Togglable Hunt

[IAmJacksOpinion]

From X-D in another forum.

Why does hunt have a delay anyway? I really think the person who put it in has no real life tracking skills or even did any research. If I'm tracking a deer I shot, I don't walk 20 feet, stop for 5 minutes looking around and move on, rinse repeat.

I walk along following the tracks as I go. The only time I might have to stop and start a search pattern is if the deer somehow found a 100 yard area of bare rock and made a turn in a random direction while on it.

A-freakin-greed. When tracking a deer I just shot, I just look for blood in the damned snow. Also, they're running all injured and uncoordinated, so there's leaves kicked up, etc. A dear trail is so ridiculously easy to follow, someone without a hunt skill (Myself, IRL since I've only hunted one year and found it boring) can RUN and hunt a dear. Literally. It's that simple.  I haven't hunted in 8 years and I could go find one right now!

So, when hunting, why doesn't it work like this:

Code Select Expand


hunt
You crouch and look for tracks...

A long-strided humanoid has arrived from the west recently.
A long-strided humanoid left to the east recently.
A six-legged bug as moved in from the south many hours ago.
A six-legged bug has left north many hours ago.

look
Desert
 It's sandy here.
-Long-strided humanoid tracks enter from the west and leave eastward recently.
-A six-legged bug has moved from south to north here, many hours ago.

e
More Desert
 It's even sandier here, if that's possible.
-Long-strided humanoid tracks enter from the west and leave eastward.




So, basically you would pick up a trail, and notice it as you moved from room to room. If you lose it, hunt again.

Essentially, track would work like listen / scan now do.

[Lizzie]

It would be almost unfathomably spammy if it was togglable though.

Some indoor room where a person with city-hunt would be capable of seeing footprints (E, W, U)
   This room is filled with stuff, and stuffed with sand and filled with hides hanging on
racks, implements of crafting and doing all kinds of things lining the walls, and a
few scattered racks for the stuff.  The room itself is carved out of a big cave in
a hole in the ground in some place, that isn't fitting when compared to the environment,
although it is quite apparent that the something is of high quality.  Several of
a few thingss line one wall, containing stuff to be used for a few different things.
Something has been done to the stone walls in a manner that does something
to the things of stuff and stuff ipsum lorum difinitusom the room.  Along one
ipsum lorem lipucari niftil disiclaram.
A big fat box rests here with a special arranged ldesc.
With its own ldesc, a large obsidian bin sits here in the corner.
Adding its own spam to the room, a large obsidian bin sits here in a corner.
Providing more spam to the room, a large agafari chest sits here.
A large agafari chest is overfilled with stuff of its own type.
Line 27 is taken by a box.
Line 28 is taken by another box.
Line 29 is taken by some cabinets.
Line 30 is taken by a workshop thing that belongs in this room, which is obviously some kind of workshop and actually makes use of all the crap in here.
Line 31 has its own ldesc because it's awesome and cool.
Your guard is here, being a guard.
An NPC is here, being an NPC.
Employee #1 is here, standing and talking to you.
Employee #2 is here, getting ready to die.
Employee #3 is here, snickering at employee #2.
Your fuck-buddy is here, getting dressed.
A long-strided person just went north.
A humanoid went south recently.
A half-giant-tracked person with lots of bloodstains went east.
Blood rivulets track the ground.
The battle ensues.

You type Look and see..
ALL OF THE ABOVE PLUS BATTLE SPAM PLUS MORE BLOOD RIVULETS AND YOUR EYES START TO BLEED BECAUSE YOU REALLY DON'T NEED TO SEE THOSE FUCKING TRACKMARKS ANYMORE BUT IT WAS TOO SPAMMY TO EVEN REALIZE YOU HAD IT RUNNING.

[Delstro]

That is why you don't kill people in a compound!

If someone attacked you, you would have to re-hunt, as you most likely turned your vision to the other soul trying to kill you vice the trail of blood.

