Only You Can Prevent...

[Lizzie]

derail

LOD says

It's the same theory as if you're trying to lose weight, stop smoking, stop drinking, or achieve something specific; you avoid situations and encounters where you are likely to be tempted into doing the things you know deep down inside that you probably shouldn't.

Except, it's exactly the opposite. Because it is usually -recommended and encouraged- that if you're trying to stop smoking or drinking, that you hook up with fellow addicts to form a support group. If you're addicted to OOC gossip, that's probably the -last- thing you want to do. The only cure for OOC gossip, is OOC isolation. I don't isolate myself - but I did remove myself from the uglier aspects of it and my OOC interactions with other players is extremely limited. Two ex-players, 2 players I hardly ever talk to about anything, 1 who rarely plays anymore, and 1 clan-mate. That's the entirety of my buddy list, aside from my actual family.

/derail

[LoD]

derail

LOD says

It's the same theory as if you're trying to lose weight, stop smoking, stop drinking, or achieve something specific; you avoid situations and encounters where you are likely to be tempted into doing the things you know deep down inside that you probably shouldn't.

Except, it's exactly the opposite. Because it is usually -recommended and encouraged- that if you're trying to stop smoking or drinking, that you hook up with fellow addicts to form a support group. If you're addicted to OOC gossip, that's probably the -last- thing you want to do. The only cure for OOC gossip, is OOC isolation.

I think you misread my statement.

What I said was that you should "avoid situations and encounters where you are likely to be tempted into doing the things you know...you probably shouldn't."  Doesn't that sound like isolation, as far as OOC gossip is concerned?  I'm not drawing a similarity between addictions and support groups, but on the similarity that a solution to both problems is to isolate yourself from those situations and scenarios where you would be tempted to participate in whatever "bad behavior" you want to avoid.

I hope that's more clear.

-LoD

[Zerack]

I find that OOC communication, either IG or on other mediums while playing can really kill the atmosphere of an heavy RP environment quick. When your having some serious RP going on even a single seemingly harmless IG OOC comment can destroy the mood. I don't have anyone on any type of messengers...I use IG OOC for two things - to tell friends when I'll be on next and to inform people if I need to go AFK.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hmm.. but could someone explain to me the rule about not chatting with a player outside the game, while you're still in the game? It seems fine to me, since I definitely don't talk about game stuff to people when my character could do it.

Do you know how easy it is to type in the wrong window when you have two up?

[Riev]

I have yet to have my "immersion broken" or been in a situation that was "jarring" for me to "stay in character".

I'm absolutely sure OOC communication can ruin things. Such as Halaster's thread in the link in this thread. There is some OOC communication that I have no problem with. I have also known people that hate certain players so much, they want to kill them whenever they find out who they are.

I've only been playing maybe three years, but havn't come across anything that was -so- terrible OOCly that my in game play was absolutely ruined. I guess, perhaps, I'm not as "good" as you serious people? Maybe I'm not "in character" enough.

[SMuz]

I don't mistype in the wrong window. I've had years of practicing not doing that

Hmm.. I could see what LoD means, though. During that short period that the 2.Arm chat was up, I think some people did get some IC info about my character inadvertently. Though I don't see how it's much worse than you people who enter the GDB using your character's name as your GDB handle.

[FantasyWriter]

Sorta like typing in the wrong window...

I once ruined one of my own plots by "talk"ing something at a crowded bar instead of "psi"ing it.
I nearly cried because everyone involved in the plot was in the room at the time.

[Niamh]

To get this thread back on track, I would like to say that Nyr has made some very good points.  Yes, we do understand that there are a lot of really fun things that go on in the game.  But turning around and telling your Arm friends about it (especially when it concerns something that isn't well known among the world ICly, like a PC's seekrit assassination, or that Amos is the ghost that's been haunting Allanak) can really spoil the fun, intrigue, and mystery of things.  It's especially damaging when the information gets passed on to others and spread out.  Yes, unfortunately there are some people who have taken that sort of information that they've gotten OOCly and used it for IC gains.  Refraining from the OOC communication helps out a lot in preventing unscrupulous things like that from happening.

[Kronibas]

Refraining from the OOC communication helps out a lot in preventing unscrupulous things like that from happening.

I don't think OOC communication between Arm players is necessarily a bad thing, Niamh.  Not everyone who talks to folks they know from Arm talk about IC stuff.

