Rinthi Apartments, the hight of living.

[Echo]

I dont know if its just me, but I think the 'rinth should have apartments too. Everywhere else does I dont see why a small gang doesn't set up shop on the ground floor of a usable building and rent out the upper floors.

Folk might be poor, but not everyone lives in the gutters, there could even be somewhat large units for the Rinthi crime boss.

[Bogre]

There are a lot of places in the 'rinth to stash your stuff.

I'm not sure anybody would have the organization/inclination or power to keep an apartment complex going.

[Gimfalisette]

It amazes me how many smart people who play this game who dont know how to spell and never like to capitalize. 

You missed an apostrophe and your grammar is poor.

This is better said in PM, and I wasn't going to do it at all.

I was tempted to fix it, though.

The point is, none of us is here to be the grammar police, or the spelling police, or the capitalization police. It's just not necessary to bring up.

[Archbaron]

Anyways, back to the thread.

I don't really like this idea. I don't feel like there should be any sort of obvious security like this. I think it would just be an easy spot to be hit up by burglars and not really serve their purpose. Try finding a niche or something to hide stuff in, surely there are some.

[Ammut]

Anyways, back to the thread.

I don't really like this idea. I don't feel like there should be any sort of obvious security like this. I think it would just be an easy spot to be hit up by burglars and not really serve their purpose. Try finding a niche or something to hide stuff in, surely there are some.

I like this idea.  It would be realistic, because no one I know sleeps in alleyways.  As it is, there are a places
I haven't had the balls to enter because they just seem.. hostile.

I think 'rinthi apartments wouldn't cost much at all, maybe fifty 'sid a month.  Something everyone can afford,
but looks like shit.  The lock wouldn't be tough enough to stop many newbie burglars, but then again, who
would keep much in those apartments anyway? I'd use them more as a hideout than anything else.

I've also noticed neat-o containers that are in the room but aren't objects, so maybe some of those would
be able to throw off the newbie burglars.  Maybe a floorboard that someone could open (or pry loose) to
reveal a spot below the floor.

[Qzzrbl]

The 'Rinth is the VERY bottom rung of society. It's inhabitants eat rats and are mostly on the verge of starvation. They have children who would kill for a scrap of food, and if their victims don't have food, I doubt they'd be above cannibalization. It is a dirty, vile place where alot of bad, desperate, and insane people live.

You may not know anyone who sleeps in alleyways, but you've never been in a place even remotely similar to 'Rinth. I might add that homeless people sleep in alleys all the time....

I'm against this idea.

[Lord of Charas]

@Qzzrbl

I wish this could be. I wish the PC's and the vNPC's could naturally blend in together. Then maybe I could go and sleep in an alleyway w/ out much fear.

To get a sense for what I'm saying?: Raise a hand if you've staked out your own little trash heap you regularily go to, in the 'rinth, to sleep. On a regular basis.

Anybody ?

Maybe the solution is not more apartments. But some other form of alternatives. Has anyone played CS ? There are cardboard boxes you can hide out in and nap without chance of being ever found. Then there are also coffin apartments (that cost nothing either) that can be 'entered', a lot like them. These are all like special quitsafe rooms that only one person can fit into.

I think this sort of thing would make more sense, given the environment. I think it would be a nice way of blending in with the vNPC population whilst resting in the dark alleys. Mixing in comfort and vulnerability at once.

Thoughts ?

[Zoltan]

I'm against this idea, too. If you look around, there are places in the 'Rinth you could use for temporary hideouts/sleeping areas. It's not safe, no, but that's what makes the 'Rinth the 'Rinth for me.

[Lord of Charas]

No. Clearly the only forms of safety or security to be found in a place like the 'Rinth are numbers and anonymity. Once you go into the sewers or wherever to hide out and sleep, those two things are lost.

In the 'Rinth, if there were a proper blending between PC and vNPC populations, resting/sleeping in the alleys out in plain sight would be the option, clearly because everyone would be doing it. Their only shelters are abandoned buildings. Only those with their anonymity severely broken by fame/infamy would need a hide-out (ie: gang!).

No alley bum or vagrant is gonna get stabbed in their sleep unless they're marked or have something of value. You shouldn't have to find a super-sekrit den or hide out to sleep in if you're just some crusty gutter-bum without a gang. However, this is not how the game works.

So this is why I feel a unique apartment system inside the 'Rinth would prove a fine compromise, given the realities.

[Qzzrbl]

'Rinth is not supposed to be "safe" or "secure", or "comfortable" for that matter.

If you can't handle it, stay out of the alleys.