[Majikal]

I'd rather have the option to deal with that spam and run that bleeding fucker down in a timely, realistic fashion instead of getting zig-zag dodged all the way to nearest town. Toggle hunt would be awesome, insta-hunt check upon entering a room.

toggle-hunt FTW, maybe toss one of those stun penalties on there like scan/guard/listen.

[Lizzie]

I like hunt exactly the way it is now. It gives me something interesting to explore and stories to create, when I'm playing a ranger riding along the road. Most of the time, my ranger doesn't give a shit what kind of footprints are on the road. But sometimes..she might want to check just a little something here, or a little something there. Or maybe she's tracking something specific that has evaded her up until now. It gives me a reason to STOP MOVING and examine the room description, examine the environment my character is in, to pay attention to things.

Currently I don't have a character that even has the hunt skill. But when I do have one (which is often), I like using it, in the way it is coded to be used now.

Also, I'm adding - I enjoy roleplaying out teaching how to track for things. I like that the hunt skill is a "momentary" thing..perhaps, at best, I wouldn't mind it to continue to show the tracks, for as long as you remain stationary. As soon as you move to another room, you'd have to use the command again. But typing "look" in the room you just used it in, would show you the tracks again, with whatever time changes apply.

[Eloran]

Think your character could keep a trail at a dead run? Could desert elves?

I think you're overestimating your RL tracking ability.

[Lizzie]

N/T

[X-D]

Totally agree with OP and Majickal.

Keeping tracks at a dead run? Easy, specialy when the target is also running.

It is not a matter of overestimating tracking ability. It is have some real knowledge of the subject.

Not like many of you that seem to only have what you see in the movies.

Some guy who might be native american stops and looks around the woods, after five minutes he stops.

Some guy that might be a native american says in silly stunted english pointing at a broken branch, "He go that way."

Give me a break. In reality, tracks, once found are SILLY HARD to lose unless something forces you to lose them.

Then, consider that Zalanthus is 99% SAND! Ever been in a desert or sandy area? Huh? Tracks might as well be glowing bright green. Tracking in the sand is about the same as tracking in the snow. Many of you have had experiance with snow, sure, over a matter of hours or days, wind might wipe out the tracks, but until it does, a half blind child can follow them no fail.


The only time tracking gets even mildly hard is on bare rock, something zalanthus has very little of and through deep leafy forest area, something zalanthus has none of.

The Op may have only hunted for a year, But I've been hunting since I was 8, thats thirty years. I've tracked animals of every size from squirrel to bear and moose and sometimes humans for entertainment (humans being the easiest by far).

As for the worry of spam...Um, Duh, thats why its toggled, don't like the spam, toggle off, problem solved.

[Eloran]

Keeping tracks at a dead run? Easy, specialy when the target is also running.

Are you listening to yourself? If you've ever hunted in the brush of west Texas, which to me is somewhat comparable to the scrub surrounding Tuluk, you cannot keep track of a blood trail at a dead run unless you've had a perfect lung shot so that blood bubbles in bunches with meat and tissue. It is simply not possible. When tracking I catch a trail, move in that general direction, pause, scour the ground, pick up the trail again, and continue until I've caught my quarry. I cannot, nor have I ever been able to, keep my eyes on the ground in a full sprint and keep sight of a blood trail that may or not be providing a wide enough spill area.

It is not a matter of overestimating tracking ability. It is have some real knowledge of the subject.

Whatever you say. 

Not like many of you that seem to only have what you see in the movies.

I've been an avid hunter since childhood. We could have a real discussion, or we could both wave our dicks about and present anecdotal evidence.

Then, consider that Zalanthus is 99% SAND! Ever been in a desert or sandy area? Huh? Tracks might as well be glowing bright green.

Are you saying that everyone should be given the hunt skill then? What about rocky areas? Forest areas? Scrub areas? Should you take bigger negatives to your toggable hunt skill then?

