RPTs: Gone Missing

[Gimfalisette]

I sense unrest in the playerbase. I sense boredom. I sense ennui. I sense there's just not enough going on, not enough happening, nothing jumping. I sense noobs aren't seeing the full wonder, and I sense vets are burnt out and waiting for other people to make things happen. I sense leaders are purposeless, minions are aimless, and indies see little reason to join clans.

I sense a severe lack of RPTs.

While tavern-sitting and hunting and crafting and trading are the day-to-day activities our PCs engage in, and which are somewhat fun, most of us need more in order to keep us truly engaged and excited about the game. We need the shot in the arm of RPTs. We need reasons to get together and do stuff.

So this is my plea to the playerbase: Get out there and make some RPTs. Draw your fellow-players in, involve them, make things happen. In Allanak, in Tuluk, in Luir's, in the Tablelands. Start planning stuff, communicating about stuff, and doing stuff. Do it for you and your group of buddies, do it for your clan, do it for your city, do it for the whole world.

Last year at this time we were in the midst of a lot of interesting RPTs. Stuff was happening and it was Fun. A lot of clans were involved in a lot of stuff. We could be doing that now, and we don't need to wait for imms to make us do it. In fact, it's not the imms' job TO make us do it. It's our job, and we're slacking.

Leaders, run RPTs. Minions, run RPTs and/or suggest them to your leaders. Indies, there's no reason you can't be running RPTs.

Who's with me? I know I've slacked. Are you ready to stop slacking too? I'm ready and willing to help anyone who wants to throw RPTs for the good of the playerbase figure out what to do and how to do it.

[Riev]

As I can really only take orders on my character, for now, I must say that I've had quite some fun in [city I am playing in]. There has been a lot going on, considering the amount of time I -do- end up idling for reasons almost beyond my control.

I've thrown out orders to merchant houses, thinking offering the Byn some money for training sessions, and a bunch of stuff, I just havn't gotten around to it. Heck, I keep trying to talk to [certain PC] about obtaining a gift for [certain leader PC] but things just keep coming up and I don't get the chance.

To the playerbase: I'M SORRY!

Addendum to the playerbase: DO MORE STUFF!

[a strange shadow]

em glances at the amount of non-stop action time she's been clocking in Armageddon lately.

>think *alarm* This is a "slow time"?!

Maybe it's all a matter of perspective. There are RPTs in the works...

I am liking this relative quiet a bit better than the OMG EPIC NONSTOP DRAMA of last year.

[Gimfalisette]

There are RPTs in the works... maybe not enough of them?

What I'm not seeing is:

-- Clan internal RPTs. Adventuring trips, just-for-fun times. Responsibility of clan leaders and minions to throw for clannies. May or may not be plot-related.

-- Inter-clan RPTs. Bigger adventuring things done between clans, usually in the pursuit of some kind of plot objective. Requires leadership coordination.

-- Public RPTs. Festivals, parties, auctions, bardic competitions, arena events. These should never be the bread-and-butter of RPTs, but compared to last year I'm seeing very few. One this past month and a rumor of one to come, but still it's very few, relatively speaking.

The Player Announcements forum is relatively dead in announcements for RPTs and/or follow-up postings of "omg awesome wow!" The city boards are dead. What I can see and hear by IC contacts is dead.

So, whether or not one player is experiencing a lot of activity...RPTs just aren't happening. Not comparatively speaking. All of the above RPT types can be handled by PC leadership and/or minions, and I would really like to see people doing more of it.

[Malken]

I killed a verrin hawk earlier.

[Riev]

New RPT: Verrin Hawks and Kylori make friends, and start a war against Malken.

[Salt Merchant]

I'll pipe up briefly to say that perhaps part of the problem is that adversity is being dealt with so efficiently these days. My last character got embroiled in conflict and was preparing to go on a (targeted) rampage for vengeance but was suddenly cut down despite two actions that -really- should have saved her.

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that Arm 2.0 has been opened to playtesting to a select group. It would explain the sudden dip in player levels, wouldn't it? Naturally, it would be the "cream" of the playerbase (those most likely to get things going) that would be invited.

[FantasyWriter]

There are RPTs in the works... maybe not enough of them?

What I'm not seeing is:

-- Clan internal RPTs. Adventuring trips, just-for-fun times. Responsibility of clan leaders and minions to throw for clannies. May or may not be plot-related.

-- Inter-clan RPTs. Bigger adventuring things done between clans, usually in the pursuit of some kind of plot objective. Requires leadership coordination.

-- Public RPTs. Festivals, parties, auctions, bardic competitions, arena events. These should never be the bread-and-butter of RPTs, but compared to last year I'm seeing very few. One this past month and a rumor of one to come, but still it's very few, relatively speaking.

The Player Announcements forum is relatively dead in announcements for RPTs and/or follow-up postings of "omg awesome wow!" The city boards are dead. What I can see and hear by IC contacts is dead.

So, whether or not one player is experiencing a lot of activity...RPTs just aren't happening. Not comparatively speaking. All of the above RPT types can be handled by PC leadership and/or minions, and I would really like to see people doing more of it.

Agreed, especially inter-clan RPTs.

[FantasyWriter]

To: Salt Merchant
RE: Avatars

The Pen is mightier than the Sword.

[manonfire]

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that Arm 2.0 has been opened to playtesting to a select group. It would explain the sudden dip in player levels, wouldn't it? Naturally, it would be the "cream" of the playerbase (those most likely to get things going) that would be invited.

I also hear aliens are performing telepathic brain surgery on us from their mothership.

[Salt Merchant]

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that Arm 2.0 has been opened to playtesting to a select group. It would explain the sudden dip in player levels, wouldn't it? Naturally, it would be the "cream" of the playerbase (those most likely to get things going) that would be invited.

I also hear aliens are performing telepathic brain surgery on us from their mothership.

Haha... I heard one of your parents -might- be human.

[Gimfalisette]

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that Arm 2.0 has been opened to playtesting to a select group. It would explain the sudden dip in player levels, wouldn't it? Naturally, it would be the "cream" of the playerbase (those most likely to get things going) that would be invited.

The sudden dip in player levels had to do with the beginning of the school year. It's the same thing that happens every school year. If you look at the numbers, you will see that they have begun to come back up in November...also as usual. Ditto numbers at peak time.

Posting "suspicions" like this really does nothing positive for the game and for player-imm trust and interaction.

Also, guys, could you please derail less? It's really not helpful. Just as a reminder, the topic here is RPTs, how we're not having enough of them, and what everyone can do to pitch in and solve it.

[Salt Merchant]

The sudden dip in player levels had to do with the beginning of the school year. It's the same thing that happens every school year. If you look at the numbers, you will see that they have begun to come back up in November...also as usual. Ditto numbers at peak time.

Odd, I remember summers as being the time of lower players before. Things would always pick up again in the fall when students left summertime distractions and returned to their ISP-provided universities.

But okay, bye again.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I have Faled at providing RPT times for my players.

I'm sorry.

Let me go post one now.

Thank you, Gimf, for your encouragement.

To contribute to the conversation, though, I would like to just make a few points.

Personally, I like activity on my RPTs. With the change in the environment over the past few years, and seeing less and less activity during patrols and so on and so forth, I admit to becoming a tad jaded, given how much I like getting to use the fighting code. But I can fix that. I have been batting around goals that do not include the OOC goal of 'let's get into a fight', as patrols really tend to amount to no more than just that, but also tend to be the easiest RPTs to have.

