The review flag - what can we do to make it better

[Adhira]

In the player staff meeting a suggestion was made about modifications to the review flag. We'd like to look at ways to make the review flag more meaningful for both players and staff. At the moment many people have review on, and are waiting on feedback. For staff when we look at who has review on we'll see many people, including some that have already been 'reviewed' or have had the flag on for years.

Please post your thoughts and suggestions on making this process work for everyone.

The specific suggestion in the chat room was:

<Kevin> I believe one of the things that makes old players drift, and
also helps new players stay is the attention they and others recieve from
immortals and staff. Many have complained that karma is given out unfairly, or
some players are doted on, but it's impossible to spread attention to
everywhere it's needed.
<Kevin> Perhaps a good way to change this is to change the review
command to set up a que for each person that types it IG. That way, in order,
each player's char would get reviewed in the order they sent in their roleplay
review request. Maybe one immortal, on during similiar times could agree to
follow, or periodically watch that player.
<Kevin> In this way, each person, in a fair and disciplined manner could be
reviewed upon their roleplay in a timely manner. One request, set up first come
first serve. Hopefully, this will help organize and distribute staff attention.

[RogueGunslinger]

I think Kevin's idea is great. And addresses the issue pretty well.

[Winterless]

I agree with Kevin and RGS, also, I think that after an account has been reviewed that the Staffer should automagickally change it to be off. And when that player gets their review notes, add in a note reminding the player that their flag is now off.

[staggerlee]

I'd think that clan staff would be the most appropriate for filling out reviews of that sort, and most likely to be observing the player.

The problem with a queue system would be the sheer quantity of reviews staff would have to go through. I suspect that it would get backed up fairly quickly.

I do agree that more feedback and communication between players and staff would be wonderful, I'm just not entirely sure a queue would be the best answer. Perhaps something could be done to reduce the workload, such as restricting reviews to one per account.

[Fathi]

Perhaps the review flag could be tied into account notes requests.

You're allowed to do it once every six months and when you request your account notes, the immortal handling that request also handles your review request if you select the option that says you want to be reviewed.

I know there are a lot of folks who don't regularly request account notes, but if you wanted just the review, you could file a request for your notes and just not read them.

[Dalmeth]

Do you really like the idea of streamlining an overwatch situation as the review command currently works in a queue? Do you want a staff member ticking through two or three of these a night, never to return to those characters again, and then come to you as you're spam crafting today's hunt just before you log out for two days of grueling work?

I don't think watching someone's play should be streamlined in this fashion.  It's supposed to be time consuming, and with a volunteer staff with many responsibilities, it is naturally inefficient.

[Lizzie]

What I'd like, is to get rid of the review flag entirely. Not everyone who's new even notices that it's useful. Some don't realize it exists, and there's rarely any mention of it on the GDB. It's like the forgotten step-child of Arm.

Instead, make it a policy for every player to be watched by someone, for at least a few minutes, within the first real-time week of game play. It wouldn't matter if the player was on character #1 or character #5. They should have someone watch them, at some point, during their first week. And make some kind of comment on their account notes. Maybe you could make it so that any player who has had one character past the 2-hour reroll limit would be eligible for this "watching."  That would rule out the random H&Ser who shows up just to take a peek at the game and kill the nearest NPC before moving on to the next game on his list (something I used to do before I discovered RPIs)

If the only thing the IMM can say about the player is "He was linkdead for the whole 5 minutes I checked on him - note to use quit-safe rooms and check the help files for "quit" next time" then so be it. It could be that the player, being new, didn't know how to quit out. And now he knows that his character was still in the game, which is something he wouldn't have known, if the imm never sent -some- kind of comment.

Every player should have their first IMM comment e-mailed to them within the first 2 weeks of their account being opened, assuming that they stick around long enough to have at least one character live past their first 2 hours. This ensures that everyone gets some kind of personal feedback in the first two weeks of playing. I think this is one (of many) possible ways to keep the attention of new players who might simply be needing some assurance that someone cares.

[number13]

I don't see the point of the review flag.

Staff is hovering around watching often enough, probably more so after the announced changes.  Player complaints and kudos can be used for players to call out other players who deserve watching.  And so, the 'hey look at me' flag seems redundant.

I know it supposedly comes with the bonus of a written critique of one's RP, but I think that would better sorted via requesting account notes, assuming more frequent notes (good and bad) were appended. [on the other hand, I've never requested account notes, so there could be entire novel in there I haven't read.]

