RangerSneak!

[Anonymous]

Okay, so my ranger has branched himself some sneak and hide. (Says that exceptional rangers do it in helpfiles, I'm assuming I'm not blowing any important information here). My hide seems to be working all right, given that's it's a totally new skill...I've had a few successes at least.
My sneak on the other hand...I've tried to sneak up on a few different types of game that normally haul ass when you walk in the room...now, I've tried this MANY MANY times, and had absolutely NO success. I've even taken off my helmet, and armor and attempted, even though I've hidden successfully wearing both. Still nada. I've chased something across the damn scrubs, sneaking room after room behind it..and it still runs every time. I'm wondering...are some things just damn near if not totally impossible to sneak up on? Does sneak have different success requirements than hide? Do I have to be naked and levitating to freakin' sneak or what?

[Hot_Dancer]

You can only sneak up on well-to do player types in their dandy silks and trim waists with little yapping dogs tucked into their sleeves and colorful songbirds on the shoulders of their fine overjackets..

Hot_Dancer

[Delirium]

I don't think this is blowing anything important, since it was discussed in a thread awhile back, if I remember rightly.. if it is, please delete it..

Unfortunately, NPCs have this thing where they're always looking, and since sneak doesn't keep you hidden - just allows you to quietly approach - the way it's coded now, an NPC critter will see you and dash away immediately.

I wish you could sneak up on critters, too.

It is very possible to sneak up on things in the wild. Heck Ive done it.
The thing is this. They will 'look' occassionally. So if you do manage to sneak up on something Id suggest hiding soon, unless your attacking it right away. If you just sneak in, you might only have a few moments before they realize your there and run off into the sunset.

But sneak is also dependant on your weighted down status. People wearing a full set of chitin and obsidian armor with a pair of battle-axes strapped across their back will have a much harder time trying to sneak then someone in sandcloth and light leather wearing maybe a camouflague cloak (which might boost sneak and hide, thats for you to find out.)

Also, I heard weather can affect sneak. Itd be much easier to sneak up someone in a windy storm then in a silent, windless day when every step will make an audiable noise to your prey.

Hope that helps.

[Anonymous]

It is very possible to sneak up on things in the wild. Heck Ive done it.
The thing is this. They will 'look' occassionally. So if you do manage to sneak up on something Id suggest hiding soon, unless your attacking it right away. If you just sneak in, you might only have a few moments before they realize your there and run off into the sunset.

Okay, well I'm talking immediate fleeing, as soon as I enter the room. No second delay, no any kind of delay...I sneak in, they bolt. Just like when you walk in. I've also tried hiding, sneaking in, hiding....but by the time I've gotten to the second hide, they're long gone anyway. I'd be fine if it were the case that you have to jump into a bush immediately upon sneaking into the room, but not even the sneak seems to be working whatsoever for me.

But sneak is also dependant on your weighted down status. People wearing a full set of chitin and obsidian armor with a pair of battle-axes strapped across their back will have a much harder time trying to sneak then someone in sandcloth and light leather wearing maybe a camouflague cloak (which might boost sneak and hide, thats for you to find out.)

Well this is with easily managable encumbrance,  no helmet, no pack or shield on my back, leather sleeves/pants, a desert camouflaged cloak (if it helps), no helmet, and body armor that says that it's often employed by scouts and others for recon (I've also even tried without the body armor).  And on at least 30 attempts, I've not once managed to sneak into a room in the wilds without whatever I'm hunting bolting immediately.

Unfortunately, NPCs have this thing where they're always looking, and since sneak doesn't keep you hidden - just allows you to quietly approach - the way it's coded now, an NPC critter will see you and dash away immediately.

Is this true? If it is, I think that's rediculous. Like a way of penalizing the ranger version of sneak and hide over city versions, since many times assassins, etc are sneaking up on pc's, and at least for my ranger it's ALL been npc's.  I certainly understand looks about the area, even every few seconds...heck they ARE game, they're going to be alert...but have have it IMPOSSIBLE to sneak up on them? Am I just missing something? Doing something wrong? I WANTS ME THAT VESTRIC OVER THERE!  :twisted:

[Delirium]

Heh.  :wink:  Well, for one thing, do pay attention to how appropriate camoflague may be for different environs.