With Staff being involved in many more things than they used to be, and with them being organized in a completely different fashion nowadays, Staff-on-Clan time is just not as frequent as it used to be. Staff-assisted RPTs have always been interesting to me, and perhaps I have lain too much value on them. I'm sorry for that. There are a great many things that we can do without Staff. I plan to do my best to investigate ways to work on this.

[Gimfalisette]

<3 7DV

Personally, I like activity on my RPTs. With the change in the environment over the past few years, and seeing less and less activity during patrols and so on and so forth, I admit to becoming a tad jaded, given how much I like getting to use the fighting code. But I can fix that. I have been batting around goals that do not include the OOC goal of 'let's get into a fight', as patrols really tend to amount to no more than just that, but also tend to be the easiest RPTs to have.

With Staff being involved in many more things than they used to be, and with them being organized in a completely different fashion nowadays, Staff-on-Clan time is just not as frequent as it used to be. Staff-assisted RPTs have always been interesting to me, and perhaps I have lain too much value on them. I'm sorry for that. There are a great many things that we can do without Staff. I plan to do my best to investigate ways to work on this.

Adventuring trips are fun. (Especially when it's not a hugemongous group of players. Smallish is better for adventuring.) And staff-assisted RPTs are fun.

But you're entirely right, those types of RPTs don't even close to cover all the possibilities of RPTs. There's so much that can be done, and it's so (relatively) easy to do.

Thanks for your renewed efforts. I appreciate it and I'm sure your clannies will, too.

[Attana]

There are RPTs in the works... maybe not enough of them?

What I'm not seeing is:

-- Clan internal RPTs. Adventuring trips, just-for-fun times. Responsibility of clan leaders and minions to throw for clannies. May or may not be plot-related.

-- Inter-clan RPTs. Bigger adventuring things done between clans, usually in the pursuit of some kind of plot objective. Requires leadership coordination.

-- Public RPTs. Festivals, parties, auctions, bardic competitions, arena events. These should never be the bread-and-butter of RPTs, but compared to last year I'm seeing very few. One this past month and a rumor of one to come, but still it's very few, relatively speaking.

The Player Announcements forum is relatively dead in announcements for RPTs and/or follow-up postings of "omg awesome wow!" The city boards are dead. What I can see and hear by IC contacts is dead.

So, whether or not one player is experiencing a lot of activity...RPTs just aren't happening. Not comparatively speaking. All of the above RPT types can be handled by PC leadership and/or minions, and I would really like to see people doing more of it.

Maybe not where you're playing.  Don't assume the lack of RPT's in your area and clan is what is happening everywhere else.

I for one am and have been involved in many cool plots, not so much in the way of RPT's, but we don't need an RPT every day, or even once every month.   Places and clans have up and down times, perhaps where you're located it's that region of the game world's downtime.  IMHO, it used to be that when there -was- a lot of activity it was an RPT (recommended playing time).  The occassional RPT event should be just an added bonus, and not something that people depend on to happen.

Perhaps the reasons you're not seeing any "omg wow awesome" posts, is because people are using the request tool like they're supposed to for that.

What could -we- do to solve the lack of RPT -events-? 
-Host shit.
-Imagine some report of some dangerous new threat, and take a group of hunters and friends out to investigate.
-Collaborate with a friend ICly about hosting a party or festival for whatever and post about it.
-Have a bunch of little RPT's all the time, and make specific times a RPT. 
To leaders in clans: 
-Post on your GDB board about running a patrol around a set time every night no matter what time and how many people show up (This applies for training). 
-Follow through with such posts.
-While in the middle of training, create a situation at the compound using VNPC's, send your underlings out to trap the said VNPC in the situation.
-Have and exploring expedition.
-Have a supply run. 
-Change up the training schedule as much as possible.
-Have a clan meeting with all the soldiers present.
-Discuss possible changes to the training schedule.
-Discuss inventing a new fighting technique to practice during training.
-Lead classes on teaching riding to the inexperienced of the clan.

There's a number of things even the average Joe character could do to bring back more interest in certain playing areas with a little imagination... and I think I'm spent on the subject for now.

[Ghost]

I killed a verrin hawk earlier.

oh man so much fun

[LauraMars]

I HAVEN'T LOGGED IN SINCE AUGUST

[bardbard#4]

i applied for a noble.

i was going to run quests.

haven't heard back yet.

[brytta.leofa]

I HAVEN'T LOGGED IN SINCE AUGUST

And here I was wondering why the crimecode change had so little impact.

[Malken]

I HAVEN'T LOGGED IN SINCE AUGUST

When I'm not playing Arm, I really miss it, but when I start playing it, I really don't know why I'm playing it.

So I go kill a verrin hawk, ruin some silks, then log out.

BTW, your avatar is not dancing like mine!!

[tortall]

One has been posted.

I have been told more are to come from that same person.

[Fathi]

The only RPTs I've seen lately have been parties and they've all been insufferable every time I've tried to attend one.

Not because they're boring, but it's really hard to enjoy an RPT when you've got 20 people all crammed into one room all talking and emoting at the same time. I can't stand them because of the nonstop spam.

I dunno about how others feel, but it makes me want to attend certain types of RPT a lot less and stay for much shorter intervals of time.

[Zoltan]

Not because they're boring, but it's really hard to enjoy an RPT when you've got 20 people all crammed into one room all talking and emoting at the same time. I can't stand them because of the nonstop spam.

The spam drives me nuts, too. When I play around a ton of other PCs, I tend to just clam up at my keyboard because so many things are happening so fast. Granted, I've been part of some really kick-ass RPTs that had a shit ton of players, but still... it's something I can only handle once in a great while.

With all of my characters, I've always been most fond of the little 3-5 PC adventurin' "RPTs".

[Attana]

The only RPTs I've seen lately have been parties and they've all been insufferable every time I've tried to attend one.

Not because they're boring, but it's really hard to enjoy an RPT when you've got 20 people all crammed into one room all talking and emoting at the same time. I can't stand them because of the nonstop spam.

I dunno about how others feel, but it makes me want to attend certain types of RPT a lot less and stay for much shorter intervals of time.

Seconded.

I usually end up idling during these RPT's and changing my ldesc to something like:

The Woman is here, looking absolutely bored.

And cue up my RP to match it.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I didn't greet your little girl with open arms. I was quite annoyed by your hugging on that breed, and I was verbal about it.

I know you're not trying to, maybe, but try not to lump us all together. Some of us try. Aside from that caveat, you have a point. I am sad that the game has slowed down so much. There is a real reason why.

Staff have slowed things down. There are a great many plots that are in limbo right now as they wait upon advancement by staff. Yes, I know perfectly well that all plots do not require staff help, but many do, and when we don't get that sort of help without long delays, it hurts some. Yes, we can work around it, but plots that are in limbo contribute to the feel of stagnation.

The slow-down of staff plots have made players feel less interested in starting non-staff plots, because many plots that begin as non-staff supported plots end up becoming staff-supported plots by necessity, and if there are plots already in limbo, then what hope have we for the endgames of our baby plots?