Now, if there was a 'hey, don't look at me' flag I might toggle it from time to time.

[Synthesis]

I don't see the point of the review flag.

Staff is hovering around watching often enough, probably more so after the announced changes.  Player complaints and kudos can be used for players to call out other players who deserve watching.  And so, the 'hey look at me' flag seems redundant.

I know it supposedly comes with the bonus of a written critique of one's RP, but I think that would better sorted via requesting account notes, assuming more frequent notes (good and bad) were appended.

Now, if there was a 'hey, don't look at me' flag I might toggle it from time to time.

Much like sneaking poorly, I'm sure that would make people want to look at you even more.  I've never used the review flag, AFAIK.

[Fathi]

Do you really like the idea of streamlining an overwatch situation as the review command currently works in a queue?

It has to be streamlined in some way if we want it to be viable at all. As it is currently, it may be designed to be time-consuming, but that might just be one of the reasons why it's consistently ignored, backed up all to hell, and all but useless.

[number13]

Much like sneaking poorly, I'm sure that would make people want to look at you even more.  I've never used the review flag, AFAIK.

There are times when my characters will do insanely boring things that I simply won't emote out unless there's another PC watching.  I don't think it's fair to staff to have them floating around watching me do nothing when there's likely to be another player doing something far more interesting.

Granted, I wouldn't ever actually use the flag. But I could see the utility for responsible players.

[Adhira]

While the idea of watching everyone is admirable, it's just not something I see as possible. Bear in mind that every staff member has responsiblities and they need to see those done. It's far easier for us to factor in taking someone out of the review queue and watching them, than to think... everyone watch newbies. That's just too big a task, and too nebulous to assign.

As far as the watching them for one night - one of the reasons reviews get bogged down is because we don't just watch for one night. If we're reviewing someone we try and watch them for a period of time, to get a feel for them and give them something they can work with. Watching someone for one night is definitely too short a timeframe.

As Fathi commented this is one of the reasons it is backed up... when something takes a good amount of effort on our part and we see a good amount of people with it on (Come on dude, you've got 7 karma and been playing for 6 years - you know who you are, I see you in my review queue)  .... anyway... it feels like a mammoth task.

So.. how can we make this task less mammoth, while still rewarding. Should it be restricted to newbies? Should we go with the timer idea of 6 months between flag turn on?

[Sephiroto]

I didn't know that the review flag was in game until about 2 months ago.  How long has it been part of the 1.Arm codebase?

[Adhira]

Hmm, well, it's been in since I joined staff in 2004, not sure when it got implemented but I was of the belief it had been in for some time.

[th3kaiser]

Yeaaah, I'd completely forgotten about this flag. I wanna be like  the guy with 7 karma in six years! I've only garnered two in my 9 years.

[Medena]

I didn't know that the review flag was in game until about 2 months ago.  How long has it been part of the 1.Arm codebase?

I remember turning it on a couple of weeks after I started which was in 2003.

[Semper]

I've never used this function yet, but I'd think it would be classified in the same category as account notes. Albeit, it's a compilation of account notes over a span of time, with imm commentary and feedback.

Here's what I think would improve the concept of the review flag:

I believe this is already in place, but account notes are compiled separately from other sensitive information on an account, making it easier to send to players requesting account notes through the request application on the website. If not, I think it should be.

FOR those players requesting account notes, I would believe the major reasoning behind placing a request for account notes is to gain feedback on their role play. Account notes themselves can give a reasonable idea of how the staff view individual players' role play, but it is not as in depth as a full review with imm commentary and feedback, which I'm assuming is what a 'review' by an imm is.

WHAT I then propose is that you replace the 'account notes' request with the role play 'review' request. Instead of just providing the player with the compiled account notes, included would be imm commentary with suggestions/feedback/compliments, etc.

TO make this process easier, account notes for players could be done with this function in mind. While one imm's comment on watching a night of the player's role play may not be sufficient, when a number of observations are made by different imms, each at different spans of time, there would be a general idea of the player's role play that could be commented on and feedback provided for once the request for a review is put in.

ALSO, when players send in their review requests, they can choose which clans/groups that they have been apart of recently, and thus send the request to the staff groups that the player would have been in contact with the most and likely more familiar with, both between the staff and the player, and the player with the staff.

