You Try To Attack It, But It Rises Overhead...

[Synthesis]

Why is it that it's impossible to kick/bash/charge something that has its status set to flying, but it's possible to just directly attack it with weapons or bare hands?

[Aaron Goulet]

I always assumed that this was because you attacked whenever said beast swooped by.  At least, that's how I imagined it.  If the best shot you can get is a swipe as the thing is diving at you from above with beak/talons, it makes a little more sense.

[Halcyon]

Same question... if you can knock a flying beast to the ground, why can't you then kick/bash/backstab it before it stands up again?

[Cerelum]

Same question... if you can knock a flying beast to the ground, why can't you then kick/bash/backstab it before it stands up again?

Because it's probably some type of coded FLAG or toggle on bird type critters that makes Kick, Elbow, Headbutt etc (don't know if any of those are real commands so if they are, my bad) not work when you type it.

Something that can probably be fixed, but most likely won't be if it's a hassle codewise.  E-mail a request into the request tool under QUESTION and see what they say.

[Delstro]

I don't think you should be able to attack some flying animals at all unless you snuck up on it, or you are using ranged weapons.

[Akoto]

I don't think you should be able to attack some flying animals at all unless you snuck up on it, or you are using ranged weapons.

That might be very problematic for some archers out there, as most feathers come from flying things. You need feathers to make arrows, which means you need to get birds down from the sky, which means you'll have to make friends with a braxat and/or silt giant and have him smack them down for you.

[Synthesis]

I don't think you should be able to attack some flying animals at all unless you snuck up on it, or you are using ranged weapons.

That might be very problematic for some archers out there, as most feathers come from flying things. You need feathers to make arrows, which means you need to get birds down from the sky, which means you'll have to make friends with a braxat and/or silt giant and have him smack them down for you.

Slings don't require feathers.

[musashi]

I don't think you should be able to attack some flying animals at all unless you snuck up on it, or you are using ranged weapons.

That might be very problematic for some archers out there, as most feathers come from flying things. You need feathers to make arrows, which means you need to get birds down from the sky, which means you'll have to make friends with a braxat and/or silt giant and have him smack them down for you.

Slings don't require feathers.

You can also buy feathers for cheap cheap cheap. I think most folks do that anyway because killing vestric and hawks is a pain in the arse. I'm in agreement that flying critters should not be hit-able at all unless they attack you first.

With my first ranger I actually thought this was the case and always shot hawks and stuff from a room away. I still think its lame when people hit animals with "is flying high overhead" in their ldesc with a hammer. 

[janeshephard]

With my first ranger I actually thought this was the case and always shot hawks and stuff from a room away. I still think its lame when people hit animals with "is flying high overhead" in their ldesc with a hammer. 

I have emoted swatting at it thereby getting its attention.

[Xeran Van Houten]

I've had birds chase and attack me in game without me attacking them... Its not unreasonably to tag a large swooping bird with a hammer - especially if it's trying to go for your face.

[Kryos]

Somewhat on topic:  I'd really love to see flying things land now and again to eat/sleep/be merry.  Clever hunters could then shadow their prey until the time is right, and you could leash the flying mechanics a bit more.  (no engaging without bow/ability to fly, etc)  Maybe for 2.Arm

[musashi]

Somewhat on topic:  I'd really love to see flying things land now and again to eat/sleep/be merry.  Clever hunters could then shadow their prey until the time is right, and you could leash the flying mechanics a bit more.  (no engaging without bow/ability to fly, etc)  Maybe for 2.Arm

That would be cool I think.

[Good Gortok]

Seems to be a primitive DIKU flag where an animal is either flying or not_flying, and flying makes it immune to combat_skills so as to prevent people from backstabbing the hawks that soar far above the grasslands or subdue flying magickers. Unfortunately, the aging code doesn't have a lot of variables in that regard.

The neatest fix would be to divide the flying flag into two: flying and hovering. A flying entity wouldn't be able to interact with the game world in such ways as picking up objects, operating things, foraging, and attacking or being attacked by a grounded entity. If they wanted to do anything like that, they would have to hover down to the ground, at which point they would become vulnerable to attack themselves. Flying animals would periodically alternate between flying and hovering so they could be hunted, but would probably take flight after a short amount of time if attacked.

[musashi]

That would be a really good addition to the code in my opinion.

[Good Gortok]

I just want to hide somewhere and subdue a mage when he lands to line his silk pockets with more foraged artifacts.

[musashi]

Then you can demand they give you their lucky charms!!!!

[Winterless]

Then you can demand they give you their lucky charms!!!!

They're magickally delicious! Catch me lucky charms!!!

[MarshallDFX]

I'm having a very good time imagining my character kick a vestric in the beak with a turn kick as it swoops by.   "HYAH!"

[musashi]

I um, don't think vestric fly 

[MarshallDFX]

Ok.  I just said vestric.  Imagine any flying thing.  I did.

[jhunter]

I um, don't think vestric fly 

Not yet but I've been trying to train the bastards for a while now and I think we're getting close.

[Lizzie]

Half-giants should be able to do stuff with flying things that other races can't. Such as subdue..c'mon how cool would that be, for a half-giant to reach up and swoop his arm over his head, grabbing that verrin hawk in mid-flight!

