I'm done.

[deviant storm]

OP, I understand how you feel. It sucks to have a character you were really, really into suddenly dead, especially if it was at the hands of some stranger you never once icly met before. So you're sitting there wondering why and it feels like you're just another part of the body count while someone displays their uberness.

A break might be a good idea. Sometimes these breaks give a better perspective. Like some of the other players have said, there may be deep and meaningful reasons that your character had to die. There may have just been that whole wrong place, wrong time thing going on, too. But then with the NPC critters that happens, so why is it different when the killer is a player?

No one's doing it to be mean to you, the player. I have to remind myself of that. Yeah, some of these guys come across as real assholes on the GDB sometimes but I have my doubts anyone's doing it just to upset another player.

I do understand the need to say something, somewhere. I wish there was a mechanism in game or somewhere where you could vent after something like this happens. One that isn't going to cause more work for the imms and in which other players aren't allowed to be snarky or flame. I really don't see any constructiveness in that whole 'ragequit' bull. Someone needs to stop reading posts if that's the best they can contribute to their community.

Meanwhile, good luck. Hope you come up with a good concept, after your break, OP!

Edited for spelling error.

[Zoltan]

I find that playing a character with flaws that I'm aware of and fabricate helps, that way when people exploit those flaws I can grin and keep up the scene.  It's when I try to play "perfect" characters that I get all whiny when they die, because then it's my mistakes that are getting them in trouble.

Fuck. Yes. Part-way through my first character, this is how I started looking at things, and it made this game even better for me.

As to the whole story/winning thing you bring up frequently... Well, I just don't know. By and large, I play to lose. As in, you can NEVER win Arm, so just enjoy the ride. Know that in almost every case your character will end in an unsatisfying way, and it's all cool. But then again... I can't say I'm 100% into facilitating every other player's story arch that comes along, either.

[FantasyWriter]

You can't win a permadeath game. Enjoy it.

[Gunnerblaster]

What truly pisses me off is when some noob, and I mean - First time playing Armageddon- comes in thinking this is some normal game.

There was a recent event that was a perfect example of that, in which one of those "noobs" takes a players life thinking it is all fun and games, unwittedly (And uncaringly) slaying and ending the potential of what could have been a really good character with an awesome character concept.

Oh, yeah - You can send in player complaints but the likeliness of that "noob" making another character is slim to none. The only one affected is that one PC who was randomly killed while the "noob" simply leaves to go play World of Warcraft again or something.

[Qzzrbl]

with the extent of his roleplaying being one weak ass emote

Eh, be glad you got that much at least.

Enjoy your break though, they're definitely needed sometimes.

[brytta.leofa]

Smuz, this game is about furthering the storyline, not winning.

Let's put it this way: my character's storyline is about winning.

[Halcyon]

Smuz, this game is about furthering the storyline, not winning.

I think that illustrates the argument for me... who's storyline is it about, ganker or gankee?

[Semper]

How do you win Armageddon anyway?

You can't reach level 60 and beat all the quests in Armageddon.

You can get awesome skills, and be the most powerful warrior/assassin/elementalist/whatever, but you're still far from having beat the game. The game ends (for the temporary) only when your character dies. That's why PKs stink so much at times. You just lost the game for someone else.

[ibusoe]

Armageddon is cruel. I, as a player, have no responsibility to be nice to you and, given my personality, probably won't.

If you don't like this, you have two options.

1) Go play another MUD.

2) Grow some balls.

Good luck.

This surprises and disappoints me, Manonfire.  You're normally one of my favorite board-posters.

I think that there is a significant segment of the playerbase that sincerely believes that being a poor sport (or being a dick, really) helps to stiffen competition inside of the game.  I personally disagree that it does. 

Actually, I think it sissyfies the game in that it deters a number of people from playing.  For brevity I'll omit the mathematical proof that having less players means having less competition, making things easier (c.f. Nash).

