Social Rank of Indie Merchants

[jcljules]

Will an indie trader/crafter -always- be considered 'less' than a house agent or trader? Or is it based on wealth and power?

[Qzzrbl]

I would say almost always less either way. Because it's almost impossible for an indie merchant to become more powerful and rich than a merchant house.

[touringCompl3t3]

Yeah, this is an area where you're going to struggle, brother.  I've had problems gaining cred as an indie merchant.  Even at times when I've had more disposable income and more influence than my clanned counterparts. 

There are a number of reasons for this, some of them not entirely logical.

Ironically, even an indie warrior might get more props than you do, for the simple reason that they're a big guy with a sword. 

Let me know if you find a way past all this -- it's something that I struggled with for a while.

[jcljules]

Alright... I'll keep fighting then 

Edit: I think one way might be to start -acting- rich and powerful in the first place... parties, giving people tasks to do for sids, etc; Someone on another thread told me to be a successful indie merchant I had to be a 'quest giver.' Best advice I've gotten so far

[Archbaron]

Alright... I'll keep fighting then 

Edit: I think one way might be to start -acting- rich and powerful in the first place... parties, giving people tasks to do for sids, etc; Someone on another thread told me to be a successful indie merchant I had to be a 'quest giver.' Best advice I've gotten so far

Yes, you must act like you have money before people will treat you like you have money. My current character isn't terribly rich, but he acts completely pompous and most people respect him as a wealthy man because of it. And yes, that "quest-giver" advice is vital. As someone with money and someone who can make money easily on a whim, you should put your position of power to use and give lesser folk a chance at grandeur and adventure. Maybe you're interested in some norther fauna? Find some rangers, give them mounts and water, and send them off on an expedition. Be creative.

[Gimfalisette]

Will an indie trader/crafter -always- be considered 'less' than a house agent or trader? Or is it based on wealth and power?

Taking Tuluk as an example, because its rank table is more detailed: http://www.armageddon.org/rp/tuluk_castes.html

You will see there on the Tuluki rank table that "Independent Commoner" is lower in rank than almost everyone else. Now, there are things which can modify this status a little bit: For example, an indie commoner who is the partisan of a well-regarded noble patron will be higher in status than an indie commoner without equivalent patronage.

Another possibility to "rank up" for an indie merchant would be to become an accomplished or master artisan who is sought after for mastercrafted goods by a circle of wealthy, powerful people.

But otherwise, an indie merchant is just yet another of the common masses; assuming they have Tuluki citizenship, that makes them better than a non-citizen. But that's pretty much it.

I recommend not getting above yourself and thinking you have more power or influence than you really do; that often doesn't turn out well.

[jcljules]

Interesting what the table said about foreigners... but wouldn't a foreigner be more likely to just ignore the societal structure entirely? (within reason of course--you'd want to survive)

[Gimfalisette]

Interesting what the table said about foreigners... but wouldn't a foreigner be more likely to just ignore the societal structure entirely? (within reason of course--you'd want to survive)

I'm not really sure what you mean. Anyone -can- ignore the social structure if they want to. The problem is, that often ends up having negative consequences, from social ridicule to unofficial shunning to death. Ignoring the social structure is going to set you up for getting the exact opposite of what you seem to want, which is social recognition/power/influence.

[Gimfalisette]

Adding: I know social ranking and politics stuff can be confusing. The most important point to know is that if you are inside the social structure and playing by the rules, you will much more easily and quickly come to have influence, power, and money. If you try to break the rules or stay outside the structure, your efforts will suffer.

The "rules" I'm talking about are things like: Who to befriend, who to have in your debt, who to be indebted to, how to be truly useful and valued, bribery, doing business in general, competing against established players or organizations, finding a niche rather than competing, what you can get away with and what you can't, information gathering and management, etc etc etc.

[jcljules]

What I mean is that while a poor foreigner is probably the lowest of the low, a rich foreigner is kind of 'outside of' the entire social structure. Its the same way in the real world--there's a lot of xenophobia and racism against poorer foreigners in a lot of countries, but people are more than willing to deal with rich foreigners because it is profitable.

Who's going to turn away quite a few 'sids so they can eat for a day to do a simple mission for a foreign merchant, regardless of their 'social rank'

[Gimfalisette]

Who's going to turn away quite a few 'sids so they can eat for a day to do a simple mission for a foreign merchant, regardless of their 'social rank'

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't go ahead and send people on questy-type things for you. You SHOULD do that, if you can. It's good for the game and fun for all.

