Wild Life Unbalanced?

[Synthesis]

Also, I'm not sure if it has ever been fixed, but in the past my other complaint is even though tracking animals show a hunt echo, they do not in fact use the skill, they know where you are because the code knows.

I would disagree with this much.  If you notice a bug or problem, you should bug it in-game. 
I checked one such creature that I know uses the hunt skill; seems to be working fine (even after testing it).

While just going out on a limb and guessing I admit, I think maybe it just feels like the animals are just using the code and not the skill because of a few side factors. Like ... they regen stamina a lot faster than we do so they don't have to stop and rest before following after us ... even though we have to stop and rest while running from them. And ... I believe it was once said in the Code Discussion that despite the actual path a character takes ... the tracking animal will just move towards them via the fastest route available, and not actually retrace their footsteps.

Right.  In fact, if you successfully hide, the animal tracking you will remain in the room that it was in when you hid (even if this is not the room you hid in), constantly hunting over and over until you break your hide status.  (However, the last time I checked this was probably a year or more ago, so maybe it's changed.)

[Jarek]

Nyr, shoot me if I'm wrong, but from my experience it goes like this.  These new tarantula group from 14-20 all coming from one singular location.  Now these tarantula immediately start hiding and sneaking along until they find something that kills them.  The problem is, to my knowledge, these things respawn exceptionally fast, less then five to ten minutes, unless you're handling 50 spawns out of a cave, instead of 20.  This means these tarantula aren't sticking to one habitat, they've been found as far as the silt road.  That combined with the new incursion of raptors, which are less migratory, and the beetles, which seem to have always been, and you're pulling a pretty nasty scenario.

Now, I don't have a problem with dangerous wildlife, as long as it is separated and contained.  I'd like to see raptors in one or two areas, with borders, beetles in one area, with borders, tarantula in one or two with borders, and scrab (we should really consider upping the number of scrab and isolating them as well)  I think this would do a lot to alleviate the problem.

[Jarek]

Right.  In fact, if you successfully hide, the animal tracking you will remain in the room that it was in when you hid (even if this is not the room you hid in), constantly hunting over and over until you break your hide status.  (However, the last time I checked this was probably a year or more ago, so maybe it's changed.)

I know the new raptor do this.

[FightClub]

I enjoy the new wildlife added into Allanak, it really flavors things, and adds to the scene.  I'd hate to see them reduced in number, because they've honestly given hunters something new to do/avoid.  It also gives newbies extra incentive to join the Byn, which from my experience, is a good thing.  Separating the mobs would be a good thing though, so people hunting scrab aren't having to wade through spider infested hell.  I doubt spiders would support another predator in their habitat anyway.

I think it would also be an interesting chance for the staff to add some diversity to the new wildlife.  I'd like to see them acting territorial to other species as they are to PC's, I've already seen the neatness of spiders cannibalizing one another when one falls, and it really is, an interesting touch.

[X-D]

I've bugged it before Nyr. Many many times. Like I said, I do not know if it has been fixed since...BUT.

A couple years ago, I tested tracking animals a TON. First, They did not have to follow the same route the pc did, They would take the short route even if it meant going many rooms out of the way of the PC they are/were tracking. This means they are not using the track skill, I do not care what the echo says. Second, I then spent a bunch of time testing the the tracking animals using the hide skill. Get one tracking my PC, move off say 5 rooms east. Watch west. Soon animal comes tracking along. Hide, Animal stops 3 rooms away tracking over and over and over and over and over 3 rooms away. Break hide, Animal starts moving, hide, animal stops and you see the hunt echo for as long as you remain hid. So alright, Last test. Know that the gates close on the city when an agro animal arrives. Go to the gate, 1 room inside, watch west, Animal comes along, gate closes. Run to another gate on the other side of the city (barrier up through this just in case they are psi tracking mobs) watch east. 15 minutes later, gates slam shut because of the animal outside it. And people are saying this is still the way it is, So, tracking creatures are not using the hunt skill...Oh, they might have it, they might even "trigger" it to get the echo, but the game sends them in the direction of the visable PC, it does not follow a set of tracks. And to tell you the truth, I think it does it on the same script that soldiers use to get PCs to jail no matter where they are by the shortest route.

