Thoughts on temperature.

[morrigan]

So, I asked about temperature in ask the staff, this is the reply I got from Nyr.

Why, I'm glad you asked!  Weather varies depending on where you are, of course, but so does temperature.

Within Allanak (streets):
Temperature appears to float around 100 degrees F.*

Outside of Allanak in the nearby deserts (in general):
Upwards of 100 degrees F.*  Super hot.

Near Red Storm:
Upwards of 100 degrees F.*  Super hot.

In Tuluk (streets):
Temperature floats around just below 100 degrees F.*

Northlands (in general):
Temperature floats around just below 100 degrees F.*

*Temperature values are going to be vague at best, but this is close to the median temperature, which more accurately reflects what you will see most often.
In general, you can expect it to be a trifle cooler in the Northlands.



So...wow...I thought Zalanthas was hot? I've been playing like it was 130+ degrees here. It's regularly 100+ here in Texas, and we have something Zalanthas does not...humidity. Any of you ever been in a desert or other non-humid area?

100 degrees F, feels like about 80 does here in Texas in those areas...
I feel...disillusioned and silly.

In fact, when I was in the army, I was in Fort Benning, Georgia doing my basic training, in the summer. It was low to high 90's at all times and swampy humid. For any of you who've worn BDUs, you know, they don't breathe well when tucked in and buttoned, even the "summer" BDUs. So, all of us were constantly running, working out, working, drilling, marching, running, running some more...and for the most part, aside from a few people with a bit less fortitude, we were fine.

Any thoughts?

[NoteworthyFellow]

To me, I rather like it less... absurdly hot.  For one thing, it makes the wearing of full leather armor or full bone/shell seem far less silly to me.  Leather does not breathe well.  Wear all leather and go traipse around all day in a desert and tell me how you end up feeling.  Then, imagine if it was thirty degrees hotter.  Now, wear all black leather and repeat the experiment.

I think we have to take into account the effects of direct and intense sunlight from Suk-Krath, too.

These temperatures make pretty good sense to me.

[morrigan]

All that is true..but I wasn't asking if it worked better. Just commenting on the fact that the documentation had me all worked up about the heat, which apparently I overestimated.

[Cutthroat]

Considering these temperatures are around the average as Nyr said, I would guess those are the temperatures for when the 'weather' command returns 'it is a warm day' or 'it is a hot day'. That makes sense to me. That message can get crazy-hot depending on various factors, and I'd say 130+ are reserved for those hotter messages in particular. Things will probably feel worse if you're standing over a fire, have a burning torch in your hand, etc...

Just a guess, and my two cents.

[Lizzie]

I play it as though my character is a -native of the planet- and therefore adapted just fine for the temperature.

You can't compare Zalanthas to a Terran desert. Zalanthas isn't Terra. Terra is mostly water. Zalanthas is mostly not. The sentient beings that dwell on the planet of Zalanthas are adapted to the planet's geology and ecology. They aren't adapted to Terran geology and ecology. Terrans are adapted to Terran ecology and geology, and not to Zalanthan geology and ecology. What works here on Earth, won't work there. What works there, won't work here.

If it was the equivalent of 180 degrees on Zalanthas, I would assume there was something in the anatomical/physiological and genetic structure of my humanoid character, that would have allowed her to live from birth until her current age. So it really doesn't matter what the earthly farenheit numerical value the temperature has on Zalanthas, because Zalanthas isn't earth, and its inhabitants aren't earthlings.

[brytta.leofa]

Allanak == Phoenix?

[NoteworthyFellow]

All that is true..but I wasn't asking if it worked better. Just commenting on the fact that the documentation had me all worked up about the heat, which apparently I overestimated.

I suppose that's true.  Also, some quick research has shown me that the Sahara desert, on our own Earth, can reach upwards of 130 degrees Fahrenheit.

I'm rather conflicted on this, then.  On one hand, Earth can reach temperatures apparently hotter than Zalanthas.  On the other hand, wearing black leather armor and while participating in heavy physical activity in the Sahara during the summer would be damn near suicidal.