And, I have to say, Jenred, you've been one lucky bastard or you've snuck up on the NPCs that -don't- autoflee, because, like our esteemed Guest here, I have never, ever, managed to sneak up on an auto-flee NPC without it bolting almost before I'm even in the room. And I've had a ranger that was very good at sneaking and hiding, too.

Or maybe I'm just cursed... sigh. I don't know.

[krelin]

Or you both had crappy sneak.    I've snuck up on "auto-flee" critters before.  It's -not- easy, but it is absolutely possible.  And when you can do it, your sneak is pretty f'in good.

[Anonymous]

Or you both had crappy sneak.  I've snuck up on "auto-flee" critters before. It's -not- easy, but it is absolutely possible. And when you can do it, your sneak is pretty f'in good.

This has been recently? Okay, as long as it's possible I'm happy. I wasn't aware that there were different 'levels' of someing hearing you...you sneak into a room with a vestric and a newb PC. Vestric hears you and bolts, but newb doesn't notice a thing? Is that actually how it works? Does listen actually do more than just let you overhear the two elves talking shit about you in allundean at that table in the back of the room? Does listen actually give you a chance to hear someone sneak up when others can't, and vestric have like a 95% listen? Heh.

[creeper386]

Listen DOES help detect sneaking. And I beleive scanning does as well. And I beleive it mentions it in the helpfile.

Creeper

[Khorm]

I have recently (w/i the past month or so) been able to "sneak" up on an auto-flee creature or two. And if my character that lacks a sneak skill, a hide skill, or anything that includes even a smidgen of subtlety can do it, chances are your wilderness savvy ranger will eventually be able to do it too.

Although I really have no idea how it has happened the few times it has, I mostly attributed it to gear that blends into the environment and sheer luck.

[Delirium]

Well, in this case, I guess it's the whole 'practice makes perfect' thing..

Sort of glad to know I'm wrong, and it was just my character's sneak that sucked.. even though I'd have liked to think otherwise.  :wink:

[Khorm]

As far as I know, it could've been a bug in the code that allowed it to happen.. I don't know.

At the time, my character was wearing fairly inconspicuous clothing, wearing colors that more or less matched the terrain he was on, and was mounted on a creature that could've easily blended.

I've heard in the past that ranger sneak isn't worth a damn when it comes to creatures auto-fleeing. More recently, though, I've heard (seen..) talk of rangers being able to manage it pretty well.

So maybe it's a newer addition to the code? Beats me.

[Quirk]

At the time, my character was wearing fairly inconspicuous clothing, wearing colors that more or less matched the terrain he was on, and was mounted on a creature that could've easily blended.

Sneak while mounted? Mmmm. That's not possible as far as I know. Perhaps the creatures you sneaked up on were tired anyway or something?

Quirk

[Twilight]

There is a chance that auto-flee creatures will not move when you move into the room, even when not sneaking.  They will just sit there, no messaging etc.

[X-D]

I've always took an auto-flee not fleeing as it having some lag instead of me:)

But I also think that it is not possible to sneak up on them and in the cases where people think they have it is only been said lag/glitch, having had many wilderness stealthy chars and having tried it over and over and over etc etc etc ad nauseum so on and so forth to no avail except for the random glitch, which happened weather sneaking or not.

[Cenghiz]

I'm sure we may sneak on auto-flee creatures.. I sneaked upon 'rynth rats and jozhals. I know sometimes you just success.

[drunkendwarf]

I'm sure we may sneak on auto-flee creatures.. I sneaked upon 'rynth rats and jozhals. I know sometimes you just success.

Is this as a ranger? I'm aware assassins, other city guilds can do it just fine with auto-flee stuff in town...I'm wondering about vestric, not 'rynth rats.

[Kankman]

Sorry, had to put in.. Its 'rinth not rynth.. Short for Labyrinth. Drop the laby and you got your 'rinth!

[Anonymous]

Okay, here's my next question then...

Does anything think the balance between city sneak and wilderness sneak is a bit...off?
I'm not even talking sneaking up on the auto-flee stuff (which I still haven't managed to do yet)...I'm talking about a SINGLE successful sneak. I don't think I've managed ONE yet....and it's not exactly a newly branched skill anymore..I've had practice.
I've also got a friend who has a ranger, bit farther along with the old skills than I am, and I haven't seen HIM actually pull off a SINGLE successful sneak either...and I even turned off my listen to make sure I just wasn't that badass...heh. But anyways, I've yet to see ANY ranger pull off a sneak....what's going on here?
We're talking easily managable encumbrance, no helm or body armor, all leather everything else, no pack.
This is starting to sound buggy to me.

