Using Whetstones

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

>es whetstone
You hold a gritty whetstone.

>use whetstone sword
You begin sharpening a curved sword.

You sharpen a curved sword.

>l sword
This three-cord sword is carved of mekillot bone, bleached white by sun exposure.
The hilt is wrapped in black leather, for a surer grip. Scroll work graces the base
of the blade, including in it an insignia of a fist eclipsing a moon.
A curved sword can be worn across one's back.
You test its weight and decide that you could use it.
A curved sword seems to be a slashing weapon.
A curved sword appears to have been recently sharpened.

Basically, whetstones would sharpen swords, axes, and daggers. The additional damage wouldn't be great, and it would wear off after a few uses (10). Whetstones would function like soap, and be used up after a while. It seems to me that bone and stone weapons could use this sort of service, and that they would go dull before long.

[Northlander]

Yay!

[Zoltan]

I just RP it. Not a bad idea, though.

[deviant storm]

I like. I do feel compelled to note that with materials like obsidian, would sharpening with a whetstone be the way to fix up the edge? I always figured they had to work the obsidian again to get that sharp edge and to take nicks out of it.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I like it, but I think I'd not want to see an increase in damage over what weapons have now as a result.

Basically I'd like to see weapons damages lowered for these types to simulate the 'dull state' and then add on sharpening on top of that to get back to where they are today.

Maybe in order to get around balancing, just lower all weapon damages by the same amount, so the club-users of the world don't have an advantage for not needing to sharpen.

I guess a dulling script (the reverse of the above) would be neater, but more work?

[Northlander]

I like it, but I think I'd not want to see an increase in damage over what weapons have now as a result.

Basically I'd like to see weapons damages lowered for these types to simulate the 'dull state' and then add on sharpening on top of that to get back to where they are today.

Maybe in order to get around balancing, just lower all weapon damages by the same amount, so the club-users of the world don't have an advantage for not needing to sharpen.

I guess a dulling script (the reverse of the above) would be neater, but more work?

Yay!

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If I remember correctly, item construction should also factor into damage. To reflect your idea, Apathy, which I don't disagree with, certain numbers in the item types equations would be lowered by a point or two. So this wouldn't be horrible.

On the other hand, making the sharpening bonus for weapons add only 1 or 2 points of damage wouldn't be overpowering either. I've always been a proponent of shorter, more damaging fights anyway, though, so my perspective on this might be a little one-sided.

[IntuitiveApathy]

If I remember correctly, item construction should also factor into damage. To reflect your idea, Apathy, which I don't disagree with, certain numbers in the item types equations would be lowered by a point or two. So this wouldn't be horrible.

On the other hand, making the sharpening bonus for weapons add only 1 or 2 points of damage wouldn't be overpowering either. I've always been a proponent of shorter, more damaging fights anyway, though, so my perspective on this might be a little one-sided.

I thought about that as well - but I figured that the damage range on things like daggers is low to begin with so adding the 1-2 points might skew them too far (especially if they're then multiplied for a backstab?).

The easy solution would be to add it as a percentage modifier, but then who knows if the code allows for that?  If that's doable I could do with say let's say, 5% for unskilled, up to 10% for skilled (or whatever percentages people like), plus, we could throw in a new skill!  Yay!  Failure could result in a negative (temp or permanent) modifier, or critical failure renders the weapon half-useless..

[solera]

Yes, or something like that, not sure if whetstones are the right tool though.  Haven't got time now, but am I thinking of a knapper...something to rework the edges anyway.  I think I read that (carru) horn is good for that??

[LoD]

I could see a lot of benefit to have degradation tables for weapons and armor, not only to pave the way for items like whetstones, but to provide a perfect modifier for creating interesting spells/effects/creatures/weather.

> Magickal spells

Code Select Expand

Sandy Wastes [NEWS]
The figure in a dark, hooded robe is here.

> say (slapping a hand to the hilt of ~sword) Keep your distance, stranger.
Slapping a hand to the hilt of a curved bone sword, you say, in sirihish:
   "Keep your distance, stranger."

A string of lucky charms swirl about the figure in a dark, hooded robe.
The figure in a dark, hooded robe utters an incantation.

Clouds of gritty black materialize out of thin air, writing about you like a ghostly serpent.
A curved bone sword has completely lost its edge.
A curved bone sword has completely lost its edge.

