Special apps

[Lakota]

Get rid of this shit. We don't need it. Why do we have players asking to play roles they lack the karma for? That defeats the purpose of the karma system. If you don't have the karma necessary to play a nilazi, then too bad.

If you do not have karma and feel like you've been overlooked, request your account notes. It works.

Allow players to ask for sponsored roles in clans and such, so long as they have the karma. Allow players to request extra skills or perhaps other things to round out a unique concept they have in mind, so long as they have proven themselves capable in the past.

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

Cutting out these sort of special applications will free up immortal time and let staffers focus on what they -should- be spending their time on: clans, their players, and Armageddon Reborn.

[Synthesis]

I've gotten exactly 1 of my 5 karma points by a staff member actually giving me a high-five.  The rest I've earned as a result of requesting characters by special application, and then playing them responsibly enough to keep the options.  The Staff don't have enough time to watch over every player in the game closely enough to reward everyone for doing a good job.  The special application system functions sort of as a "trial run" for players who have otherwise gone unrecognized:  you get one chance to prove you can handle the responsibility, and if you blow it, it'll be a long time before you earn enough trust to give it another shot.

So, no.  Sorry you apparently got burned, but the system works.

[Lakota]

I've gotten exactly 1 of my 5 karma points by a staff member actually giving me a high-five.

And I've gotten all of mine by asking for staff to review my account notes, and by also playing sensitive roles that garnered more attention from staff, i.e. serving as a clan leader.

It is my opinion that having staff look over your account every year will, on average, yield a karma point if you have nothing negative against you. Something akin to "Set karma to 2, seems to be doing well, no complaints."

The Staff don't have enough time to watch over every player in the game closely enough to reward everyone for doing a good job.

Hence, requesting staff to look over your account notes.

The special application system functions sort of as a "trial run" for players who have otherwise gone unrecognized.

I don't think letting an unproven player test drive a Ferrari is a good idea.

You get one chance to prove you can handle the responsibility, and if you blow it, it'll be a long time before you earn enough trust to give it another shot.

Or you could prove to staff you can handle the responsibility by faithfully abiding by the documentation in a clan/tribe for a few in game years. Learn to stay alive for prolonged periods of time, promote plots, and drive other players to roleplay with their surrounding environment. Most players who are "good" are usually recognized. Those that fall through the cracks, as I have stated previously, can easily request a review of their account. Review flag does wonders, also.

So, no.  Sorry you apparently got burned, but the system works.

No, I was not burned. I've mulled over how things have changed with this mud over the past few years, and have come to the conclusion that:

Over time, enough players have accrued at least a few points of karma that an influx of karma-sensitive characters may potentially populate the mud at any given time.

Also, when coupled with special application karma-roles, you receive an even greater influx (potentially, if you take a conservative approach and settle on at least half of players who have karma use it on a semi-regular basis).

I disagree with you that the system works. I have witnessed countless times players mishandling high-karma roles. It's disheartening to see.

[Cerelum]

The staff are extremely picky when they allow you to play a special application.

Plus I'm pretty damned sure if Nessalin or Belenos or whoever is doing the special applications approves someone to play say a Mindbender, I'm sure they watch that person like a hawk.  So if he starts melting brains of newbies, I'm pretty sure he'll be yanked anyways.

Special applications are awesome, I just wish that they didn't have such a long time limit on them. (In case you're denied)

JaRoD

[Archbaron]

Get rid of this shit. We don't need it. Why do we have players asking to play roles they lack the karma for? That defeats the purpose of the karma system. If you don't have the karma necessary to play a nilazi, then too bad.

The karma system only worked when the player-to-staff ratio was much lower. Now we have a very active playerbase which makes monitoring players AND working on Arm 2.0 quite a task. Special applications allow players who have happened to achieve certain notes on their account to prove themselves further to staff with sensitive roles. If they're handled badly, then they're reprimanded. Bad behavior is almost always caught, as opposed to good behavior.

If you do not have karma and feel like you've been overlooked, request your account notes. It works.

On my last point, this doesn't always. Perhaps you have one or two very good notes, but it's not enough to spark interest in awarding karma, then now you have to wait six months.

Allow players to ask for sponsored roles in clans and such, so long as they have the karma. Allow players to request extra skills or perhaps other things to round out a unique concept they have in mind, so long as they have proven themselves capable in the past.

This is doable in my mind.

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

I'd wager that the amount of people with karma that are not handling characters correctly and those who specially apply for them are around the same.

Cutting out these sort of special applications will free up immortal time and let staffers focus on what they -should- be spending their time on: clans, their players, and Armageddon Reborn.

Special applications take up the time of ONE immortal. This immortal is chosen because they can obviously spare the time.

[Lakota]

The karma system only worked when the player-to-staff ratio was much lower.