To illustrate, ask yourself why it is that I engage in a lot of trash talk when I play basketball?  It's because I suck at basketball, and I know that I can beat a truly superior player if I can fluster them to the point where it affects their play. 

To wit, it's always bad form to trash talk people over the internet.  It's along the same lines as having bad phone manners.

Sure, we're better off without some griefers but I don't think that you're the judge or jury of who should be welcomed into the game community and who shouldn't.  Something was clearly bothering this fellow and you're only acerbating the problem. 

I'm dissapointed and expect better of you in particular. 

Creative people are usually sensitive people.  Given time and training, the original poster could perhaps one day evolve into the most ruthless and vicious templar that you've ever seen.


//edited for grammar

[ibusoe]

OP, taking a break is a good idea.  Might I suggest playing a ranger/raider?  If you PK people for a while it will probably make you feel better about the game.

And the game could certainly use more raiders.

[SMuz]

Hmm.. I found an old thread that covers the argument that's been going on around here:
http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,31658.0.html

A very enlightening read, for everyone.

[Moofassa]

As a Helper, and a longtime citizen of Zalanthas, I would like to say one thing.

Murder, corruption and betrayal.

Welcome to Zalanthas, lifes a bitch, while you live.

[Mood]

As a Helper, and a longtime citizen of Zalanthas, I would like to say one thing.

Murder, corruption and betrayal.

Welcome to Zalanthas, lifes a bitch, while you live.

Translation: quityerbitchin'.

[manonfire]

This surprises and disappoints me, Manonfire.  You're normally one of my favorite board-posters.

I think that speaks volumes to your taste, compadre.

I think that there is a significant segment of the playerbase that sincerely believes that being a poor sport (or being a dick, really) helps to stiffen competition inside of the game.  I personally disagree that it does. 

We agree to disagree there.  Zalanthas is a rough fucking place to live. My characters are often mean for absolutely no reason other than that they exist in this world.

Actually, I think it sissyfies the game in that it deters a number of people from playing.  For brevity I'll omit the mathematical proof that having less players means having less competition, making things easier (c.f. Nash).

I think you and I disagree on the definition of sissify. I'd gladly play with half our base if every last one of them were scheming, manipulative assholes.

To illustrate, ask yourself why it is that I engage in a lot of trash talk when I play basketball?  It's because I suck at basketball, and I know that I can beat a truly superior player if I can fluster them to the point where it affects their play. 

I engage in it because it's fun for me. I expect the same in return.

To wit, it's always bad form to trash talk people over the internet.  It's along the same lines as having bad phone manners.

Trash-talking is part of any competitive culture, like it or not.

Sure, we're better off without some griefers but I don't think that you're the judge or jury of who should be welcomed into the game community and who shouldn't.  Something was clearly bothering this fellow and you're only acerbating the problem. 

My post spoke nothing to who should be welcomed here or not. Everyone is welcome. Few will flourish. I'm sorry if this truth strikes you as problematic.

I'm dissapointed and expect better of you in particular. 

I don't care, honestly. What's on my mind is what's on my mind. If I don't subscribe to some expectation you've applied to me, so be it.

Creative people are usually sensitive people. 

I don't have the time nor the inkling to encourage some shy, yet staggeringly brilliant creative genius to come out of his shell and start participating in the world like normal people. The world is a cruel-ass place. They either deal with it, or they don't.

Given time and training, the original poster could perhaps one day evolve into the most ruthless and vicious templar that you've ever seen.

Good. I hope he does.

[Jingo]

Reading this thread, I have to wonder if we're talking about the same thing.

Even though they overlap, there is a distinction between the hard/cruel aspects of Zalanthas and some of the player killing that goes on.

I love the harsh atmosphere of the game, with bodies on streets or getting my ass kicked by other pc's. It's great, I love playing the kicked dog. I also love knowing that one false move could be the end of me. And I've even had a few enjoyable deaths at the hands of PC's. This is not my complaint before anyone starts nattering about the harshness of the gameworld.

