm not just saying this myself, I've been told before that I have no discernable accent). It's a matter of levels, just about any accent in the US stems from one base dialect that if you happen to grow up in a place that speaks it, you likely won't have the Ya'lls, the Ayes, or dralls that are noted in any dialect that stems from it.

Also considering that zalanthas is smaller then the US and the fact that Desert Elves are the originators of Allundean, I'd say it's possible that they speak the basest level of modern allundean that exists, that of which all other dialects stem from.

[AmandaGreathouse]

If anything, I would suggest maybe 'muddled' or 'unaccented'. Not tribal though. That's tied to a native fluency in bendune. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Allundean.

I can buy into the idea that tribal relates to native bendune speakers.

But I don't get why you would think that desert elves are somehow immune to having a discernable accent related to the fact that they are native allundean speakers. Or that the accent would be any less well known than say ... the tribal human one. Delves are certainly just as well travelled as their human tribal counterparts.

Not to outright say you're wrong, but: If desert elves were supposed to have speech which reflected something like that, they would start with sirihish. As tribal humans do. And considering that it 'would' be entirely possible for them to learn sirihish from any number of accented sources, it wouldn't necessarily be correct to, say, give all d-elves a single accent, unless it 'was' to imply that the language they'd picked up outside of their own 'was' muddled. And calling it a 'tablelands' accent is not always going to reflect things properly.

Not all of them are from the Tablelands. I can think of one tribe, specifically, that's from farther north than Tuluk. How does that figure in? And, if they 'are' well-travelled enough that picking up on, say, sirihish would happen, I think when they branch sirihish, it should open up a 'muddled' accent.

As to d-elves and having a tribal accent: See Shal's post: Tribal accent is for bendune.  Desert elves do not speak bendune by default.

[RogueGunslinger]

Mushashi doesn't have an accent. I've heard him speak.

[Twilight]

Played out IC'ly.   Hmmmm.

Northern elf to southern elf "No, the Soh sound like me!"

Southern elf to northern elf "No, the Soh sound exactly like me!"

Northern elf to southern elf "They speak like a perfect northerner you twit!"

Southern elf to northern elf "I can't believe you let them con you like that."

Rinthi elf to both "Allundean, mothafucka, do you speak it?"

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm just saying, staff told me that d-elves speak perfect allundean.

STAFF TOLD ME!!!!