[Dan]

If you think it is a buggy problem then you should wish up or mail the account. But as to the success of ranger sneak I would have to disagree on it never succeeding. I've played a few rangers who sneaked up on people, it will probably just take you a while to get good enough, mayby your dragging your kank behind? Which gives you away.

[5 day lifespan]

Unbalanced?  Oh dear god no!  I had to work a LONG time on my sneak to get it usable with sneaky city types.  Even after a couple days, I can still be seen entering a room.  It takes a lot of hard work and dedication if you want to use the sneaky parts of your character.  If you think it is imbalanced, then consider how I feel when my sneaky characters would enter a room and every damn ranger in the pub would turn to look at me.  I cant honestly say for sure on the creatures in the wild, but consider this:  Skills get better the more you practice, right?  So you arent the only ranger who has tried hunting that particular animal.  So has every other longshanks worth his sandcloth and leather boots!  So that animal probably has alot of experience getting sneaked up on.  It's just survival of the fittest.  The ones with the highest scan/listen have survived the most hunters, and will continue to do so.  The ones you can sneak up on are likely already dead.
 Now here is a thought...  When the animals get respawned, do they keep the skills at the levels they raised them to while they lived, or is it back to what they were at at the beginning?  If the former is the case, then its no wonder they all see you, theyre probably maxed.  Keep trying, and maybe your sneak will max above their scan.  Theyre animals, they cant be too bright.  Good Luck.

[spawnloser]

Okay, I'm going to have to agree with everyone else here.  There really isn't a problem with ranger sneak/hide as far as I know.  I played a ranger that didn't have a problem.  It may have to do with you simply being unlucky with the learning.

[drunkendwarf]

To drag up an old thread here...

Okay, are you people *sure* there's nothing wrong with ranger sneak? I've now had this skill for *many* days playing time, practicing it a decent amount, and I've still not managed to sneak up on ANY npc beastie type. Nada. Nuthin. Not once. With a 20+ day ranger. Now I realize that wild animals should certainly be hard to catch off guard, but this is approaching rediculous. As my pc really has no need/desire to go around sneaking up on people in the wilds, it's made this skill virtually useless to me. All I want to do is sneak up on that fucking vestric!!!

And again, I've tried the whole hide/sneak into the next room, hide scenario, to no avail. Even approaching from two or even three rooms away in that fashion. Also nearly naked on several attempts.

*clings to the hope that one day he may actually kill something without his bow*

[gfair]

First of all, I can see from your response that you are going to have to learn the most important lesson in Arm - patience.  Another lesson - don't use foul language when you're angry, it makes you look silly and diminishes from any worthwhile point you're making.


As for why it isn't working, there's only one solution - keep working at it.  Though I have to wonder why in the world you are so frustrated over sneak while trying to use a bow.  You do realize that a Bow is a ranged weapon, do you?  You don't need to do any sneaking with the bow, except perhaps to read over the documents on archery again.

http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?skill_archery

[drunkendwarf]

First of all, I can see from your response that you are going to have to learn the most important lesson in Arm - patience.

I'd say about 5 days playing time while heavily practicing the skill before reposting anything is patience.

Another lesson - don't use foul language when you're angry, it makes you look silly and diminishes from any worthwhile point you're making.

Actually, I think it just shows my frustration...and I've seen plenty of other cursing on this GDB.

Though I have to wonder why in the world you are so frustrated over sneak while trying to use a bow. You do realize that a Bow is a ranged weapon, do you? You don't need to do any sneaking with the bow, except perhaps to read over the documents on archery again.

Ummm...yes, I'm aware that a bow is a ranged weapon. That's my point...the only way I can kill auto-flee mobs right now IS with my ranged weapon....

Another lesson - don't use foul language when you're angry, it makes you look silly and diminishes from any worthwhile point you're making.

I got his point pretty well, and he said fuck once, not a big deal, it wasn't every other word.

And as far as patience, he did note that he had the skill for a long time, and did practice it, so it's not that. The issue is that creatures auto 'look' every few seconds, which makes sneaking up on them pointless, since they see you with the auto 'look' before your movement lag wears off, so you can't even hope to hide in that time, or even try to attack. So sneaking up on a creature ideally should still be unlikely, but at least succesful sometimes, I mean, in real life, my friend's father is a bow hunter, gets within three or four feet of the deer (He's... an interesting hunter), which with the right weapon is close enough to attack it at least once.

