Casual Game Play

[Gimfalisette]

Y'all missed my suggestion for meeting new people, which was: Turn the bartender NPCs into general, site-specific rumor boards that anyone can post to. Then if Amos is looking for a job, he can post generally; or if Talia is looking for someone to sell her pebbles they're gathering, she can post generally. This is the kind of "meeting people" I mean--all those times where you want to meet an agent or a merchant or a bard or a grebber or a traveler or an explorer or a hunter or a crafter. Using the current game systems, it is often prohibitively difficult to make those connections given a limited number and contiguity of play hours.

Other than that, yeah, finding a new bed-buddy is going to be harder for a casual player. Personally, I can live with that.

[musashi]

Ah, while we may not have covered that in the last posts we made for summarizing, I believe it was covered in earlier posts. Boards outside of clan compounds, or perhaps an area of the marketplace where one could go to find work or offer their own services were some of the ideas offered up to assist in making connections with other PC's.

[Gimfalisette]

I should point out that I'm not particularly invested in any specific solutions to the problems of casual players. (Market board, bartender, board somewhere else, I really don't care as long as the solution correctly addresses the problem.) What concerns me is that we, as a community, should:

-- Develop an empathy for and understanding of the needs and desires of casual players
-- Change and enhance the game's systems somehow in order to respond to those needs and desires
-- Profit! Potentially, grow the game as a consequence

[Thunkkin]

I'd like to post again in favour of an increased number of local boards (whether that be bartenders, boards outside clan compounds, etc. - the exact details don't bother me).  Having recently played a merchanty PC that sold goods to other PCs, I know for certain that there were people out there that probably would have loved to order things from me, but simply couldn't, because our play times didn't match.

If PCs had had a way to get me a message, I could have easily made time in my day, regardless of their play times, to log in and catch them and take their orders and chat briefly.  That means more fun, more plots, more RP, more trade/business, etc.  So, I would see these increased means of communication as facilitating interaction between high and low play-times players.  I'm sure that I'm not alone among players who (currently) have a flexible schedule and could easily pop in at certain times in order to help an off-peak or casual player.  But as it stands, these people would have had a very difficult time reaching me otherwise.

Imagine someone posting "Amos is looking to buy some jozhal warmers.  He's been loitering around the gate (3:00 PM EST weekdays) asking if any merchants are free to help him."  Reply: "Merchant Poopypants has asked a guard to pass the word on to Amos that he'll be able to make a space in his busy tregil-grooming schedule to meet with him about the jozhal warmers.  This will be in two weeks (Wed, Aug 13, 3:00 PM EST)."

Boom.  What's not to like?

[Cowboy]

I would prefer that staff work on Arm.2 and current plots and issues, rather try to accomodate the
desires of a few players.  Remember, this is a game and players choose how much time they put into
playing.  When someone says "I can only play an hour a day or 6 hours a week? what they mean is
I choose to only play an hour a day.  If your life is so full of fun, work, family, friends, other games, etc.,
Why does Armageddon have to change to make more fun for you in one hour of the day?  Because
your casual playing enhances the overall feel of the game? It does not for me and there are planty of examples
of casual players now...think about it.  Increase the number of casual players?  I don't know how many more
casual players the game can handle without changing into something...er casual.  Communicating without being
around? skill increases?  automatic buying and selling?  Pick you spots and fit in as you can, add something to the
current game atmosphere.   If you aren't having fun, don't waste your hour a day here.  if you are having fun,
than you have decisions to make in your own life about time management.

[musashi]

Cowboy, I don't know if you meant it as such, but suggesting that another player's contribution to the game does nothing to contribute to the feel of the game, sort of makes you seem like a rude teenager. On top of that, I find the statement flatly false.

The more players we have, casual or not, the more the feel of the game is enhanced. Talking about (hopefully) easily implemented ideas that would allow players with less time to play or who play during a different time to still interact with the rest of the playerbase is a good thing. I can't imagine why anyone would think that it's a bad thing.

When you say people "choose" to play the game for just an hour a day, you're right ... but it makes you sound really immature to me for saying it like that; like you're living with your parents and currently in school or somehing. I think it's akin to telling a working single mother struggling to hold down a job, pay tuition, and pass her classes that she's not a good friend because she "chooses" to forgo hanging out with you as much as you'd like. In a way ... yes you're right she's making choices, but in another way ... you're kind of an unempathetic jerk.  