> Rare Creature Abilities

Code Select Expand

In an Underground Tunnel [NS]
A three-horned, black-scaled lizard is here, crawling along slowly.

>kill lizard
You slash a three-horned, black-scaled lizard's body.

You slash at a three-horned, black-scaled lizard, but it dodges out of the way.

A three-horned, black-scaled lizard rears its head back, then vomits a cloud of gritty sand at you!
A curved bone sword loses some of its edge.

You slash at a three-horned, black-scaled lizard, but it bounces off its tough hide.

You slash at a three-horned, black-scaled lizard, but it bounces off its tough hide.

> Exposure to Sandstorms

> Natural Wear and Tear

Whetstones and equivalent tools for repairing and honing other weapons, armor, or pieces of equipment could provide a lot of jobs, variety, and interesting situations.

-LoD

[musashi]

Good ideas LoD. I like the idea, but on the same note I'm wary of adding yet another timer to the game world, where much like eating and drinking, you now have a mini-game of keep your gear from falling apart.

It's never occured to me to RP sharpening my weapons IG, I admit ... since they aren't made out of metal the idea of a whetstone never crossed my mind, but I figure if I don't RP out cleaning up my gear in game, then my characters care for their gear when I'm not logged in.

[Zoltan]

Good ideas LoD. I like the idea, but on the same note I'm wary of adding yet another timer to the game world, where much like eating and drinking, you now have a mini-game of keep your gear from falling apart.

It's never occured to me to RP sharpening my weapons IG, I admit ... since they aren't made out of metal the idea of a whetstone never crossed my mind, but I figure if I don't RP out cleaning up my gear in game, then my characters care for their gear when I'm not logged in.

Heh, join the Byn and you'll have occasion to RP out cleaning and maintaining gear.

[Delstro]

I like IntuitiveApathy's idea better. I don't like LOD's examples. The Creature ability reminds me of pokemon and it looks like a magickal ability. The magickal affects would be ok at best, but again, I don't think it makes a lot of sense, even with the magick spells we have now.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'll be honest. RP without coded results tends to bug me. Let me clarify that. RP of tasks without coded results bugs me. You can RP repairing your armor, and ... guess what? You can. You can RP maintaining your weapons, and guess what? You can't even save it until it breaks mysteriously one day out of the blue.

Bah.

Whetstones are just one aspect I'd love to see filled out. If all it did was retard degradation of blades, I'd be fine with that too. I'd even prefer that to adding a bonus.

[musashi]

Maybe something other than a whetstone though ... I'm having a hard time seeing a whetstone do much for an insect mandible, or a piece of bone, or wood ...

[Qzzrbl]

Wouldn't constantly sharpening brittle materials like obsidian and bone just make them break faster?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Wouldn't constantly sharpening brittle materials like obsidian and bone just make them break faster?

Yep. I bet it would. But wouldn't constantly using brittle materials like obsidian and bone as swords and cutters of all sorts do the same thing? In fact, wouldn't it make them -all- revert to the state of clubs, actually, IF it didn't break them?

So I kind of see a double standard here. If we can use swords and axes and whatnot the way we do, we should be able to care for them, sharpen them, and so on. Obviously, they don't follow the rules of our world.

[IntuitiveApathy]

Wouldn't constantly sharpening brittle materials like obsidian and bone just make them break faster?

All you're really doing when you're sharpening something is taking material away to regain the fine edge.  In the case of material like obsidian or flint/agate/etc, I believe this is done on a larger scale because of the brittleness of the material - ie. you'd have to actually 're-flake', or chip a portion away.  I'd imagine that'd be somewhat easier to do when you're talking about a big weapon like a sword, but for a dagger, spearhead or even arrowhead, it'd be pretty tough.  Maybe if we had the associated skill put in, it'd require high level of skill and be more easily broken as a consequence of failure.  I think it'd be a good balance of having the advantage of a super-sharp weapon (compared to other material-types) and the disadvantage of not being able to sharpen it easily.

But it would also put a new dimension into the whole maintenance thing (not that it's really currently existent) - would you rather carry on using a dull weapon, or are you going to risk trying to sharpen it for that extra edge (and possibly rendering it not useful for a weapon, but still materially salvagable, or shatter/break completely)?