By doing this:
It may require a little more effort by staff when writing account notes (through more frequent use or details given).
'Account Note' requests would be replaced by 'Review Account' requests.
'Review Account' requests would be allowed once every six months as account note requests are.
Along with a compilation of account notes, staff who are familiar with the player's role play would provide commentary and feedback on that player's role play from the time they have interacted and worked with the player as a member of the staff group's clan.
Because of the changes to staff responsibilities and the way imms are grouped with different clans, they should already have some experience with the player from IG interactions to provide fairly accurate commentary (in addition to prior account notes).

That's all I could come up with so far.

[added]
I agree with Dalmeth on that, a first-come first-served basis for doing review requests would be a bit time-consuming and inefficient. As proposed, review requests would fall into the jurisdiction of those staff groups that the player would have had most experience with. As account notes can be placed on an account by any staff (I'm assuming), if there are some staff that the player wants to avoid for their own reason, and sends their review request to a different staffing group, if there are negative or questionable notes on the player's account, it can be inquired into by the staff group who were listed by the player requesting to be reviewed by.

[Sephiroto]

Wow, so it's been around a relatively long time.  If it really worked well I'm sure I would have heard of it much sooner.

[Dalmeth]

While the idea of watching everyone is admirable, it's just not something I see as possible. Bear in mind that every staff member has responsiblities and they need to see those done. It's far easier for us to factor in taking someone out of the review queue and watching them, than to think... everyone watch newbies. That's just too big a task, and too nebulous to assign.

As far as the watching them for one night - one of the reasons reviews get bogged down is because we don't just watch for one night. If we're reviewing someone we try and watch them for a period of time, to get a feel for them and give them something they can work with. Watching someone for one night is definitely too short a timeframe.

As Fathi commented this is one of the reasons it is backed up... when something takes a good amount of effort on our part and we see a good amount of people with it on (Come on dude, you've got 7 karma and been playing for 6 years - you know who you are, I see you in my review queue)  .... anyway... it feels like a mammoth task.

So.. how can we make this task less mammoth, while still rewarding. Should it be restricted to newbies? Should we go with the timer idea of 6 months between flag turn on?

The problem with a queue is that you either get the same situation right now, where a staff member waits for someone on their queue to log in, never being on at the same time, and the queue backs up anyway, or you get one poorly done review a night.  Players simply aren't that regular.  They lead real lives, too.

The best recourse is to make headway with increasing the frequency of account notes, where a staff member in their normal course of business can observe players and make notes accordingly.  At some point, those notes can be reviewed and a judgment made.

[Sephiroto]

If we have all these extra staff members who are spending so much more time animating the world then it shouldn't be too hard for them to note some of their interactions with various PC's.  Granted, some methodology should be considered because we all know how players suddenly RP everything a lot better when they know they're being watched.

[Adhira]

I think you missed my point, if we're reviewing a player we watch them for some time, regardless, never just a one night thing. This may mean it takes some time, and I'm ok with that, but what it does mean is that we can't get through say... 50 of these in a week. Syncing up time is important, which is why it's currently an in-game flag, you an see who's around when you are, and take note of that, and start looking out for them.

To my mind account notes are entirely different from reviews. If I'm reviewing someone I'm watching to give them indepth commentary on their roleplay.  If I'm making account notes it's general brief notes, mostly with the purpose of noting things for other staff. Account notes have a truncation amount of 3 lines, we read them on the fly, usually in the game. I don't think that they would fulfill the purpose which we intended for reviews.

We could do away with reviews, but would people feel happy about getting occassional off the cuff one liners such as "Spends a lot of time tucked away in apartments", "Some great emoting, seems to be really get the hang of things". Instead of an email that would perhaps go in to more depth on why getting out of the apartment is a good idea, what emotes were liked, and where they could add to their arsenal. I'd be fine with doing away with the review flag if commentary rather than review is what players are after.

If people do think that a review of sorts is more appropriate:  What about if we put the review flag request through the tool, allowing it to be selected only once every 6 months. Staff would then add the flag to the players in game. We as staff would have to actively work to make sure that we start watching those who need reviewing (likely clan staff would take their clan members to make it part of the normal work we do). For me as a staff member I'd be more likely to put the time in to doing reviews if I knew that the person really wanted it, and hadn't just set the flag a long time ago and forgotten it, and also if there were less of them in the game at any one time.

[SMuz]

Heh, I'd find it interesting if staff actually played with players to review them.

Personally, I would never use review. I shudder to think that my account notes might have written about me breaking rules, not having enough emotion, eating without emoting, that sort of thing. I do play well at times, I think, but I enjoy the feeling of being alone when I am alone, and the natural movements and thoughts that come with it. Feeling like someone's watching me would make me play a very boring, average character.