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Amendment: You can only see tracks you've already found, as long as you move linearly along them from room to room. Hence - Taking up the trail!

Also, sometimes you lose them (code failure or whatever) and need to hunt again to find them again.

Code Select Expand


track
-Some stupid elf has traveled east recently.

e
Another room
-stupid elf tracks come in from the west and leave to the east.
>hunt
-Some stupid elf tracks move in from the west recently.
-Some stupid elf tracks move out to the east recently.
-Some fat beetle tracks move to the north.

e
Room Numbero Trace
-Some stupid elf tracks go from west to east here.

n
A Room Without Track Echoes
There is simple, purely un-altered sand here.

w (thus bringing me to the room just north of where I picked up the beetle tracks)
A Room, North of Some Beetle Tracks
Nothing here champ. Don't even look.

hunt
-Some fat beetle tracks come in from the South.
-Some fat beetle tracks move to the north.

n
A Hastily Prepared Room
A description is written here.

Think Huh.. Lost my beetle tracks..
hunt
-Some fat Beetle tracks have arrived from the south.
Some fat beetle tracks move west.

think There they are. Back to the hunt!

w skipping along merrily with a more realistic track code on his side.



PS: For you movie-goers, even Aragorn tracked the Uruk-Hai at a dead sprint with an elf oggling his ass, and a dwarf grumbling obscenities in Mirrukim. Feel free to come in your pants at the reference.

Also, what's spammier? Noticing and following a trail, or moving through the desert like this:

Code Select Expand


hunt
mount
east
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
west
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
west
dismount
hunt
mount
west
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
east
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
west
dismount
hunt
mount
west
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
north
dismount
hunt
mount
west
dismount
hunt
mount

[Riev]

I agree with all the sentiments here, besides Eloran's attempt to be the new Desertman. I would take X-D's advice on hunting and I don't even know the guy, because what he has said, I have confirmed in my own section.

Togglable Hunt would be a great idea, ESPECIALLY now that everything is togglable. Scan, listen, watch... all these things are togglable. Heck, the stun drain for newbs alone with all these things on would make them easy prey for a sappin'.

I have never really been able to hunt PCs, even with a Ranger, because of move speed and hunt lag. Sure they moved east, but I still can't find where they went? In the sand? While riding a mountainous pack beast?


+1 for toggleable hunt, if details can be hammered out.

[Sephiroto]

For the most part I like the ideas presented here.  I am for a toggleable hunt for following trails.  I like the idea of finding and following tracks to be more easy or difficult on different terrain (tracking over rock is harder) and depending on the size and weight of the target.

[a strange shadow]

Make the difficulty of maintaining the trail correlate to how fast you're moving. Run = hardest, walk = neutral, sneak = easier.

[Qzzrbl]

Are you listening to yourself? If you've ever hunted in the brush of west Texas, which to me is somewhat comparable to the scrub surrounding Tuluk, you cannot keep track of a blood trail at a dead run unless you've had a perfect lung shot so that blood bubbles in bunches with meat and tissue. It is simply not possible. When tracking I catch a trail, move in that general direction, pause, scour the ground, pick up the trail again, and continue until I've caught my quarry. I cannot, nor have I ever been able to, keep my eyes on the ground in a full sprint and keep sight of a blood trail that may or not be providing a wide enough spill area.

Yeah, I remember going hog hunting in west Texas last year, if your shot didn't drop them and they ran off into the brush, you might as well just give it up.

Thick and tangled bush with the ever-loving cactus thrown in every so often. Not to mention -everything- there has thorns.

I'd like to see the landscape your in make a difference in tracking.

Finding and following tracks in open desert is one thing, but tracking in thick brush is too.

[Eloran]

Make the difficulty of maintaining the trail correlate to how fast you're moving. Run = hardest, walk = neutral, sneak = easier.

The only way I'd be for the idea is if the above were taken into account, as well as the terrain.