Considering these temperatures are around the average as Nyr said, I would guess those are the temperatures for when the 'weather' command returns 'it is a warm day' or 'it is a hot day'. That makes sense to me. That message can get crazy-hot depending on various factors, and I'd say 130+ are reserved for those hotter messages in particular. Things will probably feel worse if you're standing over a fire, have a burning torch in your hand, etc...

Just a guess, and my two cents.

I'm going to take Nyr's estimates as the usual for a "warm day," with a "cool day" being slightly lower and a "hot day" being slightly higher.  I'm not sure if there's a "very hot day" possibility, but that would be significantly hotter.  I seem to remember seeing one, but my memory is, of course, fallible.

[morrigan]

I play it as though my character is a -native of the planet- and therefore adapted just fine for the temperature.

You can't compare Zalanthas to a Terran desert. Zalanthas isn't Terra. Terra is mostly water. Zalanthas is mostly not. The sentient beings that dwell on the planet of Zalanthas are adapted to the planet's geology and ecology. They aren't adapted to Terran geology and ecology. Terrans are adapted to Terran ecology and geology, and not to Zalanthan geology and ecology. What works here on Earth, won't work there. What works there, won't work here.

If it was the equivalent of 180 degrees on Zalanthas, I would assume there was something in the anatomical/physiological and genetic structure of my humanoid character, that would have allowed her to live from birth until her current age. So it really doesn't matter what the earthly farenheit numerical value the temperature has on Zalanthas, because Zalanthas isn't earth, and its inhabitants aren't earthlings.

Well, if that's the case...then we should never RP it as being overly hot. When we get the weather message, "It's a very hot day", our character would just fan themselves with whatever is handy and say, "Garsh...how bout this weather?"?

[NoteworthyFellow]

I play it as though my character is a -native of the planet- and therefore adapted just fine for the temperature.

You can't compare Zalanthas to a Terran desert. Zalanthas isn't Terra. Terra is mostly water. Zalanthas is mostly not. The sentient beings that dwell on the planet of Zalanthas are adapted to the planet's geology and ecology. They aren't adapted to Terran geology and ecology. Terrans are adapted to Terran ecology and geology, and not to Zalanthan geology and ecology. What works here on Earth, won't work there. What works there, won't work here.

If it was the equivalent of 180 degrees on Zalanthas, I would assume there was something in the anatomical/physiological and genetic structure of my humanoid character, that would have allowed her to live from birth until her current age. So it really doesn't matter what the earthly farenheit numerical value the temperature has on Zalanthas, because Zalanthas isn't earth, and its inhabitants aren't earthlings.

Well, if that's the case...then we should never RP it as being overly hot. When we get the weather message, "It's a very hot day", our character would just fan themselves with whatever is handy and say, "Garsh...how bout this weather?"?

I tend to roleplay as follows:

• "Cool days" are a nice relief, pleasantly cool in comparison to the usual hot temperatures.  I treat them like I would in real life treat weather in the mid-70s (warm, but not unpleasant).
• "Warm days" are about average, with the potential to become uncomfortable if you are engaging in heavy physical activity for a long time out in the sun.
• "Hot days" are hotter than usual, much more potential for discomfort and the potential for danger with too much physical exertion and too little water.
• "Very hot days" are just ridiculously hot, even by Zalanthan standards, and most characters would tire far more quickly than usual and perhaps opt to wait for dusk--or a cooler day--to do much physical labor, if given a choice.

[RogueGunslinger]

Allanak == Phoenix?

Are you kidding me? Easily up to 110 on the average summer day in phoenix.

[Dalmeth]

If it was the equivalent of 180 degrees on Zalanthas, I would assume there was something in the anatomical/physiological and genetic structure of my humanoid character, that would have allowed her to live from birth until her current age. So it really doesn't matter what the earthly farenheit numerical value the temperature has on Zalanthas, because Zalanthas isn't earth, and its inhabitants aren't earthlings.

We should remember that one of the major themes of Zalanthas is a world in decay.  The current conditions have only been in place for a few thousand years, not enough time to go through major physiological changes.  In addition, only three hours of the eleven hours of the day are considered dark, with only one being full darkness (the others being dusk and dawn).