The problem as I see it is that killing is often preferred to most other forms of conflict resolution. In cases, that I think could have had a minimalized effect. I see this happen so much that I've written off entire portions of the gameworld as bizarre deathmatch zones.

Whereas, manonfire suggests that we have no responsibility to the other player, I'm going to agree with what Dak said. We do have a responsibility. Not IC, but essentially an OOC responsibility to make things enjoyable for the player on the other side. Even if it's their last expierience with that To give the player the benefit of a doubt. To at the very least, attempt to interact with the character before the situation is resolved by combat spam. (This is more of a recommendation for raiding and gang warfare, for example I don't expect anyone to give there position away as they line up an assasination.) But most of all, not to kill someone just because it is easy to pull off.

And no, I don't believe that the one emote before typing kill so much as counts as interaction. It's more like a custom combat echo. In most insta-gib situations, it comes off as pretty trite.

Edit for clarity, emphasis, etc.

[Malken]

This surprises and disappoints me, Manonfire.  You're normally one of my favorite board-posters.

Huh.

[Lizzie]

I don't feel I have any responsibility to any other player, other than to respect and abide by the rules.

I've never played a raider PC, I've never had a character killed by a raider PC, and in fact I've only had one character killed by a critter. The rest were either stored, or assassinated. Not PK'ed...assassinated. Some of those assassinations seemed pretty lamely done. But the reasoning behind each one was perfectly sound and other than the entertainment value of the scene (or lack thereof), I had no complaints.

I've PKed 2 characters who were brand new while I was standing in the character gen room when they logged in, and started wailing on me, and obviously they ended up dead before they took their second shot. I -intentionally- killed 1 character, after weeks of planning and discovering that the PC needed to die. I don't remember if I roleplayed out the scene of their death or not. But there were WEEKS of roleplay that led up to it, so tough noogies if I was too nervous to emote. There was another I intentionally killed, with lots of emoting, that turned out to be a headache and a half because the NPC clan member kept interfering and trying to kill me instead of the bad guy.

Now having given my limited background on the subject:

If I found the need ICly to kill someone, I'd kill them. I wouldn't think "oh gee whiz, am I ruining the player's enjoyment of the game by not letting him escape, so he can grow up to be more powerful than I am and gank me in 2 weeks?" I wouldn't wonder if there are twenty different plotlines that I'm not involved in, that killing this guy would ruin. If my character feels that this character needs to be dead, then she will do whatever is necessary to see that this character is dead. That's called roleplaying. It's nothing personal. It has nothing to do with my desire to see the player of that character suffer. There are players of this game who I'd rather not have to interact with. And yet, I have -zero- problem interacting with their character. There are characters in the game I love interacting with, who are played by players I'd rather not deal with. One has nothing to do with the other. Business is business, as every good Kuraci knows

If I get insta-ganked by some twink raider dwarf who just spent the last 2 RL weeks spam-sparring the dummy in the Byn compound, with zero emotes, and zero lead-up, and no reason that I can think of, then I'll send a note to the staff to question it. But there's no reason to come here complaining, because we usually don't know if there's a reason behind what's going on. If someone tosses out a single emote, I'll know that they were at least _trying_ to roleplay the scene. I might think "man what a sucky scene, what a dumb way to end this character" but hey at least the guy tried. That's more than I got when the dujat killed my elf.

[Malken]

How do you win Armageddon anyway?

I won Armageddon with one of my last character. Seriously, I totally did.

If it had been a book, or a movie, it would have been the perfect ending and every readers would have been happy.

Actually, some are even demanding a sequel!

You CAN win Armageddon. Armageddon is exactly like Sid Meier's Pirates! and I ranked Governor, yo.