[X-D]

who said anything about blood? It is not reliable for tracking, specialy if you are a bow hunter, which I am, if my arrow lodges in the shoulder blade there will be little blood in the beginning. I'm talking about following them tiny hoof prints spread 8 feet apart while the deer is still running.

Are you saying that everyone should be given the hunt skill then? What about rocky areas? Forest areas? Scrub areas? Should you take bigger negatives to your toggable hunt skill then?

Have you really ever paid attention to the room descs in game or even to what staff has said on the subject in the past or the many pics people have posted that staff has said is very close to what a zalanthus forest is?

Even a forest room is, according to description and staff comments, 90%+ sand, a tree here and there maybe a few bushes. Scrub is the same without the trees and the grasslands are mostly sand with tufts of grass and very low shrubs here and there. IE, death valley has more vegitation. Rocky areas? There is almost always sand blowing about, most rocky areas would have a covering of sand with rocks poking out of it. I admit, it should be the hardest place to track other then the salt flats, but not impossible by any means.

Should everybody get the hunt skill...No, because though I think it is quite easy, if you have zero experiance/training you might have a hard time at it.

As to negs to the skill...Yes, it should be harder in some places then others. Open dunes, easy but with short timers, blowing sand covers tracks fast, Scrub and grasses, easy, forest, zalanthun style, even easier, steps/mountains/salt flats, Very very hard. Hell, that would even mean that somebody being chased, who was smart would head towards areas where his/her tracks would be more easily lost.
   

Again, barring the thornlands (which still state mostly sand) And certain other areas too IC to mention. There is no thick brush in zalanthus...no thick anything cept for sand or silt.

[Thunkkin]

I like this.

I don't care whether it's realistic or not.  Being unable to see diagonally is also unrealistic.  This would compensate nicely and would lead to much more interesting chases.

[Majikal]

who said anything about blood? It is not reliable for tracking, specialy if you are a bow hunter, which I am, if my arrow lodges in the shoulder blade there will be little blood in the beginning. I'm talking about following them tiny hoof prints spread 8 feet apart while the deer is still running.

And you gotta remember that it's Zalanthas, the smallest shit you're ever really chasing is humanoids, more often then not those humanoids are riding atop monster truck sized horses that I'm pretty sure leave a nice potholes when they're walking.

Think it would be great to have a skill-based hunt check that would pop up everytime you hit a room, if you failed and couldn't pick up their tracks because they weren't so easy to catch (sneaking, small halfling etc) then you'd have to get that delay of dismounting, and double-checking your hunt. I'd even be all for making this a guild_ranger/Subguild_hunter/Subguild_rebel only sort of thing.

[Lizzie]

I think you're all forgetting about the use of the command in the city, and in the scrub.

In the scrub, there isn't only *one* hiding greth. There are probably a dozen. How do you know that the one whose tracks you see, is the one you're following? I mean other than the fact that the other 11 are VNPCs and the one you're following is an NPC. How do you know? Because you're making a concerted effort to check -each time- you move. Otherwise, for all you know, ICly, that set of marks that are small, when the time changes from early morning to high sun, and show that the tracks are not recent anymore..could've been any of the other 11 VNPC tracks of greths that you weren't following.

In the city, there are VNPC people walking back and forth regularly and in some areas, there are even echoes of wagons and soldiers and hunters moving back and forth a few times every hour. When your character sees a specific set of footprints, it's because he's making a very specific effort to stop what he's doing, and look for those footprints. Or shredded cloth. Or the trail of blood. Because, chances are, his target is only one of -many- people who are walking around shredding cloth, shedding blood, and leaving footprints.

I feel this is why the command needs to be kept as it is. Because when you are using the hunt skill, you're not always chasing someone who's running, or someone who is the only person or thing there for miles and miles. It's one of many things..and you are skilled enough to figure out *which* of those many things, will stand out for you. That takes time and effort, and not merely a simple walk-through.

