It would be nice...

[Cerelum]

I am enjoying your use of my thread, lots of good ideas coming out of here, good job.  And naysayers actually are being respectful for the most part when they don't like something.

I haven't seen anyone blatently troll yet.  Continue, live long and prosper and that shit.

JaRoD

PS.  I think ranger's sneak and hide skill (when they get them) is useless due to the fact they take so much stamina to use, and you can't rest while hidden (Ducking behind a dune of sand, you rest.) and I do think that should be fixed.  This is the main reason you see mounted riders chasing a duskhorn through fifteen rooms just to engage it in melee combat after it gets exhausted.

[musashi]

I think it's a playbility thing. Since it takes an unrealisitc amount of arrows to drop something (esp if you aren't very skilled with archery yet) ... not having to run it out of endurance first so I can shoot it means I have more time to emote stuff, and less obligation to spam commands through the desert trying to hunt.

[FantasyWriter]

I think more intelligent wildlife AI (or all NPCs, for that matter) would make everyone happy.

[musashi]

I think more intelligent wildlife AI (or all NPCs, for that matter) would make everyone happy.

+1 to that.

[Qzzrbl]

I think it's a playbility thing. Since it takes an unrealisitc amount of arrows to drop something (esp if you aren't very skilled with archery yet) ... not having to run it out of endurance first so I can shoot it means I have more time to emote stuff, and less obligation to spam commands through the desert trying to hunt.

I think stuff like carru should be really hard to kill. Maybe an "almost there" hunter could let loose an arrow, track the carru, follow the blood trails, find it, shoot again, or whatever.

Like I was saying earlier, a carru could probably feed a family for a week or two, not to mention the stuff that can be made from their pelts. They really shouldn't be newbie huntables.

Now maybe some reptilian Zalanthan versions of nutria rats, and maybe some slow, lumbering grass grazers could be available so that new ranger could feed himself and others. Thoughthe furs and meat from them wouldn't exactly be the highest of quality by any means.

::Edit:: Maybe we can throw some called shots in there for best results too.

Most archers don't aim for the head/neck of the deer, or boar, or bear, or whatever, they go for a little behind the shoulder. It's a bigger target, and if the arrow has enough force ti it, it'll go all the way through, it'll puncture lungs and other vitals, leading to a clean kill.

[jstorrie]

I have not read the old called shots threads so I'm just speculating but I think other folk's problem with it goes something along the lines of: Right now the damage bonuses for neck shots and the like are very very very very very high, and it's somewhat balanced out by the fact that it's a rarity when it happens.

My dislike of called shots stems from the same reason I dislike the various 'critical strike' ideas. Melee combat is a very fluid, organic, chaotic thing. Your PC is always swinging at whatever he can best hit given how your opponent has opened themselves up. Two fighting people aren't static entities, taking turns targeting sections of each other; they're in a heap, scrapping. Moreover, code already takes this into account; the better a fighter you are, the more often you'll hit those vulnerable locations and the less likely you'll hit the sucky locations. The best of the best (ie, warriors) can also already call shots to disarm (disarm) or shots to knockdown/unbalance (bash). All called shot systems presented so far have been clunky, inelegant, and completely unneeded layers of additional complexity which reduce playability while adding very little of interest to Armageddon's gameplay.

There. I said my piece, because you bastards wouldn't shut up about it. I am not going to argue about it, we've all gone through this a dozen times. Called shots (and their cousins, the critical-strike-reworks-of-backstab) are one of the absolute stalest discussion topics on this board. But hey, by all means, jump through the hoops again if you want, it's a free Internet.

[Fathi]

They really shouldn't be newbie huntables.

They... aren't.

[Qzzrbl]

I have not read the old called shots threads so I'm just speculating but I think other folk's problem with it goes something along the lines of: Right now the damage bonuses for neck shots and the like are very very very very very high, and it's somewhat balanced out by the fact that it's a rarity when it happens.