I'm not trying to attack you or anything, just trying to let you know how the tone and meaning of your post came off to me, and possibly other people. We're all trying to enjoy the game, and I think that the suggestions folks have been offering are not so off the wall as to be dismissed out of hand. If someone says they can't enjoy the game unless dwarves have beards and steel scimitars are available at chargen ... then yes I'm with you in telling them that they need to change to fit the game.

But someone saying that they would enjoy the game more if there was a way for them to better interact with the rest of the players despite their limited online time; that sounds much more reasonable to me, and something that I think should be addressed.

[Cowboy]

Musashi..this isn't real life, this is a game.  We all choose how much time we spend IG.  No name calling please.

[musashi]

I'm not name calling, I'm letting you know that I think your opinion lacks depth, and that saying other players contribute nothing to the game for you is a rude, unthoughtful statement.

[Qzzrbl]

You need to be involved to be involved. Rather than have blanket go-arounds for having a skilled, well-connected character from the get-go...

This....

[jcljules]

If you can't play very often, find a role that will allow you to have fun anyway. Change the way that you play to accommodate your limitations. Don't expect the game to change to accommodate you.

[FantasyWriter]

If you can't play very often, find a role that will allow you to have fun anyway. Change the way that you play to accommodate your limitations. Don't expect the game to change to accommodate you.

Also, if you have to have a message board to be involved with a certain PC, you shouldn't be wasting theirs and your time when you could both be playing with people who have similar play times.  For example if you want to join the Byn, but can NEVER run into even a runner, what good would being able to leve a message for a sergeant do if once hired, there was never anyone in the clan to interact with while you were on.  You're better off doing something else.

Side note: There is a person who has been in the same clan as I have for almost six months.  I saw them the day they got hired and that was it.  I play 8-12 hours a day.  Should the leader for said clan be expected to pay them for every month that they've been around even though they've only logged in four or five times in half a year?

[LoD]

Casual players who are kept interested and relevant are far more likely to:

> Continue contributing good word-of-mouth (i.e. free marketing) for the game.
> Introduce friends to the game.
> Be motivated to find ways to increase the amount of time they can play.
> Feel invested and connected with the game, thus more likely to keep playing.
> Help make the game world feel more "full" and "varied".

Casual players who struggle to keep interested or feel relevant are far more likely to contribute the following:

>

-LoD

[musashi]

Casual players who are kept interested and relevant are far more likely to:

> Continue contributing good word-of-mouth (i.e. free marketing) for the game.
> Introduce friends to the game.
> Be motivated to find ways to increase the amount of time they can play.
> Feel invested and connected with the game, thus more likely to keep playing.
> Help make the game world feel more "full" and "varied".

Casual players who struggle to keep interested or feel relevant are far more likely to contribute the following:

>

-LoD

[Nyr]

I think you both have good points--there's no need to call someone an unempathetic jerk, rude, and unthoughtful for stating a valid point.  Time management is an important part of every person's life, and not everyone is a casual player.

However, we can also look at other options for casual players.

[Cowboy]

Musashi..has every player you have interacted with, in the game, contributed to your gaming experience? Not been that way for me.  Players that show up for a few hours a RL week do not add anything to the game for me.  I can't RP (this is an Rp game) with them if they are not around,  I am frustrated because I want to help them, they aren't around for this or that, players come and go and never know them....As has been stated, the player needs to make the best of their situation.  I simply don't believe that the game needs to change to fit each individual playing choices.  So, where do you draw the line with this?  Technically speaking,  how many hours of play, per week,  makes a player a casual player? Less then ten? less the five? and if a casual player can play 25 hours some weeks, do they give up their skill increases?  or will you move from casual player to  "real' player = one that chooses to spend more time IG?  Will there be a defintion and a flag for the type of player you are?  No, just leave it be.  and to Lod...some casual players might do some of those things.

[musashi]

Sorry if my post came off as attacking you, that was not the intention.

I'm personally not in favor of skill increases for anyone aside from special-app characters, as is the current way of doing things. So I don't really have anything to contribute to that aspect of the thread beyond: I'm in favor of keeping skill gaining the way it is now.

But I do feel that by providing ways for low playtime, or off-peak playtimes players to get messages and services delivered, and perhaps even clan recruiting done ... we could free up some of those low playtime folk's time so that they would have more time to: Skill gain like the rest of us, and roleplay with other people.