[The Lonely Hunter]

Perhaps allow it to toggle after you are a pro (certain %)?

[X-D]

Not totally true Lizzie.

Again, once you are on a set of tracks, you stay on them (again, IRL and in any other way of looking at it really) You don't see some footprints and go...Alright, thats the ones, they are heading east, But I am going to go north till they are out of sight, THEN go east, then in a mile see if I can find them again. You follow the path taken.

And the OPs suggestion covers the possibility of losing that track for whatever reason, such as the ones you listed as well.

Sadly, the game works so that you move in these giant magickal leaps from game room to game room. But that is not how your PC is moving. They are walking in the same manner you or I do, one foot in front of the other covering a few feet per step, the same as the target being tracked.

[5 day lifespan]

Also, if you are going through an area full of greth, you should be able to tell, for instance, if one of them is wounded.  Not only from the blood trail, but also because of how it moves.  Hit it in the hindquarter, and now it's gait indicates that it is moving on three feet, with one print showing up lighter than the others.  For anyone who had tracked Ritikkis, this would be a god send.  I don't know if it is due to the high population of those buggers or if they are programmed to do so, but they ALWAYS seem to haul ass RIGHT for an area that has three of them in it, causing you to lose them.  It would make the hunt FAR better if you got back:
Less than an hour ago a swift strided insect headed north.
Less than an hour ago a swift strided insect headed south, with a limp

[Synthesis]

Also, if you are going through an area full of greth, you should be able to tell, for instance, if one of them is wounded.  Not only from the blood trail, but also because of how it moves.  Hit it in the hindquarter, and now it's gait indicates that it is moving on three feet, with one print showing up lighter than the others.  For anyone who had tracked Ritikkis, this would be a god send.  I don't know if it is due to the high population of those buggers or if they are programmed to do so, but they ALWAYS seem to haul ass RIGHT for an area that has three of them in it, causing you to lose them.  It would make the hunt FAR better if you got back:
Less than an hour ago a swift strided insect headed north.
Less than an hour ago a swift strided insect headed south, with a limp

Rivulets of blood line the tracks.

[Riev]

Basically the way I would IDEALLY like to see it, is you have to hunt, actively, in a room first. Catch the trail of something. Then you can type Hunt On to toggle hunt on walking into rooms. So, now that you have a set of footprints heading east, you can Hunt On and when you go east, you have a % chance of an "automatic" hunt check.

Nes pa?

[LoD]

What I would see as a better solution is having two skills: hunt and track.

Hunt would be the more general skill that attempts to convey what tracks or events happened in the surrounding area to your character.  This would include blood trails, prints, camp fires, battle signs, etc...

Track could be used on the target of a successful hunt, and would then report to you the direction of the tracks as you moved from room to room until your skill failed and you didn't get all of the information you wanted, when you would then use "hunt" again to re-establish the trail you wish to track.

Code Select Expand


Sandy Wastes [NEWS]

>hunt
You crouch down and begin searching for tracks.

A humanoid walked in from the west about an hour ago.
A humanoid walked east about an hour ago.
A four-clawed, wide-bodied creature walked in from the west about an hour ago.
A four-clawed, wide-blodied creature walked east about an hour ago.

>track humanoid
You begin tracking a humanoid trail.

>east

Sandy Wastes [NEWS]
A humanoid walked in from the west about an hour ago.
A humanoid walked north about an hour ago.

>north

Sandy Wastes [NEWS]
A humanoid walked in from the south about an hour ago.

>hunt
You crouch down and begin searching for tracks.

A humanoid walked in from the south about an hour ago.
Someone recently made a camp here.

That way the "hunt" skill remains a general command that conveys information about the state of a given room to your character, while the track skill actually attempts to follow a specific set of prints from room to room.  The track skill wouldn't immediately show any additional information if you were quickly moving room-to-room, leaving that task up to the general "hunt" skill.

-LoD