It's sort've like that argument about gun control:  Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Well, let's replace that cliche with this new and improved version:  OOC communication with people you share a hobby with doesn't ruin the game, sharing IC information with people ruins the game.

I've introduced some of my best friends to Armageddon and they've stuck.  Where you at, Sephiroto and Fantasty Writer?  I still talk to these people.  I don't think I should be discouraged from talking to these folks, nor should I be discouraged from talking with people who I've been
friends with for half a decade (even though I don't talk to folks so much anymore these days, save for the Blast chat).

I do believe that people should be discouraged from distributing IC information.  And LoD had a good point about inadvertantly talking about
something in game, so I admit.. you need to be careful.  But you can have friends (and boyfriends and girlfriends and husbands and wives, oh my!) that play Arm with you.  I think that's okay.

[Delstro]

Though I don't see how it's much worse than you people who enter the GDB using your character's name as your GDB handle.

Specifically about this above quote.
People will make GDB Handles for specific characters who join a clan and keep their main GDB handle unassociated with their characters.
I, myself, have one GDB handle I use for clan forums, and two GDB handles I switch between every 6 months.

I am also in agreement with Krono, even though I don't maintain contact with anybody I know who plays this game, I don't want to not talk to friends that I have introduced to Arm. That is bad juju.

[el_cid]

Yeah I hate OOC communication.

[jcljules]

I recently blocked everyone from Armageddon on AIM. Too much mixing of OOC and IC in my game experience recently, and its really hard to keep communication innocent. I don't use IRC or AIM Blast either. I do hope that others choose to do this--it seems like this kind of communication is almost ubiquitous and I've seen it a lot in my year of play. I've had a few mysteries of the game ruined for me because of it, and I feel like stopping any chance of it happening again is worth the losing the 'community' aspect and the occasional 'advantages' it unfairly confers.

Stop the madness!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5zJvX3pIY4

[brytta.leofa]

Digressing from the original point (of not sharing IC information): There are several Armers with whom I chat regularly.  But I've discovered that I enjoy the game more when I'm doing nothing but the game: not chat, not the GDB, not random web surfing.  When I start distracting myself, my creativity plummets.

[a strange shadow]

I've met a few awesome people through Armageddon. I've also met a bunch of twerps.

I'm not going to stop talking to the awesome people. I will exercise restraint in what we talk about. Frankly, if we only chatted about the game, those people would not be categorized as awesome, so it isn't a problem in the first place.

Also, what brytta.leofa said.

[RogueGunslinger]

Refraining from the OOC communication helps out a lot in preventing unscrupulous things like that from happening.

I don't think OOC communication between Arm players is necessarily a bad thing, Niamh.  Not everyone who talks to folks they know from Arm talk about IC stuff.

It's sort've like that argument about gun control:  Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Well, let's replace that cliche with this new and improved version:  OOC communication with people you share a hobby with doesn't ruin the game, sharing IC information with people ruins the game.

I've introduced some of my best friends to Armageddon and they've stuck.  Where you at, Sephiroto and Fantasty Writer?  I still talk to these people.  I don't think I should be discouraged from talking to these folks, nor should I be discouraged from talking with people who I've been
friends with for half a decade (even though I don't talk to folks so much anymore these days, save for the Blast chat).

I do believe that people should be discouraged from distributing IC information.  And LoD had a good point about inadvertantly talking about
something in game, so I admit.. you need to be careful.  But you can have friends (and boyfriends and girlfriends and husbands and wives, oh my!) that play Arm with you.  I think that's okay.

I figure this was all pretty much a given, considering we're all OOCly communicating, right now.

[LoD]

It seems that some people are interpreting the message "Don't get involved in OOC communication that is detrimental to the game." as "Don't participate in OOC communication."

And those are two very different messages.  I don't think that anyone is suggesting that we don't ever talk to each other, develop friendships, or ever discuss the game itself in an appropriate way.  The main issue is that it's an extremely fine line between discussing the game through OOC communication and hurting the game through OOC communication.  It seems most people feel that hurting the game is the direct result of a malicious or willful act, but I doubt the majority of the guilty parties were ever purposefully trying to hurt anyone.