[Searanox]

Wow... That's severely dissatisfying.

[Gunnerblaster]

I'm glad I brought this up because this really seems to be something that needs to get picked and poked at a bit more.

[FightClub]

I'm glad I brought this up because this really seems to be something that needs to get picked and poked at a bit more.

Trust me, it's being picked and poked at, and we've been picked and poked at as well, a lot.  I've submitted a few bugs on the newer mobs myself.

In hindsight, I bet the players will be a bit more cautious when asking for more mobs to hunt, next time. 

"Be careful what you wish for."

[Gunnerblaster]

I'm glad I brought this up because this really seems to be something that needs to get picked and poked at a bit more.

Trust me, it's being picked and poked at, and we've been picked and poked at as well, a lot.  I've submitted a few bugs on the newer mobs myself.

In hindsight, I bet the players will be a bit more cautious when asking for more mobs to hunt, next time. 

"Be careful what you wish for."

I actually had no idea until after the code went in.

If you ask me, I enjoyed the nice and airy sands of the south - Just riding along, enjoying the beautiful (terrible) weather of the South - The endless sand dunes sometimes broken by the half-buried obstruction in the sand or a scrab or two crawling about.

Nowadays, you can't walk out the gates without getting harassed by -something-.

Sheesh. All you whipper-snappers and your "new wildlife" critters.

[Nyr]

I've bugged it before Nyr. Many many times. Like I said, I do not know if it has been fixed since...BUT.

A couple years ago, I tested tracking animals a TON. First, They did not have to follow the same route the pc did, They would take the short route even if it meant going many rooms out of the way of the PC they are/were tracking. This means they are not using the track skill, I do not care what the echo says. Second, I then spent a bunch of time testing the the tracking animals using the hide skill. Get one tracking my PC, move off say 5 rooms east. Watch west. Soon animal comes tracking along. Hide, Animal stops 3 rooms away tracking over and over and over and over and over 3 rooms away. Break hide, Animal starts moving, hide, animal stops and you see the hunt echo for as long as you remain hid. So alright, Last test. Know that the gates close on the city when an agro animal arrives. Go to the gate, 1 room inside, watch west, Animal comes along, gate closes. Run to another gate on the other side of the city (barrier up through this just in case they are psi tracking mobs) watch east. 15 minutes later, gates slam shut because of the animal outside it. And people are saying this is still the way it is, So, tracking creatures are not using the hunt skill...Oh, they might have it, they might even "trigger" it to get the echo, but the game sends them in the direction of the visable PC, it does not follow a set of tracks. And to tell you the truth, I think it does it on the same script that soldiers use to get PCs to jail no matter where they are by the shortest route.

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,7381.msg70561.html#msg70561

I stand corrected.

[X-D]

Wow...I posted that like 5 years ago....and here I was saying a couple.

Anywho, I still think the best, or at least easiest fix would be to put a timer on how long they will hunt a PC.

Say 5-10 min based on how "smart" Staff thinks the animal should be. Maybe 10-20 on humanoid types. I have no problem with a mantis or a halfling  being willing to track you much longer and farther then an animal would.

Oh, I still like all the life in the south now.

[musashi]

I second X-D's idea ... if the animals gave up after a bit it would be a nice fix imo as well. That way those not knowledgable about surviving in the wild could still be hunted down and eaten, while the seasoned ranger would stand a much better chance of getting away.

All would be right in the world 

[Thunkkin]

Yeah, let's not bash the addition and variety of wildlife - that was something that was begged for for a long time.

[Searanox]

Wow...I posted that like 5 years ago....and here I was saying a couple.

Anywho, I still think the best, or at least easiest fix would be to put a timer on how long they will hunt a PC.

Say 5-10 min based on how "smart" Staff thinks the animal should be. Maybe 10-20 on humanoid types. I have no problem with a mantis or a halfling  being willing to track you much longer and farther then an animal would.

Oh, I still like all the life in the south now.

Good idea, but in 5-10 minutes you can get from Allanak to Tuluk (if running from scary hunting monsters)

[Jingo]

Hunting raptors can also track through darkness and sheer sandstorms. I know because they killed my Drovian.