IMHO, I don't really feel like a review option is fair. It's like seeing that guy in high school who has a new girlfriend every year because he flirts with every girl he comes across. Me, I'm a good guy too, but I'll be overlooked because that guy's grabbing all the attention. That guy could very well be a twinky jerk, but because he acts nice over 70% of the time when being watched, everyone thinks positively of him. I can't think of a better solution, but just my opinion.

[staggerlee]

Heh, I'd find it interesting if staff actually played with players to review them.

Personally, I would never use review. I shudder to think that my account notes might have written about me breaking rules, not having enough emotion, eating without emoting, that sort of thing. I do play well at times, I think, but I enjoy the feeling of being alone when I am alone, and the natural movements and thoughts that come with it. Feeling like someone's watching me would make me play a very boring, average character.

IMHO, I don't really feel like a review option is fair. It's like seeing that guy in high school who has a new girlfriend every year because he flirts with every girl he comes across. Me, I'm a good guy too, but I'll be overlooked because that guy's grabbing all the attention. That guy could very well be a twinky jerk, but because he acts nice over 70% of the time when being watched, everyone thinks positively of him. I can't think of a better solution, but just my opinion.

It's likely that you are often being watched.  Sometimes reactions might go into account notes you can't see. Sometimes they might not be written down at all.

But you can be sure that people are watching you, whether staff or player.  It's a lovely little panopticon.

[tortall]

I always thought the review flag was there for the imms to look over you for a bit, leave a comment or two, and that was all.

Or, that's how I understood it when they first implemented it. That was ages ago though. I'm one of those that never took it off. I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if you really like what I'm doing. I do like the suggestion that you do something like a request every 6 months for them to look in depth at your playing style for say, 2-4 weeks, and email you comments from there. When you submit you could give your general play times do that they would know when is best to check up on you.

[FantasyWriter]

My idea has already been mentioned more or less, but here it is anyway:

Do away with the review flag.

Then do one of three things:
1) When someone puts in an account notes request, have their staff/unclanned imms watching them on an off for a couple of days and add at least one new comment before sending it to the player.

2) New request too option: Account review (can only be used once every four months)
Clan staff reviews your play on an off for a couple day, and notes your account, sending you only the "new" notes they added.


3) both #1 and #2.  (This gives players four total account review per year.)

[brytta.leofa]

I'm one of those that never took it off.  I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if you really like what I'm doing.

Yup, same here: I somehow took it as more of an "am open to all suggestions."

Suggest:
- Add "Roleplay Review" to the request tool.
- Keep the review flag to help staff keep track of in-progress review requests, but remove the review command for players.

[FantasyWriter]

I'm one of those that never took it off.  I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if you really like what I'm doing.

Yup, same here: I somehow took it as more of an "am open to all suggestions."

Me three.

[Synthesis]

I'm one of those that never took it off. I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if you really like what I'm doing.

In bed.

[flurry]

• Get rid of the review flag for non-newbies.
• Encourage clan staff to offer the occasional comment about characters they already monitor.
• Provide more resources on the web page about roleplay, improving emotes and descriptions, playing a leader, finding plots, initiating plots, and so on.
• Encourage kudos.

[Kevo]

I thought the idea had was pretty good, till Adhira explained how the review command worked, mostly that it flagged you. Considering the 150? players we have, that wouldn't really help. I had hoped the imms had a command similiar to who review: SMuz, Kevo, Fathi....etc, and thought it would be more effecient to have it organized by the date that someone turned there flag on, who review: Synthesis (1989), Flurry (12/4/1992), Medena (4/1/2002), etc. Once one imm who takes responsibility for reviewing the player searches out and finds the player, or not, they would turn of the player's flag, or not.

Now, after hearing some of these ideas, I've come to think that the review request option would be a good idea. That would mean a lot less review flagged players running around, in turn meaning those who wanted to be reviewed would recieve the attention they wanted.

We could do away with reviews, but would people feel happy about getting occassional off the cuff one liners such as "Spends a lot of time tucked away in apartments", "Some great emoting, seems to be really get the hang of things". Instead of an email that would perhaps go in to more depth on why getting out of the apartment is a good idea, what emotes were liked, and where they could add to their arsenal. I'd be fine with doing away with the review flag if commentary rather than review is what players are after.