My dislike of called shots stems from the same reason I dislike the various 'critical strike' ideas. Melee combat is a very fluid, organic, chaotic thing. Your PC is always swinging at whatever he can best hit given how your opponent has opened themselves up. Two fighting people aren't static entities, taking turns targeting sections of each other; they're in a heap, scrapping. Moreover, code already takes this into account; the better a fighter you are, the more often you'll hit those vulnerable locations and the less likely you'll hit the sucky locations. The best of the best (ie, warriors) can also already call shots to disarm (disarm) or shots to knockdown/unbalance (bash). All called shot systems presented so far have been clunky, inelegant, and completely unneeded layers of additional complexity which reduce playability while adding very little of interest to Armageddon's gameplay.

There. I said my piece, because you bastards wouldn't shut up about it. I am not going to argue about it, we've all gone through this a dozen times. Called shots (and their cousins, the critical-strike-reworks-of-backstab) are one of the absolute stalest discussion topics on this board. But hey, by all means, jump through the hoops again if you want, it's a free Internet.

And it's generally this attitude and absolute refusal to try to expound in the idea that gets the idea scrapped so many times.

Just answer these for me....

How come I can't I have my character concentrate his attacks -only- on my enemy's toes at the expense of a little defense and missing attack opportunities?

How doesn't it add to playability?

How come my archer can't take his time to aim at a specific body part?

There will be checks and balances to it all, it's not like anyone will be able to guarantee a called shot.

And who are you to say that -every single- fight in the game is of a pair of people tearing into eachother tooth and nail?

Sure, fighters aren't static, but like I said earlier, they're not whirlwinds of fists and blade neither.

[Qzzrbl]

They really shouldn't be newbie huntables.

They... aren't.

Eh... I didn't exactly mean it that way.

>_>

Should've chosen better wording for that.

They should be something that would require great sneaking abilities, and really good archery abilities to kill. Not something anyone can just walk up to and attack, or walk a room away and riddle full of poorly-placed arrows.

[AmandaGreathouse]

4)

More substances and drugs other than just spice.

I want to walk through the wilderness, be hungry as hell, and eat some mushrooms I find.

And those mushrooms will put me on Litharu spanking Lord Templar Hardnose while a mekillot dances ballet.

Yes to everything in your post. Without being too detailed, I already know of one thing like you're referring to. May just be a little difficult to find.

[Qzzrbl]

4)

More substances and drugs other than just spice.

I want to walk through the wilderness, be hungry as hell, and eat some mushrooms I find.

And those mushrooms will put me on Litharu spanking Lord Templar Hardnose while a mekillot dances ballet.

Yes to everything in your post. Without being too detailed, I already know of one thing like you're referring to. May just be a little difficult to find.

Yepyep.

We need moar things like it. O:

[musashi]

They really shouldn't be newbie huntables.

They... aren't.

Eh... I didn't exactly mean it that way.

>_>

Should've chosen better wording for that.

They should be something that would require great sneaking abilities, and really good archery abilities to kill. Not something anyone can just walk up to and attack, or walk a room away and riddle full of poorly-placed arrows.

IIRC you can't walk a room away and riddle a carru with arrows ... it will come to your room and say hello.

[Qzzrbl]

They really shouldn't be newbie huntables.

They... aren't.

Eh... I didn't exactly mean it that way.

>_>

Should've chosen better wording for that.

They should be something that would require great sneaking abilities, and really good archery abilities to kill. Not something anyone can just walk up to and attack, or walk a room away and riddle full of poorly-placed arrows.

IIRC you can't walk a room away and riddle a carru with arrows ... it will come to your room and say hello.

At which you flee, move two or three rooms away, and proceed to riddle.

It's really not that hard.

But! If carru were as skiddish as comparable RL animals, it would make them considerably harder to kill without making them more dangerous.

Failed sneak check from something like a four room radius, carru hears you and bolts away, and there goes your meal for the next month, and extra coin from selling the hide.