Ten years ago our playerbase would fluctuate at around the same levels as they do now, with even less staff.

[...]AND working on Arm 2.0 quite a task.

You have a point here.

Bad behavior is almost always caught, as opposed to good behavior.

Are you speaking from experience, or just with an air of sarcasm?

I'd wager that the amount of people with karma that are not handling characters correctly and those who specially apply for them are around the same.

You'd likely be wrong, though neither of us know for sure.

This immortal is chosen because they can obviously spare the time.

I'm not so certain this is the case. They probably just pulled the short straw. 

[LittleLostThief]

Ten years ago our playerbase would fluctuate at around the same levels as they do now, with even less staff.

Maybe if you were smoking crack.  I pulled out my logs from the destruction of Tuluk (that's destruction, not conquering+occupation), and the HRPT netted about 44 players.

44 players for the destruction of a major city.

[Archbaron]

Ten years ago our playerbase would fluctuate at around the same levels as they do now, with even less staff.

Armageddon didn't have peaks of 60-80 per night ten years ago, I'd wager.

Are you speaking from experience, or just with an air of sarcasm?

A little of both. The point being, someone going with the flow and doing what needs to be done is much more overlooked than that spamcaster or sneak-spammer.

You'd likely be wrong, though neither of us know for sure.

Right, then how can you use that in your argument in the first place?

I'm not so certain this is the case. They probably just pulled the short straw. 

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. This is a volunteer position, they're not going to be shoved into a corner with stacks of time-consuming applications if they didn't want to.

[brytta.leofa]

If spec apps are going crazy, a helpful rule might be: no applyin' for published options more than two karma above your current level.  (If you enumerate such a rule with one karma instead of two, you'll have a lot of halfhearted delf and half-giant applications, and surely nobody wants that.)

Though I expect that that's already more or less the rule of thumb.

[a strange shadow]

I'm with Lakota. Special apps always seemed like an unecessary headache.

That said, a hardline "no" might end up being a turnoff to many players. Is there a happy medium? Is it what we have (i.e. low priority special application que, with a lot of players whining about how long it takes to get through the system)?

[Archbaron]

The thing about special applications that I argue is the fact that they allow for finer crafting of characters. Aside from people applying for generic karma levels, a lot of people apply for characters with special exceptions or skills or expertise out of the box. Now, most would argue that "Oh, these players should pursue that IC." But in all truthfulness, some things require staff intervention, and most staff would tell players to pursue it through a special application because then all the things wanted by a character are laid out in the beginning.

[Fathi]

I've got mixed feelings on the topic.

On one hand, I enjoy the idea of special apps because sometimes it isn't just about wanting to app into a clan or wanting to play something above your karma level. Even if "i'm at 2 karma and want to play a krathi" special apps were removed, I'd like to see the feature kept as-is (being a low priority option but still existent) for people who want to play truly 'special' applications that aren't clan specific and wouldn't go through clan immortals.

If I want to start a character with some pre-branched skills or maybe a character with some extra skills that coincide with their subguild, I'd like there to still be an option. Hell, I was told I'd have to special app it if I wanted to play a character with northern accent and Tuluki caste tattoos but not start in Tuluk. Concepts like that shouldn't be barred just because they're "special."

That said, I've long been in favour of Brytta's suggestion in regards to only being able to apply for "regular" karma roles if they're within 2 or 3 of your karma level.

Good players DO fall through the cracks. The karma system isn't flawless. Unfortunately, other than having a specific set of staffers assigned to doing karma reviews, I can't think of anything that would really help. And that would waste even more time than special applications already do.

[Archbaron]

On one hand, I enjoy the idea of special apps because sometimes it isn't just about wanting to app into a clan or wanting to play something above your karma level. Even if "i'm at 2 karma and want to play a krathi" special apps were removed, I'd like to see the feature kept as-is (being a low priority option but still existent) for people who want to play truly 'special' applications that aren't clan specific and wouldn't go through clan immortals.

If I want to start a character with some pre-branched skills or maybe a character with some extra skills that coincide with their subguild, I'd like there to still be an option. Hell, I was told I'd have to special app it if I wanted to play a character with northern accent and Tuluki caste tattoos but not start in Tuluk. Concepts like that shouldn't be barred just because they're "special."

This sums up what I think in more beautiful words.

[Lakota]

Right, then how can you use that in your argument in the first place?

Did I?

I wouldn't be so quick to say that. This is a volunteer position, they're not going to be shoved into a corner with stacks of time-consuming applications if they didn't want to.

I honestly doubt anyone volunteers to do special applications unless they're just being nice. Or have a deathwish.

I'd like to see the feature kept as-is (being a low priority option but still existent) for people who want to play truly 'special' applications that aren't clan specific and wouldn't go through clan immortals.

As would I.

If I want to start a character with some pre-branched skills or maybe a character with some extra skills that coincide with their subguild, I'd like there to still be an option.