As others have mentioned, it really comes down to disciplining yourself.  It's similar to choosing when to go along with your friends, and when not to.  If you know that your friends have a tendency to be morons from time to time, then you might need to pick and choose the specific time and place where you hang out -- to avoid being placed into those situations.  I used to have some friends that were perfectly fine at school, hanging out at my house, or playing basketball, but they would occasionally drive around playing mailbox baseball -- and I wasn't all about damaging other people's personal property.

I have another friend who can't help but be loud at movies.  He's just one of those people that blurts out what they're thinking, and shouts things out at the screen at really inappropriate times.  He's still my friend, but I choose not to go to movies with him.

Thus, I think it's best to treat our OOC communication with other players in a similar fashion.  If we can't 100% trust them, or 100% trust ourselves, then we need to limit our exposure to it -- especially at the most critical times (while we are playing).  I always enjoyed the game much more when I didn't know who anyone else played, didn't have a lot of OOC communication, and was able to focus all my attention strictly on the game.

-LoD

[Thistle]

Another danger of ooc communication I want to bring up:

This sort of thing can sow discontent.  I've watched this happen in various arm related discussions where players talk about things and usually it is based off of an assumption or misinformation and they get more and more worked up over it and it generally ends with some statement about how terrible staff are.  A lot of mountains get made out of molehills and all of those started with OOC communication.

[Riev]

Another danger of ooc communication I want to bring up:

This sort of thing can sow discontent.  I've watched this happen in various arm related discussions where players talk about things and usually it is based off of an assumption or misinformation and they get more and more worked up over it and it generally ends with some statement about how terrible staff are.  A lot of mountains get made out of molehills and all of those started with OOC communication.

Well, maybe if staff weren't so terrible, Thistle-uuuu. (kidding)


I guess I have nothing to worry about, myself. I don't believe I've ever really engaged in IC-sharing information that has either ruined the game for me, or for someone else. I'm less worried about me, but I'd hope other people would be upfront with "Do not tell me things happening in game". Part of my fun, with this game, is the storytelling. As my playstyle does -not- lend well to some of the better stories, I do enjoy the occasional "Yes, well when I did xx action one time, yy templar did this amazingly zz torture scene." I can then tell these stories to friends that do NOT play Arm in the attempt to gain their interest.

The stories about my characters would be "So, I had this guy in Salarr, but he went outside looking for salt and died to a giant flying mekillot what was leading an argosy full of gith."

[Niamh]

It seems that some people are interpreting the massage "Don't get involved in OOC communication that is detrimental to the game." as "Don't participate in OOC communication."

[jmordetsky]

It seems that some people are interpreting the massage "Don't get involved in OOC communication that is detrimental to the game." as "Don't participate in OOC communication."

A wise man once said that the OP should probably include a link to guideline as to what "OOC communication that is detrimental to the game" is.

That wise man is me. Cuz, I does likes me some chat time while I play.

And - at the end of the day - the current rash of OOC nonsense was caused by someone who apparently (unless I misread san's post) had staff access (for better or for worse, for right or for wrong). I tend to be of the school that believes that OOC nonsense is it's most nonsensical-esque, it's usually because someone with staff resources is involved.  Nonsensical-esque is a word. I say so.

I wrote a big post about this. I will edit it and post again. Consider this a prelude bitches.

[Shalooonsh]

The stories about my characters would be "So, I had this guy in Salarr, but he went outside looking for salt and died to a giant flying mekillot what was leading an argosy full of gith."

Way to blow my plotline, jerk.

[SMuz]

Hmm.. ok, another question: What about IC information to people who don't play Arm? I do like telling my friends about this game, and there are a lot, lot of fun things that happens to my char(s). But to really get the point across, I have to tell some IC info.

There's a tiny chance that someone could tell who I am, because my nick on other forums is only slightly different and an even tinier chance that a hardcore Arm player (out of the 300 or so here) would be hanging out on the same forum. But it's like.. really tiny to have them both together

[jcljules]

Hmm.. ok, another question: What about IC information to people who don't play Arm? I do like telling my friends about this game, and there are a lot, lot of fun things that happens to my char(s). But to really get the point across, I have to tell some IC info.

There's a tiny chance that someone could tell who I am, because my nick on other forums is only slightly different and an even tinier chance that a hardcore Arm player (out of the 300 or so here) would be hanging out on the same forum. But it's like.. really tiny to have them both together

There are plenty of people who I know will never, ever play Armageddon--and so I feel no restraint in telling them what happens ICly.