You have some good points when it comes to inter-state conflict. However, people need to be sensible about what happens when you do things the silk-clad don't want you to. You get in trouble, if you get caught. Be slick, or don't whine. Get a like minded silky on board with you, or be slick, or be sly, but don't be surprised when the silk-clad come fuck with you.

Leaders that literally are doing nothing and don't log on and are never available do need to step aside. I won't deny that.

I wish some people would stop bitching about leaders wanting cool shit. That's annoying. I understand your point, of course, but I get sick of spending all my coin paying people to do shit and then looking at them because they got cool shit off the money I gave them, and I can't have that cool shit because I paid for them to get a clue and have fun. So, I'm contributing to the world, having people do this and that and the other thing, and I get nothing out of it. No. Not cool. When I say I want something cool, you know what that actually does? It makes a mini plot. It gives PCs something to go get, something to make, something to fill their idle time. If you don't want to do that, then why suggest that I use my coin to give people something to do? Maybe the Bynners don't want to go out on a patrol. Maybe that hunter doesn't want to troll in the other city's taverns listening for this name connected to that word. Do you understand what I am saying?

I'll agree about killing, but you are saying there are too many long-lived people, and then saying not to kill people. People need to die sometimes. Don't do it without RP, and don't do it arbitrarily, but sometimes, folks need to die. That's not killing off the PB, that's killing a PC who's player should go make another character.

I can agree with you on the rest of your points.

[Bebop]

I didn't greet your little girl with open arms. I was quite annoyed by your hugging on that breed, and I was verbal about it.

If this is directed at me I have no idea what you're talking about, just so you know.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I didn't greet your little girl with open arms. I was quite annoyed by your hugging on that breed, and I was verbal about it.

If this is directed at me I have no idea what you're talking about, just so you know.

Err ... it was sort of a generalized response to what you said, regarding your character's (real or not) experience, in general. It wasn't aimed at you or any other PC.

[Bogre]

HRPT.

Seriously. Wipe the slate clean, make some shit crazeee.

[Archbaron]

HRPT.

Seriously. Wipe the slate clean, make some shit crazeee.

No, really.

[Malken]

HRPT.

Seriously. Wipe the slate clean, make some shit crazeee.

No, really.

I want explosions and catapults and magicks all over and fireballs and legions of half giants attacking my lone character and hundreds of corpses all over the streets and awesome echoes of doom and people pissing their cotton pants
and templars yelling orders that nobody wants to follow and total chaos and anarchy and wars and pillage and the north hating the south and people getting hanged just for speaking with the wrong accent in the wrong place
and guerilla warfare with hidden camps in the middle of nowhere and like, pew pew and pow pow and kaboom and aaaaaaaaaaaaaah i'm dying man, get them off me, get them of!!!!11

[Archbaron]

HRPT.

Seriously. Wipe the slate clean, make some shit crazeee.

No, really.

I want explosions and catapults and magicks all over and fireballs and legions of half giants attacking my lone character and hundreds of corpses all over the streets and awesome echoes of doom and people pissing their cotton pants
and templars yelling orders that nobody wants to follow and total chaos and anarchy and wars and pillage and the north hating the south and people getting hanged just for speaking with the wrong accent in the wrong place
and guerilla warfare with hidden camps in the middle of nowhere and like, pew pew and pow pow and kaboom and aaaaaaaaaaaaaah i'm dying man, get them off me, get them of!!!!11

Yeah! And the d-elves with their machine guns! tew tew tew! kahkahkahkahkah! man it would be bloody so bloody. so awesome tho.

[Zoan]

Zalanthas should suddenly go crazy in one single evening, like that crazy movie Southland Tales.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

...or we, staff and players, could move plots along and accomplish the same thing.

[Reiloth]

Blaming leaders for the problems you see does nothing to solve the problem.

Having played leadership roles, and having -stepped down- because I couldn't devote enough time to the role...

It's a bit disheartening to see such biased assault on 'leadership role pc's' in general.

MY PROBLEMS WITH THE GAME:

1) Leaders

2) Leaders

3) Leaders

I could just as well make a blanket statement and say "You minion PC's need to get your fucking act together, twinks. Stop asking leaders for coin to do meaningless shit, and start making your own plots. Twinks."

I think:

-An HRPT is a long time coming
-Wiping the slate clean would make for some good, ass-lickin' fun.
-Bitching about the state of the game being any specific people's fault, whether that be Staff, Minions, Independents, Desert Elves, Magickers, or Leaders, is pointless. This problem belongs to all of us.
-You want some RPT's? Make'm. This game revolves around Imagination. Exercise it, if you are bored and desiring more group activity. Shit, get staff involved, or don't.

EDIT:

I'll make an effort to create an HRPT within the next few months. Assholes. As should every single one of you, instead of complaining about the lack of RPT's.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

"You minion PC's need to get your fucking act together, twinks. Stop asking leaders for coin to do meaningless shit, and start making your own plots. Twinks."

Dibs on quoting rights.

[Reiloth]

"You minion PC's need to get your fucking act together, twinks. Stop asking leaders for coin to do meaningless shit, and start making your own plots. Twinks."

Dibs on quoting rights.

Dibs noted.

[Niamh]

It's important to remember that just because you don't see things happening it doesn't mean nothing is going on.

Also, it's important to keep in mind that it doesn't necessarily take leader PCs to make things happen.  Anybody can make things happen, from templar to rinthi.  If you've got ideas for things to do and you aren't a leader, bring ideas to your leaders.  If your leaders aren't taking charge, maybe it's time you prove that you can be some sort of leader yourself.  If you're not in a clan and you've got ideas, act on them.  Just be prepared to accept any repercussions of your actions.

[staggerlee]

Blaming leaders for the problems you see does nothing to solve the problem.

Having played leadership roles, and having -stepped down- because I couldn't devote enough time to the role...

It's a bit disheartening to see such biased assault on 'leadership role pc's' in general.

MY PROBLEMS WITH THE GAME:

1) Leaders

2) Leaders

3) Leaders

I could just as well make a blanket statement and say "You minion PC's need to get your fucking act together, twinks. Stop asking leaders for coin to do meaningless shit, and start making your own plots. Twinks."

I think:

-An HRPT is a long time coming
-Wiping the slate clean would make for some good, ass-lickin' fun.
-Bitching about the state of the game being any specific people's fault, whether that be Staff, Minions, Independents, Desert Elves, Magickers, or Leaders, is pointless. This problem belongs to all of us.
-You want some RPT's? Make'm. This game revolves around Imagination. Exercise it, if you are bored and desiring more group activity. Shit, get staff involved, or don't.

EDIT:

I'll make an effort to create an HRPT within the next few months. Assholes. As should every single one of you, instead of complaining about the lack of RPT's.

I'd like to point out that playing like a leader does not necessarily mean being a sergeant or a templar.  When clans are running at their best the minions are taking as active a hand as everyone else  - involving others in their activities, being assertive and active, having ambitions, etc etc

All of those these things that it has been suggested that "leaders" should do, can and should be done by every player on the mud.  It's not about your character's job, it's about the impact you as a player have on the mud.

[Furious George]

Leadership though is as much an OOC construct as it is an IC one.  There are some players who are simply incapable of playing a coordinating, scheming, plotting, leading character...try as they might, not naming names...

Coded leadership on one of these players can be as useless and clan damaging as if they simply never logged in.