I don't think that just because my interaction with a player in the game wasn't signifigant, that the player's contribution to the game at large must likewise, not be signifigant. That's the point I wanted to put to you.

[Twilight]

Unless you do not let yourself be impacted by anyone else's plots or plans, I would say it would be incredibly hard not to be impacted by a casual player.  This doesn't mean they need to be your significant other IG, but plots are often tangled webs.  Even if you are not directly impacted by a casual player, other people most likely have been, and to the extent they influence your character...your character is being indirectly influenced by a casual player.  I've been impacted in less than five minutes of RP with other people...RP doesn't need to be sustained to be valuable.

Unique account logins vary between 200-300 or so per week?  I can't remember the number of accounts there are, but quite a bit larger than this.  If you compared the 200-300 unique logins vs the number off accounts with a character logged into in the last 3-6 months, my guess would be that there are quite a few casual players.  I find it hard to believe no one would ever be impacted by any of them.

[MarshallDFX]

You need to be involved to be involved. Rather than have blanket go-arounds for having a skilled, well-connected character from the get-go...

This....

This again.
Games will always be dominated by those who have the most time to put into them.

However, I'd support a few simpler things to ease player communications.  The boards, rumours etc.

[FantasyWriter]

But I do feel that by providing ways for low playtime, or off-peak playtimes players to get messages and services delivered, and perhaps even clan recruiting done ... we could free up some of those low playtime folk's time so that they would have more time to: Skill gain like the rest of us, and roleplay with other people.

What would you hope to gain by joining a clan in which you couldn't interact with other PCs enough to even get hired after a RL week?

[musashi]

But I do feel that by providing ways for low playtime, or off-peak playtimes players to get messages and services delivered, and perhaps even clan recruiting done ... we could free up some of those low playtime folk's time so that they would have more time to: Skill gain like the rest of us, and roleplay with other people.

What would you hope to gain by joining a clan in which you couldn't interact with other PCs enough to even get hired after a RL week?

I wrote a really long post about that at the tail end of page 3 in this thread. In it I was talking about the different ways in which an off-peak/low play time character could make a difference in their clan, if we had the aforeentioned messages and services type things implemented.

[Melody]

If you can't play very often, find a role that will allow you to have fun anyway. Change the way that you play to accommodate your limitations. Don't expect the game to change to accommodate you.

Time management. Productivity. Efficiency. Adjustment of expectations. Are hard to achieve.

Before: 1 playing day a week
Now : 1 playing day 2 months

Result : Unless I can log on frequently and hit 10 hours a week at least, I don't play arm. So every year, there are half of the months where I go play other games.

Reason: Time management and picking the right roles for the time frame are all nice things to say. But I might not necessarily know what those roles involve, or what roles would suit me, or what roles I would enjoy.

Below are just personal opinions:

Lone grebber: I've never mined or cut trees or whatever for a living. I don't consider it fun. I'd rather go chew on my hand than play one.

D-elf: If I like solo play, it would be perfect. But I hate solo play unless it is to rp and enjoy the aftermath of something major to my character.

Comic relief: It was fun the first time. The second time. The....  then after a while, I might have had a bad hair day, and thoughts like this pops up: most people are so boring. They kept sitting there and waiting for me to entertain them. Why can't they do something interesting for me once?

Clanned chars: Last week I met 10 pcs. This week, 0.5 of them is alive. (9 dead, 1 became inactive)

Unclanned chars: What is there to do apart from meeting new faces constantly in the tavern? Life is like watching a character generator displaying result.

Mages: It's like rping d-elf but instead of super combat, they get magic. Sure, mentality is different and blah blah. If I like solo play, I would... but what is the point of playing an on-line interactive game now?

Whore/drunk: (someone mentioned it before)  Have you ever rped a drunk? I have. A whore? I have. Please see above on Comic Relief. Same with beggar.

Bard/spy: I think people would rather kill me irl than listening to me playing a radio station in the game. As for spy, information is like vegetables, only good when fresh. Unless I am doing people study. In which case, by the time I can submit the findings to the employer, they have already had the person assassinated/bribed/whatever. I suppose I could rp the most inefficient spy in the world.

