Me, Ginka, Karma, and Existentialism

[Jdr]

I've never focused on or cared about Karma. I get very focused on my immediate role though. Maybe a little too focused but I digress.

[LoD]

A bigger policy change towards player creation, and putting the tools of "world modification" into the players hand.

I don't see the connection between increased player options for item, room, and NPC creation and the plight represented in this thread of players that feel they aren't getting enough interaction from the Staff, or are feeling neglected.  I imagine a small subset of these disgruntled people are waiting on item requests, sdesc requests, or NPC requests, but the majority of them are likely not waiting on issues related to any of the ideas you've attached.

I can't conceive of a system that would ever allow arbitrary creation of objects, rooms, or NPC's for the game that didn't have to go through some kind of QA process by the Staff to make sure all of the fields are completed, values are correct, description is appropriate, etc...  And I can't imagine the overhead of submitted objects, nor the database swelling every month with players who submit their own special item because they want black leather wrapped about the hilt, or silver trim along the sleeve, or a purple dragon stitched into the sleeve of their tabard.

I think more realistic solutions for player control over rooms and items are to create a system that allows for temporary changes to rented room names, customizable clothing options (e.g. material, color, design, trim, etc...), and customizable brands/marks that could be added to existing objects.  I could also potentially get behind the ability to create temporary (meaning codedly destroyable) dwellings as enterable objects granted you had enough raw materials, labor, and time.  This might allow someone to throw up a hovel, hut, stand, stage, tent, or similar such location within a room without having to affect/impact the more permanent background.

Code Select Expand


Amidst a Dusty Clearing [E]
Many bricks of hardened mud are here, stacked in a pile.
Several lengths of numit vine rope are here, coiled in a pile.
Many bundles of thatch are here, stacked against the wall.

>build hut
You can build a small, medium, or large hut.

>build hut small
A small hut requires 50 mud bricks, 25 lengths of numut vine, and 50 bundles of thatch.
There are 50 mud bricks, 25 lengths of numut vine, and 49 bundles of thatch in the area.

>drop bundle
You drop a bundle of thatch.

>build hut small
You begin constructing a small hut.

*Now, if assist were modified to construction, others could assist you in the construction to go more quickly.*

You finish assembling a small hut.

>look

Amidst a Dusty Clearing [E]
A small hut stands here, crafted from mud brick and thatch.

>enter hut
You enter a small hut.

A Small Hut [Leave]
  Crowded within the mudbrick walls of this tiny hut, the floor beneath you is covered in dirt and remnants of
shattered brick. Stretched overhead is a rooftop of woven thatch, bound tightly together with lengths of
sinewy numut vine rope.
  A small doorway in the south wall leads out.

>change room
You can alter either the room's name or the room's describer.

>change room name
You can alter the room's name to Hut, Dwelling, Shop, Home, or Hovel.

>change room name dwelling
You have changed the room name to Dwelling.

>change room describer
You can alter the room's describer to Small, Dusty, Cramped, Filthy, Clean, or Smelly.

>change room describer filthy.
You have changed the room describer to Filthy.

>look

A Filthy Dwelling [Leave]
  Crowded within the mudbrick walls of this tiny hut, the floor beneath you is covered in dirt and remnants of
shattered brick. Stretched overhead is a rooftop of woven thatch, bound tightly together with lengths of
sinewy numut vine rope.
  A small doorway in the south wall leads out.

>leave
You leave a filthy dwelling.

Amidst a Dusty Clearing [E]
A filthy dwelling stands here, crafted from mud brick and thatch.

With enough variation, I think players would find plenty of use for these pre-built, pre-designed structures to use throughout the given settlements and wilderness as they desired.  It also takes the pressure of the Staff to answer and judge requests, eliminating almost all of the overhead you would have in a more arbitrary system for design.

-LoD

[FantasyWriter]

LoD.... I just jizzed in my pants... thank you.