[Synthesis]

The 'Rinth is the VERY bottom rung of society. It's inhabitants eat rats and are mostly on the verge of starvation. They have children who would kill for a scrap of food, and if their victims don't have food, I doubt they'd be above cannibalization. It is a dirty, vile place where alot of bad, desperate, and insane people live.

You may not know anyone who sleeps in alleyways, but you've never been in a place even remotely similar to 'Rinth. I might add that homeless people sleep in alleys all the time....

I'm against this idea.

I would hesitate before characterizing the 'rinth this way.  While it's true that the 'rinth as a whole is lower class, there are castes within the 'rinth, and once you get above the very lowest, they entirely cease to resemble the picture you've drawn above.  In fact, I would wager that the vast majority of PCs are members of these higher rungs of 'rinth society, and as such would be in the kind of place to take advantage of a cheap hideout.

There are many reasons one would choose/be resigned to live in an area with no law enforcement presence, and the vast majority of these reasons have zilch to do with being poor.

[Qzzrbl]

The 'Rinth is the VERY bottom rung of society. It's inhabitants eat rats and are mostly on the verge of starvation. They have children who would kill for a scrap of food, and if their victims don't have food, I doubt they'd be above cannibalization. It is a dirty, vile place where alot of bad, desperate, and insane people live.

You may not know anyone who sleeps in alleyways, but you've never been in a place even remotely similar to 'Rinth. I might add that homeless people sleep in alleys all the time....

I'm against this idea.

I would hesitate before characterizing the 'rinth this way.  While it's true that the 'rinth as a whole is lower class, there are castes within the 'rinth, and once you get above the very lowest, they entirely cease to resemble the picture you've drawn above.  In fact, I would wager that the vast majority of PCs are members of these higher rungs of 'rinth society, and as such would be in the kind of place to take advantage of a cheap hideout.

There are many reasons one would choose/be resigned to live in an area with no law enforcement presence, and the vast majority of these reasons have zilch to do with being poor.

True enough, true enough, but I was characterizing the NPC and VNPC population of the place. Always gotta take your virtual world into account when you suggest things like this. ^^

[Qzzrbl]

To get a sense for what I'm saying?: Raise a hand if you've staked out your own little trash heap you regularily go to, in the 'rinth, to sleep. On a regular basis.

Erm, and I've claimed an abandoned building for one of my characters in the past, and knifed anyone who dared step in. It worked pretty well.

[Lord of Charas]

'Rinth is not supposed to be "safe" or "secure", or "comfortable" for that matter.

If you can't handle it, stay out of the alleys.

We're all well aware of the nature of the labyrinth; I've already explained my views on this. We already know how gritty or harsh the 'rinth is supposed to be. You don't have to keep hammering this idea into our brains again and again; we get it already.

Anyway, you don't need to worry. I'm fine with the way things are, and I don't expect change. This issue surrounding 'Rinth appartments has been brought up countless many times and in many ways. I think bringing it up again was really a waste of time.

Cheers.

[Mood]

The 'Rinth is the VERY bottom rung of society. It's inhabitants eat rats and are mostly on the verge of starvation. They have children who would kill for a scrap of food, and if their victims don't have food, I doubt they'd be above cannibalization. It is a dirty, vile place where alot of bad, desperate, and insane people live.

You may not know anyone who sleeps in alleyways, but you've never been in a place even remotely similar to 'Rinth. I might add that homeless people sleep in alleys all the time....

I'm against this idea.

Most 'rinthi are dirt poor, sure. Most. Not all.

[Niamh]

I removed replies that contained flames and/or unrelated responses.

Please stay on topic, folks.

[Delstro]

The 'Rinth is the VERY bottom rung of society. It's inhabitants eat rats and are mostly on the verge of starvation. They have children who would kill for a scrap of food, and if their victims don't have food, I doubt they'd be above cannibalization. It is a dirty, vile place where alot of bad, desperate, and insane people live.

You may not know anyone who sleeps in alleyways, but you've never been in a place even remotely similar to 'Rinth. I might add that homeless people sleep in alleys all the time....

I'm against this idea.

It may be the bottum rung of civilization right now. However, the Labrinth was orginally built to be a new Merchant's Quarter. If it was designed as a new merchant's quarter, it would have been an improvement over the old one, which looks like it is lacking in shops/housing/warehouses. It is almost a quarter of Allanak's entire size. In true Allanak spriit, they built it to serve a need, not be pretty. That is why they have small streets, maximizing space for buildings. I wouldn't expect to find large open warehouses, I'd expect to see a lot of small apartments, much like a prison cell, or a studio apartment.

From: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/allanak.html
Geography

The Labyrinth is a crumbling network of alleys in the northern end of the city, originally a new merchant district, but has since been abandoned and turned into a haven for the city's thieves and smugglers.