Explorer: I am always interested in watching people trying to explore with newbie resource. I'm researching the top 10 PC killers the other day. The top three is X-D, Templars, Scrabs, maybe random exploration can be a fourth.

Scout: Have you ever even played an outdoor scout? Yes. So much cool things out there! I bet I can be the pc #100000 to have find that cool thing everyone saw around 5 years ago.

Raiders: To play a good raider takes a lot of work. A casual time raider is... hard. Let's just stop here.

.......

What else? So my point being, it would be nice if there is some kind of assistance, advices, like the local council helping people finding new jobs. Only, you are helping me/provide assistance for me to find and enjoy a new role.

[spawnloser]

And what happens if there are TWO Talias in the game? What happens if you leave a message for the tall dark handsome man, and there are three of them. What if both Talias are the tressy-tressed woman? What happens if Talia the tressy-tressed woman is wearing a mask? What makes you think the NPC would recognize her to give her the message, if the NPC has never met her?

> deliver talia.tall.dark.handsome

If you match all keywords supplied, even if the message wasn't intended for you, you get the message.  It should all be charged to the sender, however.

[flurry]

The problem I see the most when I cut back on my playtimes (and mind you, I'm certainly not "hardcore", I maybe average a little more than two hours a day, if no RPTs are going on) is the general disconnect from other PCs.

Same here, and as others have said, code changes may have little effect on that. The core problem seems to be in the disconnect, and the feeling that the plots and events are passing you by.

The veteran idea is interesting, but I wonder (a) how much that would actually fix anything, and (b) whether that might be something better off done via special apps.

I agree with Lizzie about the benefits of playing consistently even if you're not playing a lot of hours. If you're around in some kind of predictable fashion, that goes a long way.

I've said this before, but a clan forum can be a casual player's best friend. Post your playtimes, or post when you're going to be gone for a month. If your clanmates know when to expect to see you, they're probably be quicker to invest time into getting your character involved.

It's all a difficult issue, and I feel for the people who want to have more fun on limited playtimes. Although I don't typically fall into the "casual player" category, I do at times, and I've felt that frustration before.

Lastly, I'll say I'd love to see a player guide written on suggestions for casual players, and also for getting casual players involved.

[staggerlee]

If you can't play very often, find a role that will allow you to have fun anyway. Change the way that you play to accommodate your limitations. Don't expect the game to change to accommodate you.

Time management. Productivity. Efficiency. Adjustment of expectations. Are hard to achieve.

Before: 1 playing day a week
Now : 1 playing day 2 months

Result : Unless I can log on frequently and hit 10 hours a week at least, I don't play arm. So every year, there are half of the months where I go play other games.

Reason: Time management and picking the right roles for the time frame are all nice things to say. But I might not necessarily know what those roles involve, or what roles would suit me, or what roles I would enjoy.

This is the heart of the matter. A lot of players, experienced or otherwise are turning away from the game due to the massive time requirements. Some exceptional people make the game work with only a few hours a week, but they are the exception. Expecting those people to find ways to make the game work for them is fine, but nobody should be surprised if they just turn away.

I'm looking at this as a problem to be solved more than anything. If the player base and staff want a healthy, growing community than I would imagine that making the game accessible to players would be a good idea. Especially if that can be done without sacrificing any of what makes the game great.

The question on the table is "How could the game accommodate more players?" I'm not sure how that's raising so much hostility. If you don't like the individual solutions, fine, but that's another story. On the same note, don't gripe too much about how individual proposals work out, none of them are anywhere near implemented and in the end it's up to the staff to decide how and when to make those work.

As someone that doesn't play games anymore (except for money! teehee!) I'm not horribly vested in the results of the discussion or the decisions made here. However... I'd really like to see the game and its community grow and move in a positive, exciting direction. I don't see how anyone could be opposed to that. Keep in mind that this is an opportunity for people who do play the game, more than for people who don't. There's a lot of other things in the world for those who don't play it to do with their time. This thread really seems to be getting really dichotomized and oppositional, and I have no idea why.

[musashi]

This thread really seems to be getting really dichotomized and oppositional, and I have no idea why.

I think the topic of skill advancement is really at the core of it. Seems like the folks who don't want to entertain the idea of any changes keep picking that one out of the bunch.

I don't care for the idea of changing that much myself. Quite possible that "more time played = more codedly powerful character" is just deeply ingrained in a large portion of the playerbase, and perhaps righty so.