[Cerelum]

Fuck Karma, it is overrated. Seriously.

The one thing that sorta is strange and funny about Karma is this.

You still have to get the character approved, so even if I have 8 Karma and make a badass sorcerer, I still gotta sell the concept to staff, which makes me wonder.  Why bother with karma?

It would seem easier to me to just let folks send up whatever app, and just review it as per normal.

Now if Karma allowed me to just throw together an app and instantly play, I'd totally see the point, but it seems like more of a crowd control and to keep the extreme higher up staff members in control of who plays what and when.

I personally would rather see Storytellers and the like able to approve things of this manner rather then waiting on the select few, this would speed up app time and decrease frustration.

[Gimfalisette]

If you have the karma to make guild X, then the staff knows you are already trusted to play guild X and their approval process is easy and quick.

If you do not have the karma to play guild X, then staff must review your account in order to figure out whether or not they want to extend temporary trust so that you can play guild X. This is more difficult and not quick.

What you propose would dramatically slow down the approval process for all applications.

[Kevo]

The answer I've come up:

Fuck worrying. Assume everyone involved is trying their damndest, and has positive intentions.
App what I want, when I want. Send in updates, and emails, and feedback, when I want. Someone in staff thinks it's too much, or too little, or too anything, I'm sure they'll let me know. As for pretty much every other problem listed, I don't really run into that kind of stuff, so, it doesn't apply to me.

And as for saying fuck Karma? No, thank you. Karma represents = ability to play class A,B,C, and D. More than half the classes in the game. That's more than half the roles in the game. It's not like you actually have to do anything -specific- to get it. No one's saying, okay, you can't play a nilazi, untill you impress Gimf, and kill three carru. Since it takes no actual effort beyond what you normally should be doing, it's fine not to worry about, but to not care entirely is like saying, what? I can't have those grapes? Pfftt....fuck those grapes.

my two cents.

[Salt Merchant]

There's a great deal of similarity between all the karma classes anyhow.

In all these classes, you are despised by society and are kill-on-sight in many if not all places.

Effectively the same limited role with different powers.

[musashi]

Expect for muls and half-giants ...

[Yam]

Expect for muls and half-giants ...

Everybody loves half-giants.


Three year olds with clubs.

[musashi]

They kind of remind me of Bam Bam from the Flinstones.

[Synthesis]

Expect for muls and half-giants ...

Everybody loves half-giants.


Three year olds with clubs.

Are All Half-Giants Stupid?

Yes. The wisest of half-giants is probably no more clever than a rather dim-witted human. But it is important to understand what is meant by stupidity. Many people attribute stupidity falsely - for example, to primitive peoples or to children. Stupidity doesn't really describe either of these cases; ignorance or naivety are perhaps better words. So a half-giant is not like a child or a primitive humanoid, but rather, simply a very stupid person, although this is a much more subtle concept.

Similarly, speaking like a child is not the most appropriate way to portray a half-giant. Very young children often speak poorly because they have not grasped the proper situations to use words in. As mentioned above, half-giants are very attentive to such things. It will take them longer to figure it out than it would a human, but an adult half-giant understands most grammatical rules - especially the simple ones - but might slip up on such things as saying "an" rather than "a" before a word that begins with a vowel. These examples, while specific to speech, really illustrate how all of a half-giant's thought processes work.

In fact, everyone who wants to play a half-giant should go ahead and read that entire page.

[Yam]

Expect for muls and half-giants ...

Everybody loves half-giants.


Three year olds with clubs.

Are All Half-Giants Stupid?

Yes. The wisest of half-giants is probably no more clever than a rather dim-witted human. But it is important to understand what is meant by stupidity. Many people attribute stupidity falsely - for example, to primitive peoples or to children. Stupidity doesn't really describe either of these cases; ignorance or naivety are perhaps better words. So a half-giant is not like a child or a primitive humanoid, but rather, simply a very stupid person, although this is a much more subtle concept.