I'm just saying it's not the same as having the kind of power and influence that someone who's an insider will have.

[jcljules]

Yeah, I understand. My character would never really have power and influence over the -city- in which he lived, but in a general sense he would be a powerful individual.

Not that he's close to either at the moment, but I'm working on it 

[Salt Merchant]

Coin is influence. If you have the coin, you can bribe templars to have your way. You can pay assassins. You can surround yourself with hirelings. And so forth.

[jcljules]

Exactly my point--if I have tons of coin, it doesn't matter where I am on the little chart thingy--except for the fact that I'm below the templarate and the nobles.

[Gimfalisette]

My character would never really have power and influence over the -city- in which he lived, but in a general sense he would be a powerful individual.

I'm not sure what definition you're using of "powerful individual." In my definition, he would not be. I'm just gonna go to the dictionary to illustrate, rather than doing it in my own words; power means, "Ability to do or act, possession of control or command over others, legal capacity or authority." Socially speaking, your character (assuming we're talking about an indie foreign merchant in either city) will not have any of those things.

Exactly my point--if I have tons of coin, it doesn't matter where I am on the little chart thingy--except for the fact that I'm below the templarate and the nobles.

Coin can be influence, yes, but it's not the only factor nor the most important. Even in ARM, money can't buy you everything. If you go by your statement above, you are likely in for some nasty surprises.

[jcljules]

Coin is influence. If you have the coin, you can bribe templars to have your way. You can pay assassins. You can surround yourself with hirelings. And so forth.

I'm going to have to agree with him

[Tisiphone]

Coin is influence. If you have the coin, you can bribe templars to have your way. You can pay assassins. You can surround yourself with hirelings. And so forth.

I'm going to have to agree with him

That's because you're too new to know better.

[Gimfalisette]

Coin is influence. If you have the coin, you can bribe templars to have your way. You can pay assassins. You can surround yourself with hirelings. And so forth.

I'm going to have to agree with him

Well then, I suggest you boldly test your proposition and find out. Maybe he's right, and maybe coin is the very most important thing of all.

[jcljules]

Haha alright I will 

The main thing I misunderstand is the fact that if my character, an indie merchant, pulls in like 4 times the sids of an entry level house merchant, and I also have more connections and customers, why is he my social better? I just find it hard to believe that my rich foreign indie merchant, who wears fine linens (not silks, mind you) and owns a great apartment, can hire assassins to deal with his competition and even has a few 'employees'...

How is that house merchant my character's social better?

And by the way, the situation I'm describing isn't exactly where my character -is- right now, but its just a goal.

[Tisiphone]

Because the House has more power than you ever will, and can be held accountable, and automatically gives him more and better social contacts than you will ever have, save by establishing another House.

[Mood]

Because the entry level house merchant has the support of a Great Merchant House behind him/her, and you have pretty much zero chance of ever being richer or more influential than an entire house.

[Gimfalisette]

The main thing I misunderstand is the fact that if my character, an indie merchant, pulls in like 4 times the sids of an entry level house merchant, and I also have more connections and customers, why is he my social better? I just find it hard to believe that my rich foreign indie merchant, who wears fine linens (not silks, mind you) and owns a great apartment, can hire assassins to deal with his competition and even has a few 'employees'...

How is that house merchant my character's social better?

Assuming we're talking about a GMH family member, it's because they're part of one of the richest families in the world, upon which a large portion of the economy rests. This analogy kind of sucks, but try it: How come Paris Hilton can get into any nightclub she wants in the world, and you can't? Even if you started your own company worth a few million dollars, why would it still be this way? First and foremost, it's because her family is stinking rich and very influential, whereas you're just some self-made Joe Schmoe.

As an indie, it's impossible for you to rival the extreme quantity of wealth and the influence the GMHs have. You're measuring yourself one-on-one against a single family member, while you should be measuring yourself against the whole of Kadius, Salarr, etc.

And yeah...what Tis and Mood said.

[Mood]

Even the Hilton family couldn't compete with the amount of influence the GMHs hold, IMO.

[Tisiphone]

Even the Hilton family couldn't compete with the amount of influence the GMHs hold, IMO.

More like why only the Winchesters get to handle the Crown Jewels.

[jcljules]

Assuming we're talking about a GMH family member...

I said a GMH entry level employee, not a family member--of course an Indie could never be better than a family member or agent.