[X-D]

I've posted here before, but I will say again, I had a ranger (near 40 days) who after having sneak and using it very often for 20+ days was never able to sneak up on an autoflee, Oh, had two times where the creature took a few seconds to flee but both those times was when the skill was new to him so I think it had nothing to do with the skill. I gave up useing it with later rangers unless it involved a pc, works fine with pc's but unless you are some kind of raider, yup, wilderness sneak basicly useless.

IRL when hunting, or not, I find it pretty easy to sneak up on animals as long as you know what your doing, I'm one of those 'interesting' hunters, I like to walk, I hate stands/blinds, I'd love to hunt deer with a dagger or a spear but it is illegal in every area I've checked...sigh.

[spawnloser]

One thing I'll note, people often chase auto-flees to friends when hunting.  Dude A moves into room with SoonToBeDeadVestric...STBDV flees.  If it flees towards Dude B & C, Dude A pulls out ranged weapon while B & C beat up STBDV.  Now, if that STBDV auto-looks, why doesn't it auto-flee from Dudes B & C?

I think because the auto-look script only looks for differences between the current look, and the previous look, and when they enter that room, that 'look' is set as look naught, so any differences from that first look is what sets them to run.

[drunkendwarf]

Okay, well if it's really impossible to sneak up on auto-flee creatures in the wilds...does anyone else think that's kind of lame? Is it supposed to be this way, or just one of those things that's on the list of things to fix? I mean, I'm not asking to be able to sneak up on anything and everything I see, but ONE success every now and again would be nice, even if it's rare...which I tent to agree with the above posters, it shouldn't be THAT hard to come within bow range of some skiddish game, I know I've done it  countless times in the woods with deer, antelope, etc.

[spawnloser]

I think you're missing the point...you can shoot a bow at something from a different room.  You don't have to be in the same room as the creature like melee combat.

[Delirium]

I think you're missing the point.. they want to be able to sneak up on it and take it down in melee combat instead of using their bow. ;)

[jhunter]

Yeah, autoflee creatures simulate some more realism, but I agree with some of the others that it takes away from the biggest benefit of there being a ranger version of sneak and hide that they cannot get past this.

If anyone should be able to get past this it should be an experienced ranger.

I would've thought that they could but from what I've seen they cannot...noone can.

[X-D]

The funny thing is, it would be so VERY easy to fix.

If the autoflee script works like a motion detector and takes 'snapshots' say once per second and flees on a change to the 'picture' then simply change to a triggered script, set the trigger to one of the directions as a keyword, because that is always given in an entrance or exit message.

east west north south up down

Then when matched the script does flee self,
then extend the script to run an extra 3 rooms random just to make it fun.

Now, it is possible that it already works that way but the mud does not stop entrance and exit messages to npc/mobs when someone is succesful in a sneak. In which case it would be some probly minor code work to fix.

[spawnloser]

Sorry if I sounded crass, Delerium.  I do understand that, but drunkendwarf said that he has problems getting into bow range.

[drunkendwarf]

Erm, yeah I, for some reason, was thinking bow range within in the same room....I'm aware you can shoot from at least one room away, and depending on the bow possibly more...just suffering from some lack of sleep when I posted that last message. Anyways, does anyone else agree it's rather lame that you apparently *can't* sneak up auto-flee creatures? Really, shouldn't that be the main point of the ranger version of sneak? Make it extremely difficult to do, I don't care....just make it possible! Please!! Heh.

Yes, yes, yes.

[Angela Christine]

Really, shouldn't that be the main point of the ranger version of sneak?

No, I think the main point of wilderness sneak is so you can play  Assassin of the Wastes or Robin Hood with other PCs.  Rinthers can't sneak up on the auto-flee rats either.

AC

[drunkendwarf]

No, I think the main point of wilderness sneak is so you can play Assassin of the Wastes or Robin Hood with other PCs.

Well all right....as long as I get to be Robin Hood!

[Angela Christine]

Well all right....as long as I get to be Robin Hood!

Hmm, I suppose.  But a drunken dwarf would really be better suited as Friar Tuck, or even Little Jhon if a half-giant isn't available.  Not only is a dwarf going to look funny in tights, but it would make your relationship with Maid Marrian really complex.

AC