[Qzzrbl]

Right, but what would be the point of trying to open one of these old apartment buildings to rent out rooms, if your 'Rinther could just find another building just like it a little ways down the street for free? Also, you'd have gangs hustling you for a cut of the profit, and the owner of a working apartment building would probably wind up dead because some cutthroat wanted his shoes.

Besides, all of the buildings have fallen in horrible disrepair. The buildings are crumbling, trash fills the alleys, one could probably kick a hole through most any building in 'Rinth if he wanted to badly enough.

[Delstro]

If I were a thug leader. I'd open an apartment, run it with my gang, give all the people Piece of Mind when they rent my apartment. While on the other hand, when the owner is away, it's time to go through their room, looking for valuable shit. It's better I do it than some random burglar, right?

[Winterless]

Slum-lords... I could see it.

The 'Jects... I could see those too.

[Qzzrbl]

If I were a thug leader. I'd open an apartment, run it with my gang, give all the people Piece of Mind when they rent my apartment. While on the other hand, when the owner is away, it's time to go through their room, looking for valuable shit. It's better I do it than some random burglar, right?

Again, the 'Rinth is designed so that there is no room for piece of mind. And I know for a fact that any attempts of an apartment complex that opens up in 'Rinth will be flocked with burglars to practice their skills, so it would be pointless to pay 50 'sid a month for all of your stuff to be burg bait.

If you want to be safe. If you want to be secure. If you want "piece of mind".... Then don't create a character there.

We're all well aware of the nature of the labyrinth; I've already explained my views on this. We already know how gritty or harsh the 'rinth is supposed to be. You don't have to keep hammering this idea into our brains again and again; we get it already.

Erm, and apparently there are still some people here that just don't get it.

[My 2 sids]

I'm not sure about apartments... but maybe protection?

I could see how a gang might stake out a building or something then offer protection to anyone willing to pay a price.  For your money they guard you and your crap as you sleep.  It could have beds and maybe even a locked locker or something. 

Have a few beefy NPCs acting as guards, a PC gets some kind of adornment (much like PCs get when they join a house... to be able to get into the barricks). 

[Delstro]

If I were a thug leader. I'd open an apartment, run it with my gang, give all the people Piece of Mind when they rent my apartment. While on the other hand, when the owner is away, it's time to go through their room, looking for valuable shit. It's better I do it than some random burglar, right?

Again, the 'Rinth is designed so that there is no room for piece of mind. And I know for a fact that any attempts of an apartment complex that opens up in 'Rinth will be flocked with burglars to practice their skills, so it would be pointless to pay 50 'sid a month for all of your stuff to be burg bait.

If you want to be safe. If you want to be secure. If you want "piece of mind".... Then don't create a character there.

Every human being wants Piece of Mind. It doesn't mean they are Safe, but you don't have to be safe to have Piece of Mind. If a gang is protecting an apartment, for the gang's survival, they couldn't have pick-pocket and burglars breaking into random apartments. That shit in those apartments belong to that gang. This isn't the Southside, if you fuck up in my gang's turf, we are going to teach you not to do that again -and- take shit from you. A burglar in the southside is protected by laws. You don't have that luxury in the 'Rinth. This shit is my shit, if you want it, you'd better be able to take it, or have someone else take.

[Qzzrbl]

Every human being wants Piece of Mind. It doesn't mean they are Safe, but you don't have to be safe to have Piece of Mind. If a gang is protecting an apartment, for the gang's survival, they couldn't have pick-pocket and burglars breaking into random apartments. That shit in those apartments belong to that gang. This isn't the Southside, if you fuck up in my gang's turf, we are going to teach you not to do that again -and- take shit from you. A burglar in the southside is protected by laws. You don't have that luxury in the 'Rinth. This shit is my shit, if you want it, you'd better be able to take it, or have someone else take.

Yes, yes they would have burglars breaking in to that apartment, gang protected or not. I promise you, every burglar in 'Rinth will try out his first lockpick in that apartment. If the guards are so good that a burglar can't sneak his way in, then he'll just rent one himself and wreak havoc on every other room.

And do you want an apartment? Or a gang hideaway? Because there are already things you can do IG to get use of a gang hideaway in 'Rinth. Complete with locks and guards.

:Edit: And you're right, there aren't any laws up in 'Rinth. So what if the burglar trying to gank your shit is in a bigger and badder gang than you're in?

[Delstro]

Well.

What better way to ensure people don't change sides than controlling their pay, where they sleep, or what they eat in a place with no laws?


The Guild.

That is all I have to say.

[Qzzrbl]

Well.