However, proactive "Recruit Stan" who is constantly running around, making the game vivid for himself is the guy who people will want to hang out with, even if "Agent Cartman" is only obsessed with touching himself and throwing look-at-me events.

With that said, I think it all comes down to personal accountability.  Don't wait on imms or clanleaders to make things fun for you, make the fun yourself.  If you're in a position to spread the wealth, by all means do it, with gusto...if you're not in a position to spread the wealth, then make it your mission to give someone you run into a 5-20 minute personal RPT...if everyone were to vow to "PAY IT FORWARD" *gack* and commit to giving one fellow player a personal roleplay event each login, then I think the larger scale, staff driven RPTS wouldn't be quite so missing.

Only my opinion, waiting to gorge itself on erdlu, stuffing and mashed tubors.

[number13]

It's important to remember that just because you don't see things happening it doesn't mean nothing is going on.

I've had an adequate amount of fun over the last couple months, so this isn't me whining. Finding trouble to get into hasn't been a problem. Still, I have to say, if no one aside from the privileged can see anything going on, then functionally nothing is going on from the perspective of the majority.

[staggerlee]

It's important to remember that just because you don't see things happening it doesn't mean nothing is going on.

I've had an adequate amount of fun over the last couple months, so this isn't me whining. Finding trouble to get into hasn't been a problem. Still, I have to say, if no one aside from the privileged can see anything going on, then functionally nothing is going on from the perspective of the majority.

Conversely, those that can't entertain themselves should not expect to be entertained by others, and the GDB has a way of fabricating problems where there are none, or blowing existing problems out of proportion.

I'm not saying that's happening.  But that in the spirit of the first post, we need to stop pointing fingers and demanding rpts, and go stir shit up ourselves.

[Lizzie]

I think everyone has responsibility, not just leaders, and I kind of resent that assertion that it's the leader's JOB...or that it's the leader's fault. Some leaders - yeah. But also remember, some leaders are -thrust- into their position by default. Their boss gets killed, and they're the only one with seniority. BOOM - slap a patch on your shoulder and call you leader, for good or for bad. I've played roles like that, where I got a promotion I didn't want but figured since *someone* had to do it, I'd give it a try. It didn't work out so great. But fuck you if you think you're gonna put the "blame" on me for not doing my "job." My job was to play my character. I did exactly that.

[staggerlee]

I think everyone has responsibility, not just leaders, and I kind of resent that assertion that it's the leader's JOB...or that it's the leader's fault. Some leaders - yeah. But also remember, some leaders are -thrust- into their position by default. Their boss gets killed, and they're the only one with seniority. BOOM - slap a patch on your shoulder and call you leader, for good or for bad. I've played roles like that, where I got a promotion I didn't want but figured since *someone* had to do it, I'd give it a try. It didn't work out so great. But fuck you if you think you're gonna put the "blame" on me for not doing my "job." My job was to play my character. I did exactly that.

Er, well, no.  When you take on a leadership role, for whatever the reasons, you're being placed in a position of ooc responsibility and trust.  You're responsible for the clan and players under you.

I'm all for spreading the responsibility to other players... but this attitude is appalling. For gods sake don't play the character if you can't handle the role, you're not doing anyone any good by being negligent because you didn't want the job in the first place.

Sure the number one responsibility of a player is to stay in character, but we always have various levels of ooc responsibility to deal with - following rules, keeping the experience of others in mind, and so on.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't get why y'all are carping at each other. The point of my post--go back and read it again if you need to--is that we, as players, have been slacking on creating fun for the playerbase, and we need to get off our asses and change it. All of us. Leaders, minions, and indies alike. All of us.

Sheesh guys.

[Tisiphone]

We need some huge desert-wide HRPT. Hmmmmmm.

[Lizzie]

Because this is a discussion board Gimf. See, you posted something. Some people agreed, Some disagreed. Some had their own spin on the situation. Some people agreed with -those- people, and some disagreed. Some put blame on a certain group for the reason why you felt the need to post in the first place. Some disagreed with that. That's just how discussions go, on discussion boards, Gimf.

If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you. PEOPLE need to start RPTs...and PEOPLE need to stop whining about whose fault it is that RPTs aren't happening.

As for Niamh, no. I disagree. Yes, there -are- things happening all the time. But if they're not noteworthy, or if they are SO secret that only the privileged few get to even know it's happening, then the perception of things is exactly the same - that nothing is happening.

If a lot of people are perceiving that nothing is happening, then it doesn't matter if something is, or isn't. What matters is the perception. Now, you can try to change that perception - or you can prove it wrong, or you can confirm that it's true. But telling people that their perception is wrong, isn't productive, and it just makes people more frustrated - because now not only are they wrong, but they're not entitled to the "inside info" that proves it.

[number13]

The point of my post--go back and read it again if you need to--is that we, as players, have been slacking on creating fun for the playerbase, and we need to get off our asses and change it. All of us. Leaders, minions, and indies alike. All of us.

I'm all for making my own fun and hopefully helping to stir the plot.

But it would be easier to make my own fun if there was conflict for which one could slip into the role of a footsolider for one side or the other without much fuss.  The Tuluk Rebellion, for example.  

[Taven]

I have to say that RPTs can be cool, but alot of the time they're way, way too spammy for my tastes. Party RPTs always seem problematic to me, because (as a number of others have mentioned) there's so much emoting and talking SPAM that you can't see what's going on. It's nearly impossible to work with. Fighting RPTs can get to be very much the same way, if they last too long and are all just repetitive hack-and-slash. That being said, fighting RPTs with some breathing space can be incredibly awesome.

As to starting RPTs, I ususally feel like I need to get an idea of whatever the clan I'm in is like and how it works before I can stir things up. I'd advise using vNPCs to further interaction; my characters have had a number of goals that involved vNPCs and got PCs around them involved in things as well. They aren't HUGE RPTs, but they're little things that can help things move along. Also, having a clan game day/night every few weeks is awesome, too. Kruth, Tek's Tower, whatever. Just go to your nearest tavern, hijack a table, and show all those other sorry little idlers how awesome your clan is. SHOW THAT FRUIT SOME LOVE. Tulukis, find a location for some public singing or dancing. NPCs do it all the time, don't you go telling me it isn't subtle enough.

Ahem. I, too, resolve to try to start interesting RPT-like events. Really. I do.

[Salt Merchant]

Since no one else is stepping up to state the obvious:

1. Leaders have resources that the rank and file don't.
Stipends, storeroom goods, NPCs, wagons, etc.

2. Leaders are allowed more latitude than the rank and file.
No "you can't leave the city and must be doing x chores at y time". A lot of rank and file characters are basically confined to very small portion of the gameworld save for when a leader is around.

3. Leaders are often picked from among the most skilled or powerful characters.
These characters are the ones most capable of going out and doing things.

When someone steps into such a role and does little with it, it -does- hurt the potential of the game, compared to a lazy-ass follower doing the same.

Rank and file can launch their own plots but this largely involves misbehaving in some way because there is little else they can do, given all the restrictions placed on them and their lack of personal power, influence and funds. And the game's organizations are largely intolerant of misbehavior, so such plots tend to be short-lived.

[Taven]

Since no one else is stepping up to state the obvious:

Stuff

Even if you're rank-and-file you can still come up with an IDEA for an RPT. You can be active too. If you have an idea for an RPT, and discuss it ICly with your leader and it gets shot down, that's a whole different ball game. I think the point that the leader playing PCs are trying to make is that not EVERYTHING should be pinned on them. You can do things too.