Similarly, speaking like a child is not the most appropriate way to portray a half-giant. Very young children often speak poorly because they have not grasped the proper situations to use words in. As mentioned above, half-giants are very attentive to such things. It will take them longer to figure it out than it would a human, but an adult half-giant understands most grammatical rules - especially the simple ones - but might slip up on such things as saying "an" rather than "a" before a word that begins with a vowel. These examples, while specific to speech, really illustrate how all of a half-giant's thought processes work.

In fact, everyone who wants to play a half-giant should go ahead and read that entire page.

Three year olds are articulate. They don't say "Me want banana.". They usually say, "I want a banana!" I think those docs were written by someone who doesn't spend a lot of time around children, since half-giants are described as having very child-like responses to things. They mimic their leaders, they're gullible, and they lack the ability to reason far into the future. Those are all exhibited by young children who can, for lack of wisdom, be as eloquent as most adults.

Let's get this weird train back on the tracks.

[spicemustflow]

Half giants should be above sorcerers in karma. Enormously destructive and have every excuse to be. I hate and dread them both IC and OOC.

[FuSoYa]

Half giants should be above sorcerers in karma. Enormously destructive and have every excuse to be. I hate and dread them both IC and OOC.

I think that's flawed.

One of the reasons being how many half-giants are there in the population of the Known?  Now how many sorcerer's?

Just one reason.

Brandon

P.S.  I have NO intention of ever playing a HG and nothing about the class or play style seems appealing to me.  That being said I love a well-played one.

[Cutthroat]

The answer I've come up:

Fuck worrying. Assume everyone involved is trying their damndest, and has positive intentions.
App what I want, when I want. Send in updates, and emails, and feedback, when I want. Someone in staff thinks it's too much, or too little, or too anything, I'm sure they'll let me know. As for pretty much every other problem listed, I don't really run into that kind of stuff, so, it doesn't apply to me.

And as for saying fuck Karma? No, thank you. Karma represents = ability to play class A,B,C, and D. More than half the classes in the game. That's more than half the roles in the game. It's not like you actually have to do anything -specific- to get it. No one's saying, okay, you can't play a nilazi, untill you impress Gimf, and kill three carru. Since it takes no actual effort beyond what you normally should be doing, it's fine not to worry about, but to not care entirely is like saying, what? I can't have those grapes? Pfftt....fuck those grapes.

my two cents.

Good post.

The best approach to Arm is a laid-back one, IMO. It's alright to not worry about karma, because you're just trying to have fun. You'll get it automatically anyway, or when you request your notes every once in a while, as long as you're doing what everyone's supposed to - play with respect to the documentation and other players.

[ianmartin]

Screw Karma, whatever the hell that is.  I haven't gotten one Karma EVER.  Who misses what you never had before.  No worries mate.  BTW, Half-Giant merchants or thieves are not the best concepts.

[Gimfalisette]

I wish there was more tempting variety in mundane roles than in karma roles. I have some karma and I do use it on occasion to taste the variety of the game, but my own playing mindset is more mundane than fantastical--so I really long for there to be more usefulness and options with some of the mundane stuff. I think there will be in 2.ARM.

IMO, reasons players want karma include, in no particular order:

-- Desire for more coded power
-- Desire to try new things
-- Desire to be able to do X, which is perceived as being difficult or impossible to achieve with a mundane guild or basic race
-- Desire to participate in plots which may be non-mundane
-- A feeling of validation and worth from the staff for their play / contribution
-- A reluctance to special app for stuff
-- Enjoyment of the magick system itself
-- Desire for faster coded advancement with a karma PC
-- An orientation toward the fantastical (player type is more fantasy than sci-fi) makes magick PCs more attractive
-- Desire to learn about the game overall
-- Drive to "win," both by having karma and by using it
-- Exploration of the psyche of a non-mundane or non-human character type

There's undoubtedly more reasons as well, but I think I've probably listed the most important. Most of these reasons are perfectly fine. None of them is necessarily destructive to the game.