[Gimfalisette]

I think this thread http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,26665.0.html had some good discussion on the topic of PKing, including this portion which still rings deeply for me:

I play to create stories and add my voice to the song of Armageddon with the hope that a few notes will be remembered.  Sometimes creating the story trumps the individual decisions of my character in how I approach a given situation.  Sometimes letting someone live is bad for your character, but good for the game.  That isn't to say that someone should feel obligated to be nice, fair, or merciful.  It's simply a statement that there will be times when your actions, both ICly and OOCly, can have a profound effect upon the tapestry we weave, and sometimes letting a stray thread survive will result in an even more wondrous product than if you had simply tied a knot.

I come down on the side of "Yes, we all have an OOC responsibility to one another to make this the best story possible." And learning to balance being a jerk ICly with being fair and reasonable OOCly is part of that.

[Hot_Dancer]

Send in a complaint via the request tool.

I have negative notes on my account for killing players who decided the scene was lacking
and the staff agreed with them.

It works.

Cheers,
HD.

[manonfire]

Whereas, manonfire suggests that we have no responsibility to the other player,

Yeah, no. Never said that. Never suggested that.

Try comprehending what's been written, thanks.

[Jingo]

Armageddon is cruel. I, as a player, have no responsibility to be nice to you and, given my personality, probably won't.

i beg to differ, old buddy. As players we have a responsibility to be nice to each other. As characters, however, we actually have an obligation to be dicks.

My context was IG, you fuckin' sweetheart. 

Looking back again, I didn't catch this. My bad. But the first statement is not clear on context at all.

[Armaddict]

OP.  I just returned from a very long break myself that was instigated by a bad character string coupled with meaningless deaths at the hands of others.  Sometimes, frustration just piles up, and a break is the only way to get rid of it.  Sometimes it's only a week or so, sometimes it's months.  You'll know when you suddenly start brewing up character concepts in your head even while you're not playing.  That's when it's time to come back.

We all need breaks.  It's a game where permadeath makes -everything- more impactful.  You get attached to these little wastes of time known as your characters.  Nothing...absolutely nothing justifies the loss of them.  No matter how it's done, what you get out of it, it always feels as though you get jipped in some way when you can't play that character anymore.  It's the nature of the beast, and the glory of it.  It's the difference of this game.

I have absolutely nil knowledge of what was going on for your scene.  Sometimes the roleplay is completely hidden away, and unfortunately, is not revealed to you since you were not part of the events that led up to it, but rather on the receiving end of mishap, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or targeted because something you did was easily forgotten by you, but not by someone else.

Take the break.  Like I said, we all need 'em.  Hopefully you're back soon enough.

[Malifaxis]

Getting whacked without a serious scene sucks.  Yep.  It does.  Damn, that's a bummer.

Kinda stings, don't it?  Leaves a bit of a bruise?  Maybe a few scrapes and scratches.

Zalanthas is our playground.  Just how it is.  It's where we go for recess when we want to get away from our shitty lives.

So really it comes down to if you want to be the kid who sits there and wails at the bottom of the slide because they bumped their damn knee, or if you want to be the kid who takes another ride.

So what's it going to be?  Is it about the ride itself?  Or the attention you can garner from it?

[X-D]

First, My PK report.

* Four, complaints of unfairness on the part of other players will not be given an audience. If you think another character was mean to you, you're most likely right.

Next, I feel no responsibility to any of the other players or staff for their enjoyment of the game EXCEPT that if I ignore it then that infringes on my own enjoyment of the game.

Next, and I have no clue at all if this has anything to do with the OP. But. I REALLY REALLY want a better mercy command. I do not think it would harm the game in any way if mercy took a PC (not npc) to no lower then -5 HP 100% of the time. No matter your weapons skill, no matter if it was a spell of uber doom that can do 5,000 damage. Mercy on, no lower then -5. AND, which would include multiple combantants as long as they all had mercy on. Yes, I know it would completely negate the totally IC accidental sparring deaths and such. But at least I can give the player some kind of ending other then, blam, mantis head.

I feel that All players are robbed by the sub par mercy code we currently have.