I can see cornered or wounded carru going aggro and tearing an ass up though, kinda like how comparable RL animals would.

Make hunters have to pay attention to the wind direction too, lest the carru smell the stinky Zalanthan hunter and run.
---------
Also, I see beetles, lizards, tregils, scrabs, carru, gortoks, and aaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllll these other animals living and flourishing in the wastes.

Where the hell are they getting their water?

Sure, newbie waterskins, but there simply aren't enough newbs to water -all- of them. D:

[Cerelum]

They really shouldn't be newbie huntables.

They... aren't.

Eh... I didn't exactly mean it that way.

>_>

Should've chosen better wording for that.

They should be something that would require great sneaking abilities, and really good archery abilities to kill. Not something anyone can just walk up to and attack, or walk a room away and riddle full of poorly-placed arrows.

IIRC you can't walk a room away and riddle a carru with arrows ... it will come to your room and say hello.

This has lead me many times to type

think SHIT

Flee
e e e e

JaRoD

[jstorrie]

Just answer these for me....

No. Not gonna.

[Qzzrbl]

Just answer these for me....

No. Not gonna.

Because the points are too good to argue against, and you can't come up with anything because it's actually good idea.

There's no valid reason we shouldn't have called shots.

[brytta.leofa]

Okay, moar other things, lest we accidentally the Next Called Shots Thread.

[a strange shadow]

Just answer these for me....

No. Not gonna.

Because the points are too good to argue against, and you can't come up with anything because it's actually good idea.

There's no valid reason we shouldn't have called shots.

Actually, I think he made his arguments in the original post. As it is, you're attempting to lure him into a debate he expressly said he intended not to enter, then using his unwillingness against him to try to invalidate his (valid) points.

[Dar]

At some particular skill level, with some particular weapons, (melee 'and very much' ranged), a succesfull shot to the neck or head 'kills' or near kills the person instantly. And the time requirements to reach this particular levels is 'nothing' compared to such skills as backstab or sap. They arent 'easy' to improvel ,but ...well ... actually ... they are easy to improve, it just takes time. There is no huge delay, there is minor risks. No greater risks then you'd have usually really.

To have an ability to call shots, would take such concepts as backstab or sap and simply ... toss 'em out of the window. What's a point of them, if you can simply one shot kill a person while being 3 rooms away. Rangers already make 'passable' assassins, with this ability, they'll be 'the' assassins. And warriors ... why do you even need sap? Just do a call shot to the head/neck as a warrior, and any guild except other warriors, and (if 'very' lucky) ranger/assasins with parry will survive the first round. And even with those three it's iffy, since the attacker will initiate the called shot, and the victim will not right away. By the time they'll get out of reel lock (if they even do), the battle will be long lost.

Edit:Actually, parry wont matter as much even, since you need drawn weapons for that. so it's just pure defense versus full offense/skill levels/called shot. It's already a big deal, with the third one it'd be even worse.

Perhaps I am mistaken, maybe I do not know something. But there are two abilities that already have the concept of called shot. They're called backstab and Sap. And they're offset by numerious things that's too IC to discuss, aswell as sheer difficulty in training. So yeah, I'm against called shots.

I am against thief subguilds getting peek. Because if that happens, then burglars (being mostly subpar or 'mostly' equal in everything, compared to other guilds except one singular skill) will become inadequate. And well ... to be honest, peek is more powerful then steal. If anything, I'd give peek to con artists. They dont have steal, but mostly revolve around information gathering/operating skills (merchantly arts), giving them peek might be a good addition to assess what the mark has worth swindling out of.

I am completely for pickpockets getting bludgeoning skill. It doesnt matter that no smart pickpocket will even 'choose' to fight. But you either give them bludgeoning skills, or you remove the sap skill and cure the poor pickpockets from temptation to get themselves killed.