But yeah, overall, it's better to stop worrying about karma, stop playing for karma. Personally, I play for the enjoyment of myself and those around me, and hopefully to contribute to the experience of other players as a whole. (Plots etc.) Karma comes in weird and unpredictable ways and at odd intervals, and once I had to ask for some after not getting any for a long time. Also, I very much do not believe that karma has anything to do with whether the imms like me (some do, some don't) or whether they like what I'm doing in game (probably some do, and most just don't give a crap about me in particular).

[LoD]

The answer I've come up:

Fuck worrying. Assume everyone involved is trying their damndest, and has positive intentions.
App what I want, when I want. Send in updates, and emails, and feedback, when I want. Someone in staff thinks it's too much, or too little, or too anything, I'm sure they'll let me know. As for pretty much every other problem listed, I don't really run into that kind of stuff, so, it doesn't apply to me.

And as for saying fuck Karma? No, thank you. Karma represents = ability to play class A,B,C, and D. More than half the classes in the game. That's more than half the roles in the game. It's not like you actually have to do anything -specific- to get it. No one's saying, okay, you can't play a nilazi, untill you impress Gimf, and kill three carru. Since it takes no actual effort beyond what you normally should be doing, it's fine not to worry about, but to not care entirely is like saying, what? I can't have those grapes? Pfftt....fuck those grapes.

my two cents.

I wanted to provide an observation for you, perhaps to act as a mirror for what others (including Staff members) may also see.

Simply in reading your posts, I've interpreted or inferred a variety of qualities that may or may not be accurate about you.  The tone of your writing feels rushed, angst-ridden, dramatic, hypersensitive, frenzied, and swift to action.  If these qualities bleed into your RP, your correspondence with staff, or your decision-making in game, it could be a potential reason why you haven't seen more karma during your tenure with the game.  Your demeanor and activity may be the kind that doesn't instill the type of trust in a player that convinces the Staff that they won't consistently make rash decisions, will take the time to read and adhere to documentation, or won't become impatient with a limited or restricted role (many of the karma-related roles are restricted in some capacity, whether it be mentally, socially, or culturally.)

You also mention having 200 characters in a span of 9 years.  Now, I don't know anything about you or your characters, but that averages out to 16.42 RL days between characters -- about 2 RL weeks.  For all I know, you may have had several 30+ day characters, but that would make all of the rest exist for an even shorter period of time.  This may also represent a problem/obstacle in your quest to karma.  Two weeks is pretty short amount of time for the staff to determine how you handle the same character through a variety of situations; It's important for them to be able to see you develop as a character at rest, under duress, when entrusted with sensitive information, when given chances to twink out or exploit a situation, when given some responsibility, etc...

What they -would- be able to glean from someone who averaged 2-week characters is that the person may have issues with being bound in one place too long, or embodying one role too long.  And if they had issues keeping engaged, or made decisions that frequently brought about their death, they might form an opinion about how you may treat roles that require a higher degree of self-restraint, patience, and consideration for other players.  Many of the higher karma roles have the potential to do great harm to others, especially if they are allowed to perform borderline actions backed up by sketchy rationalizations or paper thin reasoning.

I understand that you weren't fishing for advice in this thread, but simply stating you were "OK" with the current state of things.  However, it's apparent to me that you would still enjoy having the opportunity to explore these other options.  If that's true, my suggestion would be to consider the points above and honestly evaluate whether any of them ring true.  If they do, then you may want to consider how your past has brought you to this point, and what possible changes you could make to slightly alter its course.

If you want, or ever need, help or advice, feel free to contact me or any of the other Helpers.  Some may feel that Helpers are meant to assist newbies, but I know I've taken away many good lessons from having discussions with other veteran players, simply to view old issues from a unique and fresh perspective that I may not have considered.