To me, it really sounds like better communication between the leaders and the grunts is needed. Grunts, try for more! If the leader PC says "no," then at least your tried and were proactive. Leader PCs, try figuring out what your minions would like to see more of. Give them the option to arrange their own things and then get approval from you.

Also, advice is very easy to give. It's harder to actually DO. So, yes, I do get that too.

[staggerlee]

Since no one else is stepping up to state the obvious:

Stuff

Even if you're rank-and-file you can still come up with an IDEA for an RPT. You can be active too. If you have an idea for an RPT, and discuss it ICly with your leader and it gets shot down, that's a whole different ball game. I think the point that the leader playing PCs are trying to make is that not EVERYTHING should be pinned on them. You can do things too.

To me, it really sounds like better communication between the leaders and the grunts is needed. Grunts, try for more! If the leader PC says "no," then at least your tried and were proactive. Leader PCs, try figuring out what your minions would like to see more of. Give them the option to arrange their own things and then get approval from you.

Also, advice is very easy to give. It's harder to actually DO. So, yes, I do get that too.

Initiative, goals, networking, assertiveness, creativity and communication are important for everybody, in all walks of life.     Sure people who show those tend to get shunted into positions of authority, but there isn't an authority figure in the game who doesn't want to see those in their minions.

[a strange shadow]

One of the reasons I stringently avoid being shoved into true leadership positions (at least for now) is because of the ungrateful, demanding experience I get from the vast majority of underling PCs. I feel plenty entitled to need a break from leadership, since I held down a very active, very involved leadership position for a little over an RL year. It is hard work. Work. In a game.

No thanks. I already have 2 jobs - I don't need a third 8-hour job in what's supposed to be my downtime.

That doesn't preclude stirring things up, getting involved in plots, and involving others, though. That anyone can do.

I guess where I'm going with this is that "leader" PCs should not share the sole burden of creating and maintaining plots and events in the game. Especially since their "job" is already so demanding on an OOC level - and every time they do something, they're scrutinized, for better or worse. I can't tell you how many times I've had to shank some poor PC, felt bad about it OOC, but known that it was perfectly justified IC - and had to deal with ranting and raging and accusations of abusing my POWAH.

Gimme a fucking break. Actually, give "leader" PCs a break. They work hard for your enjoyment, and they are characters, too... and people behind the screen, who want to play the game, and have fun, while respecting the responsibility of their position.

[Salt Merchant]

Even if you're rank-and-file you can still come up with an IDEA for an RPT. You can be active too.

Perhaps you could offer some advice on how to think up an idea that will actually attract some interest, because I've had little success at that.

For example: in two separate organizations, I've had a character put forward the idea of collecting stones and rocks of various colors to be used to create (with a stonecrafter's help if necessary) a mosaic commemorating that organization's part in the gith war in Allanak.

There are a number of benefits to this:

- gives the group a common activity to pursue (gathering rocks in this case)
- gives a stoneworker an activity and a commission as well
- adds to the character of the group's location
- a historical marker that can be viewed by visitors and later members of the organization

Necessary staff involvement: really minimal (adding a line of text to a room's description, a key word and a little description for the mosaic if looked at specifically).

There was no interest. None. In one case, my character got laughed at.

What am I missing here?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

What am I missing here?

Wrong clan? I woulda jumped on that.

[staggerlee]

What am I missing here?

Don't take this the wrong way but possibilities include: Tenacity, flexibility, charisma, or the ability to suit your plans to the objectives of your clan, its leadership and the social environment.

On the surface it sounds like a pretty good goal to me though.  Specific circumstances muddy the waters unfortunately.

[Riev]

I tend to see things as Salt Merchant does. I am all for spreading my wealth around, not that I ever have that much. I am willing to pay for lessons from the Byn, or asking if a Merchant House Hunting party wouldn't mine some company, anything out of the ordinary. But, I'm not in a leader position, and don't hold a lot of sway.

I'm of the opinion that PCs in leadership positions don't -often- get things started because nobody wants to die, OOCly. If you're a Sergeant, and you blatantly misbehave and take out your runners or recruits somewhere dangerous as an outing, you could get them killed. If you do, tying into the Capital Punishment thread, these leaders probably believe they are just going to be outright killed for doing something stupid.

I also think the terminology here is incorrect. RPTs are just a recommended play time for a few people in a certain clan or social gathering to get together and get some good RP and character development going. I think everyone is calling for an HRPT. Some kind of gith attack, or halfling uprising, or a sentient kryl that suddenly gains the ability to speak to the dead (If this happens, I want credit, because thats -awesome-). RPTs happen all the time, from a patrol with your unit, to a noble and his/her patrons getting together to talk. If you don't see this happening, go to the bar, buy someone a drink, and start asking questions. Buy me a drink, in game, and chances are I'll remember you if you talk to me. I might even care whether you live or die

[Fathi]

What am I missing here?

Wrong clan.

If you're talking about the clan I assume you're talking about, Salt Merchant, is it really that surprising that asking them to do even more foraging than they already do was an idea that got a lukewarm reception?

Also I'd point out that I can't think of many members (if any) of that clan who are still alive now that actually fought in the war with the gith. That might have something to do with it.

[Gimfalisette]

I also think the terminology here is incorrect. RPTs are just a recommended play time for a few people in a certain clan or social gathering to get together and get some good RP and character development going. I think everyone is calling for an HRPT.

No. I am not calling for an HRPT. Absolutely not. If the staff wants to do stuff that leads up to one, cool; but HRPTs depend far too much on staff involvement for them to be the "solution" to malaise amongst the playerbase.

The players can solve it without staff. There are lots of RPTs players can run completely on our own.

[Salt Merchant]

If you're talking about the clan I assume you're talking about, Salt Merchant, is it really that surprising that asking them to do even more foraging than they already do was an idea that got a lukewarm reception?

Also I'd point out that I can't think of many members (if any) of that clan who are still alive now that actually fought in the war with the gith. That might have something to do with it.

This is what I'm used to. The first reaction is a search for reasons not to do something.

That particular clan (I was talking about two) turned up tons of rock in a certain location as a matter of normal routine. It just would have needed to pick up that rock, keep some of it, and trade some for other sorts. The other doesn't forage much at all so far as I'm aware.

It doesn't matter if few living PCs were a part of the war. Most PCs from the city nowadays were alive (as pre-PCs) then even if they didn't participate and should recall it as a time of terror. And the high-ranking NPCs certainly would have been a part of it and remember it keenly. It could easily hve been played as having endorsement from above.

But these reasons are all just window-dressing. They're just symptoms of the underlying problem: no one wants to.

So what sort of ideas do motivate people?

[Fathi]

If you're talking about the clan I assume you're talking about, Salt Merchant, is it really that surprising that asking them to do even more foraging than they already do was an idea that got a lukewarm reception?

Also I'd point out that I can't think of many members (if any) of that clan who are still alive now that actually fought in the war with the gith. That might have something to do with it.

It doesn't matter if few living PCs were a part of the war. Most PCs from the city nowadays were alive then even if they didn't participate.

The point I was trying to make about not being in contact with PCs that participated is that even though characters alive now would have been alive then virtually, you have to remember that in order to catch the PC's interest, the player also has to be interested.