Also, it isn't fair that my ninja can't do the parkour thing on a tree and backstab a kylori. I should totally be able to do that.

[FantasyWriter]

I don't think most HG's have the agility to grab flying things out of the air like that.

[evil_erdlu]

I'm as clumsy as a half-giant compared to my pet parrakeet. I cannot simply subdue it while it flies - didn't try but I'm sure I can't - and a parrakeets can't even fly that well. (Sadly one of our past parrakeets had died, crashing into the wall and breaking his neck. Poor thing couldn't alter his route because he was young and just learning to fly.)

Of course, a real half-giant warrior would have training in wrestling, opposed to the coder fatass who hasn't worked out for years.

Tough call... I don't have an opinion, if a half-giant can swipe his huge clawed hand and grasp the verrin hawk as it swoops or not.

[Synthesis]

My semi-ideal fix, based on 1.Arm physics and code:

1. Impossible to initiate a melee attack on something that is flying.
     a. Exception: unless the aggressor is also flying.

2. Possible to initiate a ranged attack, but the ranged attack doesn't necessarily initiate combat (coder's discretion).

3. Something that is flying can attack a grounded target, but as soon as it 'disengages,' the grounded target is no longer able to strike it with melee attacks.
     a.  Exception:  if the flying thing is currently reeling from a powerful blow and it disengages, it will disengage, but melee will continue until it is no longer reeling.
          i. Exception: if the flying thing disengages and the grounded target disengages, melee will cease regardless of reeling status.
     b.  Exception: if the flying thing is suffering from a combat-delay timer (from the kill, backstab, kick, bash, etc. commands), it will disengage, but melee will continue until the timer expires.
          i. Exception:  if the flying thing disengages and the grounded target disengages, melee will cease regardless of combat-delay timer status.

4. All regular combat commands can target something that is flying if it is engaged in melee combat with a grounded target.
     a.  Optional:  additional damage to target from bash and/or charge and/or trample, reflecting presumed height of fall.

5. If something that is flying initiates a ranged attack on a grounded target, it does not automatically engage melee combat.

6. If something that is flying is "stumbled to the ground" by a ranged attack, it suffers fall damage equivalent to falling off a 1-room drop.

I think that pretty much covers it.

I think you'd probably have to move Whiran up a couple of karma ranks, though.

[jhunter]

My semi-ideal fix, based on 1.Arm physics and code:

1. Impossible to initiate a melee attack on something that is flying.
     a. Exception: unless the aggressor is also flying.

2. Possible to initiate a ranged attack, but the ranged attack doesn't necessarily initiate combat (coder's discretion).

3. Something that is flying can attack a grounded target, but as soon as it 'disengages,' the grounded target is no longer able to strike it with melee attacks.
     a.  Exception:  if the flying thing is currently reeling from a powerful blow and it disengages, it will disengage, but melee will continue until it is no longer reeling.
          i. Exception: if the flying thing disengages and the grounded target disengages, melee will cease regardless of reeling status.
     b.  Exception: if the flying thing is suffering from a combat-delay timer (from the kill, backstab, kick, bash, etc. commands), it will disengage, but melee will continue until the timer expires.
          i. Exception:  if the flying thing disengages and the grounded target disengages, melee will cease regardless of combat-delay timer status.

4. All regular combat commands can target something that is flying if it is engaged in melee combat with a grounded target.
     a.  Optional:  additional damage to target from bash and/or charge and/or trample, reflecting presumed height of fall.

5. If something that is flying initiates a ranged attack on a grounded target, it does not automatically engage melee combat.

6. If something that is flying is "stumbled to the ground" by a ranged attack, it suffers fall damage equivalent to falling off a 1-room drop.

I think that pretty much covers it.

I think you'd probably have to move Whiran up a couple of karma ranks, though.

I like it all except the last part. If whirans were move offensive of a class sure but I don't believe them to be offensive enough for this to be a problem.

[Synthesis]

Heh, if you don't think Whirans are an offensive class, you've never been pk'ed by one.

[Miri]

Can we not discuss how epik PK awesome a karma class may or may not be, guys? It bothers me, and it's more or less thinly veiled IC info, even if a ton of us veterans know that sort of thing. Leave the newbies some discovery, please.

[Synthesis]

Every magicker is scary as fuck, and can fuck your shit up entirely, and entirely without warning.  Everybody should know that, IC and OOC.

That being said, I was more addressing the problem of buzzards/hawks/falcons/siltflyers.

[Miri]

Yes, I realize that, but ... eh.

I think I agree with the premise that flying creatures should need to initiate combat, though I wonder if it hasn't been implemented before due to balance reasons. On the same topic, I don't think disengage should automatically stop combat for said flying person. That's what flee is for, after all. Maybe a bonus to that, if it isn't reflected already?

[musashi]

I believe flee'ing already is painfully easy for flying creatures.

[Cerelum]

My position is it should be hard as hell to kill flying things without a ranged weapon or magickal spell.

I would like to see one of you slash a hawk out of the air with a bone longsword...  IF you can do it, youtube it.

[Dan]

I believe flee'ing already is painfully easy for flying creatures.

Should be much harder to flee from something that is flying too.