If people do think that a review of sorts is more appropriate:  What about if we put the review flag request through the tool, allowing it to be selected only once every 6 months. Staff would then add the flag to the players in game. We as staff would have to actively work to make sure that we start watching those who need reviewing (likely clan staff would take their clan members to make it part of the normal work we do). For me as a staff member I'd be more likely to put the time in to doing reviews if I knew that the person really wanted it, and hadn't just set the flag a long time ago and forgotten it, and also if there were less of them in the game at any one time.

When I first turned on my flag, I wanted a review. I thought it'd be a formal, okay, here's your review thing. Since I never seen one of those come my way, I never turned my flag off. After that, I just kind of forgot it was on, till one day I came across it again in the help files. I do think the review is a great request option, since I for one would still like to have my roleplay reviewed occasionally (once a year, for me, would be good, but I think 6 months is a great option for time delay). Although, I'd still be open to commentary. Is commentary added only when the imm's see that the review flag is on?

Do away with the IG command, make it a request tool option, set it for 6 months, add commentary when necessary/desired/approriate to the player's permanent record, and I doubt there's much more that could be done to make it better.

[Clearsighted]

Howabout doing away with the review command, and everytime someone is going to be given a negative or positive account note, to have a small message shot to them about what they're doing right or wrong? Hearing what they're doing right isn't so important, but hearing what they're doing wrong is.

[Lizzie]

Actually I feel hearing what you're doing right is just as important as hearing what you're doing wrong. If all I ever heard about were the negatives, I would come to think very negatively about my own roleplay, and my own participation in the game. I would also start feeling negatively about the staff, since they never have anything good to say. So, not only would I feel that I am significantly lacking in roleplay, but I would also feel that the staff sucks.

Fortunately, that isn't how it works. If they have good things to say about you, eventually, you get to hear about it. We don't need cookies every time we use an emote in a funny way. But getting a pat on the back when they notice we're improving, or struggling with something complex, or do something really stellar, goes a LONG way to keep players involved and interested in staying put in Armageddon.

[Adhira]

Thanks for the commentary all. We'll be talking about this some more at the staff level so expect some changes upcoming here.

[FantasyWriter]

Thanks for the commentary all. We'll be talking about this some more at the staff level so expect some changes upcoming here.

WOOHOO!

[Malken]

What I really really really really would like is to please please please please SEND the bad note as an email, as a 'warning' before it makes it permanently on the player's file.

There's nothing that bums me out more than reading a note on my account 8 months later and never realizing in the past that what I was doing was seen as suspicious or
as twinkish behavior by an admin.

If you are my clan Staffer and you think that I'm spam casting too often, or not emoting my crafts enough, or mining obsidian too often, or over-hunting the grasslands, PLEASE
let me know via email and just don't add it to my account for me to read 8 months later and twenty characters later.. Chances are I'll just keep dragging that behavior from
character to character, thinking that what I'm doing is perfectly fine.

[Synthesis]

What I really really really really would like is to please please please please SEND the bad note as an email, as a 'warning' before it makes it permanently on the player's file.

There's nothing that bums me out more than reading a note on my account 8 months later and never realizing in the past that what I was doing was seen as suspicious or
as twinkish behavior by an admin.

If you are my clan Staffer and you think that I'm spam casting too often, or not emoting my crafts enough, or mining obsidian too often, or over-hunting the grasslands, PLEASE
let me know via email and just don't add it to my account for me to read 8 months later and twenty characters later.. Chances are I'll just keep dragging that behavior from
character to character, thinking that what I'm doing is perfectly fine.

This I can totally identify and agree with.

[FantasyWriter]

Agreed.... it IS possible for something to be done out of ignorance.

[SMuz]

Bah, I've decided to give in and turn this on. It's creeping me out, especially when I'm idling, but after a few days, I'll probably forget that it's on. I suppose it's better than if I kept asking around whether its fine to do certain things. There's only so much information that can be passed around from questions and the GDB.

[Zoltan]

Actually I feel hearing what you're doing right is just as important as hearing what you're doing wrong. If all I ever heard about were the negatives, I would come to think very negatively about my own roleplay, and my own participation in the game. I would also start feeling negatively about the staff, since they never have anything good to say. So, not only would I feel that I am significantly lacking in roleplay, but I would also feel that the staff sucks.

On my last character, I was just tooling about, unclanned, and got an encouraging email from a staffer after a little event. It made me feel all warm and fuzzy, and for the first time I was certain that I was "getting" the game. Criticism is good to become a better RPer and avoid douche-y behavior, but positive reinforcement is AWESOME. Now, I'd feel weird if I got this kind of attention frequently, so I've never touched my review flag (don't know if it's default on or off... maybe I did touch it, and just don't remember...)