If somebody had a Tor noble or a militia soldier or a gemmer that had been alive during that time period and was still around, I'm willing to bet money that they'd be a lot more interested as a player in the project than somebody who only experienced the event tangentially or didn't experience it at all, as a player

[Taven]

RPTs, HRPTs, I think what this is all about is having fun in a way that involves other players or clans with some steady, dependable fun events taking place and happening. I agree 100% that it is NOT solely the leader's job to do this. You can think of your own fun and crazy ideas to try and go for. If you don't succeed, then you can say you tried. Here's a few ideas that can lighten up any scene.

Game Night

Set up a game night for your clan. I mentioned this already.

Having a clan game day/night every few weeks is awesome, too. Kruth, Tek's Tower, whatever. Just go to your nearest tavern, hijack a table, and show all those other sorry little idlers how awesome your clan is.

Furthermore, there are things and ideas to do WITHIN that that can be a game night, or any time.

Inpromptu Song Contest

Tulukis, find a location for some public singing or dancing. NPCs do it all the time, don't you go telling me it isn't subtle enough.

Also, singing and dancing is not just for Tuluki. Making up silly songs on the spot in the group and forcing each other to sing them publicly could be TONS of fun. Dance with someone at the Gaj. Aspire to find a Nakki bard to come and teach you songs, or some tribal to teach you exotic dances. Let other people know of your plans, set up a time.

Impersonation of other city contest/activity

We do silly things like this making fun of the various cities respectively all the time. Starting this up at a dull day in the Gaj (or Sanc? Tooth?) would provide a break from the long boring periods. It's also easy to combine with any of the above ides.

Have clan gossip sessions

You think I'm kidding. I'm not. Players often loose interest in clans because they don't SEE anything going on. Tell them just about what they missed, make them want to play more! Make it so Amos down the bar wants a piece of the action, too.

Alternately, have just-clan meetings. Talk about policies, about information you know that they should too. Talk about weather or not that new Salarri IS actually crazy, or if so-and-so has a crush on that half-elf.

Tell stories of ages long gone

That's right. You, crazy Fale, you know we commoners can't read. Impress us with your tales from ages past of great Fale parties. Tor, tell your Silvers some war tales so it will tirckle down back to the common folk. You, there, old grizzled Bynner! Tell us of days gone by when you had to walk up hill both ways in a sandstorm and fight off defilers. Tuluki, same goes for you. Remember when those 'Nakki invaded? We may be at peace now, but back in my day...

Play "bother the elf" (Or Forgiener, as the case maybe)

Seriously, people. These are ELVES. They aren't PEOPLE. They aren't HUMAN. You Tuluki made subtle snide remarks. 'Nakkis, start a fight! Throw some insults. And beer mugs. Be more creative then the bar-fight echos. Also, power in numbers. Have a large support group to back you up. Elves seem, to me, to mostly get ignored. Breeds, too. SNEER MORE, PEOPLE. Interact.

See just how far you can insult that breed before they loose it and tackle you.


Learning and Teaching

I'm not kidding. Getting taught things is great. Set a clan day (approve it with your leaders, or on the fly) to teach about whatever you can do. Geography, what ARE those cures for anyways, tricks elves might do, wrestling... Don't make it all about the CODE make it about interaction. I have had stellar times where the routine "training" was broken up by some absolutely incredible lessons on these things. I've given some lessons myself.

Alternately, start a teaching group for your spare time. Maybe you always wanted to learn about Geography, and have traveled in your time. Make a group, trade stories and tales. Healer? It's not all about TABLETS. Rumors of cures, charms, and special "remidies" that may or may not have coded value are perfectly good. In the movie Gladiator, they use maggots to eat away the diseased flesh. How come I've never heard even a whisper of someone using that technique ICly? Also, slapping a bandage on something isn't always good. Tell gruesome stories about infection, and talk about how to clean a wound or set a break properly.

Learn about some forgien culture. Ask that Tuluki about why they have those tattoos... Then mock them for it. Is it true that Gith can actually TALK? Go ask that tribal over there. Learn a language. Insult people in that language while claiming it's praise (use with caution, and beware negitive side effects). Learn tribal slang or phrases.


Worship your City's King

Yes, that's right. Remember dear old Tektolnes who decides if you LIVE OR DIE? Those people infront of the Dragon aren't kneeling there because it makes them feel good. What about the Sun King? What have you done to show appreciation for HIS Glorious Light, lately? Make a cult. Inspire worship. Make up your own odd rules and beliefs that you spread to others. Do your odd ideas publicly.

It doesn't have to be traditional worship. Dance to Tektolnes, or kill a halfling for the Sunking. Be creative. Look at RL and how many religious variants there are.

Not in a big city? What do you worship? What's a new way you can worship this?


Host An Event

That's right. Even you, Commoner Amos, can Host an Event. Don't have enough food and wine for everybody? Make it a potluck. Don't have the money for l33t prizes? Talk to your local GMH member and discuss making a raffel for an item. How many Maliks would toss fifty 'sid into the pot for a chance at that awesome sword? Or that insanely cool outfit? If they don't go for it, collect the pot first and then get the item.


Organize Co-Clan Games/activities

Ever get to be in a spot where whatever clan you're in seems devoid of all people, but the other similar clan is hopping? Coordinate with your leader and theres, set up some friendly cross-clan games. Archery contest? Well, our Malik is better then your lame-ass Amos, and thal games. Yes, everybody who enters WILL pay this fee to get in, and if the Templar was motivated, they could charge the viewers to watch, too. It's a fun thing for multipul clans, AND it gets whatever Templar 'sid. Who doesn't like that?

Even if it doesn't work, showing interest and ideas is a good start. Just remember, everyone likes money and if there's other people participating then it doesn't have to be all yours. Convince your leader that while YOU might not have any archery ranges, THIS clan might, and wouldn't it be good to practice?

I'm sure there's non-combat oriented ways to do this too, but usually a clan has at least one combat aspect to it.


Explore

Oh, woe is YOU. You're stuck inside your city, how can "go exploring" POISSIBLY apply to you without getting your PC in trouble? Actually take a moment to look at your city-state with a fresh eye. Those room descriptions? Read them again, sometimes you'll be suprised. For example, just who ARE those templar statues of? What sorts of carvings are in the Gaj-- Are they lewd? If there aren't any lewd ones, why not? Shouldn't you make one?

Alternately, exploring doesn't have to be physical. "Explore" your PC's past. What are their vNPC realitives upto? Is it something that can make for an interesting plot in PC-land?


Summing It All Up

I think more challanging then a leader not wanting to get all the work, or a minion struggling to creat a RPT/event despite their lack of power is when you just don't HAVE minions/underlings, or a leader. There's a lot of things you COULD do, if there were more people around. I think that's one of the reasons that things never actually happen. Trying to plan more cross-clan events would help solve this, I think. The trouble with that, of course, is that with more people to get "okays" from, then longer everything takes. But it doesn't have to be a BIG thing, it can start small and go from there. It's so easy to get discouraged or bored, it's HARD to plan things and involve others. Keeping at it is an important thing to do. I'd also say that it's easier if you've been in your clan awhile, and have a feel for how things work. It's hard to make things new or exciting if you don't have a good grasp of what "normal" is.

Perhaps you could offer some advice on how to think up an idea that will actually attract some interest, because I've had little success at that.