I like LOD's ideas, but moreso for expanding the maintenance of equipment all around and the possibility of expanding play because of it.  I've long been a proponent of more realistic armour wear and repair, and the topic seems to come up year after year.

[Majikal]

Good ideas LoD. I like the idea, but on the same note I'm wary of adding yet another timer to the game world, where much like eating and drinking, you now have a mini-game of keep your gear from falling apart.

I agree, while the ideas for expansion are pretty cool, to me the more things you tack on like just make the game feel more like a hack and slash or mini WoW, suddenly it's a new bonus that everyone wants to have tacked onto their weapons that doesn't really add any flavor to the game.

Most weapons used in the game are already rudimentary and cheap, a sharp stick of bone with a hilt, a big ass club with bone spikes, a wooden pole with a gizhat ridge making a pike etc etc. Most of these weapons would be used until broken and discarded while your more fancy weapons, razor-sharp glass-edged halfswords and your intricately detailed, dragon-etched obsidian blades of doom should be receiving the loving care and only be worn for show or brought out in the special occasions.

[spicemustflow]

What would mandatory armor and weapon maintenance add to the game besides chores for the player? You may think you enjoy it when you're doing solo rp, but I think it'd quickly lose its charm. Something like going to the toilets.

[HTX]

What would mandatory armor and weapon maintenance add to the game besides chores for the player? You may think you enjoy it when you're doing solo rp, but I think it'd quickly lose its charm. Something like going to the toilets.

Here's a compromise: don't make it necessary to maintain your weapon, but allow sharpening your blade to increase the damage it can inflict?

[The Lonely Hunter]

I've seen this put into play before and I think it is a good system. Various levels of 'sharpness' were utilized.
Sharpened kept the weapon at its original state. Broken and dull incurred penalties while the levels above sharpened gave bonuses. Perhaps only a weaponcrafter, mercenary (maybe), or salarri merchant could achieve 'honed'. Non-martial classes could achieve well-sharpened.

broken
dull
sharpened
well-sharpened
keen
honed

[Pale Horse]

What would mandatory armor and weapon maintenance add to the game besides chores for the player? You may think you enjoy it when you're doing solo rp, but I think it'd quickly lose its charm. Something like going to the toilets.

Weapons and armor already degrade and break overtime.  What's the difference?

Personally, I'd enjoy seeing the whetstones IG give some sort of benefit to weapons they're used on.  Even if it's just another repair tool, for bladed weapons that have degenerated some.  That cracked bone scimitar you're carrying around?  Alright, the cracks are along the edge of it.  Dig out a whetstone and with some time and effort, you manage to put another sharp edge on the thing.  It's not as "repaired" or "sharp" as it was, once upon a time, and it'll go back to being a "cracked scimitar" quickly enough..but for now, it's sharp and deadly again.

Note:  I'm not advocating an increase in the speed in which our items degrade.  Just that the whetstone becomes a useful object beyond just emotive RP.

P.S.  I love the sandstorm wearing on our items, idea.  More reason to fear the environment, carry a tent with you, stay indoors or make sure you're prepared when venturing outside.  But this is just me.

[LoD]

It's easy to imagine worst-case scenarios in formless mist of an idea.  I certainly wouldn't want "sharpening" weapons or repairing armor to become a time/money sink a la WoW, but I do think that they could become a nice RP and coded tool for the fighter types.  And there are many steps that could be taken to ensure that you don't have to sharpen your blade after -every- fight.

> Weapons may only be able to dull to a certain point under natural conditions.
> Whetstone and grindstone objects could be made easily available to quickly return your weapon to a higher degree of sharpness.
> Weapons may chip more easily when fighting under certain circumstances, promoting the use of varied weaponry for varied tasks:
   1. Hunting creatures with hard shells or rugged exoskeletons might chip bladed weapons more quickly.
   2. Certain types of armor might protect better against slashing vs. chopping vs. piercing vs. bludgeoning.
> Certain materials may dull more quickly/slowly, creating a demand for high-quality weapon materials.
> Edges may be able to be added to several items through the use of layering resin, then shaving away the resin to form an edge.
> Certain techniques might be able to be used by highly-talented weapons/armor crafters that prevent or discourage dulling/breaking.
> Certain herbal concoctions might yield an acid that could potentially eat away or corrode armor strength or weapon sharpness.