Life is harsh in Zalanthas, even if it hovers around 100 degrees.  You just don't get much respite from the heat like you do in a world with more equal day-night cycles.

[brytta.leofa]

Are you kidding me? Easily up to 110 on the average summer day in phoenix.

But it's a dry heat.

[morrigan]

Yeah, as for adapting to your environment in general. It really doesn't happen much. I've lived in Texas for 27 years, and I still hate the weather. People aren't weather resistant at all, the Inuit wear heavy clothing to keep warm, they haven't magickally or scientifically changed in such a way as to gain +10 frost resistance. :p

Obviously, someone who goes outside more, and works for a living in the heat, becomes a bit more used to doing so, and capable of surviving it a bit better than say, me who now spends all their time inside on a computer, but that doesn't mean they're now partially immune to heat or anything. So, in short, I don't buy the whole adaptation thing, unless it's over millions of years.

People may argue that it's a fantasy world and anything is possible but as a fantasy writer, and feel free to consult others as well, I'm firmly aware that even fantasy has to be believable.

So, the conclusion is, the weather sucks. It's hot, it's deadly. I just thought it was hotter and more deadly.

[RogueGunslinger]

Are you kidding me? Easily up to 110 on the average summer day in phoenix.

But it's a dry heat.

When it gets that hot, it doesn't matter whether it's dry or not. Not if you're outside it doesn't.


I worked construction for three years in Phoenix. Man am I glad I just moved.

[Mood]

How hot is it when weather returns "infernally(I think that's the adjective, at least) hot"?

[NoteworthyFellow]

How hot is it when weather returns "infernally(I think that's the adjective, at least) hot"?

I have never seen that one.

[Cutthroat]

How hot is it when weather returns "infernally(I think that's the adjective, at least) hot"?

I figured that to be in the 130-140 (Fahrenheit) range, but I don't know for sure. It would be nice to see a list of the common weather outputs and temperatures corresponding to them if someone is willing to write it up.

[Tisiphone]

Interesting, considering that there's no albedo to the Known World excepting sandstorms, and the sand is red, mostly.

What about at night-time? After all, there are NO clouds.

[Zoan]

There's the ever-present atmospheric dust that renders the sky red. They're essentially clouds. It's also encompassing enough to trap heat.

[Dalmeth]

There's the ever-present atmospheric dust that renders the sky red. They're essentially clouds. It's also encompassing enough to trap heat.

It's also encompassing enough to block light from from reaching the surface.

[Belenos]

Are you kidding me? Easily up to 110 on the average summer day in phoenix.

But it's a dry heat.

Yep, dry like a blowtorch.  Last year there were 29 days over 110.  The highest temperature ever was 122 in 1990

[Yam]

There's the ever-present atmospheric dust that renders the sky red. They're essentially clouds. It's also encompassing enough to trap heat.

Isn't Suk-Krath a dying red giant?

[Dalmeth]

Isn't Suk-Krath a dying red giant?

If  Zalanthas is a planet orbiting a star, you have a big problem with the static day-night cycle over the course of the seasons.

[Yam]

Isn't Suk-Krath a dying red giant?

If Zalanthas is a planet orbiting a star, you have a big problem with the static day-night cycle over the course of the seasons.

You have a bigger problem with people who shoot fireballs.

[fourTwenty]

Other side of Zalanthas is completely froze.
Ice everywhere. Completely polar.

Don't you people ever explore?

[Qzzrbl]

That Silt Sea is a bitch to cross, yo.

[Forest Junkie]

I've seen it get infernally hot in the canyons I believe. Definitely not a place to be in with little water. 

I can attest to humidity making things far worse though. I was in Denver in 100+ degree weather one summer and everyone (who lived in Denver) was complaining. Hell, to us, it felt like 80. The heat index in during the dog days of summer in Louisiana is just freaking killer. I hate humidity.

[Qzzrbl]

You get used to the humidity in Louisiana eventually.

Especially after a hurricane knocks the power out and the air is just SATURATED along with 100+ temperatures.