For example: in two separate organizations, I've had a character put forward the idea of collecting stones and rocks of various colors to be used to create (with a stonecrafter's help if necessary) a mosaic commemorating that organization's part in the gith war in Allanak.

There are a number of benefits to this:

- gives the group a common activity to pursue (gathering rocks in this case)
- gives a stoneworker an activity and a commission as well
- adds to the character of the group's location
- a historical marker that can be viewed by visitors and later members of the organization

Necessary staff involvement: really minimal (adding a line of text to a room's description, a key word and a little description for the mosaic if looked at specifically).

There was no interest. None. In one case, my character got laughed at.

What am I missing here?

I think what may have gone wrong here is that it could, to some people, sound like another chore. A PC or Player might see it as just another chore they have to do, rather then a fun thing. I'd personally say RPTs with a more social/interactive aspect are good. Talking, swaping tales, etc. However, I would say that you took the right steps to try and make something happen. If they think it's a bad idea, I'd challange THEM to find an activity to do. "Well, how would YOU make a memorial to the Gith War?" Don't let them put an idea down and just waltz off, make them think of interesting things too. Maybe they have an idea that they think is more interesting. If they don't, maybe they'll think of one. Keep at it.

I'm of the opinion that PCs in leadership positions don't -often- get things started because nobody wants to die, OOCly. If you're a Sergeant, and you blatantly misbehave and take out your runners or recruits somewhere dangerous as an outing, you could get them killed. If you do, tying into the Capital Punishment thread, these leaders probably believe they are just going to be outright killed for doing something stupid.

I think that oftentimes boredom leads PC leaders to do stupid things. Don't GO into that area with a bunch of green runners if you know it's dangerous. Wait until you have the proper support for whatever you're planning. I can't count how many times boredom has led to poor or no planning, and PC deaths. I think that there's lots of wonderful possibilities that are less dangerous that could be done, but get overlooked.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Excellent post, Taven.

It's archive worthy.

[Janna]

7DV and a few others could probably back me up on this. I've had about 200 RPT's I've come up with, especially with one particular clan. Now the key there is "Come up with" not "execute". Out of all of those RPT idea's I think 4 or 5 of them REALLY paid off. A pay-off to me is 60% or higher of the PCs involved having a blast, lots of different clans/people involved, blood guts and more blood. Why did the other one's fail? Staff restrictions, preset rules, inactive PB, lack of interest, inability to find a "suitable" time for the masses or it would screw up the predetermined "Unveiling" of certain things that weren't ready to be put in full motion in regards to the bigger plots.

Now, while I agree that RPT's can and should be done and often, I venture to guess that most mundane, non-leader PCs are a little tired of never finding leaders (I recently stepped down as one as to not subject people to this, so I was part of the problem too) to get anything really started and the leaders (those of which actually log in for more then 5 minutes a week) are tired of having their RPT's not come about because of IC/OOC restrictions, preset rules etc...and some of the staff are likely tired of trying to get things started only to have mundanes/leaders die, not log on, or never be satisified with what is actually done.

I really think the entire gameworld is stagnant right now. I think a good heaping portion of the playerbase is left in limbo because the end game plots were brought in and then utterly stalled because the new game is eons away, there's no sense of large scale tension or conflict because of IC events, and most are just burned out with trying and having any of the things I mentioned above happen again.

I'm afraid I can't except the reasoning or excuse that "Things ARE happening that you just don't know about/behind the scenes." Well, that's fantastic. Staff knows that and the 3 to 10 PCs that happen to be "In the know" are likely thrilled, but the other 50 to 60 players that are on at peak have a perception that absolutely nothing is happening, get fed up and idle or log out. This was one major reason why my playtimes dropped off drastically two months ago, which lead to me picking up a second job and quitting all together for a month (Didn't even get around to posting the thread about it until 3 weeks after)

I needed the break whether I wanted to admit it to myself or not. Now I'm back, I'm full of ideas and I want to make things happen like Gimf is talking about all over again regardless of being in a leader role or not. Hopefully those that have thought the same as me as I wrote above can take a small step back, take a deep breath and dive back in again. The fun in the game and for all the players in it fall on -everyone's- shoulders, not just the staff/leaders.

[Southie]

Creating fun for yourself, your clanmates and people who play around you isn't the same as being a leader. It also isn't all about RPTs. Don't get me wrong, RPTs are fun and good, but everything they provide can be done informally without the rumor posts, GDB advertisements, hype and so on.

Really, what it comes down to is enjoying your character and the people you play with. Engage them, let them engage you. If you're playing with a group of people you click with, then even "simple" things like a trip from Allanak to Luir's can become fun adventures. One of my most memorable RPTs was nothing more than a small group of hunters looking through the mantis valley. It had no staff involvement, no grand objective, and no real impact on anything, but it felt so alive and tense when we slowed down and roleplayed. My character was so convinced a rantarri was on our tail that I started believing it myself.

Find yourself a group of lovers/friends/rivals, and then just dive in. Everybody has the power to bring the game alive, RPTs or not. When you want to do something that goes a bit beyond the bounds of what you can accomplish, email staff. With the proper begging/nudging, I've never really been disappointed in them. Even if you're a low-ranking grunt in a clan, or have no clan, send the staff updates on your character and what you want to do. It gets them interested, and they might actually help you along, or help you look at other directions to go.

It's sad that people are attacking leaders, or attacking minions, or attacking staff, or whatever. In the end, this is a game, and you're responsible for your own fun. So go out and make it. You get out what you put into this, guys. It isn't really a passive game.

One last point about leadership: Leading well is freaking HARD. I get sad for leaders who are trying when I see people attacking them. (I used to get annoyed and frustrated, but I think since I'm not really playing anymore I don't take it as personally.) Leading well takes a huge commitment, lots of OOC headache and responsibility, lots of OOC energy, and, shall I say, a certain virginity to the jaded bitterness that seems to set in after you've been playing for too long. (An example of someone I think has that kind of energy is Taven -- great post up above.) The only good leaders are people who weren't quite as good leaders and learned from their mistakes. Don't attack these people, don't drag them down, and don't tell them they should just quit and step aside. That ultimately isn't helpful. If you think you can do a better job, step in there ICly and take over.

Now I'm gonna go eat me some turkey. Y'all have a good day.

[Taven]

One last point about leadership: Leading well is freaking HARD. I get sad for leaders who are trying when I see people attacking them. (I used to get annoyed and frustrated, but I think since I'm not really playing anymore I don't take it as personally.) Leading well takes a huge commitment, lots of OOC headache and responsibility, lots of OOC energy, and, shall I say, a certain virginity to the jaded bitterness that seems to set in after you've been playing for too long. (An example of someone I think has that kind of energy is Taven -- great post up above.)

You should play more. No, I'm serious. You are fun, interesting, and one of those people that just following around causes things to happen. I love those sorts of people. I sometimes wonder if leaders are too hard on themselves-- Yes, I know you leader people get a TON of negitivity at you from minions, players, etc. However, I've found that lots of times really GOOD leaders (of which I've been lucky enough to have a few) are just interesting for the clan simply by BEING there. I get the idea that some leaders think they're boring the people around them with whatever they're doing, but I've personally found that even if you're not trying, you're usually intertesting.