Many of these changes could help the player-run economy of crafted goods, making the choice of weapon and armor a much more specialized choice that doesn't require a broad understanding to use, but allows for ways to customize and tailor weapon and armor sets toward a certain career, environment, or likely task.

-LoD

[X-D]

The idea of sandstorms wearing away at weapons or armor is silly.

Unless you happen to be standing in one for a few hundred years.

And a tent? Exactly how is cloth tougher then chitin/bone/shell/wood/stone now?

As to sharpening and such. Nah.

I've seen such in other games. It ends in either being an annoyance, ignored or a major part of the game (IE, like WoW and others).

If the "sharpening" Adds enough to be noticed then it becomes something everybody is always after...and in an unrealistic fashion. If the bonus is small, nobody really cares. If it is large but Dulling happens quickly it is just an annoyance that eventualy ends in being basicly ignored because it is simpler and easier to just buy cheap weapons, use them up and toss them aside.

Now, that being said. What I would NOT mind on whetstones is if they could put a flag on the weapon and 2 words to the sdesc or mdesc.

As it sits, weapons, unlike armor do not show wear. Armor does, You know when it is getting close to breaking. 

So, my suggestion is that by use of whetstone and maybe other things, like the stuff LoD suggested. You could add a nobreak flag and have it show.

Code Select Expand

inv

you are carrying:
A bone sword.

use whetstone sword
You smooth and polish a bone sword.

inv

you are carrying:
A well maintained bone sword.

Now, while it has that flag, it will not break.

A simple message during combat to let you know the flag is gone and you are golden.

Maybe even have it so that skilled people could add more "Layers" Of protection.

But no matter how well maintained the weapon is, I would not like to see it doing more damage, being more accurate, faster, whatever. No.

[Ourla]

I like it, but I think I'd not want to see an increase in damage over what weapons have now as a result.

Basically I'd like to see weapons damages lowered for these types to simulate the 'dull state' and then add on sharpening on top of that to get back to where they are today.

[musashi]

I'm with X-D on this one. I'm not really feeling the "lets give it extra damage by keeping it sharpened all the time" idea. Seems like it would make the game a little less RP oriented, and a little more like an MMO.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I like it, but I think I'd not want to see an increase in damage over what weapons have now as a result.

Basically I'd like to see weapons damages lowered for these types to simulate the 'dull state' and then add on sharpening on top of that to get back to where they are today.

I'm so waiting for my badge to arrive in the mail!

I still think if done correctly, weapon and armour maintenance has great potential for enhancing play.  It would need to be balanced with the economics of it - is it just too much of a bother or too expensive to maintain and simply more convenient/cheaper to buy a brand new weapon?  But that's not unsolvable at all.

[Solifugid]

Having once spent a lot of time on a MUD that included mandatory weapons maintainance and sharpening bonuses, I can safely say it was the most retarded thing you have ever seen.

Maybe it can be handled realistically, but I'm perfectly comfortable with leaving this firmly in the realm of RP.

[Salt Merchant]

Having once spent a lot of time on a MUD that included mandatory weapons maintainance and sharpening bonuses, I can safely say it was the most retarded thing you have ever seen.

Maybe it can be handled realistically, but I'm perfectly comfortable with leaving this firmly in the realm of RP.

I agree that it just sounds like a chore.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I would like to see weapons get the same attention as armor requires. Nothing anyone can say can convince me that it's a bad idea. Frequency could be an issue, though, so on that, I'm amiable.

[MarshallDFX]

I would support this, as a coded RP thingy... Much the same way that I think we should have coded musical ability (opens a whole new music teacher profession, prevents instapro-musicians).  But I would be quite wary of making the dull-punishments too great, or the required maintenance to frequent.

It should be more about the statement.  Having that tiny extra edge, than a constant, coded necessity.

[Sephiroto]

I like this more as an RP tool than anything else.  I wouldn't mind at all to see flags that indicate the well keeping of the blade but don't necessarily see any real reason to have it affect the damage.

Its all about the appearance.  Its what separates gith scum from Bynner lowlifes from Tor Scorpions (poor > normal > well-kept).  Presently a sword is a sword is a sword, and a shield is a shield, but a new RP tools for weapons and armors would help us give the appearances we want our characters to have without spending ridiculous amounts of time sharpening blades over and over and over.

[Synthesis]

This idea needs a whetstone.