I disagree with giving the value/haggle to those subguilds that have one of those. The main particular reason for it is ... why? What good will that give? Due to my character not having value, it had to strip once, slowly and to much amusement of the one watching. Just so my armor can get valued and discussed. So, without value, and with someone else having, a roleplaying scene occured (somewhat graphical, and very hilarious.) Same goes with haggle. Got a shitton of product you want to sell, but fear you're losing out? Hire somebody to sell for you!

I disagree with assassins learning to make cures, before learning how to apply poisons. Infact ... personally, I prefer assassins to 'never' learn how to make cures. I know it's logical, they're kind of themathically related, but ... come on! Make assassins rely on physicians/rangers to make cures 'for' them. Poisoning is already awfully easy to improve, with just a semblance of foresight.

I dont like the idea of rangers resting while hidden. Mainly because then ... rangers would 'never' rest unhidden. It would be an automatic thing for me. I just dont see any kind of benefit from that, except to those who play those rangers. No need to make snipe/hide tactics easier.


Things that I would like happen.

1.) Make dismount command emote. You can rest (emote how you're performing it) But cant dismount (emote how you're doing it)

2.) Knife belts. Please, please, please remove the 'knife' keyword from them. How many times people wearing knife belts, included their belts in their emotes, instead of knives they're wielding? How many times people ended up removing their belts when trying to put down their knives. How many times, people tried putting knives into the very belts, and getting headaches. We understand they're knife belts, but they've got other keywords to them ... like belts. The maximum problem that might occur is you putting knives into a wrong belt. The maximum good, is that you wont end up tearing away your belt, and unable to draw your weapons that hang to the belts, in the worsts of moments.

3.) Give warriors and merchants another type of value that only works on weapons/armor. Make it like a compare instead. Compare club with sword "The weapons are too different to be compared.  Compare knife with longknife (Knife has a much shorter reach then longknife, knife is much more comfortable and is easier to stab with then longknife, Knife does not look like it'll deal as much damage as longknife) etc.  Make warriors cap it at 50%, and merchants at whatever max is. 

[Qzzrbl]

http://www.zalanthas.org/gdb/index.php/topic,33619.0.html

...To avoid a complete and total derail.

[jstorrie]

Because the points are too good to argue against, and you can't come up with anything because it's actually good idea.

Because I don't want to get into this argument for the fifteenth time. If you continue to be a dick about it, I'm going to have to call you out on being a dick, and then I'll get in shit for flaming. Please cut it out.

[Qzzrbl]

It would be nice if burglary were expounded upon.

It's always bugged me that all you need is a lockpick to get a door open.

No torsion wrenches?

No slim jims?

How does -everyone- have a lock made of wood? You'd think more people would trust just barring their door, and other options for locking.

And more options for locking would open up for an arsenal of tools to circumvent the security.

I see incompetent burglars messing up and breaking the lock to the point to where they can't be used anymore, alerting everyone to the presence of a break-in.

I see tools for removing the hinges or knobs of doors entirely, for the burglar who doesn't care.

It would also be neat to have the option to prop a chair up against a door, or barricading the door with heavy stuff, or trying to hold a door shut with your own weight.

Would be neat if it were possible to kick flimsy doors down, with critical fails (or particularly sturdy doors) injuring the kicker's foot and giving them more movement delay for a few days, that would also give a sound echo to a few room radius that would alert apartment/house guards.

[Cerelum]

It would be nice,

If using the way didn't interupt physical activity in any way.  Then I could be bullshitting with someone while attempting to craft or whatnot without having to wait however long to see if I succeed.

If I could make my mount attack the critter I'm attacking, I can think of at least two mounts which have ic reference to fighting, one right in it's description, yet they just sit there like lumps on a log.

JaRoD

[Synthesis]

11.  A MERCHANT WHO BUYS CONTAINER OBJECTS IN ALLANAK PROPER.  FOR THE LOVE OF TEK.

[FantasyWriter]

11.  A MERCHANT WHO BUYS CONTAINER OBJECTS IN ALLANAK PROPER.  FOR THE LOVE OF TEK.

AMEN!