-LoD

[Pale Horse]

But yeah, overall, it's better to stop worrying about karma, stop playing for karma. Personally, I play for the enjoyment of myself and those around me, and hopefully to contribute to the experience of other players as a whole. (Plots etc.) Karma comes in weird and unpredictable ways and at odd intervals, and once I had to ask for some after not getting any for a long time. Also, I very much do not believe that karma has anything to do with whether the imms like me (some do, some don't) or whether they like what I'm doing in game (probably some do, and most just don't give a crap about me in particular).

One of the notes attached to my account, concerning earlier Karma, said in effect that I'd "earned" it, simply by sticking around for so long and playing to the documentation.  That's it.  I had knowledge of the game world and it's cultures, and tried to role-play my characters according to them.  No "staff liked me" kinda of things.

Also, concerning Karma, while I love having it, it's more for one of the reasons that Gimf mentioned above.  I like trying new things, and I like having options open to me.  In this case, these extra options come with some responsibilities, simply because this is a Staff/Player monitored game, and there are expectations attached to each new karma role.  I haven't found any of these expectations to be "restrictive", per say, as I'm one of those that doesn't chafe at rules and laws (for the most part).  The higher up you go in karma, the more expectations are attached, which can give a sense of restriction to some.  If this isn't the type of thing you like, then perhaps sticking with mundanes and standard races would prove to be more enjoyable for you.

For someone who likes socializing with their characters as much as I do, I find that while I love the power potential of the magicker roles and strong races like muls and half-giants, I find "mundanes", both guild and race, to be much "easier" to roll with.

[Gimfalisette]

What LoD says about looking at your playstyle and attempting to learn and adjust is very valuable. It's not that there is just one "best" playstyle for ARM; there are lots of ways to potentially contribute to a great game. But there are a handful of playing tics that will cause staff and other players to feel uneasy and untrusting...and as karma is a measure of trust, it's a good idea to work on eliminating those tics if you want to earn karma.

Simply saying "screw it" won't make those tics go away, and therefore will not eventually lead to karma. If you've (general you) played X years and you don't have much karma (or as much karma as you'd like), then it may be time to really evaluate why that is and what you'd need to change if you want to earn karma.

Part of the problem is that there is not much feedback from the staff about what we could do individually to improve. I don't know that there is a solution to that. I think we may need to rely on each other to figure out what we can improve. Perhaps asking other players who have played closely with us would be a good place to start.

[Cerelum]

I'll add my two cents in, due to a response to a special app I recieved earlier today,

I've said it time and time again, I'm not a perfect fellow, I make mistakes all the time and have even made mistakes that meant quick deaths to my cherished characters really quickly out the gate.  So don't think I'm trying to be an elitest and say I'm the shit or anything.

Here is the problem with account notes and the current "karma" system and reliance on it.  It sorta is a faulty system even in workplaces around the country I would hazard to say.  Someone does great work, shows up all the time on time, does their best, they are a good employee.  They then screw up once, end up missing work just one time after years on the job, they are noted and written or given some type of documentation to say, "You screwed up."  They then apply for a nice cushy job at Corporate, corporate looks at their file and goes, "Utoh, he's gotta write up for being late." so they then deny him the job.

Basically that just happened to me today, I'm not gonna get into why and what I did wrong as that's between me and staff.  But I honestly think they made a mountain from a molehill in this instance, and I'm sure in other people's as well.

That is why I don't like the limit on special applications, because I just wasted one I never would have submitted if I knew that "tiny" little thing would hold me back.  This is why I don't like the account notes system, because I'm willing to bet that I have no positives on my account or if I do they aren't looked at nearly as much as my negatives.

Do I feel slighted a bit, yeah, am I allowed to feel slighted, yeah, but I know what you're going through.

Jarod

[FuSoYa]

I'll add my two cents in, due to a response to a special app I recieved earlier today,

I've said it time and time again, I'm not a perfect fellow, I make mistakes all the time and have even made mistakes that meant quick deaths to my cherished characters really quickly out the gate.  So don't think I'm trying to be an elitest and say I'm the shit or anything.