[Sephiroto]

It's the same way warrior soldiers have perfect vision and can spot an invisible magicker in pitch black.  NPC's aren't bound by the same laws of physics as PC's are, unfortunately.

As for NPC's hunting you without following your actual trail and taking short cuts....I suppose this is similar to a certain magick spell.  The staff might want to look at it.

[X-D]

Why would they, It is magick. And I know which they are and they are working according to the help file.

And yes, NPCs don't work under the same physics as PCs. BUT, at least this has been getting slowly fixed. Either by adding such skills as blind fighting or by giving NPCs movement delays and skill delays. Hopefully by continuing to point out what still needs to be fixed, it will get done.

It was not that long ago when all NPCs could perform every action they were scripted to perform in 1 round, were all immune to poison, could run from one gate of nak to the other in 1.2 seconds or faster.

True, they can still see perfectly in blinding sandstorms and know exactly where your PC is without error and regen stam without resting and HP as well as long as they have more then 0, Though if at 0 or less they will never heal...oddly. And many timed spells seem to last until the npc is dead or a reboot. Hell, not that long ago wagons with NPC pilots could set land speed records between the cities.

[DustMight]

Bring back the roving gith death squads instead.

Yo, I remember those!  It was crazy back in the early 90s with the Gith - you think it's suicidal now??

Sad, though, that the north seems to get all the breaks.  Where's the love for 'nak?

Edit to add:

This is a great roleplay opportunity, actually.  Lots to do about this new threat. It actually could be looked at as a gift.  Is it hard for you, yeah - but hard with RP potential is better than easy without.  In that sense, 'nak actually gets all the breaks and Tuluk remains crap.  (Note: I may be a little biased.)

[AJM]

Bring back the roving gith death squads instead.

Yo, I remember those!  It was crazy back in the early 90s with the Gith - you think it's suicidal now??

Sad, though, that the north seems to get all the breaks.  Where's the love for 'nak?

>forage love
>You begin searching the area intently.

>You look around, but don't find any love.

Gasp your right!

[X-D]

I actually miss the roving gith death squads....but not the fire ants.

[Whoa Nelly]

I actually miss the roving gith death squads....but not the fire ants.

What about those tricky tendrils?  They were the worst.  The way they operated could mean instant death for the most seasoned of veterans, and often did if you weren't careful or fell for their ploy.

Hope that's not too IC.

My main argument is that Allanak, even with the beefier and more plentiful creatures, is pretty mild compared to how it has been in the past.  Allanak has always been "hard", but I think it has a certain undeniable "balance" currently.  It's possible to travel in and out of Allanak without having a huge squad of mercenaries at your back (though some seem to argue that this doesn't make it better or more fun), and it hasn't always been like that.

[Twilight]

Maybe this could only happen in Arm 2, but it would be nice if something was implemented so that a critter only tracked you a set number of rooms, or a set amount of time, that afterwards it returned to the area it started hunting from.  I would think that 80% of the code to do this would already be in place, it would just have to be utilized differently; marking the room at which the hunting animal starts the hunt action, and then converting certain output into direction commands for the critter.

[FantasyWriter]

A raptor followed me and a friend all the way into a bar once.  A whole IC day after we got there.

[staggerlee]

A raptor followed me and a friend all the way into a bar once.  A whole IC day after we got there.

So two noobs and a raptor walk into a bar...  

I don't know if I support a nerf to the npc tracking ability, even to balance it with pcs. A range cap or assigning it as a skill as with pcs could very thoroughly neuter their ability to actually pursue, and as it stands npcs already have a whole ton of disadvantages.

All in all I have mixed feelings about the subject. It would be nice if the behavior of wildlife was dynamic and interesting, but any changes to their code need to keep in mind that they behave in a very simple, predictable manner, have no memory, and are easily exploited. Which is just as well, otherwise they might end up doing something silly like building orbital weapons platforms.

[Lakota]

Just code the entire known world to mirror the dynamic abilities of the Xytrix Za.

That might be asking a bit much of the staff though, considering 2.0 is on the (distant?) horizon.