(It's dull, for you dullards.)

[solera]

PRESSURE FLAKING- Flakes are pushed off of a preform edge using pressure from an antler or copper tipped tool.  A lot of times this is the final stage of stone tool making as the edge is straightened and sharpened and the final retouch is accomplished.

Retouching..this is the type of sharpening I was thinking of, rather than a whetstone.

[Pale Horse]

I like this more as an RP tool than anything else.  I wouldn't mind at all to see flags that indicate the well keeping of the blade but don't necessarily see any real reason to have it affect the damage.

Its all about the appearance.  Its what separates gith scum from Bynner lowlifes from Tor Scorpions (poor > normal > well-kept).  Presently a sword is a sword is a sword, and a shield is a shield, but a new RP tools for weapons and armors would help us give the appearances we want our characters to have without spending ridiculous amounts of time sharpening blades over and over and over.

I like this idea.

  Have it so that a piece of armor or a weapon that's been codedly upkept, by use of armor brushes, whetstones, judicial use of the repair skill, and said items get a nice, shiny description flag added to them, like "well kept".  Perhapse no further coded "benefit" than that.
  This way, you can tell at a glance the type of fighter a Bynner, Militia member, Tor Scorpian or Jihaen Templar might be.  Bynners have normal to shit covered items.  Militia members run the gamet of shoddy to well kept, Tor Scorpians all have that nice shiny flag (and if not, they get their asses reamed and confined to the barracks, spit shinning until their Silver can see the faces of their unborn grandchildren in it's surface, Cadet!!!!), and Jihaen's end up with the "new and shinny" flag to all their equipment, as everyone knows they just have to poke a finger into your shoulder, causing internal rupturing of the heart.  None of that bloody business needed.
  Southern Templars can look however the hell they want.  It might become the new vogue for them to walk around, wearing the desicated facial skins of the last grebber to fail to undergo the proper rites for worship of the Highlord.

[deviant storm]

Personally, I like X-D's idea best. Have the weapons be maintainable, to slow down the breaking process. This way all weapons are included, even the clubs.  I see it fit better in Arm than bonuses/penalties for how sharp weapons are.

And I disagree with anyone who thinks that weapons would/should 'look the part'. I mean, what Byn mercenary would not maintain their weapon to the highest ability they could? Their sword is their bread and butter. I really think it would be up to the individual to decide how much time they are willing to spend maintaining their weapon.

[RogueGunslinger]

(It's dull, for you dullards.)

Nowadays people look more cleverer when they don't explain their jokes/insults/puns. I'm glad you did for this one though, I'd have felt more pompous otherwise.

[Northlander]

I want to crash into a tavern and start handing whetstones around. I'd be the whetstone-lender, with a nose for impending combat. I'd like to slide into trenches with my arms full of whetstones. Picture them like spare ammo in a war film and you've got to see the awesomeness in this idea.

[Spice Spice Baby]

what Byn mercenary would not maintain their weapon to the highest ability they could? Their sword is their bread and butter. I really think it would be up to the individual to decide how much time they are willing to spend maintaining their weapon.

I think the idea was more that Byn mercenaries probably can't afford the same degree of high-level maintenance that a Tor Scorpion could, not that they wouldn't spend time doing it.

[Synthesis]

(It's dull, for you dullards.)

Nowadays people look more cleverer when they don't explain their jokes/insults/puns. I'm glad you did for this one though, I'd have felt more pompous otherwise.

I just couldn't resist throwing another pun in there.

[Kol]

I dont like the idea of having them give any coded benifit to the weapons at all.
Its moving Arm one step closer to returning it to a hack'n'slash, and Roleplay is -the- reason I play arm, If a I wanted to simply run around with all my uber kit, bashing things, I'd go back to playing World of Wierdos.

I like this more as an RP tool than anything else.  I wouldn't mind at all to see flags that indicate the well keeping of the blade but don't necessarily see any real reason to have it affect the damage.

Its all about the appearance.  Its what separates gith scum from Bynner lowlifes from Tor Scorpions (poor > normal > well-kept).  Presently a sword is a sword is a sword, and a shield is a shield, but a new RP tools for weapons and armors would help us give the appearances we want our characters to have without spending ridiculous amounts of time sharpening blades over and over and over.

^^^^^^^ This, However, I can toatally get down with.