What better way to ensure people don't change sides than controlling their pay, where they sleep, or what they eat in a place with no laws?


The Guild.

That is all I have to say.

You wanna know why The Guild hasn't tried starting apartment complexes in 'Rinth already? Because they probably already know it's a waste of time/effort. They'll spend more money on guards and locks than what they'll make off the place.

[Tisiphone]

Hey, guys, seriously, take it IG.

[Qzzrbl]

I don't think we've overstepped any IC boundaries yet...

But I'm just saying, it's simple business.

If you charge too much for the rooms in 'Rinth, nobody will use them. If you don't charge enough, you won't be able to hire the muscle to keep the sneakies out.

[Delstro]

I think they havn't done it because there has not been a need for it to be done by the playerbase.

This is how I would do it.
Clean out an apartment complex. Give a few guys a free apartment each. Now, those guys aren't only defending random apartments, they are defending -their own- apartments. IF you charge 75 a month per room and you have a small complex of 12 free apartments (not including the ones for the guards). You are making 900 'sid a month profit. Now, for every one clown that goes missing, you now make 900 sid + whatever their stuff sells for, a month.


Now, you can afford to pay the guards 75 'sid, so now, they have a free apartment and 75 'sid a month.

I think it would be a good deal.

[Forest Junkie]

Being able to rent out a one room shack/hovel would be awesome.

Thank you.

[Qzzrbl]

Meh, next thing you know, people will be pushing for a bank and a 'Rinthi crim code. 

But what do I know? Such things would be just awesome, even though they could be found in just about every other city in the Known World.

[Tisiphone]

I don't think we've overstepped any IC boundaries yet...

No, you haven't, but that wasn't my point. My point was:

If you want apartments in the 'rinth, make some.

If you don't want apartments in the 'rinth, be happy.

[Mood]

I think shit-hole, gang-run tenements are a good idea, personally.

[Delstro]

Meh, next thing you know, people will be pushing for a bank and a 'Rinthi crim code. 

But what do I know? Such things would be just awesome, even though they could be found in just about every other city in the Known World.

Well. If we have to draw a line, it should be after apartments and before a bank.

[Forest Junkie]

Meh, next thing you know, people will be pushing for a bank and a 'Rinthi crim code. 

But what do I know? Such things would be just awesome, even though they could be found in just about every other city in the Known World.

You're right, apartments can be found in every major city-state/outpost. Mundanes have multiple places to choose from. 'rinthi's, however, do not. They reside in the alleys. I doubt all of them live in a pile of refuse. A few might be able to afford a hovel, correct? What's wrong with having coded wooden shantys with brothels inside, eh? The locks could be the weakest in design, so as to discourage people from throwing all the loot they steal/fence.

And no, I don't think this is asking for too much. Just because a few people would like to see tiny coded hovels in the 'rinth doesn't meann they want rediculous other things that you suggest in your rather sarcastic rant. Hell, the 'rinth has a code of law in its own right.

[Echo]

Whatever, in the future I will just rent out a home outside the 'rinth, since you know, only poor crazies really LIVE in the rinth, and thats only because they cant afford a home southside, I'll commute. No wakkan worries mate. Just dont blast me for poor role play because I want to play a normal person who lives in the 'rinth, and owns a bed.

I was under the impression the "apartment" code was the way it was to provide access to housing without direct admin support or needing to wait for a PC Agent who rents them - I remember years ago when I use to play how much of a pain in the ass it was to get a home for your PC, Hell I remember one incident when a PC agent went around to every rented out home in the city and LOOTED the houses.  All im asking is if it could be adapted for a 'rinth based living arrangement. I can go to any poor city in the world and either 1 - build myself a shanty or rent one, or the unthinkable - buy one.

There are real places that are much more dangrous and poorer then the 'rinth.

And I can rent there too, If I really wanted too.

Not everyone lives on the street. And if buildings exist in the 'rinth, then npcs are living in them, and if npcs are living in them, why cant PC's and if the apartment code is the way to allow this to happen, then im willing to over look certain smudges in the submersion of the game so I can sit there with my 'Rinther and think to myself "I might not have a job, my pants may be torn and a spice-twitch is developing in my eye. But at least in this arse end of the city I've at least got a roof over my head and a bed to call my own.

[ale six]

I would love to see the entire Labyrinth get redone with the idea that destitute poor people actually have communities there, instead of the pretty bland, boring area it is now.

[Delstro]

I don't think it has to be "redone." Just added to. Filled out. I love the 'rinth right now. I'd love it even more if there was more 'rinthy style.

[Mood]

I would love to see the entire Labyrinth get redone with the idea that destitute poor people actually have communities there, instead of the pretty bland, boring area it is now.

I agree.