Here is the problem with account notes and the current "karma" system and reliance on it.  It sorta is a faulty system even in workplaces around the country I would hazard to say.  Someone does great work, shows up all the time on time, does their best, they are a good employee.  They then screw up once, end up missing work just one time after years on the job, they are noted and written or given some type of documentation to say, "You screwed up."  They then apply for a nice cushy job at Corporate, corporate looks at their file and goes, "Utoh, he's gotta write up for being late." so they then deny him the job.

Basically that just happened to me today, I'm not gonna get into why and what I did wrong as that's between me and staff.  But I honestly think they made a mountain from a molehill in this instance, and I'm sure in other people's as well.

That is why I don't like the limit on special applications, because I just wasted one I never would have submitted if I knew that "tiny" little thing would hold me back.  This is why I don't like the account notes system, because I'm willing to bet that I have no positives on my account or if I do they aren't looked at nearly as much as my negatives.

Do I feel slighted a bit, yeah, am I allowed to feel slighted, yeah, but I know what you're going through.

Jarod

If if makes you feel any better Jarod I've never had a special application accepted for one reason or another but that's just the name of the game sometimes.  I know it's disappointing but the great thing is we are still able to roll up our regular characters, jump in to the game world and have a kick ass time.

Don't get to down man.

Brandon

[Cerelum]

I'll add my two cents in, due to a response to a special app I recieved earlier today,

I've said it time and time again, I'm not a perfect fellow, I make mistakes all the time and have even made mistakes that meant quick deaths to my cherished characters really quickly out the gate.  So don't think I'm trying to be an elitest and say I'm the shit or anything.

Here is the problem with account notes and the current "karma" system and reliance on it.  It sorta is a faulty system even in workplaces around the country I would hazard to say.  Someone does great work, shows up all the time on time, does their best, they are a good employee.  They then screw up once, end up missing work just one time after years on the job, they are noted and written or given some type of documentation to say, "You screwed up."  They then apply for a nice cushy job at Corporate, corporate looks at their file and goes, "Utoh, he's gotta write up for being late." so they then deny him the job.

Basically that just happened to me today, I'm not gonna get into why and what I did wrong as that's between me and staff.  But I honestly think they made a mountain from a molehill in this instance, and I'm sure in other people's as well.

That is why I don't like the limit on special applications, because I just wasted one I never would have submitted if I knew that "tiny" little thing would hold me back.  This is why I don't like the account notes system, because I'm willing to bet that I have no positives on my account or if I do they aren't looked at nearly as much as my negatives.

Do I feel slighted a bit, yeah, am I allowed to feel slighted, yeah, but I know what you're going through.

Jarod

If if makes you feel any better Jarod I've never had a special application accepted for one reason or another but that's just the name of the game sometimes.  I know it's disappointing but the great thing is we are still able to roll up our regular characters, jump in to the game world and have a kick ass time.

Don't get to down man.

Brandon

What is ticking me off is that I am in a role that isn't going anywhere fast, I could be playing my pc for YEARS or more, but they still denied it, instead of waiting to review, so it's almost like I'm being told, "We know you're gonna continue to suck, denied."

[FuSoYa]

What is ticking me off is that I am in a role that isn't going anywhere fast, I could be playing my pc for YEARS or more, but they still denied it, instead of waiting to review, so it's almost like I'm being told, "We know you're gonna continue to suck, denied."

Hrmm...

I'm not quite sure I understand the reasoning you are presenting but that being said, I'm not sure that staff would base their decision on a singular character you are currently playing.

That being said though, I'm not staff.

Either way, just take it easy sleazy.

Brandon

[Rhyden]

Meh.

Karma isn't all it's cracked up to be.

I've never submitted a special app that wasn't for a leader position.

Despite this, almost every one of my "karma" characters have either ended quickly or terribly.

Mundanes ftw.