Also, I may look all perky here on the boards, but it takes awhile for me to actually follow my own advice. Hopefully I'll be more sucessful at actually doing some of this stuff. The biggest barrier I find personally to making RPTs happen are one of the following things:

Getting Used to Routine - You have good ideas, but for whatever reason, now doesn't seem like the time to try them. It's easier to just do what you've been doing, or go for the short-term fix rather then looking at the whole problem or taking a longer view of things.

Clan or Character Insecurities - If you're not comfortable with how the world around you (or even "you," if it's PC trouble) then planning things isn't something you're really able to tackle. To start changing the world, you have to get a feel for what it's like now.

Individual Pursuits - Be this because you're taking too much time for yourself, or because you feel like all your time is ALWAYS duties, and you want some time for just your PC, without worrying about everything else.

[FantasyWriter]

Hey Tavan,

Post #62 Rocks! thanks for the ideas!

[Dalmeth]

Sorry, Gimf.  I haven't had the energy to do much lately.  I'll get on it soon.  I promise. 

[Niamh]

Southie makes some very good points on this topic.

It's sad that people are attacking leaders, or attacking minions, or attacking staff, or whatever. In the end, this is a game, and you're responsible for your own fun. So go out and make it. You get out what you put into this, guys. It isn't really a passive game.

Leading well is freaking HARD. I get sad for leaders who are trying when I see people attacking them. (I used to get annoyed and frustrated, but I think since I'm not really playing anymore I don't take it as personally.)

Leading well takes a huge commitment, lots of OOC headache and responsibility, lots of OOC energy, and, shall I say, a certain virginity to the jaded bitterness that seems to set in after you've been playing for too long. 

Don't attack these people, don't drag them down, and don't tell them they should just quit and step aside. That ultimately isn't helpful. If you think you can do a better job, step in there ICly and take over.

Going back to what Lizzie said, if you feel that everything that's going on is supersecret and excluding all but an elite few, then perhaps it's time to start up your own supersecret plots and bring in your own elite few to work on them, rather than sitting around and grumbling to yourself and on the GDB that no one is doing anything, or no one is including you.  As I said earlier, you don't need to have a PC in a leader type position to do this.  Anyone can do this.

And on that note, anytime you're going to start up plots, email your clan staff about it.  I cannot stress enough how important it is to keep your clan staffers up to date on what your PC is up to.

[Lizzie]

Just to clarify...

I'm not complaining that nothing is going on. I'm not complaining that I'm being excluded from anything. I was commenting -about- that complaint, not making it for myself.

I know I'm excluded from some things, because they frankly have nothing to do with my character. While I the player am dying to find out what's going on here there and the other place, there's nothing driving my -character- to learn that information. And so I remain mostly clueless and glean little tidbits about assorted things from gossipmongers who -do- care about these things in the taverns.

I think some of this "missing" RPT stuff stems from the complete lack of -public knowledge- of ANYTHING going on with the previous world-changing plotlines. And that was my point. The point was, IF there is anything going on with -those- plotlines, then they are so secret and "among the chosen few," that the rest of the playerbase cannot - repeat - CANNOT - conclude that anything -is- going on. And therefore, by default, would conclude that nothing is going on. In regards to THOSE plotlines.

The plotlines that were SO big, SO world-changing, SO significant only a RL year ago, and yet there's zero news about it, no hints, no clues, no implications, no gossip or rumors, that any of these things are still alive and well and ready for someone else to pick up and run with.

Entities that were a HUGE threat to the world...well none of my characters in the past RL year have heard that these entities are dead, or have gone to sleep, or are now allies...but they were SO big - such a HUGE deal - that you could hear whispered murmurs about them in every tavern in every city and outpost from north to south to east to west. Plotlines spun off all of this. TONS of plotlines..all revolved around the existence of this threat. The existence of this threat ceased to be discussed - new players have never even heard of it, and it wasn't even 6 months ago that people were still dealing with it. Some characters were alive when the big deal started, and are still alive. So it's not like there isn't anyone left to continue spreading the word. It's that the threat - for one reason or another, is no longer a threat, and no longer worth mentioning, and no longer worth building dozens of smaller RPTs around.

That's why I think the RPTs are "missing." Because the "big deal" that spawned all those dozens of other RPTs, only a year ago, is no longer a "big deal." Or if it is, it's only the "elite few" who are dealing with it and the rest of us are basically being told to continue on our way, nothing to see here, go make your own little plotlines.

[Janna]

I actually agree with Lizzie. Sure, you can make completely seperate, unassociated RPTs, but in regards to the "BIG" plots that are suppose to be going on, they're utterly stalled from any character I've had recently's perspective.

[Niamh]

Some responses to this thread were deleted, because they were degenerating into bickering about something that should not be bickered about on the GDB.  Any more such derailments and bickering will cause this thread to be locked.

[Gunnerblaster]

I've been playing way too much Final Fantasy XII but we should totally steal their Mark Hunt idea...

Make a random mutated npc like a red-shelled scrab or something that is vicious to tango with and make them lurk in frequented places, like around obsidian/glass deposits. Or a more distinguishable breed of Gortok in the North.

Make them be enough of a problem that people post up bulletins offering rewards for whoever takes down the npc.

Also, don't make the "Mark" Npc's respawn every couple hours but set it to respawn maybe once a week so the boards aren't filled with pleas for hunts, etc.

My ideas are typically crappy and unoriginal, so this is about the best I can do.

: (

[Niamh]

Going back to the initial complaint about world-changing things not going on:

It may seem like the ball has been dropped, but it hasn't.  Things have slowed down some, with new staff coming on and staff rotations, plus a lot of work going into Arm 2 and fixing problems with code in the current incarnation.  Try to think of it as the calm before the storm...or perhaps the eye of the hurricane.

[Lizzie]

I dunno, seems pretty dropped to me. My character before my current one was a member of a clan that is now marked "not okay to use as a background." And she was *temporarily* stored so I could fill the role I'm playing in now.

Even when I was playing her, she was iso - in a clan that -used- to be active in world-changing plotline situations. I'm not sure how the clan not even being open to PCs anymore can be considered "slowed down." That reads "shut down" to me.

[flurry]

I just want to chime in to agree with the idea that running RPTs is a shared responsibility.  Leaders and minions, clanned and independent, everyone can get one started.

Perhaps you could offer some advice on how to think up an idea that will actually attract some interest, because I've had little success at that.

I'm no expert, but here are a few things I've learned.

• Getting things rolling often means finding a way to sell people on the idea.
• Don't give up on it too easily. If people see that you're enthusiastic, they may warm up to the idea.
• Don't get discouraged if things don't happen as planned. One imm gave me a good piece of advice one time: RPTs rarely go as you anticipate they will.

[Hot_Dancer]

RPT's or even basic gatherings do need a lot of help from the playerbase involved.

Personally, if you run even a minor event and no one shows up will you run one again?
Will you devote all that much more time needed to run a larger scene?

Most of the playerbase I've talked to typically make characters with goals to avoid
leadership positions because of the stress and responsibility involved. I'm one of
them for sure. There are heavy periods when things are not very much fun and
there's always a strong chance no one will show up to your RPT.

It takes active and dedicated groups to make RPT's work, not just leaders. PC's with
any excuse to be involved have to go in and participate even if the idea is junk because
maybe,  the next one will not be. You want a next one, don't you? Otherwise, you may
not get it.

Cheers,
HD.