I agree. I just don't think that allowing players with 3 karma the chance to play a nilaz is very wise.

[Archbaron]

Did I?

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

That's what I interpreted.

[FightClub]

Get rid of this shit. We don't need it. Why do we have players asking to play roles they lack the karma for? That defeats the purpose of the karma system. If you don't have the karma necessary to play a nilazi, then too bad.

If you do not have karma and feel like you've been overlooked, request your account notes. It works.

Allow players to ask for sponsored roles in clans and such, so long as they have the karma. Allow players to request extra skills or perhaps other things to round out a unique concept they have in mind, so long as they have proven themselves capable in the past.

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

Cutting out these sort of special applications will free up immortal time and let staffers focus on what they -should- be spending their time on: clans, their players, and Armageddon Reborn.

I disagree with this entirely.  I went through my first six pc's one of which was a fifteen day pc, without getting a point of karma, or a single account note.  It was only after I requested to do a special app (my first delf) that I was actually permitted my first point of karma.  I'd be more in favor of getting rid of Karma, and having everything done through special apps, but that would make the staff's job even harder.

[Lakota]

Did I?

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

That's what I interpreted.

I see. I didn't say everyone did it. Some do excel. A few bad apples, though...well, you get it.

[FightClub]

Actually to correct the above, I don't disagree with it entirely.  I'd like to see more moderation, and better adherence to the documentation.  No non-human psionics, less sorcerors for people that don't have the karma.  Stuff like that.

[Clearsighted]

Get rid of this shit. We don't need it. Why do we have players asking to play roles they lack the karma for? That defeats the purpose of the karma system. If you don't have the karma necessary to play a nilazi, then too bad.

If you do not have karma and feel like you've been overlooked, request your account notes. It works.

Allow players to ask for sponsored roles in clans and such, so long as they have the karma. Allow players to request extra skills or perhaps other things to round out a unique concept they have in mind, so long as they have proven themselves capable in the past.

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

Cutting out these sort of special applications will free up immortal time and let staffers focus on what they -should- be spending their time on: clans, their players, and Armageddon Reborn.

1) I don't think staff is spending THAT much time on special apps.

2) There are other reasons for special apping than playing something above your karma limit.

[Lakota]

1) I don't think staff is spending THAT much time on special apps.

2) There are other reasons for special apping than playing something above your karma limit.

I know. Read the rest of my posts.

Edit**

Here:

Allow players to ask for sponsored roles in clans and such, so long as they have the karma. Allow players to request extra skills or perhaps other things to round out a unique concept they have in mind, so long as they have proven themselves capable in the past.

From the op.

In other words, allow for players to request special skills, sponsored roles, and other unique attributes they would otherwise be unable to get from chargen.

[jstorrie]

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

Guess we better take warrior, ranger and assassin off the 0-karma list, then!

[Lakota]

I'm tired of buttons that launch nuclear weapons being put beneath the twitching digits of tards.

Guess we better take warrior, ranger and assassin off the 0-karma list, then!

Yeah, because they are as strong as four spells off the top of my head that can potentially kill everyone in the room at once! 

[Jingo]

How about we drop everyone to 0 karma and make everything else a special app?

[Doppelganger]

I tend to agree with Lakota on this one.

My performance drastically improves when I know that I am being watched. I can jump over my head when placed in the same room with ERS*, LOD* and Malifaxis* and given a central role on the stage. Unfortunately, while evaluating the level of  harm I am able to bring to the game, it's my lowest, instead of highest, level of responsibility karma system should be concerned with. I don't think that it's good idea to base the only system of player motivation upon one-time and very special one-life performances.

Even if we insist to evaluate special roles for permanent karma, I would suggest to put more emphasis on how people handle jobs instead of how they abuse reward. Increasing level of concurrence among less desirable sponsored roles such as noble and GMH family members should be more effective than spawning the world with already beyond popular magickers.
Among the other things, these roles are a great school of being constructive, while using very little of one's own coded abilities.

It's not the raw damage in the hands of the unworthy that frightens me, it's the popular belief that there is nothing left in the game other than killing "mobs" and collecting boots.

* - the name is provided by random name genertor and bears no connection with a real person, creature or event

[SMuz]

The staff seem to have mentioned many, many times that it's the lowest priority. And by that, I'm assuming that even if all of them do it, they do it after everything else is finished.

Hmm.. I don't know. I've never really seen power abuse in the game. If anyone's playing above their karma, then they're apparently doing the right thing. Except those 'gickers who are just being dicks; I've only heard rumors about them, so it's entirely possible that they're playing well and actually spreading rumors about themselves rather than abusing their powers.

You know what shouldn't be 0-karma? Pickpockets. Gah, I'd like to smack the next guy who tries to pickpocket soldiers but avoid PCs.